Bodybuilding and alcohol...The facts

TheGreatSatan · 09-28-2003, 04:14 AM

Red's Teen Bodybuilding

As bodybuilders, our bodies are our lives. We eat right throughout the week, get plenty of rest, drink lots of water, stay as healthy as possible, and of course, workout. We put all these efforts into ourselves throughout the week, but on weekends we drink like fish and get shit faced. I used to drink heavily on party nights too, until a couple weeks ago when I realized just how much getting drunk was hurting my gains. I'm hoping that after you've read this article, for those of you that drink, you will see just how detrimental alcohol is to building muscle and hopefully cut down on drinking.

Alcohol is empty calories. It doesn't have any nutrients, but does have a caloric value of 7 calories per gram. In just one shot (1.5oz) of 80 proof vodka there's nearly 100 calories. For those of you trying to lose fat, forget it if you are drinking. Not only will the high calorie content of alcohol have a negative effect on your total calorie intake, but it also slows down your metabolism by disrupting the Kreb's cycle. Since the Kreb's cycle isn't working correctly, fats cannot be broken down. In short, your body is trying so hard to digest and metabolize the alcohol, that fat burning stops all together.

Alcohol consumption also hurts muscle growth. Not only due to hangovers lowering your workout intensity, but it actually lowers protein synthesis by 20%. Twenty percent! There are several reasons why it does this. For one, it dehydrates your muscle cells. As many know, hydrated and even over hydrated muscles (like when you take creatine) allows for a much higher anabolic environment. Because your cells aren't holding as much water, it becomes much harder to build muscle. The second reason why alcohol can severely hurt muscle growth is because it blocks the absorption of many important nutrients that are key to muscle contraction, relaxation and growth including calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, iron and potassium.

OK, so I above I lied, there's actually a third way that alcohol slows down protein synthesis, I just wanted to dedicate a big part of this article to it. For those of you that don't already know this, ALCOHOL LOWERS TESTOSTERONE AND INCREASES ESTROGEN! Yes, you read that right. In one particular study, men's testosterone levels were measured before and after consumption of alcohol. At the most intoxicated state, testosterone levels had dropped to an average of 25% lower. It was also interesting to note, that when blood alcohol levels were the highest, testosterone was at its lowest. Alcohol has also been shown to cause a quicker aromatization of androgens into estrogens, which would explain why heavy drinkers often get gynecomastria (bitch tits) over a period of time. For those of you taking andro (and I'm sure you already know my views on andro) I would absolutely avoid alcohol since you already are in risk for gynecomastria with the high androgen levels in your blood. By drinking, you are further putting yourself in risk for aromatization. We should also note, that in a study done with rats, alcohol reduced Insulin like Growth Hormone-1 (IGF-1) by up to 42%. That's a huge drop in IGF-1.

One thing I found unusual due to the drop in testosterone while drinking is that most guys get really horny. Beyond getting beer goggles, why is it that drinking makes you horny? What I found out is that because alcohol lowers testosterone levels so significantly, the body is struggling to bring them back up by releasing LH, in very large quantities. What's also interesting to note is that LH is just as responsible for arousal as testosterone. Unfortunately though, alcohol reduces testosterone levels at the Leydig cell, not the pituitary, so the LH is ineffective in raising testosterone levels.

So what if it is that time of the month, where you hand the keys to someone else and get bombed? Here are some simple hints as how to keep as much muscle as possible from that week while still having fun:

1. Leave at least 2 liters of water by your bedside to drink when you get home before you go to bed. Not only will this prevent a hangover, but it will also help to hydrate your muscles.

2. Drink a protein shake or eat something dense in protein before climbing into bed as well (if you can still stand). This will help curb the catabolism occurring inside your body, not to mention you always need protein.

3. When you wake up the next morning and roll over, pray the girl next to you looks as good as she did last night. If not, shuttle her out of the room as quick as possible before your friends can find out and bust your balls.

