Discussion thread for thyroid patients only

Johnnny · 04-25-2004, 07:46 AM

I'm starting this new hypo or hyper thyroidism discussion thread as you've read the other one has been completely soiled by a certain individual. I'd appreciate it if ppl who have had or have thyroid dysfunctions or have friends or family that have thyroid dysfunctions reply to this thread only please. I would like to hear your experiences about it, what effect it's had on your life & your physique & personality if it at all changed. & what type of treatment your endocrinologist gave you. I've already shared mine, but here is a descent link with information about symptoms of the 2 conditions I found. There are more good links out there.

One of the site moderators PM'd me & told me that ephedrine/ephedra do increase your thyroid levels known as
T3 & T4. He did say in "Most" cases the individuals thyroid should return back to an equalibrium after usage is stopped. But in my case & a few other ppl I know their thyroid remained in the hyper state even after we stopped using the supplement. & It was known for many years that none of us had pre-existing thyroid conditions as annual check ups prove that. But ppl who know they have conditions should not take any of these supplements or the fat burners especially the ones containing the herbal form Ma Huang.

Thanks for replying. Serious & thyroid ppl only please. Thank you. Have a good day.

http://www.umm.edu/patiented/article...m_000038_2.htm

Johnnny · 05-06-2004, 08:08 AM

This is the thyroid thread we should now respond to.

telliott · 04-11-2008, 11:57 AM

i have been a thyroid patient since 1993. i take synthroid on a daily basis now and am very regulated. i've always tried to be as active as possible, and lately have been trying to step it up. i have been working with a fitness trainer at our local gold's gym for about 6 months now. i originally started out with a loss of 10-15 lbs and body fat loss of about 4%. two years ago i had a baby. at any rate, for the past two months for sure, i've been really struggling to build more muscle and lose the last few inches of fat, especially around my tummy area. i eat relatively clean on a daily basis. i weight train at least three times per week, and do interval cardio 2-4 times per week. i really feel like i've hit a wall and am in the best shape i can ever be, thanks to being a thyroid patient! arrgghhh! is there anyone out there that has any suggestions, ideas, things they've tried with success? advice on what to stay away from in regards to supplements, fat burners, etc? i have been researching several products that claim to help lose fat and of course they ALL have that thyroid patient warning/risks, on them. is there anything out there i CAN take? or do? or am i just stuck with this extra flab????

thanks in advance for any replies!!

Yanick · 04-11-2008, 12:20 PM

Check out the diet section. 'Relatively clean' eating is what is stopping you. Time to step up your diet. You may even need to raise your kcals for a week and then start with a hypocaloric diet again to get rid of that stubborn fat. The more fat your body drops, the harder it will work to keep that last little bit...its an adaptive mechanism developed over hundreds of years when food was scarce unfortunately with today's massive quantity and rock bottom quality it has become very mal adaptive as evidenced by the sky high obesity, CVD, type II diabetes rates in the US.

**Built** · 04-11-2008, 01:45 PM

You're female, so you might find combined T4 T3 treatment works better than T4 alone. Seems that something about having more testosterone helps in the conversion.

telliott · 04-11-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanick

Check out the diet section. 'Relatively clean' eating is what is stopping you. Time to step up your diet. You may even need to raise your kcals for a week and then start with a hypocaloric diet again to get rid of that stubborn fat. The more fat your body drops, the harder it will work to keep that last little bit...its an adaptive mechanism developed over hundreds of years when food was scarce unfortunately with today's massive quantity and rock bottom quality it has become very mal adaptive as evidenced by the sky high obesity, CVD, type II diabetes rates in the US.

thanks. tell me, how do you feel about coffee? is two cups a day a bad thing or detrimental to a clean diet? i have a coffee with artificial sweetener and a little cream every other day or so.

telliott · 04-11-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

You're female, so you might find combined T4 T3 treatment works better than T4 alone. Seems that something about having more testosterone helps in the conversion.

thanks. i've wondered about that for a while but my dr keeps telling me my synthroid is all i need and that it covers all bases.

