Abdominal Liposuction

kdwa1 · 06-21-2004, 08:40 AM

Hello everyone, Iv'e been trying like crazy to lose abdominal fat for many years without the results that I want.I doing the carb cycling and am on a very low GI diet.Now as a last resort I'm considering doing Liposuction for the mid abdomin and love handles.I'm 6"4" and weigh about 180 lbs.50 years old and in pretty good shape.Just want a better contour.

Has anyone done this or have any info or suggestions? Actually I thought about it years ago but was concerned about the possible negative results and danger. Now after so many years, Iv'e reached the point where I have to get rid of the extra flab.Feedback appreciated.Thanks Kevin

Rauschgift · 06-21-2004, 09:29 AM

Have you thought about testosterone therapy first? At age 50 your test is going to be pretty low which in turn makes it more difficult to increase LBM. Basically what I am saying is before I would go under the knife I would try every other avenue of approach first. Also, you mentioned about your diet but said nothing about working out. Do you workout?

brodus · 06-21-2004, 12:51 PM

6'4" @ 180 and you need liposuction?!

I'm 5'11" w/ abs @ 200 and by no means large-->you must be a really skinny guy-->I can't believe you'd need lipo.

Have you tried any of the Avant Labs products, like Lipo-derm Ultra or Ab-Solved?

I find it impossible to believe that the only solution for you is surgery, which brings it's own problems and insane costs.

What do you do for working out?

Have you ever consindered that maybe since it didn't get your ab fat off that the diet and carb-fixation you've been on doesn't work? People on low-GI diets normally don't have the endurance necessary to work out to the level that produces results...then they pop all kinds of stims and stuff to make up for it...it's a bottomless pit.

I run into this all of the time--bottom line is people that train like athletes, end up looking like athletes, regardless of what they eat (I know I'm about to get flamed by the diet masters here, but I ask you if you've ever been on a college sports team, and if you know what we eat, and look like). The thermo and bio-physics of lipolysis aren't on a sliding scale, they are universal fomulas-->if you burn more than you eat, you lose weight, period. If you train like someone who has a six pack, you will to. Don't take advice from people who are selling surgeries, diets, books, supplements, etc. Look at what athletes do and copy them.

kdwa1 · 06-22-2004, 11:12 AM

Thanks Guys, I'll try to keep it short and simple.Iv'e been working out often heavy all my life and was an extremely avid surfer for many years while living in Hawaii.Believe it or not my body weight was even as low as 160 lbs when I used to surf every day for 3-5 hours but I still had some mid section flab.

Now I'm in the gym about three times a week doing the weights and some swimming.I'm on the low GI and carb routine. Iv'e used many bottles of the ab solve with limited effect although I do like the product.Iv'e also done the pro hormone cycles with 1-ad and 1-test.

I eat three meals and drink two every day and maintain 50g's of protein per meal for a total of about 250 g's per day. I don't eat dairy or junk.And no beer.The rest of my physic is ripped and cut but a soft stomach.I admit I don't do much cardio but my training is steady.All work no play.

The three days is about all I can pull due too a heavy work schedule.Where do I go from here? It does look easy just to have it removed. Oh and my measurements are chest 42",bi's 15" flexed,waist 36",hips 38",legs are a bit twiggy but strong. Usually if I do manage to burn alot of the ab fat I also lose my ass in the process.Not cool,right? Life's a beach.Thanks Kevin

Rauschgift · 06-22-2004, 11:22 AM

Wow I just noticed your height and weight. Something does not add up correctly. I too am 6'4" but I weigh 260 with about 12% bf, I also surf 5-6 days a week. I am having a hard time picturing you with a flabby belly at that weight. Is there any chance you could post a pic so we have a better understanding of what we are working with? Were you ever extremely overweight at one time?

kdwa1 · 06-23-2004, 11:53 AM

I think it also depends on the bone structure.I have a medium frame and not alot of density.In high school I hit about 205 lbs. Was a skinny vegetarian for several years after then managed to get the weight back up after eating normal again.I grew up drinking tons of milk and eating anything so got the infamous tire.I new guys in Hawaii who surfed all the time and were solid but then again there are alot of twigs in the surfing world too.But no fat.So ??? Who knows.Once we get the fat deposits they just don't go away unless we do max cardio and train like an animal but at 50 it's hard to keep up such an intense routine.Are you in California? Thanks for the feedback.

