IainDaniel

My EEG was was just a regular one with out sleep deprivation.

Yeah once my EEG came back with no abnormalities. I was basically left alone. So no MRI was needed according to my docs.

Good ole Canadian Health Care System

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan

Trouble

I think I might have it, at least a damn reasonable explanation.

As you've already noted, its connected to sedentary periods of elevated stress.

Read this, keeping in mind that you may have brief periods of what we call anoxia, and also, due to circulatory issues, mildly hyperosmotic states, in your case, you've got mapping in a particular portion of the brain, that elicits this response. My educated guess is that you've got a transient or permanent "cold spot" in local neurochemical action and probably blood supply as well. Too small to be seen on an electroencephalogram, and because its transient, its not likely to show up anyway, even if it was a large enough anology to be discernable within the spectral resolution of the detection method.

http://www.stress-cocchi.net/Other21.htm


So here is the recipe for control that I'd like to suggest:

One. Regular cardio exercise - daily. Once at least, twice preferred..and in this case one of those is a moderately paced walk. Attention paid to breathing regulation.

Two. Hourly breathing practice, as in belly breathing, nice slow evenly paced breath by filling first the belly, then the chest -- but NOT forced breathing. We want to disconnect the solar plexus stimulation of NE in the hypothalamus, and reduce the viscious cycle of stress response cause and effect (breath holding, pretty sure you do this, ID).

Third, I want you to consider taurine as regular supplement. It should help with the vasoconstriction issues and also act as an osmoregulatory buffer. Even out funciton in that cold spot.

Fourth, this is a GABAnergic issue, and I'd like you to try theanine as an adjunct supplement, primarily in the afternoon and evening. You'll have to play with dose and timing.

Do this, and I think you will find this annoying problem will cease.

I'd like you to report back here, to this thread, on occasion to update progress if any, let us see how this regimine works.

If it does, nice thing is, folk will find it when they do a google search, and others might benefit as well.

How does this sound to you? Do-able?

IainDaniel

So basically you think it might be a circulation problem with a lack oxygen getting to a particular portion of the brain that controls smells. Isn't the brain sensitive to oxygen deprivation? Should I have any future concerns ie. Strokes? So the stress is Sleep Deprevation. What would cause this?

Although I am not in Top notch Shape, I would like to consider myself fairly active. Between Ball Hockey, Ice Hockey, Sporadic Workouts, Family Evening walks, and keeping up with a 2 yo who is obessed with every sport. With that said I will try to include more Cardio. What is meant by attention paid to breathing Regulation?

http://www.paniccure.com/Approaches/..._Breathing.htm

Breath holding?

Taurine shouldn't be a problem as I used to use it with Creatine supplementation.

L-theanine I will have to look into, as we have some whacky custom regulation with regards to aminos, I think individual aminos used to be banned in Canada for sale. Would Green Tea or White Tea or an extract provide a sufficient amount?

It sounds fine, nothing out of the ordinary. Why would of the Phantom Smells dissapeared for a year? and return around the same time in the year again?

Allergy?

Thanks Trouble.

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan

Trouble

> Isn't the brain sensitive to oxygen deprivation?

Yes, but the degree of sensitivity (how much depression in dissolved gas concentration, plus a lack of glucose and other energy sources) is controversial. Understanding is still being hammered out in the biomedical literature.

If there is advanced knowledge of this phenomenon, perhaps someone else will chime in and enlighten us. That would be most useful and appreciated. In its absence, I have to use knowledge and intuition to provide you with an explanation and a potential means of resolution.

> Should I have any future concerns ie. Strokes?

Thats the provence of medical professionals. It lies beyond the scope of this forum to sort out larger medical issues and consequences. BP regulation would be part of the equations, as well as cardiovascular disease..and insulin effect on NOS, ion and water regulation in individuals tissues and kidneys (several mechanisms at play here), plus blood lipid / clotting factors.

>So the stress is Sleep Deprevation. What would cause this?

Excess stress, unconscious breath holding...changes in localized neurochemistry from stress or its secondary effects on glutamine, taurine, calcium and other ions.

Stress effects are somewhat ccumulative. As you mention, there are seasonal effects (allergies), changes in time management, changes in light levels and ambient temperatures, both of which affect melatonin and sleep directly (Circadian Rhythms) and autocrine response less directly.