**Built** · 04-11-2008, 02:30 PM

How old are you? Are you on the pill?

PS read: Stop The Thyroid Madness » Index Page

telliott · 04-11-2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

How old are you? Are you on the pill?

PS read: Stop The Thyroid Madness » Index Page

i'm just turning 36 next week; and no, i'm not on the pill.

**Built** · 04-11-2008, 02:57 PM

What were your most recent labs (and ranges) for TSH, free T4 and free T3?

Do you have Hashi's?

telliott · 04-11-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

What were your most recent labs (and ranges) for TSH, free T4 and free T3?

Do you have Hashi's?

no i do not have hashi's. i was diagnosed with grave's disease(hyperactive thyroid), but was given the RAI treatment twice and am now at a below normal function so i have to supplement with synthroid. i haven't a copy of my recent labs to give you numbers, but i am going next week to have labs taken again...i go every three months.

telliott · 04-11-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telliott

i'm just turning 36 next week; and no, i'm not on the pill.

who authored the 'stop the madness' website and information? how accurate and reliable is it? are you a thyroid patient yourself? i have always felt that some of the symptoms were still present and have felt that there's gotta be something else missing for treatment.

**Built** · 04-11-2008, 04:48 PM

It's a legit site, good information and yes, I'm on thyroid meds.

Hoglander · 04-11-2008, 07:15 PM

I've had three lives... before thyroid problems, during thyroid problems and after thyroid problems.

I went to a GI doctor thinking that there must be something wrong with my digestion since food went through me so fast and I needed so much food to maintain weight. I was 25. After 5 years of this gut test that gut test he finally miss diagnosed me!!? He gave me a medicine I ended up being allergic to. That put me in the hospital for 23 days of hell thinking I was going to die young.

Thank God one Dr finally said, "Let's give him every possible blood test and go from there." This was 6 months out of the hospital. Turns out I have Graves. Luckily my eyes are not to involved, BTW.

I did the Radioactive Iodine Treatment to get rid of my thyroid. My stomach is fine, I can slow down if I want, I can sit still if I want, I can wait in a line without going nuts, I can control my temper now, I don't eat half the day and shit the other half etc etc... My wife had even left me and taken our 5yr old daughter away from me during that time because I was so very impatient with everything. The wife came back with the kid and life is good on 200mcg of Levoxyl a day at 44yrs old.

My Endocrinologist is awesome. He said I may have set an all time record for how much hormone my thyroid was putting out back then. Over the years we have become pretty close. He has taken me on as my primary physician and my wife as well. She had a growth in one side of hers and had it removed, coincidently. She takes 100mcg so her remaining thyroid doesn't have to work so hard.

Hoglander · 04-11-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telliott

who authored the 'stop the madness' website and information? how accurate and reliable is it? are you a thyroid patient yourself? i have always felt that some of the symptoms were still present and have felt that there's gotta be something else missing for treatment.

There is probably a lot we have in common but my body fat situation has been different. My whole life I've been 8 pack lean and muscular. Now for the first time in my life I have a bit of a gut. I'm almost proud of it. OK I am proud of it, I feel normal now. Yeah me! I'm not that guy that can eat anything and never get fat. I think I might try lowering my calories by about 500 a day to see if I can make it go away. It's been a year since I got it. It's a whole new game for me though. At least I know the calories in everything from trying to put on weight.

Hoglander · 04-11-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

How old are you? Are you on the pill?

PS read: Stop The Thyroid Madness ï¿½ Index Page

For me that site is BULL SHIT. I'm sure I speak for my wife as well, BULL SHIT. To others not so much, I guess, or it wouldn't be there.

**Built** · 04-11-2008, 10:39 PM

I'm interested to hear why you think so Hoglander.

Can you summarize what part you disagree with?

Hoglander · 04-11-2008, 11:43 PM

I feel they are describing common problems that many people endure, people with no thyroid dysfunction. They try to mount these common problems up in an attempt to show correlation between those common problems and thyroid treatment as if it proves causation. Correlation does not prove causation. Again, we are talking about a long list common problems that are frankly just part of the human condition and nothing necessarily related to thyroid function.