kdwa1 · 06-23-2004, 11:54 AM

Oh sorry no pics at this time but may post in future.

brodus · 06-23-2004, 12:10 PM

I think without cardio, you're never going to lose it...even if you pay out your ass for liposuction, it's gonna come back. No offense, but if its too hard for you to do cardio, you don't deserve to have a six pack, in my book. Liposuction is an easy way out for lazy rich fucks, and it's not even that effective. If you take offense to that, you should, because a lot of us, and a LOT OF PEOPLE OLDER THAN YOU work out like animals because it's who we are, and if you're looking for validation for your lifestyle from people who are in the gym all the time, you're on the wrong board.

On the other hand, the only person I've ever seen who was 180 @ 6'4" was bone rail skinny...so I'm still a little skeptical, no offense....Like I said, I'm 5 inches shorter, 20 pounds heavier, and I have abs.

Rauschgift · 06-23-2004, 01:27 PM

Well if I were you I would really try packing on some muscle. If your going to do cardio stick with HIIT and focus on the weights. As far as Lipo is concerned I wouldn't do it but that's a decision you'll have to make. Also, if you make your chest bigger your stomach wont look so big.

kdwa1 · 06-24-2004, 12:13 AM

Well I'm definitely not rich,but I do feel frustrated after years of "training like an animal" as you so well put it Brodus.I do have to agree with you that cardio is an important factor to burn off excess fat as well as diet and lifting.

I'm only posing the question of Liposuction as a possible alternative on this board out of curiosity,and lack of knowledge.

I know it's somewhat risky and possibly as you say the lazy persons way to the six pack.But some of us do have a very real issue with our body fat that doesn't just simply melt away with cardio.We need to diet all the time and as soon as we eat anything over the limit we gain it back immediatedly.We aren't all pro bodybuliders training like animals everyday.We have families and other responsibilities.

Not everyone has a large maxed out physic, and who cares if someone is a bit skinny.Guys who place all their confidence on their size are abit silly in my book.We all have ego and want to look good but macho arrogant pride is another thing.Besides most of the muscled out big boys can't surf for shit and only can get up on long boards if at all.

OK so maybe Liposuction isn't a good alternative and possibly a stupid one.But it has worked for many people. So if I don't take that road,then what do you suggest? Eat lots of carbs,train all the time,and do prohormones? Hasn't anyone noticed that after a certain age your body doesn't build very fast, recovery is slower,and fat is stored easily??

On a final note,alot of guys have naturally good physics so it's much easier for them to build and rip.Some of us train to live longer and look better but can never really get the body we want, others train to max out the muscle mass having the natural physics and they get exactly what they want.However like it or not we all have natural limitations.Some of us more than others.Personally Iv'e tried for years to get the illusive perfect body to no avail.

So the question of Lipo came up as it has for many.And I do disagree with you Brodus that there isn't a place for this conversation on these boards. You have a right to your very macho opinion but it is a real issue here.All I'm asking for are ideas and alternatives before I possibly make the wrong choice out of frustration.

Hey Rauschgift,I'll work on the chest. :smile:

Sara Valentine · 07-02-2004, 12:49 AM

Hi kdwa1

Just read this thread and thought I'd throw this out there.
Are you aware that lipo only takes the surface fat out and that the underlaying fat causing the bloated or semi-pot belly look will still be there? And even if you do end up doing lipo and get rid of some fat, you still need to train your abs to get that 6pack look your looking for? Also, with lipo you might get rid of surface fat cells from the area you're having problems with, but chances are that it'll come back and in a different spot so then you would have to deal with that issue.
And with every surgery there is down time which might not help you in the look so badly desire. As it means more time sitting on your rear end when you could've been in the gym or tweaking you diet to help your quest.
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I'm just trying to point out that surgery isn't the quick fix people think it is and a lot of times these things could be corrected with a little extra work instead of the extra money and downtime of surgery.
But that just my opinion.