4. 45 minutes to an hour before breakfast have a serving of ZMA and 5-10 grams of glutamine. The ZMA will naturally raise your testosterone levels that were lowered from your night of drinking, and the glutamine will help stop catabolism.

5. Eat a big breakfast filled with foods that are rich in protein, calcium, phosphorus and iron. Your body is craving these key nutrients since the alcohol diminished them the night before.

Let's face it, alcohol is fun, real fun. It makes fat girls attractive, gets ugly guys laid, gives the skinny, shy kid confidence to stand up and make a fool of himself, and helps uncoordinated, white guys like me dance. Unfortunately, it also reduces testosterone among all the other negative things mentioned earlier in this article. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have fun, don't be afraid to go out and have a good time. I've seen way too many bodybuilders who stay in on weekends. Go out, drink a few beers, have a good time, just keep it in moderation.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot - LIFT ANGRY.

http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/bigalcohol.htm

Trump · 09-28-2003, 06:36 AM

Excellent thread!!!

jayfaris112 · 09-28-2003, 08:49 AM

Very, very, helpfull thanks!!!

Tha Don · 09-28-2003, 09:59 AM

Usually I do not touch alcohol

and i normally drive when I go out... so i have a good excuse to tell everyone. That normally shuts them up better then saying 'its bad for my health', that just makes me sound like a bit of a pussy

But if I ever do drink alcohol (like on my birthday or at new year, probably the only 2 occasions i'll touch the stuff) I know what to do

Good post bro

Arthur2004 · 09-28-2003, 10:38 AM

well i had been staying away from the stuff lately cause i taught it hurt my gains but didn't know for sure....now i do...thanks

ST240 · 09-28-2003, 01:18 PM

i should start drinking more beer... i cant gain weight no matter what i do

TheGreatSatan · 09-29-2003, 05:02 AM

Can this be a stickey?

wraith · 09-29-2003, 10:53 AM

i used to drink all the time but havent in a long while and im glad ,this should be sticky btw

BabsieGirl · 09-29-2003, 11:15 AM

thanks for posting this. I've always wondering why men and women in the fitness/figure and or BB world would want to drink away their gains.

This is a very information thread!

johnpar · 09-29-2003, 04:23 PM

Alcohol does more than screw up your training gains. If used in excess, binge or every day drinking, it will cause you to make poor decisions and can really F**K UP your life. Yes, I know there is nothing that tastes better than a cold beer on a hot day, and yes, alcohol can give you false confidence/courage to do things that you would otherwise avoid. Been there, done all of that! You will never know how sweet and enjoyable life can be until you can do it all and enjoy it without using alcohol.

ST240 · 09-29-2003, 10:43 PM

dude alcohol is my best friend

slipangle · 09-30-2003, 03:51 AM

thanks for the post

BlackLabelSDMF · 09-30-2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by young d
Usually I do not touch alcohol

and i normally drive when I go out... so i have a good excuse to tell everyone. That normally shuts them up better then saying 'its bad for my health', that just makes me sound like a bit of a pussy

Screw what they think man. I mean when people ask me why I don't drink the first thing I say is health reasons and I don't want ANYTHING standing between me and possible gains and if they get all pissy I'll just tell em to fvck off. I mean either now or oneday you will be bigger and in way better shape then them. You win in the end.

I also agree, great post!

prophet · 10-04-2003, 09:58 PM

good post.. should have read it before i touched the alcohol

kdwa1 · 10-04-2003, 10:18 PM

Alittle alchohol kicks ass sometimes and feels good.Takes away the tension and smoothes life out.Moderation and enjoy I say.

Mex · 10-05-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

3. When you wake up the next morning and roll over, pray the girl next to you looks as good as she did last night. If not, shuttle her out of the room as quick as possible before your friends can find out and bust your balls.

LOL

I actually laughed out loud

Anyone had that happen? Scary, aint it.

kdwa1 · 10-05-2003, 09:11 PM

It's another Tequila sunrise.But look out when you open your eyes.Is it a beauty or a beast??