>What is meant by attention paid to breathing Regulation?

http://www.paniccure.com/Approaches/..._Breathing.htm

Breath holding?

Yes sir. Reflexive, unconscious, habitual.

>L-theanine I will have to look into, as we have some whacky custom regulation with regards to aminos, I think individual aminos used to be banned in Canada for sale. Would Green Tea or White Tea or an extract provide a sufficient amount?

We had an interesting thread on green tea, back in Feb at Mind and Muscle. I recommended the Japanse approach of grinding the tea for maximum theanine liberation, and several forum members found this worked beautifully.

Green tea has many bioactive constitutents. Antioxidant, blood thinner, also I believe its a vasodilator (could be wrong). Also has cAMP action. High doses are controversial (long story with liver microsomal cytochrome P450s).

Can you order GABA? Small doses during the day might be beneficial as well.

>Why would of the Phantom Smells dissapeared for a year? and return around the same time in the year again? Allergy?

*shrug* My oricular talents only go so far...you're guess is as good as mine, since you know more of the changes in life circumstances relevant here.

Could be allergies, they are involved in the immune response to seasonal pollens and molds. Do you have problems with allergies? Are you tired? Feeling a lack of energy?

Could be that what is causing your phantom smell is also kicking up your allergies, if you have them (stress loading effect), or it could be that its the kicker (incremental additional stress factor) that pushes you over a response threshold.

(you're welcome ID).

IainDaniel

Nothing has really changed in my life, well other than my little guy . Thinking about it; Stress could be a factor, as it was shortly after his first seizure when these symptons first began, however there has been nothing recently to cause the return.

Will try to incorporate this more. why would breath holding just become a factor now, or is it a combination of effects?

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/i...c=22657&hl=tea

good read. Thanks Can't believe I missed that when it first started

All I can really find is info on providing a deeper sleep, and increased GH release during the night. Most dosing protocols I have read are a few grams before bed.

What are you thinking with smaller doses through out the day?

Most of my allergies haven't been the same since I was a kid, and they were hayfever so late summer allergies.

Lethargy and a lack of energy have been a problem since the beginning of April, I had a trade show in British Columbia and my flight was scheduled with the clock moving forward. Ever since then my sleep patterns have been different. Used to be an early bird, now I don't want to get outta bed in the AM. You would think Jet lag would be over with by now

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan

Trouble

>Thinking about it; Stress could be a factor, as it was shortly after his first seizure when these symptons first began, however there has been nothing recently to cause the return.

Any chance you're using a whey protein product with extra glutamine added?

>What are you thinking with smaller doses (of GABA) through out the day?

Because it acts as both an agonist and antagonist to various receptors. You want the calming effects, so the lower, periodic dose is a better idea. If you feel energized, you're taking too much.


>Lethargy and a lack of energy have been a problem since the beginning of April

If you live in an area where fruit trees bloom, these are the telltale allergy side effects. As far as the jetlag, I concur, you should have been recovered long ago.

And that leaves poor adaptation to change in light levels, a long shot.

Sorry, I can't see a ready trigger, unless your current stress levels are preventing proper sleep phasing and adequate rest.

Unless its your whey protein that triggering it. Now that's more like it, in terms of probabilty as catalyst for your condition. Might want to list your supps for us, jest to make sure theres not another chemical trigger.

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/i...howtopic=23615

IainDaniel

Interesting thread.

Current supps.

Optimum Nutrition 100% whey. Been using this for the past 3-4 years
Multi-Vit
Fish Oil 6-9 grams
(just started these four weeks ago)
Sesamin
Designer Supps Melting Point. 8 a day
Designer Supps Basic Cuts 2-4 a day
Ergolean AMP (Occasionally) maybe like once every couple of weeks

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan

Trouble

Ahhh. Now we are getting somewhere.

Ergolean AMP, Meltpoint, Basic Cuts.

Bodytype, adipose percentage (estimated), water retention tendency, and blood sugar control (hypoglycemic? family history of diabetes?) - brief description please. Also duration of use of each of these supps.

Potent cAMP inducers / stimulants... Bingo.

You may be over-stimulating your brain. (no wisecracks from the peanut gallergy, please)

Quesion: what were you using the last time the phantom smell symptoms occured? Were you doing seasonal cutting for the summer? Month or more into a cutting phase?

