Unexplainable back pain

maniclion · 05-05-2006, 07:08 PM

So for 5 month's now I have been going to an orthopedist trying to find out what is wrong with my back. After xray's, MRI's, bone scans, EMG's, traction and SI/epidural injections my doctor still can't find where the problem is. I keep mentioning to him that I have a lump like a cyst right next to my L2 so he has finally decided to do an mri focusing on that, but he wants to send me to a rheumatologist if he can't find anything significant there.

My symptoms are that if I sleep on my right side at night I wake up with major pain in my back across my right hip and in the top of my right glute, if I sleep on the left side I have less pain in those areas but pain in the back of my right leg and in the outside of my right ankle when I get out of bed. When I drive the constant pressing of the gas, brake and clutch starts to aggravate the pain. In physical therapy traction face up and face down aggravated the pain. At that point he thought it must be the SI joint so he scheduled a cortisone injection, then at the last minute decided to do an epidural on the L5/S1 at the same time. After 4 days of soreness from the shot I started to feel like there was less pain in my leg and then a few days more no pain in my leg or glute just in my back to the top of my hip and across the hip. This lasted about 2 and a half weeks and now the pain is starting to come back with a vengeance.

Any of you docs or wannabe docs have any ideas or similar experiences?

**P-funk** · 05-05-2006, 07:41 PM

sciatica?

maniclion · 05-05-2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

sciatica?

Well duh

Thats an all incompassing term for "something is wrong with the nerve in your back that runs down your butt to your toe". The cause can be any number of factors from bulged disc to the mysterious SI joint moving too much.

**P-funk** · 05-05-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maniclion

Well duh

Thats an all incompassing term for "something is wrong with the nerve in your back that runs down your butt to your toe". The cause can be any number of factors from bulged disc to the mysterious SI joint moving too much.

stretch....your piriformis. a lot!

foam roll, your piriformis....a lot!

maniclion · 05-05-2006, 08:14 PM

The doc also tossed out some (spondioliolosisis) or somethign I couldn't quite pronounce that he said he would have the rheumatologist look at.

maniclion · 05-05-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

stretch....your piriformis. a lot!

foam roll, your piriformis....a lot!

I can stretch it all I want doesn't really help or worsen, but if I put a roll under it the pressure aggravates the pain. That's why I think there has to be a bone spur or cyst or something under there that is pushing the disc or the small piece that sticks out from the disc into my nerve.

Trouble · 05-05-2006, 09:34 PM

When you skeep on your side at night..have you tried a soft sort roll, maybe a rolled up towel to support your spine laterally and keep the pinch from occuring on the opposite side of flexion?

I had a severe lateral subluxation of the lumbar region, the only lasting damage from a spectacular SUV rollover accident about 5 yrs ago. That damage has never been quite fully resolved, and its as you describe. I've used core strengthening exercises to help, as chiropractic manual repositiioning failed to maintain correct lateral spine position - correction came too late after the injury (muicho torn muscle had to heal first before I could tolerate manual manipulation).

I've also used herbal anti-inflammatories to great effect for reducing chronic inflammation at the injury site, for about six months after the accident. They aren't detrimental (relative to NSAIDs) to liver and kidneys and have been proposed as longterm pain relief for arthritic/ chronic pain relief.

Spondylosis information:

http://www.spineuniverse.com/display...ticle1440.html

greekblondechic · 05-07-2006, 06:03 PM

Trouble, can you tell us more about which exercises you use and which herbal anti-inflammatories? Thanks

Trouble · 05-07-2006, 06:30 PM

New Chapter Zyflammend (using supercritical fluid extraction, SFE technology, for which I pioneered some extraction procols, but not for this product) - cruise around for this product, its carried by various supps retailers

Tumeric extract, cayenne pepper

Glucosamine HCl or Cissus quadrangularis (CNW)

Boswellia extact can be found in a commercial product called 5-Loxin, which purports to block the 5-lipoxyagenase enzyme which plays a role in inflammation response (5-lipooxygenase is a relative of the prostanoid cycloxygenase 2, or COX2). See

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/i...howtopic=23662

Few other herbs/extracts mentioned below
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ABC Submits Letter to the Editor of the WSJ
Regarding Natural Alternatives to Vioxx

In the wake of the recent recall of the popular drug Vioxx due to recent research demonstrating that it can increase the risk of heart disease, there has been a rush by media to cover this story. The Wall St. Journal (WSJ) is one of the many media outlets producing articles on this topic.

On Saturday, October 2, ABC Founder and Executive Director, Mark Blumenthal, was interviewed by WSJ reporter Paul Davies for a story on various natural alternatives in the dietary supplement industry that consumers might use an acceptable substitute for Vioxx (the multibillion dollar pain reliever from Merck). Unfortunately, none of Blumenthal's comments were used in the article published Tuesday, October 5, 2004. As a result, Blumenthal wrote a letter to the editor of the WSJ that has not been published. Additionally, ABC has received no response from the author for repeated requests for a copy of the article.