**Built** · 04-11-2008, 11:56 PM

Fair enough.

But that could be true of any health problem. That's why you need to work with a good doctor -again, for any health problem.

Hormonal problems are so fiddly though, hey? Tinker with one component and you affect the entire system.

I'm in the process of having my hormones balanced and it is a very slow process: small tweak, watch what happens, test, titrate doses. Repeat.

I think the chief objections to conventional thyroid treatment - at least in the case of hypo-t that isn't the result of thyroid cancer/ablation, is that treatment is often based entirely on TSH, that the range for TSH is typically far too high, and that T4 only replacement is the standard protocol.

For many, these protocols are harmful in the sense that non-treatment of valid hypo-T with patient-appropriate care often leads to inappropriate care in the form of depression, ADHD, diabetes, cholesterol and obesity meds - approaches which treat symptoms, but don't address the underlying problem.

Now I'm not saying some people really don't have anything wrong with them - but again, that can be said of many situations. For the ones who do, getting appropriate testing and proper treatment means getting our lives back.

Now, you're on T4 only treatment. My understanding is that men may respond better to this type of thyroid replacement therapy than women. How often do you have your levels tested? Do you happen to know your free T4 and free T3 levels? I ask out of academic curiosity; I'd love to see how they look given how good you feel.

telliott · 04-12-2008, 11:38 AM

i just have to tell you guys how great it is to know there are others out there that are/have been just as frustrated as i am with this whole thyroid business. i've been told that it is very hereditary and generally skips a generation and is more predominant in women. now that i have a two year daughter i wish with all my heart that she is never affected with this condition!

on the stop the madness site it lists some tests recommended to have done. are these available in canada? i know the tsh, t3 and t4 is, i've seen those on the lab requisition. the others i am not so sure. any recommendations from anyone on what i should ask my dr for when i go on tuesday? i really want to get serious about getting this sorted out. does my age play any part in this? i am 5foot 4inches tall, 36 yrs old, i weight 118lbs and have a bodyfat of a whopping 21%. am i being unrealistic in wanting to get rid of my flabby stomach and be able to wear summer clothes without embarrassment?

**Built** · 04-12-2008, 02:43 PM

I am in Canada, and yes they are.

Hoglander · 04-12-2008, 06:49 PM

I have my TSH and T4 checked once a year or when ever I feel like it. If I feel like it I call the Dr and say I'm coming in for a couple of minutes for labs and he mails the results.
Last August TSH was
.345 uIU/mL "Low" normal is .35-5.5.

free T4 was 1.5 ng/dL normal .61 -1.76

No T3 test

Anyhow, I said I feel good and he said, "It's a full dose. "

It's the dose I've been on for years.

BTW... He doesn't like the pig stuff but he did have 2 patients on it last we talked about it. He also is no big fan of Levoxyl but he's cool with my choice. It's my choice and I went with the savings. Synthroid is the most consistent product and the one he prefers to give.

**Built** · 04-12-2008, 07:00 PM

That's awesome - you look and sound like you're being optimized nicely. Your TSH is suppressed and you feel good!

If we had your free T3 it would be interesting - most people feel best when free T4 is in the bottom third of the normal range and free T3 is in the top third - something that indicates that you are deiodinizing your T4 well.

For the newbs: TSH stimulates T4 and a little T3 to be produced by the thyroid. Hoglander here had to have his thyroid destroyed, so he's on replacement meds that give him the T4 his thyroid can no longer produce.

T4 is the storage form of the hormone - where T3 is the active form. A model sometimes mentioned is that T4 is the food in your fridge, where T3 is the food on your plate. As you require it, your body de-iodinizes some T4 into the T3 your body requires.

Now - the problem is that SOME bodies are better at this process than others. In particular, it seems - at least anecdotally - that men's bodies perform this conversion a little better than women's bodies do. Keep in mind - a functioning thyroid produces a little T3 directly. And as we diet, the body responds by reducing T4 - T3 conversion in an effort to slow metabolism.

