Thread: Do supplements make us healthier? The science says no!

true, but would temper that with burgeoning studies that vitamin d supplementation may be quite beneficial,( although mostly through metaanalysis) and in the infant population of the poor and lower middle class, supplementation may save lives ( especially vit A)

Vitamin D Lowers Risk Of Cancer Heart Disease And Diabetes Death

Vitamin A supplements for infants could save thousands of lives a year

For the most part, it points to healthy eating as the best form of lifestyle modification ( with the exception of vitamin d where you have to drink 22 glasses of milk to get the vitamin d you can get from being in the sun a couple of hours.)

Agreed, I am unaware of any reputable health organization that takes the position that we can't get all of our nutrients from food sources, w the exception of vit D.
But, I do see a lot of quack organizations take that stance, as well as those that stand to profit from the sale of supplements.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

Agreed, I am unaware of any reputable health organization that takes the position that we can't get all of our nutrients from food sources, w the exception of vit D.
But, I do see a lot of quack organizations take that stance, as well as those that stand to profit from the sale of supplements.

exactly, the ones who promote supplements most heavily have vested interest in hawking their wares.

Did this study take into account BMI, Cholesterol etc.? I think if you compare a healthy person who doesn't take supplements to an unhealthy one that does, then the basis of the whole study is useless. I'm just sayin I see fat people in vitamin shoppe all the time, and regardless of what they take their life expectancy is less than someone with a healthier lifestyle.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

Agreed, I am unaware of any reputable health organization that takes the position that we can't get all of our nutrients from food sources, w the exception of vit D.
But, I do see a lot of quack organizations take that stance, as well as those that stand to profit from the sale of supplements.

Are you saying the Linus Pauling Institute is not "reputable"?

Originally Posted by TonyMack

Did this study take into account BMI, Cholesterol etc.? I think if you compare a healthy person who doesn't take supplements to an unhealthy one that does, then the basis of the whole study is useless. I'm just sayin I see fat people in vitamin shoppe all the time, and regardless of what they take their life expectancy is less than someone with a healthier lifestyle.

It's well established in the literature that nutrients from food sources are far superior than supplements. And, supplementing nutrients doesn't make up for a poor diet.

Originally Posted by TonyMack

Are you saying the Linus Pauling Institute is not "reputable"?

Never heard of him.

Originally Posted by TonyMack

Are you saying the Linus Pauling Institute is not "reputable"?

Does he take the stance that we can't get all of our nutrients from food sources?

If so, then he is ignoring mountains of evidence and I would consider it a quack organization, and would bet money that they make money off of uninformed consumers.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

Never heard of him.

linus pauling was a famous chemist,nobel prize winner but not sure if his expertise in quantum chemistry translates to nutritional research. he was the guy who promoted taking high doses of vitamin c and promoted it for treating cancer. unfortunately, humans are not subject to rigourous control condtions like chemistry and mayo clilnic disproved his "observational" study of few indidividual that supposedly benefitted from high dose vitamin c in terms of their cancerl, mayo clinic found no benefit. but it's not to say vitamin c doesn't have benefits

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

linus pauling was a famous chemist,nobel prize winner but not sure if his expertise in quantum chemistry translate to nutritional research via his institute.

You're full of good info!

only about chemistry, that was my previous life

I just did a search for "buy Linus Pauling supplements.". Not surprisingly, he sells a ton of supplements.

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

only about chemistry, that was my previous life

Umm, and medicine and theology!

Tony, if you want to see some good research done on nutrition and health, especially how they relate to heart disease, you should look up dr ornish. He was one of the first docs to actually reverse CAD.

Although, this is probably the wrong site to advertise this, since he promotes a mostly whole food, plant-based diet. Nevertheless, he has contributed a lot to the field of cardiac rehab. Which is my area.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

Tony, if you want to see some good research done on nutrition and health, especially how they relate to heart disease, you should look up dr ornish. He was one of the first docs to actually reverse CAD.

Although, this is probably the wrong site to advertise this, since he promotes a mostly whole food, plant-based diet. Nevertheless, he has contributed a lot to the field of cardiac rehab. Which is my area.

yes he had spectacular results, but holy cow, the diet is very strict. people have forgotten his results but i work with a non interventional cardiologist who advocates ornish diet , pritikin and routine fasting. i belileve the pritikin also showed reversal of heart disease.

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

yes he had spectacular results, but holy cow, the diet is very strict. people have forgotten his results but i work with a non interventional cardiologist who advocates ornish diet , pritikin and routine fasting. i belileve the pritikin also showed reversal of heart disease.

It is extremely difficult! I once dropped my total cholesterol from 233-165 in 3 months on his diet though. And my triglycerides dropped from 430-145.

Esselstein is another doc who has documented reversal as well. My thought is that even if someone isn't willing to make changes that drastic, there is still benefit to increasing plant food intake and limiting animal foods.

