Thread: Bi-Polar

Originally Posted by Trouble

Your symptoms are those of classical social deficit disorder. You respond to epinephrine agonists because you don't convert norepinephrine to epinephrine. You have cortisol issues, because NE is cranking on the HPA system.

For you, we seek to gently manage neural excitotoxicity. GABA, theanine, taurine, magnesium. Low dosese of each, 1/8th tsp theanine, couple times a day. One quarter teaspoon each of the rest of them. Take GABA and theanine separately, alternating use.

You can try bulk inositol, 2-4 grams, in one gram doses, over the day.

Deep breathing exercises are a must. You are sensitive to CO2 in your system.

Will you consider doing the following:

If you have portable CD player or IPOD, put on relaxing music, with a beat that you can walk to at moderate pace. I need you to walk twice per day, morning and night, 20-30 min. Wear sunglasses and your headset, don't worry about meeting others. I need you to pace your breathing, belly breathing style, the whole time you go out walking.

Twice a day, every day, day in and day out.

At night, a 20 min session, wtih trancey type music. No worries, no cares, just focus on the music and deeply relaxing yourself.

This problem is reversible, and yes, we can return you to a fully functional social state, Jon. I personally guarantee this, if you will follow these directions. First, we get you used to a regular cardio conditioning routine.

Then, we work on reducing your stress levels. We may, or may not use compounds like ALCAR to help. First, we get your CO2 levels down and your O2 levels up. Taurine will help. Make sure you are fully hydrated, all day long.

Please describe your sleep patterns (time to bed, time you rise, quality of sleep - has this changed recently, say in the last year).

Start a new thread, Jon. Copy your last post to it, and we'll continue from there.

For you, we seek to gently manage neural excitotoxicity. GABA, theanine, taurine, magnesium. Low dosese of each, 1/8th tsp theanine, couple times a day. One quarter teaspoon each of the rest of them. Take GABA and theanine separately, alternating use.

so 1/8th tsp theanine twice a day, and 1/4 teaspoon GABA, taurine, and magnesium once or twice a day?
writing all these down. I can find them at a local pharmacy right?
and should I still take ephedra, just 25mg a day. I can't have a decent day not freaking out, without it.

about the walking twice per day. Can I do this in the gym on a treadmill? or even light jogging, or you only recommend walking?


sleep paterns:
Before I started resistance training 4 months ago, my sleeping pattern was horrible. I never felt rested when I woke up. Always felt mad for no real reasons. I usually get in bed by 1:00am, but thoughts continually race through my head for a couple hours before I can fall asleep. I usually get up between 9-12pm. Odd days later than 12:00, and sometimes early as 7:00. Pretty much waking time is all over the place.

Since resistance training, I usually get in bed by the same time, but instead, fall asleep within 20-30 minutes. Sometimes, say half and half, I'd wake up feel rested, and others times tired and mad. Improving alot since a year ago.

Jon, I need you to please read the thread on Rest and Recovery.

Then read FuFu's thread on "How I Made My Life Better", in this same section.

Your problem with indoleamine biosynthesis is tied to your sleep habits, in part.

I also need you to post your typical diet. Its the other part of this problem.

You will need to start using the supplements for pyrrole disorder, and also the handful I mention as well.

You have Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome. Its jacking your cortisol, and norepinephrine, and causing your anxiety/panic attacks and social deficit disorder.

Originally Posted by Trouble

Jon, I need you to please read the thread on Rest and Recovery.

Then read FuFu's thread on "How I Made My Life Better", in this same section.

Your problem with indoleamine biosynthesis is tied to your sleep habits, in part.

I also need you to post your typical diet. Its the other part of this problem.

You will need to start using the supplements for pyrrole disorder, and also the handful I mention as well.

You have Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome. Its jacking your cortisol, and norepinephrine, and causing your anxiety/panic attacks and social deficit disorder.

Just read through those two threads. Still working on the links you posted within the threads. I never knew afternoon naps everyday we're bad. I havn't taken many lately, but I"ll try to cut it out completely, and only napping when I really need it. My parents do it everyday, i'm gonna tell them.

Diet:
3-6 meals a day. Usually 4.
Lots of white rice, some but not alot of whole grain breads. Oatmeal in my PWO shake.
Somedays alot of green veggies, somedays almost none. 3-9 Fruit servings a day.
Protein come mostly from fish, shellfish, seafoods. Usually no more than once a day of chicken/beef/turkey.
4-6 cups of milk. 3-4 bottles of water.
Creatine mono, glutamine, whey protein, BCAA(sometimes), ephedra 25-50mg, 1-2 cups of coffee. Vitamin A, B complex, C, D, and Calcium.


