Thread: "She has sacrificed her look as a woman." Lenda Murray quote re Iris Kyle

Honestly I don't know who Murray is, but it seems like jealousy. Iris is not competing in figure or bikini, she's going for Ms. O! Thats the top of the food chain if you ask me for women dedicated to the sport. Life styles cannot be compared between them, and one will do all she/he can to achieve their dreams.

I hope me not knowing who this Murray lady is doesn't make a complete ass out of my comment

Lenda was the Iris of the 90s. If you covered their faces I think you'd be hard pressed to pick one as "more feminine" than the others. I love both their looks. Women's BB is loaded w/ disparaging comments on "femininity" - its all relative. There are people who think Jamie Eason is too jacked. Lots of people frankly. But then no one seems to bother commenting about the 30% of fat people in the US, many of the women looking more androgenous than any FBBs. Also noting that anyone who is dieted down enough is going to look "jacked". That look is often mistaken for "roided out" by the ignorant. There are people who just wear it better than others.

I've don't think I've ever met Lenda --- trying to remember as I've been attending the Arnold &/or the Olympia for most years since 2000. I've meet Vicky Gates and Laura Creavelle and know a number of the current / recently crowned pros. Many amazing women. I've met Iris a number of times and I just think she is the image of perfection. Her genetics are like those of a Triple Crown race horse. Personally I think her aesthetic beats out the best looking guys on the circuit (and I"m not talking about mass - I'm talking about the sheer aesthetic of a muscled physique). There are some women who do look harsh w/ dry as fuck skin and massively receding hairlines. Iris isn't one of them.

I dunno what it gains in dumping on the current pros. Women's BB is constantly under fire for people's perception of what is "feminine" - we've seen that definition be skewed by what is actually rewarded over the years in FBB & Figure. Bikini has its own issues viable and useful judging criteria so I'm not going to lump that in - but I also expect the same inconsistency and trends to affect the new Women's Physique category.

It is what it is. This is a "sport" that is debatable even as a "sport" and judged by subjective & political-driven standards. It is what it is. I think the quality of it is driven by the quality of the individuals - there are shitty people and stellar people in the sport. I take it for what its worth and look to myself for the challenge and the accomplishment, and thank God I have a day job

Originally Posted by Ezskanken

Honestly I don't know who Murray is, but it seems like jealousy. Iris is not competing in figure or bikini, she's going for Ms. O! Thats the top of the food chain if you ask me for women dedicated to the sport. Life styles cannot be compared between them, and one will do all she/he can to achieve their dreams.

I hope me not knowing who this Murray lady is doesn't make a complete ass out of my comment

it does

no more than any fat ass cow sitting on the couch eating cheetoes. it's her life and she looks female to me. it's not what i'd want to look like but it's better and hotter than lard ass or anorexic stick woman. i see a genuine smile on her face that crinkles up her eyes like a happy little girl. leave her be.

Lenda's jealous. Iris is purdy.

Originally Posted by Ezskanken

Honestly I don't know who Murray is, but it seems like jealousy. Iris is not competing in figure or bikini, she's going for Ms. O! Thats the top of the food chain if you ask me for women dedicated to the sport. Life styles cannot be compared between them, and one will do all she/he can to achieve their dreams.

I hope me not knowing who this Murray lady is doesn't make a complete ass out of my comment

Thanks for participating in the thread. Your post doesn't make a complete *** of you or your comment, however it does beg the question, "How old are you?"

Lenda Murray is an eight-time Ms. Olympia. Her -- what I'd call disparaging and disrespectful -- comment re Iris Kyle seemed completely bewildering considering the fact that Murray has a physique that nearly matches Iris' own.

With the exception of calves (Iris crushes Lenda here) and conditioning (I'd argue), Murray's comments, if considered fact, apply to herself as well.