The Linus Pauling Institute is a part of Oregon State University (which Linus Pauling was a professor before his passing at age 93), they have an online library with recommended daily allowances for nutrients.

I suppose, theoretically, if someone had a very balanced diet and consistent sufficient calories, then on paper they would be, balanced. You could even get all the Vit D you needed naturally. And you would never need take a pill, or inject anything, EVER. In fact, Hippocrates once said, "let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food".

I'm not going to stop taking a Multi, B-Vit, Vit D, or Selenium, because I perceive the benefit regardless of the above study. Don't take this statement as me saying all supplements are good and large quantities should be taken by all, but there are supplements that are beneficial to some people based on their diet and nutritional needs. My original point was the study was flawed, cause I didn't see any mention of the participants all having the same base-line health stats. This study was like trying to compare the difference between a .45 and .22 by shooting a cardboard box.

Originally Posted by TonyMack

The Linus Pauling Institute is a part of Oregon State University (which Linus Pauling was a professor before his passing at age 93), they have an online library with recommended daily allowances for nutrients.

I suppose, theoretically, if someone had a very balanced diet and consistent sufficient calories, then on paper they would be, balanced. You could even get all the Vit D you needed naturally. And you would never need take a pill, or inject anything, EVER. In fact, Hippocrates once said, "let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food".

I'm not going to stop taking a Multi, B-Vit, Vit D, or Selenium, because I perceive the benefit regardless of the above study. Don't take this statement as me saying all supplements are good and large quantities should be taken by all, but there are supplements that are beneficial to some people based on their diet and nutritional needs. My original point was the study was flawed, cause I didn't see any mention of the participants all having the same base-line health stats. This study was like trying to compare the difference between a .45 and .22 by shooting a cardboard box.

I understand where you're coming from, but they're statistically able to account for the differences you refer to.

And, I don't mean to make blanket statements about all supplements being ineffective, but I do stand by my statement that nutrients from foods are superior, and supplementing those that we don't get doesn't give us the same protection.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

Tony, if you want to see some good research done on nutrition and health, especially how they relate to heart disease, you should look up dr ornish. He was one of the first docs to actually reverse CAD.

Although, this is probably the wrong site to advertise this, since he promotes a mostly whole food, plant-based diet. Nevertheless, he has contributed a lot to the field of cardiac rehab. Which is my area.

I appreciate that, I'll check it out. My total Cholesterol was like 104 last time I had it checked, but could raise the HDL a little. I've been eating more nuts and olive oil. Doc recommended fish/fish oil, but I don't really trust the fishing industry these days.

I know you don't recommend supplements, but since you work in the cardio area, do you think fish oil supps are bad for someone with low HDL?

Most of our cardiologists recommend fish oil for our patients, but to eat the actual fatty fish like salmon would be more beneficial. And, it's a great source of protein!

I try to eat wild salmon at least twice a week.

Originally Posted by TonyMack

I appreciate that, I'll check it out. My total Cholesterol was like 104 last time I had it checked, but could raise the HDL a little. I've been eating more nuts and olive oil. Doc recommended fish/fish oil, but I don't really trust the fishing industry these days.

I know you don't recommend supplements, but since you work in the cardio area, do you think fish oil supps are bad for someone with low HDL?

Let me warn you though, ornish promotes a mostly vegan diet. He works w patients that are candidates for bypass and are either not good candidates, or want to avoid surgery.

Im positive that his diet would not be beneficial to someone who is on aas and looking to put on mass.

I just like to emphasize how important whole grains? Legumes, fruits and veges are for us in regards to cancer and heart disease.

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

Most of our cardiologists recommend fish oil for our patients, but to eat the actual fatty fish like salmon would be more beneficial. And, it's a great source of protein!

I try to eat wild salmon at least twice a week.

That's good advice. The wild stuff is kinda pricey tho

Originally Posted by exphysiologist88

Let me warn you though, ornish promotes a mostly vegan diet. He works w patients that are candidates for bypass and are either not good candidates, or want to avoid surgery.

Im positive that his diet would not be beneficial to someone who is on aas and looking to put on mass.

I just like to emphasize how important whole grains? Legumes, fruits and veges are for us in regards to cancer and heart disease.

That sounds like Dr Richard Flemming's area of work as well. Yeah, I'm not a big mass guy, but I do NEED my protein. I try to stay in good enough shape to run a 10k in 40 minutes and still bench 225. Now that I'm 35 it's getting harder.

Originally Posted by TonyMack

That's good advice. The wild stuff is kinda pricey tho

Yes it is, I buy mine from Costco. I eat a lot of canned salmon and make it up like tuna and have it on a sandwich. Prob not the best since its canned, but it's my compromise.

As far as I know, the experts recommend eating fish, even if it's farmed. Their position is that the benefits outweigh the risks. But, I'm not an expert on farmed vs wild, I just made the decision to eat mostly wild.