I do not pretend to understand this process. But my feeling about the possible sex-difference came first from observation (I network with a number of women with thyroid disorder) and from reading, in particular this article on male to female and female to male transsexuals:

"Testosterone increased T3/T4 ratios (30 ± 9%, P=0.02), which probably reflects higher T4 to T3 conversion."

I have a strong suspicion that perhaps more women than men could benefit from combined T4-T3 therapy, particularly those women on OC, since exogenous estrogen suppresses female testosterone levels to post-menopausal levels.

Hoglander · 04-12-2008, 07:29 PM

In other words your thyroid would normally, on average, produce 20% of the T3 and 80% would come from T4 conversion to T3. So she is saying if your conversion sucks because you are a woman you might not have enough T3 especially with no thyroid. So in that case you should ask about testing T3 if your doctor hasn't been. That's fair enough.

**Built** · 04-12-2008, 07:47 PM

Thanks Hoglander - that's exactly right.

Keep in mind there are other factors that are involved in the T4-T3 conversion rate. Testosterone is just one of them. There are more than a few men who seem to feel better on combined therapy as well.

From what I've seen, you really need to have a good doctor to work with - it can be VERY individual.

04-25-2004, 07:46 AM	#1
Johnnny Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,844	Discussion thread for thyroid patients only BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com I'm starting this new hypo or hyper thyroidism discussion thread as you've read the other one has been completely soiled by a certain individual. I'd appreciate it if ppl who have had or have thyroid dysfunctions or have friends or family that have thyroid dysfunctions reply to this thread only please. I would like to hear your experiences about it, what effect it's had on your life & your physique & personality if it at all changed. & what type of treatment your endocrinologist gave you. I've already shared mine, but here is a descent link with information about symptoms of the 2 conditions I found. There are more good links out there. One of the site moderators PM'd me & told me that ephedrine/ephedra do increase your thyroid levels known as T3 & T4. He did say in "Most" cases the individuals thyroid should return back to an equalibrium after usage is stopped. But in my case & a few other ppl I know their thyroid remained in the hyper state even after we stopped using the supplement. & It was known for many years that none of us had pre-existing thyroid conditions as annual check ups prove that. But ppl who know they have conditions should not take any of these supplements or the fat burners especially the ones containing the herbal form Ma Huang. Thanks for replying. Serious & thyroid ppl only please. Thank you. Have a good day. http://www.umm.edu/patiented/article...m_000038_2.htm

04-11-2008, 11:57 AM	#3
telliott Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 7	stubborn abdominal fat i have been a thyroid patient since 1993. i take synthroid on a daily basis now and am very regulated. i've always tried to be as active as possible, and lately have been trying to step it up. i have been working with a fitness trainer at our local gold's gym for about 6 months now. i originally started out with a loss of 10-15 lbs and body fat loss of about 4%. two years ago i had a baby. at any rate, for the past two months for sure, i've been really struggling to build more muscle and lose the last few inches of fat, especially around my tummy area. i eat relatively clean on a daily basis. i weight train at least three times per week, and do interval cardio 2-4 times per week. i really feel like i've hit a wall and am in the best shape i can ever be, thanks to being a thyroid patient! arrgghhh! is there anyone out there that has any suggestions, ideas, things they've tried with success? advice on what to stay away from in regards to supplements, fat burners, etc? i have been researching several products that claim to help lose fat and of course they ALL have that thyroid patient warning/risks, on them. is there anything out there i CAN take? or do? or am i just stuck with this extra flab???? thanks in advance for any replies!!