JerseyDevil · 07-02-2004, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brodus

I think without cardio, you're never going to lose it...even if you pay out your ass for liposuction, it's gonna come back. No offense, but if its too hard for you to do cardio, you don't deserve to have a six pack, in my book. Liposuction is an easy way out for lazy rich fucks, and it's not even that effective. If you take offense to that, you should, because a lot of us, and a LOT OF PEOPLE OLDER THAN YOU work out like animals because it's who we are, and if you're looking for validation for your lifestyle from people who are in the gym all the time, you're on the wrong board.

On the other hand, the only person I've ever seen who was 180 @ 6'4" was bone rail skinny...so I'm still a little skeptical, no offense....Like I said, I'm 5 inches shorter, 20 pounds heavier, and I have abs.

Geez Brodus... lighten up dude. I didn't know you could get roid rage on M1T

. Although Kevin hasn't posted here much lately, I do know he is rather dedicated to fitness and a healthly lifestyle. If you noticed, he said in one post he had a ripped and cut physique, just he had a soft stomach. I get the feeling he is just too hard on himself...

Sapphire · 07-02-2004, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyDevil

I get the feeling he is just too hard on himself...

Aren't we all??

brodus · 07-02-2004, 11:30 AM

All I'm saying is that I don't believe anyone needs liposuction, and that it is only a replacement for poor willpower and lack of dedication...if that seems harsh, well, too bad...a lot of things in life are harsh...running until you puke is harsh, but I like to do it...People pay big money to watch professional athletes engage in "harsh" activities they wish they could do...we live in an era of thin-skinned pseudo-adults (my term, meaning post-adolescents conditioned to believe they've matured, yet traditional (read: pre-post-modern revisionist) theories of adult development would say they've not yet reached the "Adult" stage) who are afraid of facing reality and owning up to where they are and what they are thinking in life, and are conditioned to look for external reasons for things they are instrinsically able to resolve on their own.

If you think I am wrong...well, that's just too bad..there are a billion modern examples of this...If modern approaches to self-help, counselling, training, dieting, ETC. AD INFINITUM are working, why is our culture FATTER, DUMBER, and more PSYCHOLOGICALLY FUCKED than ever before? With all of the books, TV shows, personal trainers, etc., you'd think we'd have our problems licked? But this little thing called dedication and motivation, which you cannot purchase, package, resell, or prescribe, just is in short supply....everyone wants to get an A on the test, but only A-students deserve it for the work they put in...everything in life is the same.

I personally believe we are on the last chapter of the modern Western experiment (in fact, in our rush for self-definiton and our obsession with pre-historical influence on history, we've run out of terms to call our generations, now settling at "post-modern," which isn't even a definition), and before I am dead, we will witness a collapse of this modern Babylon...but I digress something fierce.

Sorry for the rant...really, it's not roid rage! (okay my earlier post was, though!)

kdwa1 · 07-02-2004, 12:30 PM

I'm back, and Thanks for all the input,even the guy with the tough edge.Actually Brodus I'm taking your advice and training harder,especially cardio which Iv'e been a bit slack on.I agree 100% that cardio is one of the keys.We do tend to get a bit lazy with it sometimes.
I'm also on the GI diet which is low fat and low GI carbs.It feels alot more normal than on the low or no carb Atkins approach and the carb cycling regime.I eat my carbs mostly in the morning and mid day.If I need to burn up extra fat calories I lower the overall caloric intake for a couple days.Also going a bit more moderate on the protein.
As far as abs are concerned, I do a couple hundred crunches etc. about three times a week.I feel better so won't consider doing Lipo in the near future and probably never Thanks to all the feedback from you people.
Does anyone have anything they want to add on calorie control,fat intake and the GI diet? I'd be interested to hear your ideas. Kevin , Cheers! :smile:

kdwa1 · 07-02-2004, 12:33 PM

OK guys I got the smilie figured out,Duu.

Everyone have a great day and keep pumping.Stay cool.

JerseyDevil · 07-02-2004, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Sorry for the rant...really, it's not roid rage!