Lenda Murray's Competitive Record

1989
Junior Nationals - NPC, HeavyWeight, 1st
Junior Nationals - NPC, Overall Winner
North American Championships - IFBB, HeavyWeight, 1st
North American Championships - IFBB, Overall Winner

1990
Olympia - IFBB, Winner

1991
Olympia - IFBB, Winner

1992
Olympia - IFBB, Winner

1993
Olympia - IFBB, Winner

1994
Olympia - IFBB, Winner

1995
Olympia - IFBB, Winner

1996
Olympia - IFBB, 2nd

1997
Olympia - IFBB, 2nd

2002
Olympia - IFBB, HeavyWeight, 1st
Olympia - IFBB, Overall Winner

2003
Olympia - IFBB, Overall Winner
Olympia - IFBB, HeavyWeight, 1st

2004
Olympia - IFBB, HeavyWeight, 2nd


Lenda Murray

Originally Posted by sassy69

Lenda was the Iris of the 90s. If you covered their faces I think you'd be hard pressed to pick one as "more feminine" than the others. I love both their looks. Women's BB is loaded w/ disparaging comments on "femininity" - its all relative. There are people who think Jamie Eason is too jacked. Lots of people frankly. But then no one seems to bother commenting about the 30% of fat people in the US, many of the women looking more androgenous than any FBBs. Also noting that anyone who is dieted down enough is going to look "jacked". That look is often mistaken for "roided out" by the ignorant. There are people who just wear it better than others.

I've don't think I've ever met Lenda --- trying to remember as I've been attending the Arnold &/or the Olympia for most years since 2000. (snip)

Met Lenda at one of the early Arnold Classics. Asked for a snapshot and she melted into my side while a fellow fan snapped the photo for me. lol If I ever felt like a "schmoe," it was at that moment with Ms. O glued to me for those seconds.

Was especially disappointed after reading that article and Lenda's quote regarding Iris.

It's about respect and a person's choice to build their physique in the manner they so choose. If you're a competitor and are trying to model or mold your physique to please a judging panel, well, that must be the saddest circumstance in the world.

Would you drive a car around that someone else chose the color, the rims, the make or model? So why would you choose anything but your own ideal for something as personal as your body?

i assumed wrongly that the person being ridiculed was on the left because the woman on the right appears more feminine. is the woman to the left the one ridiculing her?

you would think they would applaud and support each other not cat fight.

Originally Posted by Little Wing

Me-Ow.

Originally Posted by Little Wing

i assumed wrongly that the person being ridiculed was on the left because the woman on the right appears more feminine. is the woman to the left the one ridiculing her?

Originally Posted by Little Wing

you would think they would applaud and support each other not cat fight.

Believe there is a very real cat fight component in their relationship. Iris is the heir apparent and—unless the federation eliminates FBB entirely—should, by all rights, eclipse Lenda's reign as winningest Ms. Olympia.

Lenda:


Iris:

ok so her face is more feminine but that can be said of two beached whales or anorexics. the bodies look just about identical as far as i can see. i suck at multi tasking. thanks for the clarification curt and yes the crinkly eyed lady on the left looks HAPPY.

and someone needs to tell Lenda that poor sportsWOmanship is ugly no matter how pretty your face is. so there

^^^^ Agreed. Not sure what Lenda's motivation was, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's politics as well as spite involved.

She looks hot in some of those pics

Curt I'm 28. Honestly I don't know much or nothing at all about the female side of BBing...I do however appreciate what it takes to get to where they are when it's show time, when it is time to reveal all of their blood, sweat, and tears, and wearing that smile that couldn't be any more prouder at that moment in time. But I do think women who look like that are attractive!

KOS, you make me laugh, take it ez...

Originally Posted by sassy69

Lenda was the Iris of the 90s. If you covered their faces I think you'd be hard pressed to pick one as "more feminine" than the others. I love both their looks. Women's BB is loaded w/ disparaging comments on "femininity" - its all relative. There are people who think Jamie Eason is too jacked. Lots of people frankly. But then no one seems to bother commenting about the 30% of fat people in the US, many of the women looking more androgenous than any FBBs. Also noting that anyone who is dieted down enough is going to look "jacked". That look is often mistaken for "roided out" by the ignorant. There are people who just wear it better than others.

