Getting Started Again

**Marat** · 04-14-2009, 11:34 PM

I've been active with sports and training. However, my diet has generally been poor. There will be periods of time where I drop my calories too low and end up crashing, unintentionally quitting, and gaining the weight back. I've lost 20,30 and 60 pounds before I'd gain it back. This is a result of not actually establishing a proper diet. I've been looking to clean up my diet once and for all.

I've been planning a cut and using fitday.com for the last few days. However, my average calories have been coming out very low--about 1000day(37g of fat, 26g of carbs, 179g of protein) . I feel like I was getting back to my old weight loss habits, and I certainly know this isn't the proper way to cut. Therefore, I'm looking for a little guidance to make sure that the plan I am setting out is a good idea.

Also, the fun irony of this all is that I'm a Nutrition student. I have a mildly strong understanding of the physiology of bulking, maintaining and cutting. Nonetheless, I do a pretty poor job of applying it.

Anyway,

I'm a 20yr old male. 285lbs and 24.1% BF. Based on what I've read off of Built's blog/webpage and this page : OSP Blog » Getting Started With Your Diet (I believe this is P-Funk's page?) I've established these figures:

285 lbs x (1-.241) = 216lbs of LBM

Going off the optimum performance website---285lbs x 10 = 2850kcal/day (i went with the low end of multiplying weight by 10-12)
I understand that I probably should trial and error until I actually establish what is my true maintenance figure, however, I'm guessing that at my current weight, being exactly precise is not worth the few weeks that it would take to determine maintenance. If this logic is flawed, I suppose I'm fine with figuring it out the long way.

Moving on...

216 lbs LBM x 1 = 216grams/protein/day
x 0.5 = 108grams/fat/day

216(4) + 9(108) = 1836 calories
2850-1836 = 1014calories from carbs/day
1014/4 = 253grams/carbs/day

So in summary,
216P
253C
108F
Those macros would be my maintenance.

To cut, I'd keep the fat and protein, and remove 500kcals from my carbs..putting the figure at 514cals or 128g.

This makes the cut macros: 216P
128C
108F

In addition, I drink plenty of water (1+gals) and the calorie sources are all clean.

I also train 3-4 days a week. I've been training for 3 years now with some solid results. I don't do regular cardio anymore. I do play racquetball or full court basketball a couple times a week and I walk 18 holes of golf at least once a week. Besides that, no regular cardio.

I'm expecting my training routine to be questioned, but for sake of wordiness, I'll leave it for when its asked for.

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

**Marat** · 04-15-2009, 06:49 PM

maybe the evening crowd has some ideas?

**Ngordyn** · 04-15-2009, 08:15 PM

well i would not go down to around 2300 calories at that weight , id say try the 2800 calorie area for a few weeks. weigh in every monday at the same time preferably right after your morning piss, before u eat or drink anything if your dropping 1-2 pounds daily then your dead on

ok next your macros , i would up protein to 300g a day

and drop your carbs to about 170g a day this way you will feel less hungry , the reason to up the protein is because the 1g/lbm is a rule of thumb for the general population , assuming you will be training you can go to 1.2 or more if you like , also carbs are not satiating at all so u will be starving

your fat is fine just try and get some of it from fish oils be great for your joints

and yes seeing your training routine would be great help

**Marat** · 04-15-2009, 08:31 PM

I understand that sometimes going too low on calories would be counterproductive. Would lowering my carbs to like 40 or 50 a day and then refeeding every week or so be a more effective way of cutting? I feel like I would be very satiated at even a lower calorie mark....like the 2300cals [300g protein + 100g fat + 50g carbs = 2300cals).

So would this be a situation in which going too low in calories would be counterproductive towards my goal? At least for now, satiety hasn't been an issue.

