Elevated Liver Enzymes

danzik17 · 07-27-2007, 08:12 AM

I was getting blood work done to check my health for going on a medication when we found out that my AST, ALT, and Alkaline Phosphatase levels are all high, but especially the AST and ALT are ridiculous.

Values are actual/normal maximum
Alkaline Phosphate = 181/150
AST=133/40
ALT=261/55

Just wondering if anyone here has any idea as what that could mean - I am working with a doctor on this, but outside ideas couldn't hurt to check into. I was taking multi-vitamins, ginseng, and minocycline, all of which I am stopping and then getting re-tested in about 3 weeks.

On a better note, cholesterol levels are exactly 1:1. Kickass.

**Jodi** · 07-27-2007, 09:02 AM

Have you used any AAS or other supplements?

danzik17 · 07-27-2007, 09:28 AM

I tried creatine and the free sample of leviathan for a few days but really didn't feel the need to continue them, and that was like 2 months ago either way.

The only supplements I have actively been using are a multi-vitamin, ginseng, fish oil, and whey protein. I was also taking minocycline for my skin.

**IainDaniel** · 07-27-2007, 09:38 AM

How long have you been using monocycline?

There has been links although rare to Liver and kidney problems in long term use.

**Jodi** · 07-27-2007, 09:42 AM

Ah yeah, the minocycline is definately your problem then.

Quote:

As minocycline is a widely used drug, clinicians should be aware of the risk of HS, even in the presence of neurological abnormalities. Early warning signs include an acute rash with fever, eosinophilia and elevated liver enzymes. The drug should be immediately and definitively withdrawn for the patient. If used, minocycline should be strictly monitored, especially in African or HIV-infected patients.

Journal of Medical Case Reports | Full text | Minocycline-induced hypersensitivity syndrome presenting with meningitis and brain edema: a case report

danzik17 · 07-27-2007, 10:16 AM

Been using it since around the end of April, and that was what my doctor thought also. As of today I'm discontinuing using it, the multi-vitamin, and ginseng, and in 2-3 weeks I'm going to have more blood work again to hopefully see that the enzymes have gone back to normal.

BoneCrusher · 07-27-2007, 10:47 AM

Been in the cage with Bas Rutten? Car crashes? Rough landing while base-jumping? Impact trauma also throws your levels out of whack.

danzik17 · 07-27-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Been in the cage with Bas Rutten? Car crashes? Rough landing while base-jumping? Impact trauma also throws your levels out of whack.

I have been hitting myself in the face with a brick lately....

**Jodi** · 07-27-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

I have been hitting myself in the face with a brick lately....

Blooming Lotus · 07-27-2007, 06:05 PM

Alot of those western meds can have some pretty nasty side effects.. that's why I personally prefer to attack things dietarily if I can put it together.
Do you do many bitter or estrigent ph.s and green herbs in your diet???

Chinese med practioners have this red bark and bits ( ??) combo cleanse that I've used before and found quite good . $20 aus for 7-10 days worth of daily 1 lt brew bags. and 1 round usually being all you might need.
worth mentioning anyway

.

Blooming tianshi lotus.

danzik17 · 07-27-2007, 07:05 PM

Nah I don't think I need to do any kind of cleansing, just stopping the medicines I am on will probably set me right.

I will say I really should work harder at eating more vegetables though, I'm sure it would help out a lot. Sadly, that's one of the only remaining parts of my diet where I'm doing terribly

Gordo · 07-28-2007, 08:28 AM

Been there, frequent use of the cyclines (usually for Acne) can elevate your liver enzymes (or at least they did for both my brother and I). The cyclines can beat up on the liver in some folks. I wouldn't even bother getting worked up over the ginseng and the multi-vit. My money's on the cycline.

Keep this in mind in case you're ever offered accutane. You think your liver is getting fucked with now, just wait. If offered, make sure they take your liver reaction to the cyclines into account before going forward (ie: a specialist should be consulted).

Look into alterantive acne treatments (assuming it's for acne). For me, the cyclines never worked out and you risk turning your teeth blue.
Look more towards diet, play around with ratios and see what starts giving you results. Especially look at things designed to promote insulin rushes (and consider cutting that out. Knock out post workout shakes for instance). I found a higher protein, higher quality fat, low carbohydrate diet did wonders for my skin.

This is all simply opinion, your doc has the last say for the obvious reasons.

danzik17 · 07-28-2007, 10:15 AM

Gordo:

The blood test actually was for accutane, and yes my liver reaction was probably the #1 side-effect I was concerned about.

I don't eat much that promotes insulin spikes at all - my PWO shake is just milk and whey, nothing really in the way of dextrose or anything.

I'm not sure if a really low carb diet will work for me. I remember before I changed my diet again, I was eating more protein and less carbs and I felt like complete crap. Always tired and whatnot.

Jodi:

Since you're the diet expert

, do you have any good resources for eating for clearing up/maintaining healthy skin?