Vioxx is a known for its primary mechanism of action of inhibiting the enzyme cycloogygenase-2 (COX-2), an enzyme involved in the production of prostaglandins and the resulting inflammatory process. Inhibition of COX-2 is a successful strategy developed recently for pharmaceutical drugs for controlling inflammation and associated pain.

In his interview with the author of the WSJ article, Blumenthal discussed herbs containing compounds with demonstrated COX-2 inhibiting activity, particularly ginger and turmeric. He stated that both these herbs contain compounds that have shown COX-2 inhibiting activity in published research. He also noted that several proprietary herbal dietary supplement formulations intended to help manage inflammatory conditions have included ginger (and/or turmeric) as primary ingredients. He also stressed the safety of these time-honored herbs as foods and spices, noting that turmeric is the spice that gives prepared mustard its bright yellow color.

One of the specific products he mentioned is Zyflammend (New Chapter Inc., Brattleboro, VT), a proprietary combination of carbon dioxide extracts of ginger, turmeric, rosemary, green tea and other herbs with Cox-2 inhibiting and antioxidant activities. He also mentioned a Danish formulation made from ginger root and galangal root (Alpinia galangal, an herb in the ginger family), which has been shown effective in treating pain and symptoms of osteoarthritis of the knee in at least one clinical trial. The Danish formulation is imported into the U.S. by several companies, including Enzymatic Therapy (Green Bay, WI) under the trade name FlexAgilityTM in health food stores, and EV.EXT 77 (the original Danish product name) also sold under that name in the U.S. under the PhytoPharmica line in independent pharmacies and by various health care practitioners.

Blumenthal also mentioned the well-known benefits and safety of glucosamine sulfate for providing relief from osteoarthritic conditions. In a follow up email this morning, Blumenthal also noted the potential benefits and COX-2 inhibiting effects of boswellia (Boswellia serrata) and compounds derived from it (e.g., boswellin), found in many Ayurvedic herbal formulations. Blumenthal also mentioned that many generic ginger and turmeric herbal products would probably offer some valued assistance to consumers suffering from pain and swelling associated with various types of arthritis, but that most of these products have not been subject to controlled clinical trials to test and document their benefits in this area.

October 5, 2004
Letters to the Editor
The Wall Street Journal
200 Liberty Street
New York, NY 10281

Trouble · 05-09-2006, 10:18 AM

Greekblondchic and Maniclion - lets do the unorthodox tango, and try a combination of natural products (local and systemic) for the spinal issues.

I tried this, and it sure does seem to work. YMMV, but its worth a try.

http://www.herballegacy.com/id508.htm

05-05-2006, 07:08 PM	#1
maniclion Catalyst Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hawaii, selling munitions for the war on EcoTerror Posts: 17,660 Photos: 10	Unexplainable back pain So for 5 month's now I have been going to an orthopedist trying to find out what is wrong with my back. After xray's, MRI's, bone scans, EMG's, traction and SI/epidural injections my doctor still can't find where the problem is. I keep mentioning to him that I have a lump like a cyst right next to my L2 so he has finally decided to do an mri focusing on that, but he wants to send me to a rheumatologist if he can't find anything significant there. My symptoms are that if I sleep on my right side at night I wake up with major pain in my back across my right hip and in the top of my right glute, if I sleep on the left side I have less pain in those areas but pain in the back of my right leg and in the outside of my right ankle when I get out of bed. When I drive the constant pressing of the gas, brake and clutch starts to aggravate the pain. In physical therapy traction face up and face down aggravated the pain. At that point he thought it must be the SI joint so he scheduled a cortisone injection, then at the last minute decided to do an epidural on the L5/S1 at the same time. After 4 days of soreness from the shot I started to feel like there was less pain in my leg and then a few days more no pain in my leg or glute just in my back to the top of my hip and across the hip. This lasted about 2 and a half weeks and now the pain is starting to come back with a vengeance. Any of you docs or wannabe docs have any ideas or similar experiences?

05-05-2006, 07:41 PM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,374	sciatica?
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-07-2006, 06:03 PM	#8
greekblondechic I'm special :) Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 7,792	Trouble, can you tell us more about which exercises you use and which herbal anti-inflammatories? Thanks
	I can do it I WILL be a size 5.

05-07-2006, 06:30 PM	#9
Trouble Anti-mediocrity Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On Loan From A Distant Star System Posts: 2,080 Photos: 2	Natural COX2 Inhibitor New Chapter Zyflammend (using supercritical fluid extraction, SFE technology, for which I pioneered some extraction procols, but not for this product) - cruise around for this product, its carried by various supps retailers Tumeric extract, cayenne pepper Glucosamine HCl or Cissus quadrangularis (CNW) Boswellia extact can be found in a commercial product called 5-Loxin, which purports to block the 5-lipoxyagenase enzyme which plays a role in inflammation response (5-lipooxygenase is a relative of the prostanoid cycloxygenase 2, or COX2). See http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/i...howtopic=23662 Few other herbs/extracts mentioned below ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ABC Submits Letter to the Editor of the WSJ Regarding Natural Alternatives to Vioxx In the wake of the recent recall of the popular drug Vioxx due to recent research demonstrating that it can increase the risk of heart disease, there has been a rush by media to cover this story. The Wall St. Journal (WSJ) is one of the many media outlets producing articles on this topic. On Saturday, October 2, ABC Founder and Executive Director, Mark Blumenthal, was interviewed by WSJ reporter Paul Davies for a story on various natural alternatives in the dietary supplement industry that consumers might use an acceptable substitute for Vioxx (the multibillion dollar pain reliever from Merck). Unfortunately, none of Blumenthal's comments were used in the article published Tuesday, October 5, 2004. As a result, Blumenthal wrote a letter to the editor of the WSJ that has not been published. Additionally, ABC has received no response from the author for repeated requests for a copy of the article. Vioxx is a known for its primary mechanism of action of inhibiting the enzyme cycloogygenase-2 (COX-2), an enzyme involved in the production of prostaglandins and the resulting inflammatory process. Inhibition of COX-2 is a successful strategy developed recently for pharmaceutical drugs for controlling inflammation and associated pain. In his interview with the author of the WSJ article, Blumenthal discussed herbs containing compounds with demonstrated COX-2 inhibiting activity, particularly ginger and turmeric. He stated that both these herbs contain compounds that have shown COX-2 inhibiting activity in published research. He also noted that several proprietary herbal dietary supplement formulations intended to help manage inflammatory conditions have included ginger (and/or turmeric) as primary ingredients. He also stressed the safety of these time-honored herbs as foods and spices, noting that turmeric is the spice that gives prepared mustard its bright yellow color. One of the specific products he mentioned is Zyflammend (New Chapter Inc., Brattleboro, VT), a proprietary combination of carbon dioxide extracts of ginger, turmeric, rosemary, green tea and other herbs with Cox-2 inhibiting and antioxidant activities. He also mentioned a Danish formulation made from ginger root and galangal root (Alpinia galangal, an herb in the ginger family), which has been shown effective in treating pain and symptoms of osteoarthritis of the knee in at least one clinical trial. The Danish formulation is imported into the U.S. by several companies, including Enzymatic Therapy (Green Bay, WI) under the trade name FlexAgilityTM in health food stores, and EV.EXT 77 (the original Danish product name) also sold under that name in the U.S. under the PhytoPharmica line in independent pharmacies and by various health care practitioners. Blumenthal also mentioned the well-known benefits and safety of glucosamine sulfate for providing relief from osteoarthritic conditions. In a follow up email this morning, Blumenthal also noted the potential benefits and COX-2 inhibiting effects of boswellia (Boswellia serrata) and compounds derived from it (e.g., boswellin), found in many Ayurvedic herbal formulations. Blumenthal also mentioned that many generic ginger and turmeric herbal products would probably offer some valued assistance to consumers suffering from pain and swelling associated with various types of arthritis, but that most of these products have not been subject to controlled clinical trials to test and document their benefits in this area. October 5, 2004 Letters to the Editor The Wall Street Journal 200 Liberty Street New York, NY 10281 Last edited by Trouble : 05-08-2006 at 02:16 PM.

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05-05-2006, 08:14 PM	#5
maniclion Catalyst Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hawaii, selling munitions for the war on EcoTerror Posts: 17,660 Photos: 10	The doc also tossed out some (spondioliolosisis) or somethign I couldn't quite pronounce that he said he would have the rheumatologist look at.

05-05-2006, 09:34 PM	#7
Trouble Anti-mediocrity Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On Loan From A Distant Star System Posts: 2,080 Photos: 2	When you skeep on your side at night..have you tried a soft sort roll, maybe a rolled up towel to support your spine laterally and keep the pinch from occuring on the opposite side of flexion? I had a severe lateral subluxation of the lumbar region, the only lasting damage from a spectacular SUV rollover accident about 5 yrs ago. That damage has never been quite fully resolved, and its as you describe. I've used core strengthening exercises to help, as chiropractic manual repositiioning failed to maintain correct lateral spine position - correction came too late after the injury (muicho torn muscle had to heal first before I could tolerate manual manipulation). I've also used herbal anti-inflammatories to great effect for reducing chronic inflammation at the injury site, for about six months after the accident. They aren't detrimental (relative to NSAIDs) to liver and kidneys and have been proposed as longterm pain relief for arthritic/ chronic pain relief. Spondylosis information: http://www.spineuniverse.com/display...ticle1440.html

05-09-2006, 10:18 AM	#10
Trouble Anti-mediocrity Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On Loan From A Distant Star System Posts: 2,080 Photos: 2	Greekblondchic and Maniclion - lets do the unorthodox tango, and try a combination of natural products (local and systemic) for the spinal issues. I tried this, and it sure does seem to work. YMMV, but its worth a try. http://www.herballegacy.com/id508.htm