Supps for Pyrrole disorder
How much zinc, B-6, and primrose oil (or borage oil) should I supplement?

Diet: 3-6 meals a day. Usually 4.

Lots of white rice, some but not alot of whole grain breads. Oatmeal in my PWO shake.

Somedays alot of green veggies, somedays almost none. 3-9 Fruit servings a day.
Protein come mostly from fish, shellfish, seafoods. Usually no more than once a day of chicken/beef/turkey.
4-6 cups of milk. 3-4 bottles of water.
Creatine mono, glutamine, whey protein, BCAA(sometimes), ephedra 25-50mg, 1-2 cups of coffee. Vitamin A, B complex, C, D, and Calcium.


Supps for Pyrrole disorder

zinc 30-60 mg, sublingual, amino acid chelate
B-6 as P5P, 30-60 mg (30mg, 2x day), should be formulated with B2.

primrose oil (or borage oil) - not sure (sorry, have to research it)

Need body mass.

Look up signs of gluten intolerance, tell me if you have any symptoms.

Read up on mercury and its effect on zinc, copper and selenium.

Add selenium methionate to your list, 200 mcg (its cheap).

May or maynot need B12 as well.

When I start getting manic and disturbed I take some valerian and pseudofed.

Originally Posted by maniclion

When I start getting manic and disturbed I take some valerian and pseudofed.

I smoke assloads of pot.

Originally Posted by KelJu

I smoke assloads of pot.

That's always worked for me as well.

The Valerian has been a big help as of late.

Trouble: Give me a couple of days and I'll get back. I have alot of reading to do. *sigh* I like reading, but my minds always wondering, it's a struggle for me to take in information.



ahhh.....Weed........gold ol days. Stress, anger, depression, whatever it was, a joint always let me leave it all behind.

It started making me anxious and depressed though. It was one of the hardest thing I had to do, but I had to quit. But I'm much better now without it.

There's another good thread on THC and its effects.

A lot of folks have this problem with smoking it longer term. Seems to eventually depress/repress the endo-cannabinoid chemistry of the brain (part of the feel-good social reward feedback system). This results in elevated anxiety and paranoia from imbibing. Quite a few of us have experienced this and decided to quit when the chill is gone.

The types of carbs you feature in your meals, maybe with a deficit of dietary fiber, and the use of glutamine and ephedra, has caused your lower gut to crank out excitatory compounds that are causing much if not most of your anxiety issues, when DPSP (delayed sleep syndrome) is thrown in to the picture. Your upper gut, liver, and brain are keyed into this unfortunate excess of glutamate. Also of concern is the possibility that you have a mercury buildup from extensive reliance on seafood for your protein.

That can depress key minerals (zinc and selenium, plus iron), and cause metabolic problems. You will have to work on rebalancing diet as well.

One item at a time, however. You're overwhelmed as it is. Ask questions as needed, while you mow your way through your reading. Give youself time to assimilate these ideas.

Strange. A bit off topic, but I found that weed does nothing for me. Makes me feel worse if anything.

I only smoke weed when I'm happy, if I feel tired or down it just makes me sleepy.

I just wrote a lengthy response and somehow lost it. If you want the details I'll give them to you, but the jist of my response is that I suffered from similar symptoms (I thought I was dying from something all the time......not a joke for those about to pounce) and I was perscribed Lexapro, which solved it for me within a matter of 2 weeks. Yes, I'm still on it, but it is once per day. Your dosages of supps are insane, in my opinion, for a person to follow. Especially if they are trying to eat 5 clean meals, take fishies and go about their normal life.

What are the disadvantages to what I do, compared to what you are reccomending for VietJon? My doc has told me that there is no addiction of dependancy to the drug Lexapro.

I suggest a route that addresses the root cause of the condition, dietary deficiency, coupled with malsorption, sleep and excess stress problems.

Your doc is suppressing it with a drug.

Known Side effects associated with Lexapro use:

* headache, nervousness, or anxiety,
* thermal intolerance, sweating and fatique
* nausea, diarrhea, dry mouth, or changes in appetite or weight
* sleepiness or insomnia
* decreased sex drive, impotence, or difficulty having an orgasm
* gastrointestinal upset

Additional side effects are reported on the drug insert packaging.

There are no side effects with use of the supplement/dosages recommended here. They too, are not addictive. However, they afford a better prognosis. Why? See the last paragraph in this post.