It's hapened to a few of my friends and Ivé been known to get pretty loose too.Oh my God. Last time I got drunk I lost my memory of six hours.Only my wife told me what happened.I was just happy I said her name instead of someone elses.I'm always worried I'll spill my guts or teel the truth for Christ's sake.So I drink moderately.:ek:

rez · 01-14-2004, 01:50 AM

Hi,
Are you Big Red? I hope so. I hope he didn't steal your work to make money from it. Have a look:

***********************No advertising**************

In the U.S.A., when someone writes an article, book, poem, or song, it is immediately copyrighted. The official filing of a copyright is just for legal proof and help in court.

Maybe you dont care if he stole it anyway. Great info though, thanks.

plouffe · 01-14-2004, 06:45 AM

You probally stole this article too... Give some credit.

**Dale Mabry** · 01-14-2004, 09:56 AM

I fail to see where he did not site the original author.

rez · 01-14-2004, 10:11 AM

That was added to the top and bottom. Maybe he didn't realize he even forgot to put that link at first, maybe teenbodybuilding.com asked for it, or maybe Robert asked for it. Either way, I was just writing something I noticed that was interesting. I didn't mean to make this a longer thread for this kind of crap. It's great info and hopefully more people will find it useful here. Sorry again.

BiG RED · 01-14-2004, 10:17 AM

I'm big red. I wrote it, and he gave me credit, so no worries.

lift angry

-Br

Deeznuts · 01-14-2004, 11:13 AM

Wow! Great thread!

If one of my friends asks me again why I stopped drinking i'll just refer them to this article. I love the content here; very helpful.

ANT1 · 01-14-2004, 11:36 AM

**keep ignorant statements to yourself**

jadakris31 · 01-14-2004, 11:41 AM

funny post since i turned 21 yesterday and hit up my 21 shots and now im going to the gym ... they def affect workouts though but i just cant help myself - im in college

SJ69 · 01-14-2004, 06:26 PM

you know what they say about all work and no fun...
It's better to be body builder and have a few on poker night than to just have a few on poker night.
I know it's PC (and easy) to bash alcohol, but if you factor the Calories into your diet and don't replace protein cal's with R-OH cal's then there's no prob.
Really, lets say I put 50 lbs on to my bench in the past year (250-300) how much more do you really think I'd be gettin now if I didn't enjoy those Sunday football games, poker nights and the occasional ti77y bar night out?

Michael D · 01-15-2004, 01:06 AM

I love beer. I am drinking a nice 24oz out of my stein right now

How many studies have I seen where drinking moderately cut men's chances of heart attacks by huge numbers? Too many to count. That alone is enough to make someone want to drink a few a week.

I understand that this article basically concerns heavy drinking and workouts soon thereafter but I had to add.

seabee · 01-15-2004, 04:38 PM

Arnold once said in an interview that he loved beer and hamburgers...daily.

HoldDaMayo · 01-15-2004, 08:05 PM

I wish I could have read what Ant1 typed... now I'm curious...