...ok, too much caffeine then.

All my point is that just because he asked about liposuction doesn't mean he hasn't worked hard, because I know he has. He is in awesome shape, especially at 50.

Some may say, although I don't agree, that using M1t and steroids "is only a replacement for poor willpower and lack of dedication".

JerseyDevil · 07-02-2004, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapphire

Aren't we all??

Yeah, read my sig.

**Prince** · 07-02-2004, 12:39 PM

there are situations where lipo is the only solution, they are cases where someone was morbidly obese and they lost all of that fat they can, but still have pockets of bf that will not budge, and cases where someone has gotten as lean as possible (from a health stand point) but still have areas of adipose tissue (typically females).

but those lazy ass people that are fat that just do not want to eat right and work-out are absolutely pathetic! the one's you see on Extreme Make Over make me sick! they are just looking for a short-cut, plain and simple.

brodus · 07-02-2004, 12:54 PM

Yeah, I'm not trying to be an ass...I just know in my own life I benefitted a lot when a coach or mentor said "you have more talent than this, quit being lazy, etc."

I am aware that lipo is a beneficial surgery for the morbidly obese, as are many other very extreme solutions.

And kdwa1, I think I just used your post as a springboard for a larger argument about societal trends that drive me nuts...kudos on sticking to a program and working hard...if everyone had your approach, the world would be a better place.

I am aware of the M1T/PH-as-shortcuts argument, and I agree to a point, but I'll say that popping M1T and sitting at home won't do much for you...you need to put in the sweat equity, period...and you need a foundation of training in order to have receptor development/sensitivity to reap the positive effects. I think there is a big difference between supplementation and elective, invasive surgery.

brodus · 07-02-2004, 12:56 PM

Hey, and kudos to Prince for establishing a forum like this where we can share knowledge, vent our frustrations, sympathize with problems, and find solutions...maybe there is hope for this society after all!

**Prince** · 07-02-2004, 01:04 PM

the thing that the general public is severly misunderstood about is steroids do NOT make an athlete or a champion! steroids are just one tool pro athletes use to be the very best.

all pro bodybuilders are pros because they are genetically gifted (like any great athlete is), motivated, driven, willing to bust their ass to be the best they can, extremely disciplined and overall mentally and physically superior to the average person.

if steroids were eliminated from sports the same athletes would still be the best, they just would not perform at the same level, or in regards to bodybuilding they would not be as big, that is all. the average joe would still have no chance of competing against them.

now, there are great natural bodybuilders that choose not to take steroids who would then be able to compete at the IFBB pro level, but again these are genetically gifted individuals, the ones that start training and in 6 months everyone thinks they're taking drugs.

I think it's funny when people say "yeah I could look like those guys in the mags if I took all of those drug", yeah right. My response is "yeah, and you could also be a pro NFL quarterback if you wanted to be too, right?"

brodus · 07-02-2004, 02:47 PM

Agreed-->roids may have pushed personal bests up a few notches, but that's like chrome dressing on a hot rod...drugs or no, you have to have a hot rod to start with, someone that knows how to handle it, and the dedication to use it properly.

And the amount of motivation it takes to overcome M1T blues and workout just as hard is very large!

JerseyDevil · 07-02-2004, 08:43 PM

A very experienced juicer I know explains it like this...

"If you weren't shit before taking steroids, then you won't be shit after taking steroids". Short, concise and to the point

.

kdwa1 · 07-02-2004, 10:22 PM

Hi Robert,I just want to ask you what you think about spot lipo work to get rid of as you say tissue that is stuck.Is it relatively safe or are there adverse side effects? Thanks Kevin

JLB001 · 07-02-2004, 10:28 PM

I'm no lazy ass, I'd consider doing lipo on the insides of my legs and those pesty saddle bags that WILL NOT go away, no matter how lean I get. And don't go off saying I must not b