I've don't think I've ever met Lenda --- trying to remember as I've been attending the Arnold &/or the Olympia for most years since 2000. I've meet Vicky Gates and Laura Creavelle and know a number of the current / recently crowned pros. Many amazing women. I've met Iris a number of times and I just think she is the image of perfection. Her genetics are like those of a Triple Crown race horse. Personally I think her aesthetic beats out the best looking guys on the circuit (and I"m not talking about mass - I'm talking about the sheer aesthetic of a muscled physique). There are some women who do look harsh w/ dry as fuck skin and massively receding hairlines. Iris isn't one of them.

I dunno what it gains in dumping on the current pros. Women's BB is constantly under fire for people's perception of what is "feminine" - we've seen that definition be skewed by what is actually rewarded over the years in FBB & Figure. Bikini has its own issues viable and useful judging criteria so I'm not going to lump that in - but I also expect the same inconsistency and trends to affect the new Women's Physique category.

It is what it is. This is a "sport" that is debatable even as a "sport" and judged by subjective & political-driven standards. It is what it is. I think the quality of it is driven by the quality of the individuals - there are shitty people and stellar people in the sport. I take it for what its worth and look to myself for the challenge and the accomplishment, and thank God I have a day job

I'll help you out Sassy:
I LOVE my wife lean, and stage ready! Would never sleep with a 30%BF woman.
My wife gets comments all the time by women as to why she is so gross. Yet they failed to look in the mirror prior to approaching her.

They are the issue that gets neglected, not women's femininity, or how sexy Sassy or my wife are.

When you're lean, your face looks like that. My own experience - I've been training in the same gym at the same time of day for the last 4 yrs. For the most part I have a group of friends (mostly guys) who I hang out w/ but don't directly train with. I generally don't get any comments when I'm off-season, but when I get to within 4 weeks of my competition date, let me tell you about the attention I get. Weirdly, particularly from guys in their 20s. I'm 46. I also get a lot of questions from the girls who I don't normally talk to, who all say "I want to look like you, just not as big."

Another example of perception - I was out at a club w/ some friends (who don't compete) in Vegas on Olympia weekend last year - 1 week out from my own competition. Sure, being out all night didn't really help me in terms of how bloated & tired I looked the next day, but it was one of those MUST DO nights. But anyway, we were out at this club and I got ALOT of attention from the guys at the club, but MUCH MORE from the women. Every time I got off the dancefloor I had more of them stop me and start asking diet & training question than you would believe.

The thing is that the look is DIFFERENT. Because the mainstream is pretty much uninformed and FAT is the norm, they all assume it must be roids because they all have no idea how to get their bodyfat below 25 % cuz they can't fathom the idea of giving up liquor and snacks and stick to regular training & cardio, and view their goals in terms of I MUST LOSE 20 lb BY NEXT WEEK! In other words, its not a lifestyle for them, so its completely foreign. Therefore it must be ok to make comments about. Its not polite to make comments about chubby people, but the minute you're in shape, you're judged against the measuring stick of "the hottest model you ever saw in a magazine". Which is fine, except the goals are completely different. BB is a visual sport, so it is judged subjectively and on criteria that is completely different for different people in terms of what they find attractive, even "attractive" is not really the criteria of judging. Aesthetic, yes, "attractive", or more specifically "fuckable" is really what drives people's perception of women.

The difference between Iris & Lenda, personally I think is more in their natural facial features. I kinda view Lenda as more of a model face while Iris is more of an athlete face. The context is sort of like Hope Solo, the US Women's Olympic Soccer team goalie who has been competing on Dancing w/ the Stars. She looks wonderfully athletic, and then they dress her up like a dancer. She hits as not a model but rather an athlete dressed up - she still looks great but not w/ the same 'ease' of looking great as someone like Nicole Sherzinger.