The dosages recommended here are not "insane". I am not sure why you used that modifier. I advocate the approach used by well respected and nationally reknown orthomolecular mental health treatment centers that have successfully treated thousands of patients with bipolar disorder.

A simple dietary approach does not effectively treat bipolar disease.

This item from a Lexapro side effects webpage:

Adults with Major Depressive Disorder may experience worsening of their depression and/or the emergence of suicidal ideation and behavior (suicidality), whether or not they are taking antidepressant medications, and this risk may persist until significant remission occurs.

Remission will not occur while you take Lexipro. Its a symptom management strategy. Because the underlying cause is not addressed and the listed side effects may worsen underlying metabolic deficiencies, it is quite possible that longterm use will result in a worsening of symptoms. This is logically counterintuitive approach for promoting long-term remission of bipolar disorder.

A most relevant side note, to Boilermaker.

You last post was at 11:47 PST last night.

That is nearly 2am your time, in Michigan, is it not?

You sir, also have induced DSPS, and are actively contributing to your own bipolar disorder symptoms.

Before you criticize my recommendations, pay heed and take positive steps to curtail your deliberate induction of excess cortisol and norepinephrine and reduced melatonin and GABA that are co-causal to your neuroendocrine disorder.

Originally Posted by fufu

Strange. A bit off topic, but I found that weed does nothing for me. Makes me feel worse if anything.

It just makes me forget what I was upset about in the first place.

Originally Posted by Trouble

A most relevant side note, to Boilermaker.

You last post was at 11:47 PST last night.

That is nearly 2am your time, in Michigan, is it not?

No it isn't. It's nearly 3 a.m. But what you don't know is that I had to be at a plant at 4 a.m. for the startup of a casepacker on a new product line. I was writing the critical spares list for it.

You sir, also have induced DSPS, and are actively contributing to your own bipolar disorder symptoms.

I don't have bipolar disorder. I had anxiety after a surgery to remove a tumor from my body. Staying up late and going to work at 4 a.m. is not a normal night for me.

Before you criticize my recommendations, pay heed and take positive steps to curtail your deliberate induction of excess cortisol and norepinephrine and reduced melatonin and GABA that are co-causal to your neuroendocrine disorder.

I didn't criticize any of your reccomendations. I merely asked you to state the disadvantages of using a prescription medicine vs. supplements.

Originally Posted by Trouble

I suggest a route that addresses the root cause of the condition, dietary deficiency, coupled with malsorption, sleep and excess stress problems.

Your doc is suppressing it with a drug.

Known Side effects associated with Lexapro use:

* headache, nervousness, or anxiety,
* thermal intolerance, sweating and fatique
* nausea, diarrhea, dry mouth, or changes in appetite or weight
* sleepiness or insomnia
* decreased sex drive, impotence, or difficulty having an orgasm
* gastrointestinal upset

Additional side effects are reported on the drug insert packaging.

There are no side effects with use of the supplement/dosages recommended here. They too, are not addictive. However, they afford a better prognosis. Why? See the last paragraph in this post.

Actually, it was caused because I thought I was going to die. The only side effect I may have is not being able to fall asleep quickly.


[QUOTE]The dosages recommended here are not "insane". I am not sure why you used that modifier. I advocate the approach used by well respected and nationally reknown orthomolecular mental health treatment centers that have successfully treated thousands of patients with bipolar disorder.

A simple dietary approach does not effectively treat bipolar disease.[QUOTE]
What I meant by that was adding four more things to take, some multiple times a day seems insane for me. I can hardly stay on schedule with my regular pills and supps. I'd need a backpack to carry it all around and electro shock therapy to get it taken at the right times. Perhaps that was worded poorly. It was not a criticism of your dosing.

This item from a Lexapro side effects webpage:

Adults with Major Depressive Disorder may experience worsening of their depression and/or the emergence of suicidal ideation and behavior (suicidality), whether or not they are taking antidepressant medications, and this risk may persist until significant remission occurs.

Remission will not occur while you take Lexipro. Its a symptom management strategy. Because the underlying cause is not addressed and the listed side effects may worsen underlying metabolic deficiencies, it is quite possible that longterm use will result in a worsening of symptoms. This is logically counterintuitive approach for promoting long-term remission of bipolar disorder.

Yes, I take lexipro for anxiety, not Bi Polar Disorder. What I meant was for you to compare and contrast a prescribed drug for VietJon vs. the supplement route. I wasn't trying to get your hackles up, just curious to what they were since it is the route most patients go.