04-11-2008, 12:20 PM	#4
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	Check out the diet section. 'Relatively clean' eating is what is stopping you. Time to step up your diet. You may even need to raise your kcals for a week and then start with a hypocaloric diet again to get rid of that stubborn fat. The more fat your body drops, the harder it will work to keep that last little bit...its an adaptive mechanism developed over hundreds of years when food was scarce unfortunately with today's massive quantity and rock bottom quality it has become very mal adaptive as evidenced by the sky high obesity, CVD, type II diabetes rates in the US.
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	"...we have to remember that training is a complicated dance of stimuli and response. Our goal is to understand how to manipulate the stimuli in order to evoke the responses we desire." -Nathan J. Polenchek

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05-06-2004, 08:08 AM	#2
Johnnny Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,844	This is the thyroid thread we should now respond to.

04-11-2008, 01:45 PM	#5
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,347	You're female, so you might find combined T4 T3 treatment works better than T4 alone. Seems that something about having more testosterone helps in the conversion.

04-11-2008, 02:30 PM	#8
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,347	How old are you? Are you on the pill? PS read: Stop The Thyroid Madness » Index Page

04-11-2008, 02:57 PM	#10
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,347	What were your most recent labs (and ranges) for TSH, free T4 and free T3? Do you have Hashi's?

04-11-2008, 04:48 PM	#13
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,347	It's a legit site, good information and yes, I'm on thyroid meds.

04-11-2008, 07:15 PM	#14
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 980 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 10	I've had three lives... before thyroid problems, during thyroid problems and after thyroid problems. I went to a GI doctor thinking that there must be something wrong with my digestion since food went through me so fast and I needed so much food to maintain weight. I was 25. After 5 years of this gut test that gut test he finally miss diagnosed me!!? He gave me a medicine I ended up being allergic to. That put me in the hospital for 23 days of hell thinking I was going to die young. Thank God one Dr finally said, "Let's give him every possible blood test and go from there." This was 6 months out of the hospital. Turns out I have Graves. Luckily my eyes are not to involved, BTW. I did the Radioactive Iodine Treatment to get rid of my thyroid. My stomach is fine, I can slow down if I want, I can sit still if I want, I can wait in a line without going nuts, I can control my temper now, I don't eat half the day and shit the other half etc etc... My wife had even left me and taken our 5yr old daughter away from me during that time because I was so very impatient with everything. The wife came back with the kid and life is good on 200mcg of Levoxyl a day at 44yrs old. My Endocrinologist is awesome. He said I may have set an all time record for how much hormone my thyroid was putting out back then. Over the years we have become pretty close. He has taken me on as my primary physician and my wife as well. She had a growth in one side of hers and had it removed, coincidently. She takes 100mcg so her remaining thyroid doesn't have to work so hard.

04-11-2008, 10:39 PM	#17
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,347	I'm interested to hear why you think so Hoglander. Can you summarize what part you disagree with?

04-11-2008, 11:43 PM	#18
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 980 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 10	I feel they are describing common problems that many people endure, people with no thyroid dysfunction. They try to mount these common problems up in an attempt to show correlation between those common problems and thyroid treatment as if it proves causation. Correlation does not prove causation. Again, we are talking about a long list common problems that are frankly just part of the human condition and nothing necessarily related to thyroid function.

04-11-2008, 11:56 PM	#19
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,347	Fair enough. But that could be true of any health problem. That's why you need to work with a good doctor -again, for any health problem. Hormonal problems are so fiddly though, hey? Tinker with one component and you affect the entire system. I'm in the process of having my hormones balanced and it is a very slow process: small tweak, watch what happens, test, titrate doses. Repeat. I think the chief objections to conventional thyroid treatment - at least in the case of hypo-t that isn't the result of thyroid cancer/ablation, is that treatment is often based entirely on TSH, that the range for TSH is typically far too high, and that T4 only replacement is the standard protocol. For many, these protocols are harmful in the sense that non-treatment of valid hypo-T with patient-appropriate care often leads to inappropriate care in the form of depression, ADHD, diabetes, cholesterol and obesity meds - approaches which treat symptoms, but don't address the underlying problem. Now I'm not saying some people really don't have anything wrong with them - but again, that can be said of many situations. For the ones who do, getting appropriate testing and proper treatment means getting our lives back. Now, you're on T4 only treatment. My understanding is that men may respond better to this type of thyroid replacement therapy than women. How often do you have your levels tested? Do you happen to know your free T4 and free T3 levels? I ask out of academic curiosity; I'd love to see how they look given how good you feel.