06-21-2004, 08:40 AM	#1
kdwa1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Asia Posts: 303	Abdominal Liposuction Hello everyone, Iv'e been trying like crazy to lose abdominal fat for many years without the results that I want.I doing the carb cycling and am on a very low GI diet.Now as a last resort I'm considering doing Liposuction for the mid abdomin and love handles.I'm 6"4" and weigh about 180 lbs.50 years old and in pretty good shape.Just want a better contour. Has anyone done this or have any info or suggestions? Actually I thought about it years ago but was concerned about the possible negative results and danger. Now after so many years, Iv'e reached the point where I have to get rid of the extra flab.Feedback appreciated.Thanks Kevin
	Live Well- Live Long- Keep Rockin

06-21-2004, 12:51 PM	#3
brodus Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 945	6'4" @ 180 and you need liposuction?! I'm 5'11" w/ abs @ 200 and by no means large-->you must be a really skinny guy-->I can't believe you'd need lipo. Have you tried any of the Avant Labs products, like Lipo-derm Ultra or Ab-Solved? I find it impossible to believe that the only solution for you is surgery, which brings it's own problems and insane costs. What do you do for working out? Have you ever consindered that maybe since it didn't get your ab fat off that the diet and carb-fixation you've been on doesn't work? People on low-GI diets normally don't have the endurance necessary to work out to the level that produces results...then they pop all kinds of stims and stuff to make up for it...it's a bottomless pit. I run into this all of the time--bottom line is people that train like athletes, end up looking like athletes, regardless of what they eat (I know I'm about to get flamed by the diet masters here, but I ask you if you've ever been on a college sports team, and if you know what we eat, and look like). The thermo and bio-physics of lipolysis aren't on a sliding scale, they are universal fomulas-->if you burn more than you eat, you lose weight, period. If you train like someone who has a six pack, you will to. Don't take advice from people who are selling surgeries, diets, books, supplements, etc. Look at what athletes do and copy them.
	Graham Cousens Band My Space http://www.flymantell.com http://www.bifunkal.com http://www.livebandkaraokechicago.com http://www.worldclassnoise.com

06-22-2004, 11:12 AM	#4
kdwa1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Asia Posts: 303	Thanks Guys, I'll try to keep it short and simple.Iv'e been working out often heavy all my life and was an extremely avid surfer for many years while living in Hawaii.Believe it or not my body weight was even as low as 160 lbs when I used to surf every day for 3-5 hours but I still had some mid section flab. Now I'm in the gym about three times a week doing the weights and some swimming.I'm on the low GI and carb routine. Iv'e used many bottles of the ab solve with limited effect although I do like the product.Iv'e also done the pro hormone cycles with 1-ad and 1-test. I eat three meals and drink two every day and maintain 50g's of protein per meal for a total of about 250 g's per day. I don't eat dairy or junk.And no beer.The rest of my physic is ripped and cut but a soft stomach.I admit I don't do much cardio but my training is steady.All work no play. The three days is about all I can pull due too a heavy work schedule.Where do I go from here? It does look easy just to have it removed. Oh and my measurements are chest 42",bi's 15" flexed,waist 36",hips 38",legs are a bit twiggy but strong. Usually if I do manage to burn alot of the ab fat I also lose my ass in the process.Not cool,right? Life's a beach.Thanks Kevin
	Live Well- Live Long- Keep Rockin

06-23-2004, 11:53 AM	#6
kdwa1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Asia Posts: 303	I think it also depends on the bone structure.I have a medium frame and not alot of density.In high school I hit about 205 lbs. Was a skinny vegetarian for several years after then managed to get the weight back up after eating normal again.I grew up drinking tons of milk and eating anything so got the infamous tire.I new guys in Hawaii who surfed all the time and were solid but then again there are alot of twigs in the surfing world too.But no fat.So ??? Who knows.Once we get the fat deposits they just don't go away unless we do max cardio and train like an animal but at 50 it's hard to keep up such an intense routine.Are you in California? Thanks for the feedback.
	Live Well- Live Long- Keep Rockin

06-23-2004, 11:54 AM	#7
kdwa1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Asia Posts: 303	Oh sorry no pics at this time but may post in future.
	Live Well- Live Long- Keep Rockin

06-21-2004, 09:29 AM	#2
Rauschgift Sancho Join Date: May 2004 Location: So-Cal Posts: 177	Have you thought about testosterone therapy first? At age 50 your test is going to be pretty low which in turn makes it more difficult to increase LBM. Basically what I am saying is before I would go under the knife I would try every other avenue of approach first. Also, you mentioned about your diet but said nothing about working out. Do you workout?