09-28-2003, 04:14 AM	#1
TheGreatSatan Satan Loves You Too Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In Min0's Bed! Posts: 11,778 Photos: 16	Bodybuilding and alcohol...The facts BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com Red's Teen Bodybuilding As bodybuilders, our bodies are our lives. We eat right throughout the week, get plenty of rest, drink lots of water, stay as healthy as possible, and of course, workout. We put all these efforts into ourselves throughout the week, but on weekends we drink like fish and get shit faced. I used to drink heavily on party nights too, until a couple weeks ago when I realized just how much getting drunk was hurting my gains. I'm hoping that after you've read this article, for those of you that drink, you will see just how detrimental alcohol is to building muscle and hopefully cut down on drinking. Alcohol is empty calories. It doesn't have any nutrients, but does have a caloric value of 7 calories per gram. In just one shot (1.5oz) of 80 proof vodka there's nearly 100 calories. For those of you trying to lose fat, forget it if you are drinking. Not only will the high calorie content of alcohol have a negative effect on your total calorie intake, but it also slows down your metabolism by disrupting the Kreb's cycle. Since the Kreb's cycle isn't working correctly, fats cannot be broken down. In short, your body is trying so hard to digest and metabolize the alcohol, that fat burning stops all together. Alcohol consumption also hurts muscle growth. Not only due to hangovers lowering your workout intensity, but it actually lowers protein synthesis by 20%. Twenty percent! There are several reasons why it does this. For one, it dehydrates your muscle cells. As many know, hydrated and even over hydrated muscles (like when you take creatine) allows for a much higher anabolic environment. Because your cells aren't holding as much water, it becomes much harder to build muscle. The second reason why alcohol can severely hurt muscle growth is because it blocks the absorption of many important nutrients that are key to muscle contraction, relaxation and growth including calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, iron and potassium. OK, so I above I lied, there's actually a third way that alcohol slows down protein synthesis, I just wanted to dedicate a big part of this article to it. For those of you that don't already know this, ALCOHOL LOWERS TESTOSTERONE AND INCREASES ESTROGEN! Yes, you read that right. In one particular study, men's testosterone levels were measured before and after consumption of alcohol. At the most intoxicated state, testosterone levels had dropped to an average of 25% lower. It was also interesting to note, that when blood alcohol levels were the highest, testosterone was at its lowest. Alcohol has also been shown to cause a quicker aromatization of androgens into estrogens, which would explain why heavy drinkers often get gynecomastria (bitch tits) over a period of time. For those of you taking andro (and I'm sure you already know my views on andro) I would absolutely avoid alcohol since you already are in risk for gynecomastria with the high androgen levels in your blood. By drinking, you are further putting yourself in risk for aromatization. We should also note, that in a study done with rats, alcohol reduced Insulin like Growth Hormone-1 (IGF-1) by up to 42%. That's a huge drop in IGF-1. One thing I found unusual due to the drop in testosterone while drinking is that most guys get really horny. Beyond getting beer goggles, why is it that drinking makes you horny? What I found out is that because alcohol lowers testosterone levels so significantly, the body is struggling to bring them back up by releasing LH, in very large quantities. What's also interesting to note is that LH is just as responsible for arousal as testosterone. Unfortunately though, alcohol reduces testosterone levels at the Leydig cell, not the pituitary, so the LH is ineffective in raising testosterone levels. So what if it is that time of the month, where you hand the keys to someone else and get bombed? Here are some simple hints as how to keep as much muscle as possible from that week while still having fun: 1. Leave at least 2 liters of water by your bedside to drink when you get home before you go to bed. Not only will this prevent a hangover, but it will also help to hydrate your muscles. 2. Drink a protein shake or eat something dense in protein before climbing into bed as well (if you can still stand). This will help curb the catabolism occurring inside your body, not to mention you always need protein. 3. When you wake up the next morning and roll over, pray the girl next to you looks as good as she did last night. If not, shuttle her out of the room as quick as possible before your friends can find out and bust your balls. 4. 45 minutes to an hour before breakfast have a serving of ZMA and 5-10 grams of glutamine. The ZMA will naturally raise your testosterone levels that were lowered from your night of drinking, and the glutamine will help stop catabolism. 5. Eat a big breakfast filled with foods that are rich in protein, calcium, phosphorus and iron. Your body is craving these key nutrients since the alcohol diminished them the night before. Let's face it, alcohol is fun, real fun. It makes fat girls attractive, gets ugly guys laid, gives the skinny, shy kid confidence to stand up and make a fool of himself, and helps uncoordinated, white guys like me dance. Unfortunately, it also reduces testosterone among all the other negative things mentioned earlier in this article. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have fun, don't be afraid to go out and have a good time. I've seen way too many bodybuilders who stay in on weekends. Go out, drink a few beers, have a good time, just keep it in moderation. Oh yeah, I almost forgot - LIFT ANGRY. http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/bigalcohol.htm
	---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------

09-28-2003, 06:36 AM	#2
Trump Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: United States Posts: 293	Excellent thread!!!
	"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great."