04-12-2008, 11:38 AM	#20
telliott Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 7	i just have to tell you guys how great it is to know there are others out there that are/have been just as frustrated as i am with this whole thyroid business. i've been told that it is very hereditary and generally skips a generation and is more predominant in women. now that i have a two year daughter i wish with all my heart that she is never affected with this condition! on the stop the madness site it lists some tests recommended to have done. are these available in canada? i know the tsh, t3 and t4 is, i've seen those on the lab requisition. the others i am not so sure. any recommendations from anyone on what i should ask my dr for when i go on tuesday? i really want to get serious about getting this sorted out. does my age play any part in this? i am 5foot 4inches tall, 36 yrs old, i weight 118lbs and have a bodyfat of a whopping 21%. am i being unrealistic in wanting to get rid of my flabby stomach and be able to wear summer clothes without embarrassment?

04-12-2008, 02:43 PM	#21
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,347	I am in Canada, and yes they are.

04-12-2008, 06:49 PM	#22
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 980 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 10	I have my TSH and T4 checked once a year or when ever I feel like it. If I feel like it I call the Dr and say I'm coming in for a couple of minutes for labs and he mails the results. Last August TSH was .345 uIU/mL "Low" normal is .35-5.5. free T4 was 1.5 ng/dL normal .61 -1.76 No T3 test Anyhow, I said I feel good and he said, "It's a full dose. " It's the dose I've been on for years. BTW... He doesn't like the pig stuff but he did have 2 patients on it last we talked about it. He also is no big fan of Levoxyl but he's cool with my choice. It's my choice and I went with the savings. Synthroid is the most consistent product and the one he prefers to give.

04-12-2008, 07:00 PM	#23
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,347	That's awesome - you look and sound like you're being optimized nicely. Your TSH is suppressed and you feel good! If we had your free T3 it would be interesting - most people feel best when free T4 is in the bottom third of the normal range and free T3 is in the top third - something that indicates that you are deiodinizing your T4 well. For the newbs: TSH stimulates T4 and a little T3 to be produced by the thyroid. Hoglander here had to have his thyroid destroyed, so he's on replacement meds that give him the T4 his thyroid can no longer produce. T4 is the storage form of the hormone - where T3 is the active form. A model sometimes mentioned is that T4 is the food in your fridge, where T3 is the food on your plate. As you require it, your body de-iodinizes some T4 into the T3 your body requires. Now - the problem is that SOME bodies are better at this process than others. In particular, it seems - at least anecdotally - that men's bodies perform this conversion a little better than women's bodies do. Keep in mind - a functioning thyroid produces a little T3 directly. And as we diet, the body responds by reducing T4 - T3 conversion in an effort to slow metabolism. I do not pretend to understand this process. But my feeling about the possible sex-difference came first from observation (I network with a number of women with thyroid disorder) and from reading, in particular this article on male to female and female to male transsexuals: "Testosterone increased T3/T4 ratios (30 ± 9%, P=0.02), which probably reflects higher T4 to T3 conversion." I have a strong suspicion that perhaps more women than men could benefit from combined T4-T3 therapy, particularly those women on OC, since exogenous estrogen suppresses female testosterone levels to post-menopausal levels.

04-12-2008, 07:29 PM	#24
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 980 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 10	In other words your thyroid would normally, on average, produce 20% of the T3 and 80% would come from T4 conversion to T3. So she is saying if your conversion sucks because you are a woman you might not have enough T3 especially with no thyroid. So in that case you should ask about testing T3 if your doctor hasn't been. That's fair enough.

04-12-2008, 07:47 PM	#25
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,347	Thanks Hoglander - that's exactly right. Keep in mind there are other factors that are involved in the T4-T3 conversion rate. Testosterone is just one of them. There are more than a few men who seem to feel better on combined therapy as well. From what I've seen, you really need to have a good doctor to work with - it can be VERY individual.