06-22-2004, 11:22 AM	#5
Rauschgift Sancho Join Date: May 2004 Location: So-Cal Posts: 177	Wow I just noticed your height and weight. Something does not add up correctly. I too am 6'4" but I weigh 260 with about 12% bf, I also surf 5-6 days a week. I am having a hard time picturing you with a flabby belly at that weight. Is there any chance you could post a pic so we have a better understanding of what we are working with? Were you ever extremely overweight at one time?

06-23-2004, 12:10 PM	#8
brodus Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 945	I think without cardio, you're never going to lose it...even if you pay out your ass for liposuction, it's gonna come back. No offense, but if its too hard for you to do cardio, you don't deserve to have a six pack, in my book. Liposuction is an easy way out for lazy rich fucks, and it's not even that effective. If you take offense to that, you should, because a lot of us, and a LOT OF PEOPLE OLDER THAN YOU work out like animals because it's who we are, and if you're looking for validation for your lifestyle from people who are in the gym all the time, you're on the wrong board. On the other hand, the only person I've ever seen who was 180 @ 6'4" was bone rail skinny...so I'm still a little skeptical, no offense....Like I said, I'm 5 inches shorter, 20 pounds heavier, and I have abs.
	Graham Cousens Band My Space http://www.flymantell.com http://www.bifunkal.com http://www.livebandkaraokechicago.com http://www.worldclassnoise.com

06-23-2004, 01:27 PM	#9
Rauschgift Sancho Join Date: May 2004 Location: So-Cal Posts: 177	Well if I were you I would really try packing on some muscle. If your going to do cardio stick with HIIT and focus on the weights. As far as Lipo is concerned I wouldn't do it but that's a decision you'll have to make. Also, if you make your chest bigger your stomach wont look so big.

06-24-2004, 12:13 AM	#10
kdwa1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Asia Posts: 303	Well I'm definitely not rich,but I do feel frustrated after years of "training like an animal" as you so well put it Brodus.I do have to agree with you that cardio is an important factor to burn off excess fat as well as diet and lifting. I'm only posing the question of Liposuction as a possible alternative on this board out of curiosity,and lack of knowledge. I know it's somewhat risky and possibly as you say the lazy persons way to the six pack.But some of us do have a very real issue with our body fat that doesn't just simply melt away with cardio.We need to diet all the time and as soon as we eat anything over the limit we gain it back immediatedly.We aren't all pro bodybuliders training like animals everyday.We have families and other responsibilities. Not everyone has a large maxed out physic, and who cares if someone is a bit skinny.Guys who place all their confidence on their size are abit silly in my book.We all have ego and want to look good but macho arrogant pride is another thing.Besides most of the muscled out big boys can't surf for shit and only can get up on long boards if at all. OK so maybe Liposuction isn't a good alternative and possibly a stupid one.But it has worked for many people. So if I don't take that road,then what do you suggest? Eat lots of carbs,train all the time,and do prohormones? Hasn't anyone noticed that after a certain age your body doesn't build very fast, recovery is slower,and fat is stored easily?? On a final note,alot of guys have naturally good physics so it's much easier for them to build and rip.Some of us train to live longer and look better but can never really get the body we want, others train to max out the muscle mass having the natural physics and they get exactly what they want.However like it or not we all have natural limitations.Some of us more than others.Personally Iv'e tried for years to get the illusive perfect body to no avail. So the question of Lipo came up as it has for many.And I do disagree with you Brodus that there isn't a place for this conversation on these boards. You have a right to your very macho opinion but it is a real issue here.All I'm asking for are ideas and alternatives before I possibly make the wrong choice out of frustration. Hey Rauschgift,I'll work on the chest. :smile:
	Live Well- Live Long- Keep Rockin