**Ngordyn** · 04-15-2009, 08:34 PM

and do a carb refeed on the weekends or something ?

in this case you will need to work out your calories for a week so when u refeed you dont drop to much weight to fast , but it will work

My personal opinion on this is that you NEED to know your maintenance before this type of program otherwise you have no idea where to base your weekly calories around

**Marat** · 04-15-2009, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ngordyn

in this case you will need to work out your calories for a week so when u refeed you dont drop to much weight to fast , but it will work

Would you mind elaborating on this a little? I don't entirely understand in what fashion I would need to manipulate my calories during the week.

**Ngordyn** · 04-15-2009, 08:43 PM

ok well say in order to lose 2 pounds a week you eat 2500 calories a day X7 = 17,500 calories a week

ok so 5 days a week you eat 2200 a day
then the other two you "refeed" and eat 3250 a day

2200 X5 = 11,000
3250 X2 = 6,500

total is 17, 500

calories at the end of the week are the same just some people find it easier to control their lifestyle this way

**Marat** · 04-15-2009, 08:45 PM

Alright that certainly makes sense.

However, regardless of the day, I still maintain 300g of protein and 100g of fat? I just regulate the carb intake?

**Marat** · 04-15-2009, 08:54 PM

Also, I'm in accordance with Ngordyn's advice. Yet, I am always happy to hear 2nd and 3rd opinions.

**Ngordyn** · 04-15-2009, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by m11

Alright that certainly makes sense.

However, regardless of the day, I still maintain 300g of protein and 100g of fat? I just regulate the carb intake?

exactly

**Marat** · 04-15-2009, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ngordyn

ok well say in order to lose 2 pounds a week you eat 2500 calories a day X7 = 17,500 calories a week

ok so 5 days a week you eat 2200 a day
then the other two you "refeed" and eat 3250 a day

Hey, I've been trying to work out the math on why its an average of 2500/day (17500/week). I know somewhere you're creating a total deficit of 7000calories to account for the 2 pounds, but I don't see how its working out.

**Marat** · 04-16-2009, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Ngordyn

then the other two you "refeed" and eat 3250 a day

Another question: On those two refeed days, after reading all the posts in the Refeeds and Leptin sticky, it looks like you want to keep the fat intake low, while keeping the carbs high. However, you've recommended that i maintain my 300g protein and 100g fat on the refeed days. Should I be eating 100g of fat on refeed days?

Also, shouldnt I be manipulating the calories so that I should refeed for 1 day, as opposed to 2?

Any input from anyone would be great.

**Built** · 04-16-2009, 12:51 AM

At 24% bodyfat, you don't need refeeds. Not yet.

I'd just keep it simple as you first suggested. Even if your calories are too low, your hunger will tell you that part pretty quick, and you're "juicy" enough to not risk lean mass by cutting hard initially.

Feel free to fiddle around with the protein and fat. Another option is to go high and low carb days - that way you can eat higher calories the days you train.

Read "Carb cycling made easy" here: Got Built? » Open Source Fitness - Get started here

Read ahead about the leptin etc, but get 20 pounds off first would be my .02

**Ngordyn** · 04-19-2009, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Built

At 24% bodyfat, you don't need refeeds. Not yet.

I'd just keep it simple as you first suggested. Even if your calories are too low, your hunger will tell you that part pretty quick, and you're "juicy" enough to not risk lean mass by cutting hard initially.

Feel free to fiddle around with the protein and fat. Another option is to go high and low carb days - that way you can eat higher calories the days you train.

Read "Carb cycling made easy" here: Got Built? » Open Source Fitness - Get started here

Read ahead about the leptin etc, but get 20 pounds off first would be my .02

i agree 100% with built but i probably have a different reason

refeeds takes more time and more number crunching to work out which makes your dieting more stressful and seeing that you have tried to cut before only to lose motivation this method will only make it easier for that to happen again

**Built** · 04-19-2009, 01:20 PM

That's not insignificant - why overcomplicate things if you don't need to? The best diet is the one you can stick to.

Good luck.

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