Some Gluten INtolerance symptoms:
* Digestive problems & gastrointestinal distress - eg. gas, bloating, "beer gut",
* Mental problems - eg. inability to concentrate, ADD
* Emotional problems - eg. moodiness, depression
* Fatigue
* Tingling numbness in the legs (rarely)


I don't think it's the gluts or ephedra that's causing the anxiety. I had anxiety 8-10 months prior to using those supplements, and it was alot worse before I started using them. they actually help rid my anxiety, but are they just supressing the symptoms and not exactly curing them?

also, I listed 4-6 cups of milk, should I be drinking more? and what about fruits, is that too much or too less?


Shopping List and dosage
i think i got this right, correct me if there's something wrong.


zinc (30-60 mg)

sublingual (30-60 mg)

amino acid chelate ( 30-60 mg)

B-6 as P5P, 30-60 mg (30mg, 2x day)
formulated with B2. what do you mean forumalted?

selenium methionate ( 200 mcg.) 200 mcg once a day?

primrose oil ((.5gx3) three times a day)

1/8th tsp theanine (2x a day)

GABA, taurine, and magnesium 1/4 teaspoon once or twice a day?

Not a problem so much of gluten intolerance, more like too much fast absorbing carbs and not enough fiber to slow absorption and regulate glucose release. Casein sensitivity has been associated with anxiety. In fact, we had a guy who had nightly anxiety attacks (and nightmares) after eating cottage cheese before bedtime.

P5P, from Now Foods, which I use, has B2 added as a cofactor.

Selenium once per day, with vitamin E (makes it more effectively absorbed and used in cells).

GABA, taurine and magnesium, you should take at least twice per day between meals in water. Experiment to see how you respond beyond that starting dose (say, taking this combo 3-4 times per day).

Ill start eating more unprocessed brown cereals and whole wheat breads.

thnkx trouble.......ill report back, hope the supps works.

Jon, you want bran fiber (not wheat, rice bran and oat bran) and minimally cooked vegetables, lots of fresh vegetables and salads and a minimum of fruit at present. Try brown rice or wild rice, in limited servings, just a few per day.

bran fiber, got it....... minimum fruits too? damnit..........it gives me clear skin and girls dig me for that......but that can wait.

thnkx trouble.

The supplements are working. There's still a long way to go before I'm 100%, but so far it's working. I've stopped using ephedra to supress my symptoms, and even without it, I have very little anxiety. I had an awesome workout yesterday. It's been a while since a gym session without useless worrying boggling me down.

I'm still waiting for gaba, theanine, and taurine in the mail...but just with the other supplements, I feel much better already.


Over the last few years, I could never remember my dreams. But the last week, my dream recall has been awesome. And that helps alot with the psychological issue of my illness. My questions is, which one of these supplements is doing this? I"m curious. I want to do some reading on it. It's nice to have dreams again.

If you are using B6 (or P5P) and zinc, they would be primary agents. Others, vitamin C, probably help as well.

You can have my dreams. I don't want them! The night before last, I was giving tests all night to a class I had never seen before. Last night, I was sorting odd and ends, in somebody else's house! Endless work dreams..*sigh*. I wake up feeling tired. LOL. I need to have another dream of flying again! Those are fun!

sorting out people's crap? nahhh.....keep em. I hate those confusing nonsensical type of dreams. They make no frekain sense. And you wake up with an odd feeling.


but anything beats empty dreams. So be careful what you wish for.

bump

I conclude:


Anxiety generates knowledge. "As Kierkegaard explains it, anxiety is the natural condition. It's a cognitive emotion that reveals truths that we would prefer to hide but that we need for our greater health.


Anxiety leads to action. "Kierkegaard wrote that the most common form of despair occurs when one does not choose or 'will' to be oneself -- when a person is 'another than himself.' The opposite of despair is 'to will to be that self which one truly is.' That's the experience of anxiety. It is choosing life in the face of death; it is the experience of thought becoming action, reflection becoming behavior, and theory becoming practice. Anxiety is pure energy."


Anxiety makes you a grown-up. "Anxiety is the experience of growth itself. In any endeavor, how do you feel when you go from one stage to the next? The answer: You feel anxious. Anxiety that is denied makes us ill; anxiety that is fully confronted and fully lived through converts itself into joy, security, strength, centeredness, and character. The practical formula: Go where the pain is."


Peter Koestenbaum

I hope you get better viet jon, there's nothing worse than losing your mental sanity, I know, I used to suffer from severe deppression, but thank God I'm ok now