07-02-2004, 12:49 AM	#11
Sara Valentine Back and ready to go! Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ontario Posts: 40 Photos: 1	Hi kdwa1 Just read this thread and thought I'd throw this out there. Are you aware that lipo only takes the surface fat out and that the underlaying fat causing the bloated or semi-pot belly look will still be there? And even if you do end up doing lipo and get rid of some fat, you still need to train your abs to get that 6pack look your looking for? Also, with lipo you might get rid of surface fat cells from the area you're having problems with, but chances are that it'll come back and in a different spot so then you would have to deal with that issue. And with every surgery there is down time which might not help you in the look so badly desire. As it means more time sitting on your rear end when you could've been in the gym or tweaking you diet to help your quest. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I'm just trying to point out that surgery isn't the quick fix people think it is and a lot of times these things could be corrected with a little extra work instead of the extra money and downtime of surgery. But that just my opinion.
	Those who fail are those who fail to dream

07-02-2004, 11:30 AM	#14
brodus Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 945	All I'm saying is that I don't believe anyone needs liposuction, and that it is only a replacement for poor willpower and lack of dedication...if that seems harsh, well, too bad...a lot of things in life are harsh...running until you puke is harsh, but I like to do it...People pay big money to watch professional athletes engage in "harsh" activities they wish they could do...we live in an era of thin-skinned pseudo-adults (my term, meaning post-adolescents conditioned to believe they've matured, yet traditional (read: pre-post-modern revisionist) theories of adult development would say they've not yet reached the "Adult" stage) who are afraid of facing reality and owning up to where they are and what they are thinking in life, and are conditioned to look for external reasons for things they are instrinsically able to resolve on their own. If you think I am wrong...well, that's just too bad..there are a billion modern examples of this...If modern approaches to self-help, counselling, training, dieting, ETC. AD INFINITUM are working, why is our culture FATTER, DUMBER, and more PSYCHOLOGICALLY FUCKED than ever before? With all of the books, TV shows, personal trainers, etc., you'd think we'd have our problems licked? But this little thing called dedication and motivation, which you cannot purchase, package, resell, or prescribe, just is in short supply....everyone wants to get an A on the test, but only A-students deserve it for the work they put in...everything in life is the same. I personally believe we are on the last chapter of the modern Western experiment (in fact, in our rush for self-definiton and our obsession with pre-historical influence on history, we've run out of terms to call our generations, now settling at "post-modern," which isn't even a definition), and before I am dead, we will witness a collapse of this modern Babylon...but I digress something fierce. Sorry for the rant...really, it's not roid rage! (okay my earlier post was, though!)
	Graham Cousens Band My Space http://www.flymantell.com http://www.bifunkal.com http://www.livebandkaraokechicago.com http://www.worldclassnoise.com

07-02-2004, 12:30 PM	#15
kdwa1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Asia Posts: 303	I'm back, and Thanks for all the input,even the guy with the tough edge.Actually Brodus I'm taking your advice and training harder,especially cardio which Iv'e been a bit slack on.I agree 100% that cardio is one of the keys.We do tend to get a bit lazy with it sometimes. I'm also on the GI diet which is low fat and low GI carbs.It feels alot more normal than on the low or no carb Atkins approach and the carb cycling regime.I eat my carbs mostly in the morning and mid day.If I need to burn up extra fat calories I lower the overall caloric intake for a couple days.Also going a bit more moderate on the protein. As far as abs are concerned, I do a couple hundred crunches etc. about three times a week.I feel better so won't consider doing Lipo in the near future and probably never Thanks to all the feedback from you people. Does anyone have anything they want to add on calorie control,fat intake and the GI diet? I'd be interested to hear your ideas. Kevin , Cheers! :smile:
	Live Well- Live Long- Keep Rockin

07-02-2004, 12:33 PM	#16
kdwa1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Asia Posts: 303	OK guys I got the smilie figured out,Duu. Everyone have a great day and keep pumping.Stay cool.
	Live Well- Live Long- Keep Rockin

07-02-2004, 12:39 PM	#19
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 34,179 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 322	there are situations where lipo is the only solution, they are cases where someone was morbidly obese and they lost all of that fat they can, but still have pockets of bf that will not budge, and cases where someone has gotten as lean as possible (from a health stand point) but still have areas of adipose tissue (typically females). but those lazy ass people that are fat that just do not want to eat right and work-out are absolutely pathetic! the one's you see on Extreme Make Over make me sick! they are just looking for a short-cut, plain and simple.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System. FREE SHIPPING ON ALL ORDERS AT IRONMAGLABS!