09-28-2003, 10:38 AM	#5
Arthur2004 Phat Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 265 Photos: 8	well i had been staying away from the stuff lately cause i taught it hurt my gains but didn't know for sure....now i do...thanks
	Kool Pic i took with my Camera of me flexing

09-29-2003, 05:02 AM	#7
TheGreatSatan Satan Loves You Too Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In Min0's Bed! Posts: 11,778 Photos: 16	Can this be a stickey?
	---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------

09-29-2003, 10:53 AM	#8
wraith the forth horseman Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 103	i used to drink all the time but havent in a long while and im glad ,this should be sticky btw
	when you cant hear the music in your head phones ,cause the guy next to you is grunting out one more rep and cussing at the weights remember .... that guy is probably me

09-28-2003, 08:49 AM	#3
jayfaris112 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 18	Very, very, helpfull thanks!!!

09-28-2003, 09:59 AM	#4
Tha Don Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, England Posts: 3,826 Photos: 33	Usually I do not touch alcohol and i normally drive when I go out... so i have a good excuse to tell everyone. That normally shuts them up better then saying 'its bad for my health', that just makes me sound like a bit of a pussy But if I ever do drink alcohol (like on my birthday or at new year, probably the only 2 occasions i'll touch the stuff) I know what to do Good post bro

09-28-2003, 01:18 PM	#6
ST240 ...And justice for all. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 1,388	i should start drinking more beer... i cant gain weight no matter what i do

09-29-2003, 11:15 AM	#9
BabsieGirl Fighting Endometriosis Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 7,495	thanks for posting this. I've always wondering why men and women in the fitness/figure and or BB world would want to drink away their gains. This is a very information thread!
	Don't hate the player, hate the game!http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/...the%20wave.GIF Before you talk about what you want - appreciate what you have. http://home.earthlink.net/~gwcaton/s...ctures/tmf.jpg A good marriage would be between a blind wife and a deaf husband. -Honore de Balzac Desire+Consistency='s RESULTS

09-29-2003, 04:23 PM	#10
johnpar Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Winchester, VA Posts: 5	Alcohol does more than screw up your training gains. If used in excess, binge or every day drinking, it will cause you to make poor decisions and can really F**K UP your life. Yes, I know there is nothing that tastes better than a cold beer on a hot day, and yes, alcohol can give you false confidence/courage to do things that you would otherwise avoid. Been there, done all of that! You will never know how sweet and enjoyable life can be until you can do it all and enjoy it without using alcohol.

09-29-2003, 10:43 PM	#11
ST240 ...And justice for all. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 1,388	dude alcohol is my best friend

09-30-2003, 03:51 AM	#12
slipangle Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 7	thanks for the post
slipangle Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 7

10-04-2003, 09:58 PM	#14
prophet Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Ramon Posts: 237	good post.. should have read it before i touched the alcohol

10-04-2003, 10:18 PM	#15
kdwa1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Asia Posts: 303	Alittle alchohol kicks ass sometimes and feels good.Takes away the tension and smoothes life out.Moderation and enjoy I say.
	Live Well- Live Long- Keep Rockin

10-05-2003, 09:11 PM	#17
kdwa1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Asia Posts: 303	It's another Tequila sunrise.But look out when you open your eyes.Is it a beauty or a beast?? It's hapened to a few of my friends and Ivé been known to get pretty loose too.Oh my God. Last time I got drunk I lost my memory of six hours.Only my wife told me what happened.I was just happy I said her name instead of someone elses.I'm always worried I'll spill my guts or teel the truth for Christ's sake.So I drink moderately.:ek:
	Live Well- Live Long- Keep Rockin