I've already cut out about all sugar and greasy foods minus one weekly or bi-weekly cheat meat for the most part. I do know that eating my vegetables would help a lot, which I'm currently not doing, need to work on that. Not sure if there is anything else I could be doing diet wise.

danzik17 · 07-28-2007, 10:21 AM

I would be willing to to something like a carb cycling diet so that I have a few low carb days in a row or whatever, I'd have to read up on designing a diet like that. I just know that for me, extended low carb diets just don't work, they leave me feeling like garbage.

Gordo · 07-28-2007, 11:17 AM

Many people who go low carb are scared to increase their good fats appropriately. A lower carb lifestyle can take several weeks of adjustment. You do adjust, it takes time though. Look into the work of Cassandra Forsythe. Over the years I came to the conclusion that the cyclines are used to really only treat the symptoms and not the problem. Docs are way to overloaded to get into the dietary issues that are likely setting off the chain of events that promote acne. In other words they don't have time to consider all the other factors (lifestyle, diet etc...)

Working with a ND might be of benefit in this case (as a suggestion). If you try to "treat acne" but change nothing else, you'll simply continue to have to live with it.

Gordo · 07-28-2007, 11:21 AM

A had a lot of background talk with Trouble on the subject and the discussion of leaky guts came into play as well. You may want to research that topic alittle and see how it might apply to what you're eating now. Also look for past posts from Trouble; topic: acne ('my skin is disgusting' is one thread that I remember)

danzik17 · 07-28-2007, 01:04 PM

I got some good general information out of those threads, but a lot of the information seems tailored to the individuals though, so I really don't know how to apply it to myself.

There are two things I can work on though: eating more vegetables, getting a better quality sleep.

The sleep thing will improve dramatically in about 7 days; I'm moving off campus, which means I will finally have a single after 3 damn years of having a roommate. He's a good guy and all, been roommates for 2 years and friends for 3 years now, but his night habits continually keep me awake much longer than I would like.

I'll work on ideas for a new diet over the next week or so and post them up, but I'm not going to be adding any supplements for at least 3 weeks. Even though they probably won't affect my liver, I want to let it settle down and become healthy again before I do anything.

Blooming Lotus · 07-28-2007, 05:00 PM

Have you ever tried this

1. Lipovox was developed accidently by a Hawaiian college student while watching the Oprah Whinfrey show on "How to look 10 Years Younger in 10 Days." She went on a special diet eating 10 "SuperFoods" recommended by renowned Dermatologist Dr. Perricone daily to lose her "Surfing Wrinkles." To her surprise she didn't lose the wrinkles but she lost 11 Pounds in 10 days and her Acne vanished. It was difficult for her to eat the 10 foods daily so she decided to supplement with 10 Highly Concentrated Extracts and her results were identical to the whole foods. Lipovox is now not only all the rave in the weight loss world but also by athletes, actresses, and celebrities wanting perfect skin. All ten "SuperFoods" are contained in highly concentrated extracts plus 3 additional Antioxidants recommended by Dr. Perricone. A 30 day supply retails for $69.00. 94/100 99/100 Aids Acne, Wrinkles, and Detoxifies Body.
PricesExposed.net | An Internet Resource for Diet Pill Truth

I know youre probably snotting on my advice, but take it or leave it. Liver function and hormone balance has kiid of become a speciality of mine.( shrug)
Lipofusion is another good one.. escpecially with the EE and L-tyrosine if youre planning carb cycling.
Whatever. Good luck with your skin girly.

Blooming tianshi lotus.

danzik17 · 07-28-2007, 05:37 PM

Lotus:

I'm not a girl first off, but thanks for the advise. I won't be trying those pills though, at least not right now. There is no actual research that has been done on those pills, and no proof that they actually *do* anything. Not only that, but here is the fourth link down on google - Lipovox Reviewed... Acne, Wrinkle And Weight Loss Fighter?. It states right in there, with several customers backing up the review, that it is a scam and does nothing.

Blooming Lotus · 07-28-2007, 05:42 PM

Okaay. My liver function results soar up past 75 x normal at times so I just thought I'd share what's helped me out over the past 15- 17 yrs of it, even though you replied how you did. Acne iis hormonal though. Hormonal correction can be re-balanced dietarily. It is my prefered method . I can see what you're not getting but good luck with your chem anyway.

Blooming tianshi lotus.

**Jodi** · 07-30-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

Gordo:

The blood test actually was for accutane, and yes my liver reaction was probably the #1 side-effect I was concerned about.

I don't eat much that promotes insulin spikes at all - my PWO shake is just milk and whey, nothing really in the way of dextrose or anything.

I'm not sure if a really low carb diet will work for me. I remember before I changed my diet again, I was eating more protein and less carbs and I felt like complete crap. Always tired and whatnot.

Jodi:

Since you're the diet expert

, do you have any good resources for eating for clearing up/maintaining healthy skin?