07-02-2004, 12:54 PM	#20
brodus Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 945	Yeah, I'm not trying to be an ass...I just know in my own life I benefitted a lot when a coach or mentor said "you have more talent than this, quit being lazy, etc." I am aware that lipo is a beneficial surgery for the morbidly obese, as are many other very extreme solutions. And kdwa1, I think I just used your post as a springboard for a larger argument about societal trends that drive me nuts...kudos on sticking to a program and working hard...if everyone had your approach, the world would be a better place. I am aware of the M1T/PH-as-shortcuts argument, and I agree to a point, but I'll say that popping M1T and sitting at home won't do much for you...you need to put in the sweat equity, period...and you need a foundation of training in order to have receptor development/sensitivity to reap the positive effects. I think there is a big difference between supplementation and elective, invasive surgery.
	Graham Cousens Band My Space http://www.flymantell.com http://www.bifunkal.com http://www.livebandkaraokechicago.com http://www.worldclassnoise.com

07-02-2004, 12:56 PM	#21
brodus Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 945	Hey, and kudos to Prince for establishing a forum like this where we can share knowledge, vent our frustrations, sympathize with problems, and find solutions...maybe there is hope for this society after all!
	Graham Cousens Band My Space http://www.flymantell.com http://www.bifunkal.com http://www.livebandkaraokechicago.com http://www.worldclassnoise.com

07-02-2004, 01:04 PM	#22
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 34,179 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 322	the thing that the general public is severly misunderstood about is steroids do NOT make an athlete or a champion! steroids are just one tool pro athletes use to be the very best. all pro bodybuilders are pros because they are genetically gifted (like any great athlete is), motivated, driven, willing to bust their ass to be the best they can, extremely disciplined and overall mentally and physically superior to the average person. if steroids were eliminated from sports the same athletes would still be the best, they just would not perform at the same level, or in regards to bodybuilding they would not be as big, that is all. the average joe would still have no chance of competing against them. now, there are great natural bodybuilders that choose not to take steroids who would then be able to compete at the IFBB pro level, but again these are genetically gifted individuals, the ones that start training and in 6 months everyone thinks they're taking drugs. I think it's funny when people say "yeah I could look like those guys in the mags if I took all of those drug", yeah right. My response is "yeah, and you could also be a pro NFL quarterback if you wanted to be too, right?"
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System. FREE SHIPPING ON ALL ORDERS AT IRONMAGLABS!

07-02-2004, 02:47 PM	#23
brodus Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 945	Agreed-->roids may have pushed personal bests up a few notches, but that's like chrome dressing on a hot rod...drugs or no, you have to have a hot rod to start with, someone that knows how to handle it, and the dedication to use it properly. And the amount of motivation it takes to overcome M1T blues and workout just as hard is very large!
	Graham Cousens Band My Space http://www.flymantell.com http://www.bifunkal.com http://www.livebandkaraokechicago.com http://www.worldclassnoise.com

07-02-2004, 08:43 PM	#24
JerseyDevil GO Buckeyes! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern, NJ Posts: 5,185	A very experienced juicer I know explains it like this... "If you weren't shit before taking steroids, then you won't be shit after taking steroids". Short, concise and to the point .

07-02-2004, 10:22 PM	#25
kdwa1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Asia Posts: 303	Hi Robert,I just want to ask you what you think about spot lipo work to get rid of as you say tissue that is stuck.Is it relatively safe or are there adverse side effects? Thanks Kevin
	Live Well- Live Long- Keep Rockin

07-02-2004, 10:28 PM	#26
JLB001 I see YOU!! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 8,293 Photos: 5	I'm no lazy ass, I'd consider doing lipo on the insides of my legs and those pesty saddle bags that WILL NOT go away, no matter how lean I get. And don't go off saying I must not b