01-14-2004, 06:45 AM	#19
plouffe is bulking Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,786 Photos: 6	You probally stole this article too... Give some credit.
	These are my favorite faces : - - - Personal Bests: Bench - 235 Deadlift - 315 X 17 Squat - 315 X 11 40 yrd. - 4.65

01-14-2004, 09:56 AM	#20
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,750 Photos: 10	I fail to see where he did not site the original author.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

01-14-2004, 01:50 AM	#18
rez Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 19	I've seen this before Hi, Are you Big Red? I hope so. I hope he didn't steal your work to make money from it. Have a look: *********************No advertising************ In the U.S.A., when someone writes an article, book, poem, or song, it is immediately copyrighted. The official filing of a copyright is just for legal proof and help in court. Maybe you dont care if he stole it anyway. Great info though, thanks. Last edited by dg806 : 01-14-2004 at 12:04 PM.
rez Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 19	rez

01-14-2004, 10:11 AM	#21
rez Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 19	That was added to the top and bottom. Maybe he didn't realize he even forgot to put that link at first, maybe teenbodybuilding.com asked for it, or maybe Robert asked for it. Either way, I was just writing something I noticed that was interesting. I didn't mean to make this a longer thread for this kind of crap. It's great info and hopefully more people will find it useful here. Sorry again.
rez Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 19	rez

01-14-2004, 10:17 AM	#22
BiG RED Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1	I'm big red. I wrote it, and he gave me credit, so no worries. lift angry -Br
BiG RED Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1	You have to laugh with the people, until you get to the top. But once you do, and look down and see all the little people that doubted you, and tried to stop you. Then you laugh AT the people.

01-14-2004, 11:13 AM	#23
Deeznuts Still Growing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 771 Photos: 2	Wow! Great thread! If one of my friends asks me again why I stopped drinking i'll just refer them to this article. I love the content here; very helpful.
	Desire.Dedication.Deeznuts

01-14-2004, 11:36 AM	#24
ANT1 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 18	keep ignorant statements to yourself Last edited by dg806 : 01-14-2004 at 12:08 PM.
ANT1 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 18

01-14-2004, 11:41 AM	#25
jadakris31 jersey's here Join Date: May 2003 Location: nj Posts: 390 Photos: 1	funny post since i turned 21 yesterday and hit up my 21 shots and now im going to the gym ... they def affect workouts though but i just cant help myself - im in college
	somehow trying to get the abs but bulk at the same time.......

01-14-2004, 06:26 PM	#26
SJ69 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 1,023 Photos: 1	you know what they say about all work and no fun... It's better to be body builder and have a few on poker night than to just have a few on poker night. I know it's PC (and easy) to bash alcohol, but if you factor the Calories into your diet and don't replace protein cal's with R-OH cal's then there's no prob. Really, lets say I put 50 lbs on to my bench in the past year (250-300) how much more do you really think I'd be gettin now if I didn't enjoy those Sunday football games, poker nights and the occasional ti77y bar night out?
	"I don't like small cars or real big women, but somehow I always find myself in 'em" - KR

01-15-2004, 01:06 AM	#27
Michael D Working on a new me! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: East Coast US Posts: 393 Photos: 4	I love beer. I am drinking a nice 24oz out of my stein right now How many studies have I seen where drinking moderately cut men's chances of heart attacks by huge numbers? Too many to count. That alone is enough to make someone want to drink a few a week. I understand that this article basically concerns heavy drinking and workouts soon thereafter but I had to add.
	"Fear profits man nothing."

01-15-2004, 04:38 PM	#28
seabee Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 165	Arnold once said in an interview that he loved beer and hamburgers...daily.
seabee Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 165

01-15-2004, 08:05 PM	#29
HoldDaMayo Just call me Mayo Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oceanside, CA Posts: 1,917 Photos: 4	I wish I could have read what Ant1 typed... now I'm curious...
	Are you kidding me????