Outside of that, again, if you cover up their faces, IMO they look about on par w/ Iris' physique probably being the more 'perfect' across the board.

Originally Posted by sassy69

When you're lean, your face looks like that. My own experience - I've been training in the same gym at the same time of day for the last 4 yrs. For the most part I have a group of friends (mostly guys) who I hang out w/ but don't directly train with. I generally don't get any comments when I'm off-season, but when I get to within 4 weeks of my competition date, let me tell you about the attention I get. Weirdly, particularly from guys in their 20s. I'm 46. I also get a lot of questions from the girls who I don't normally talk to, who all say "I want to look like you, just not as big."

Another example of perception - I was out at a club w/ some friends (who don't compete) in Vegas on Olympia weekend last year - 1 week out from my own competition. Sure, being out all night didn't really help me in terms of how bloated & tired I looked the next day, but it was one of those MUST DO nights. But anyway, we were out at this club and I got ALOT of attention from the guys at the club, but MUCH MORE from the women. Every time I got off the dancefloor I had more of them stop me and start asking diet & training question than you would believe.

The thing is that the look is DIFFERENT. Because the mainstream is pretty much uninformed and FAT is the norm, they all assume it must be roids because they all have no idea how to get their bodyfat below 25 % cuz they can't fathom the idea of giving up liquor and snacks and stick to regular training & cardio, and view their goals in terms of I MUST LOSE 20 lb BY NEXT WEEK! In other words, its not a lifestyle for them, so its completely foreign. Therefore it must be ok to make comments about. Its not polite to make comments about chubby people, but the minute you're in shape, you're judged against the measuring stick of "the hottest model you ever saw in a magazine". Which is fine, except the goals are completely different. BB is a visual sport, so it is judged subjectively and on criteria that is completely different for different people in terms of what they find attractive, even "attractive" is not really the criteria of judging. Aesthetic, yes, "attractive", or more specifically "fuckable" is really what drives people's perception of women.

The difference between Iris & Lenda, personally I think is more in their natural facial features. I kinda view Lenda as more of a model face while Iris is more of an athlete face. The context is sort of like Hope Solo, the US Women's Olympic Soccer team goalie who has been competing on Dancing w/ the Stars. She looks wonderfully athletic, and then they dress her up like a dancer. She hits as not a model but rather an athlete dressed up - she still looks great but not w/ the same 'ease' of looking great as someone like Nicole Sherzinger.

Outside of that, again, if you cover up their faces, IMO they look about on par w/ Iris' physique probably being the more 'perfect' across the board.

I agree about the similarity of their respective physiques, with Iris being the newest big thing and probably surpassing Lynda just a bit as far as her overall development. Personally, I think both women are exceptional athletes and very beautiful women in their own way, and each had their own era. I guess my hope would be to see Lynda support Iris and the development of the sport, and the fact that it is her time now. Kinda sad to see the snippy comments about someone who so obviously has spent years in pursuit of similar goals and aspirations you have devoted your life to pursuing. Both women are great champions, and will go down in history as two of the greatest female bodybuilders who ever lived.

Im not sure Lynda has the right to say anyone has sacrificed her look as a woman, maybe her gym doesnt have the floor to ceiling mirrors mine does. That being said, I dont think being muscular sacrifices femininity (look at Sassy!), I just think if you're going to be petty and small, you better not be a hypocrite.

This is nonsense. Bring back the Anja Langer look.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

This is nonsense. Bring back the Anja Langer look.

I think that's the plan.... just not in BB. Look for Physique at the Pro level to promote that look.

lenda is and was sexy....kyle not so much

props for the hard work

Originally Posted by sassy69

I think that's the plan.... just not in BB. Look for Physique at the Pro level to promote that look.

I love that look. IMO, it can save the feminine side of bbing. I feel that it has gone in an insane direction that is just plain ass ugly.