IainDaniel

Bodytype somewhere between Meso-Endo
BF% around 17%
Water Retention- I would say high, but that is diet dependant
Blood sugar control - no issues that are know, and none in my family history

Multi vit, fishoil, and Whey Protein are regulars.

Sesamin, Melting Point, and Basic cuts just started around 4 weeks ago.

AMP was only purchased as a stimulant to use for a 24 hr drive to FLA.


Yes a seasonal cut was occuring. Just Fish oil, Multi, and Whey. I typically don't use Stimulants. Previous bad experiences with Ephedrine and Caffiene.

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan

Trouble

Gotcha.

Not the Ergolean (although it might have added to the problem).

Have you used MP and Basic Cuts before?

What did you use on your last cutting cycle (Spring 05)?

Whadday think? I see a possible correlation, along with a moderately high stress load/lack of sleep last year and sleep abnormalities this year.

Sleep problems from the supps? Of something else.

ON Whey, they don't add glutamine to it, right?

IainDaniel

.

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan

Trouble

> last cutting cycle (Spring 05)? Just a semi decent diet.

>Ephedrine and Caffiene? if so, the problem was mood and attitude related, very irratible

Did they cause sleep interruption? Did you use them last Spring? Sorry to be obtuse here, but I need you to be quite clear.

>Just over 4 grams of Glutamine and precusors

How many servings per day? More than two?

Do you recall having similar sleep problems the last time these symptoms occured?

Could have different triggering events. Otherwise, I can only suggest you try the supps suggested...and perhaps consider dropping the MP for the time being. I will talk to TP about the Basic Cuts to see if it might be problematic for you to use.

Are you still having sleep problems? Phantom smell symptoms?

IainDaniel

.

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan

Trouble

OK, you have a problematic threshold NE stimulation issue (negative symptoms for indirect beta-adrenergic stimulation). Exnay with any known NE stimulants. Take a look at 7-keto DHEA as an alternative; use at night.

You have commonality with sleep problems, different causes. First time, kid-related stress and disrupted sleep. Second time, sleep pattern disruption starts with convention, somewhere along the line, marathon road trip and use of known ephedrine-like stimulants, coupled with cAMP inducers (which should not, by the way, be used longterm, most of us are thinking its better to cycle them). If you are having problems with fluid retention from the MP, I would consider it further correlation of its likelihood as a contributor to your condition.

You occasionally bump glutamine intake above a basal threshold, and that results in (perhaps) further aggravation of the excitatory stimulation problem.

Bottom line, enough causal linkage for me to be suspicious of your cutting supps.

You decide on whether to continue use of the cutting supps, I'm merely providing you with a possible explanation and course of action, as promised.

This has certainly been one of the more novel problems I've casually investigated.

IainDaniel

Thanks Trouble, I appreciate the time you put into this.

NE stimulation? Norepinephrine?

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan

Trouble

Correct.

40-yard dash_2

I highly doubt that Basic Cuts is responsible for excessive or over NE stimulation, just because it is a mild stimulant, but let me contact Twin Peak just to be 100% sure.

art@designersupps.com

IainDaniel

Hey Trouble.

What are your thoughts on Migrane Auras? Could this be a cause?

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan

Trouble

See: Benign Migraine Auras

Dunno. Taurine is being evaluated as a treatment / preventative.

IainDaniel

That was what my Family Doc attributed it too (although she didn't seem convinced)

She said to just let it be unless it becomes more serious.

That article doesn't seem to fitting, but I guess there are always exceptions

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan

bandaidwoman

Very unlikely. Most migraine auras involve visual, neurosensory deficits etc. The very rare cases of olefactory hallucinations presenting as migraine aura is almost always followed by the actual migraine headache. Neurologists do not consider this very high in the differential. Once again, sleep deprived EEG, MRI are the usual tests done here to rule out complex partial seizures (the most common cause of phantom smells) and mass and once those are negative we can pursue benign causes like some of the ones Trouble mentioned. But, I also understand the constraints your family doctor is under in Canada.

Official Race Member of the Crank Crushing Rednecks

Eat more mud, mountain bike until you die!

XX Feminine power

IainDaniel

I just don't see that happening unfortunately. Trying to get another Doc to refer me will be impossible, It was hard enough finding another Family doc after the last one moved.

Care to elaborate?

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan