Trouble

No, you suppress cholesterol production, through the first step in HMG-CoA hydrodylation by a specific P450 (we've discussed this already). You are also low in bile because bile recovery was eventually inhibited. You make it, but at the expense of cholesterol that is used for making steroids, including thyroid hormone, vitamins A,D, and K. Remember, you tried to drive bodyfat into the ground.

Low blood sugar, not low insulin (these are connected events) will induce epinephrine release, yes.

Not excess dopamine; I think that got depleted eventually as well, through lack of proper polyamine production/absorption in the gut. I could be wrong.

hardasnails1973

You mentioned rice bran for the drink does it have be certain kind like stabilized granules or can it be just like say NOW bran.

Trouble

Now Foods brand rice bran is stabilized. The side of the package specifically makes this claim. Vitanet website carries it and also the Now Foods Oat Bran, at very reasonable prices. I stocked up. Their shipping is very reasonable as well.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Vitanet. They are simply a supplier that carried the brans that I recommend at reasonable cost (couple bucks per package 20 and 14 oz, respectively).

hardasnails1973

There is product called from metagenics that is almost the same exact thing which you gave me the recipe for and its like 40 bucks 15 servings. Since working out more often my body is craving salt like crazy. I have been adding like a 1 tsp of seasalt to my water during my workouts to keep me hydrated. It was not untill I started the salt I notice that I felt more blood rush to the muscle and longer pumps. Before adding the salt to work outs I had no pump no nothing and just felt flat and weak, but now I am much stronger.

One day went to the shore to relax biggest mistake. I was so light headed ,constipated for 3 days later and all i wanted was seasalt. After increasing salt intake I finaly had bowel moment after 3 days. Could this be indicating that I tend need more salt then I am normally take in even though i do not have addisons so to speak, but as long as I can remember dogs just loved to come up and lick me for no reason at all and would not stop. i read this is indication of person that loses salt easily. Is this true or just an old wise tale

Trouble

Adding a little salt to water has been shown to be helpful for autonomic syndrome - postural hypotension (low blood pressure on changing position from laying to standing). Sodium wasting and potassium retention maybe an issue in hypotension.

Did you sweat a lot at the seashore? Dhydration? Too much sun? Remember, it requires a lot of glutathione to counter the effects of UV oxidation in skin. I used to sweat and form crystalline salts on my scalp during heavy manual labor in the summer. A very odd side effect of a similar problem with excessive salt loss. Since I don't sweat much, the salts must have become supersaturated to form these crystals.

No idea on the dog licking theory.

hardasnails1973

Trouble,does TMG break down into glycine because if it does there is no sense getting glycine, but glycine reallly does calm me down for some reason.

Trouble

No, you can take glycine, in small doses. Glycine is structurally similar to gamma-aminobutyric acid; it also has ability to inhibit neurotransmitter signals in the central nervous system (spinal chord). It also is excitatory: promotes hyperexcitability elsewhere. This behaviour occurs at the (NMDA) glutaminergic receptors which are excitatory - in the gut, pancreas and liver/gallbladder.

TMG is eventually metabolized to glycine, yes, but first to DMG, and so it serves other roles in physiological function as well.

hardasnails1973

TRouble this is the best I have been about 2 years, but something just hit me like a ton of bricks. Since I have been taking zinc subliqually and b-6 and still not correcting the deficiency. I did some research and the name pyroluria kept popping up even my EFA red blood cell test noted possible schizophenia and people with pyroluria also have low arachondic acid which i found interesting. One of the biggest things that brought this to attention was that I was born sensitive to loud noise and was taken to severe drs and never given an explanation for it. DO you think I should probe further and seek testing since it is so cheap. Also pyroluria is also associated with aspergners as well which I found fascinating...

I found this study but fucken computer is screwing up
It basically stated that schizophrenic people have a higher level of cell membrane break down and phospholipase A2 in there serums causing altered omega 6 and 3 in blood

Trouble

Are you using P5P or B6. Some people do not convert the cheap commercial form of B6 to the active form.

You ARE being treated with the standard therapy for pyrrole disease, HAN. Its B6 or P5P and zinc.

Testing is..controversial, there are at least 3 different methods, including the Mauve test you are thinking of. I would keep with your current regimine (seeing that it is working) and proceed on the basis of how you feel and perform, rather than worrying about bases we already have covered.

hardasnails1973

i am using p5p from source naturals its 25 mgs sublingual I still not have no dream recall I am using 50 mgs p5p 3 times a day with everything else. If one runs out of p5p for a few days could you actually go in relapse that quick ? I ran out for 3 days and It felt like some one pulled rug from under me and all other varaible the same. So with current regimen we should be able to reduce the phospholipase a2 from releasing EFA from membranes as well ?

Trouble

P5P formula must contain vitamin B2 as well. If it doesn't, find B2 and add it (its cheap). P5P should be 100mg per day. Not sure if 150mg is needed.

I have found it possible to go for longer periods without it but I don't have your symptoms.

HAN, I know phospholipase A2 is present in cobra venom (Naya Naya venom). I have no idea of its presence or nor regulation in human tissue. I used it for release of membrane bound proteins from beef heart and rat liver mitochondria in large protein preps years ago. You got me stumped.

EFA moves in an out of membranes, HAN. You should worry about getting enough, you can take up to 10 grams per day if you feel you are very short in absorption efficiency.

boilermaker

I suggest psychiatry.

My Journal: Are We Almost There Yet?

hardasnails1973

http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...tract/54/5/487

This explains it nicely. And boil maker I am tired of people telling me this shit is all in my head and it is not. Been to 3 clinical psychotriasts and said I had no under lying issues and it is biological linked. I basically self introduced through life style and more so dietary imbalances. Basically i have severe underactive thyroid which is clogging things up so to speak and was never addressed with in the first place by traditional drs. Intresting thing I also just found out was I had a freind that has gone to top CFS clinic in the USA and they told him all of those lab results from quest and lab corp are way off from where they should be especially for the endocrine system. The drs I work with narrow ranges down any deviation from the mid range 25% either way it will flag and they will investigate. This is how alot of my problems were caught and are being addressed. Given what I have been through I have made major leaps and bounds with out seeing a shrink. But thanks for advice

hardasnails1973

Let this be a lesson to be learned that ketogenic type diets and dietary/ supplement/mineral imbalances can really alters one neurological pathways as well deplete ones liver glyocegen with out you even knowing it even when blood sugar is prefectly fine while resting. Without proper lifestlye/dietary modification excessive excitory transmitters with out proper balance of inhibitory ones will reak havoc on ones Hypothalmus pituatary axis leads to cascade of detrimental events ultimately affecting every organ system leaving the drs puzzled and just treating each symptom rather then initial cause.

I just saw on the news where 25-30% of the adult population is having impaired sleep so maybe the medical community will wake the fuck up and start addressing stress modification and sleep hygiene with out advertising it in a pill. Some day I feel like I am in movie like demolitioin man or blade runner where society is being brained wash by manpulative authoirty such as our drug companys. Shit when I was a kid. I saw gobots and transformers on commericial and i want one now childer growing up "mommy mommy I can not sleep can you get me some Lunestra" WTF is our society coming too

Trouble

Sorry HAN, but that citation didn't give me any indication of why *you*, who deosn't have schizoprhenia, whould have unusual phospholipase turnover in membranes - I don't see a connection. Its doesn't release EFAs anyway, it releases phospholipids, which is why its used in certain membrane purificiation protocols.

hardasnails1973

Thanks for clarifying that up but i have been always been under the impression that increases in Phospholipase A2 (PLA2) activity resulted in premature uncoupling of the EFAs from phospholipids in the cell membrane and therefore could result in low arachondic acid as indicated on my EFA test.

Trouble

Excess plasma glucose participates in an NADPH catalyzed attack on hemoglobin in red blood cells, resulting in erythrocyte membrane peroxidation damage. This releases free iron. The oxidized iron then attacks other membrane components nearby, and is thought to be the catalyst for release of prostaglandins temp stored in membranes - resulting in a rise in plasma concentrations of inflammatory agents (prostaglandins, including arachidonic acid).

THis is the opposite of what you describing in a low arachidonic acid condition, in which the natural in vivo (in-place) biosythesis of arachidonic acid is hindered by blockade of either enzyme action or gene expression.

EFAs aren't "coupled" to anything in membranes but receptors, and once bound, they generally elicit an immediate response from activated receptors.

hardasnails1973

Ok now i understand that biosythesis of arachidonic acid is hindered by blockade of either enzyme action or gene expression Ie excessive marine oils intake/ altered metabolism which was indicated already suppressing the delta-5-desaturase as well as lack of insulin. I really did not take alot of fish oils max may be 1-2 tsp per day, but due to hypometabolism I could not metabolise them efficiently and over time they were building up. Does this sound plausible (been watching too much discoery channel and "Myth Busters" )

hardasnails1973

Since these so called drs had me on such a low carb high fat diet for so long and my blood work looks like that of a person with suppressed insulin levels IE low cholesterol, triglycerides,LDL. I can only speculate that during when I was driving my body fat into the ground my insulin levels were probably low and also my glucagon was elevated. The elevation of glucagon would literally deplete my muscle and liver glyogen causing suppression in t-4 to t-3 converstion and increasing RT3 (commonly assocaited with starvation), then for some reason when I switched back to eating "normal" my body never shifted back by increasing serum t-3 and got stuck in Rt3 mood. First thing evident on my blood test were elevated resting glucose levels, but drs nevered bothered said "oh your just alittle high" do not worry about it.

Do you think once I get my liver glycogen replenished that my body will shift out of starvation mood and thyroid will recover? I have been using the rice bran, but at 1/2 cup it only gives me 16 grams of carbs. From what i gather swtiching to a more traidtional diet is what may be necessary to reset my thyroid if that is possiible. i read bigandy's thread on thyroif recovery and it was suggested that higher carbs are necessary vs lower carbs in order for thyroid to recovery. i have an idea I may be too far gone for it to recover on its own.

Trouble

Patience. Add more carbs if you wish. I would add slow release carbs. I have only seen use of additional *calorie intake* be used during cutting to avoid thyroid shut down. For recovery? Liver has to recover first. Make sure you are getting adequate Kreb cycle intermediates - remember, they are supposed to be part of your recovery plan.

hardasnails1973

kreb cycle is well covered with citrates, AKG, ect. Liver beleive it or not seem to be doing well. I can feel my immune system kicking back on. Tongue coating is completely gone. I think the lithium orotate is helping with increasing my immune system by increasing white blood cell counts which are back in the normal range where they belong. So there has been alot of cellular and immune prgression. i eat nothing but low glycemic non gluten carbs and no fruit keeping fats normal Still can not handle alot of protein it tends to be like a brick in my stomach despite enzymes and stress reduction.
running a 40/30/30 diet c/p/f

hardasnails1973

TRouble when dealing with excessive lipid perioxadtion it is the oils that we need to be concern with and not the whole seeds and nuts, nut butters correct? I see your reasoning for olive oil since it reduces oxidative stress in the body.

Trouble

In excessive lipid peroxidation, is the source of the oxidation and the lack of defense mechanisms that are of primary concern.

When you are considering membrane structure-function, then you consider the types of fatty acids that comprise the phospholipid makeup of membranes. The composition is known to be tissue specific; dietary shift in that composition by excess of certain types of fats is affected (brought about) by change in diet and slow turover (attrition) of cellular membranes.

hardasnails1973

TRouble,
If one lacks proper bile acids for fat emulsfication but enough lipases What happens to the fat that is not emulsifed does it still get carried into the liver where it even though it not properly digested leading to oxidation and build up in liver. I always wondered this

hardasnails1973

SO basically with out bile salts (oxbile) you are not absorbing fats properly and would the effects of this be rancid fats and putrification.

Trouble

That is an incorrect assumption. Excessive lipid peroxidation is a direct result of a lack of protective enzyme function that cycles glutathione between its oxidized and reduced state. Its the mop up mechanism to control free radical attack on membrane lipids.

hardasnails1973

Thanks for clarifiying that for me. Let me rephrase the question. What happens to fats ingested if emulsification can not take place due to inadaquet bile salts?

Thanks

hardasnails1973

Progress has been very good sleep patterns are completely normal, digestion is really improving and life getting back to normal again. I been digging around and could not put my finger on things but now things are starting to make sense of what trouble was trying to say about genetic polymorphism is the MTHF gene leading to hypomethylation and homocysteine, as being divert via the betaine pathway vs the folate pathway. as well as the cysteine pathyway. I have found research showing that low folate levels affect choline depreviation. I have found only article showing that choline deficeincy ends up in low serum trigylcerides, VLDL, and serum cholesterol. All of which I have. So if my thinking is correct being deficeint in choline (via WBC choline as well as indirect methods via organic acids and amino acid testing) but having sufficient RBC folate would lead to a functional folic acid deficiency because the folate acid would not be methylated and there for not in its bioavailable for as 5- MTHF which would intiate the methioine synthase pathway. Right now I am using same at 400 mgs 2 times a day to feed the homocystein pathways as well as TMG 2000 mgs x 2 time a day to help increase methylation which is definetly defiecinct (3.9 homocystein level 5.4 - 13) which indicates major methylation defieincy. Found research articles showing choline defieincy causes hypomethylation in rats possbile because it effects the methylation of b-12, folic acid to active form is only reason I could possible think of. I probably been born this way because my cholesterol has never been above 150 all my life and has been as low as 110 and drs were telling me that was excellent and healthy, but how was I know it wasn't and just put my faith in drs. Dr I am working with now is excellent and we was amazed of how I understood. We are working on stabilizing endocrine system. i beleive through getting methylation pathways opened up properly will help flush out the toxins and fats from my liver so glycogen replenishment can be restored. Through information I provided dr was coming up with theory a had subclinical fatty liver which was been building up over the years through life style choices finally it symptoms were starting to show indirectly. I told him i had learned majority of this information from a wonderful lady that devotes her time to helping people with simlar problems before they get to point where they become ill.