I've already cut out about all sugar and greasy foods minus one weekly or bi-weekly cheat meat for the most part. I do know that eating my vegetables would help a lot, which I'm currently not doing, need to work on that. Not sure if there is anything else I could be doing diet wise.

n3 deficiencies are notorious with acne.

danzik17 · 07-30-2007, 01:06 PM

I do supplement 8g of fish oil every day and I believe another 2.5 comes comes out of my whole egg in the morning, so I should be sitting at 10.5g minimum, not including if I happen to eat fish that day or other omega 3 foods.

katt · 07-30-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blooming Lotus

Alot of those western meds can have some pretty nasty side effects.. that's why I personally prefer to attack things dietarily if I can put it together.
Do you do many bitter or estrigent ph.s and green herbs in your diet???

Chinese med practioners have this red bark and bits ( ??) combo cleanse that I've used before and found quite good . $20 aus for 7-10 days worth of daily 1 lt brew bags. and 1 round usually being all you might need.
worth mentioning anyway

.

Blooming tianshi lotus.

Do you have a link for this?

danzik17 · 08-27-2007, 02:43 PM

Liver enzymes are apparently still elevated even after being off the minocycline for over 3 weeks

Going to probably be seeing a specialist within a week or two, but in the mean time - anyone got any other ideas as to what it might be?

Gordo · 08-28-2007, 02:37 PM

Did you have a hard workout before going for the test?

How much protein do you get in you daily diet. What's your current body weight?

Tatyana · 08-28-2007, 03:36 PM

Have you been tested for hepatitis?

What is your blood pressure?

x
x
x

T

danzik17 · 08-28-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

07-27-2007, 08:12 AM	#1
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,899 Blog Entries: 5	Elevated Liver Enzymes I was getting blood work done to check my health for going on a medication when we found out that my AST, ALT, and Alkaline Phosphatase levels are all high, but especially the AST and ALT are ridiculous. Values are actual/normal maximum Alkaline Phosphate = 181/150 AST=133/40 ALT=261/55 Just wondering if anyone here has any idea as what that could mean - I am working with a doctor on this, but outside ideas couldn't hurt to check into. I was taking multi-vitamins, ginseng, and minocycline, all of which I am stopping and then getting re-tested in about 3 weeks. On a better note, cholesterol levels are exactly 1:1. Kickass.
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

07-27-2007, 09:02 AM	#2
Jodi Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 22,265 Photos: 1	Have you used any AAS or other supplements?
	Essence EFA

07-27-2007, 09:28 AM	#3
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,899 Blog Entries: 5	I tried creatine and the free sample of leviathan for a few days but really didn't feel the need to continue them, and that was like 2 months ago either way. The only supplements I have actively been using are a multi-vitamin, ginseng, fish oil, and whey protein. I was also taking minocycline for my skin.
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

07-27-2007, 09:38 AM	#4
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,381	How long have you been using monocycline? There has been links although rare to Liver and kidney problems in long term use.
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

07-27-2007, 10:16 AM	#6
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,899 Blog Entries: 5	Been using it since around the end of April, and that was what my doctor thought also. As of today I'm discontinuing using it, the multi-vitamin, and ginseng, and in 2-3 weeks I'm going to have more blood work again to hopefully see that the enzymes have gone back to normal.
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

07-27-2007, 10:47 AM	#7
BoneCrusher Lift or Die Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 8,492	Been in the cage with Bas Rutten? Car crashes? Rough landing while base-jumping? Impact trauma also throws your levels out of whack.

07-27-2007, 06:05 PM	#10
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896	Alot of those western meds can have some pretty nasty side effects.. that's why I personally prefer to attack things dietarily if I can put it together. Do you do many bitter or estrigent ph.s and green herbs in your diet??? Chinese med practioners have this red bark and bits ( ??) combo cleanse that I've used before and found quite good . $20 aus for 7-10 days worth of daily 1 lt brew bags. and 1 round usually being all you might need. worth mentioning anyway . Blooming tianshi lotus.
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896

07-27-2007, 07:05 PM	#11
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,899 Blog Entries: 5	Nah I don't think I need to do any kind of cleansing, just stopping the medicines I am on will probably set me right. I will say I really should work harder at eating more vegetables though, I'm sure it would help out a lot. Sadly, that's one of the only remaining parts of my diet where I'm doing terribly
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

07-28-2007, 08:28 AM	#12
Gordo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: O' Canada...stuck in the middle of you Posts: 1,036 Photos: 8	Been there, frequent use of the cyclines (usually for Acne) can elevate your liver enzymes (or at least they did for both my brother and I). The cyclines can beat up on the liver in some folks. I wouldn't even bother getting worked up over the ginseng and the multi-vit. My money's on the cycline. Keep this in mind in case you're ever offered accutane. You think your liver is getting fucked with now, just wait. If offered, make sure they take your liver reaction to the cyclines into account before going forward (ie: a specialist should be consulted). Look into alterantive acne treatments (assuming it's for acne). For me, the cyclines never worked out and you risk turning your teeth blue. Look more towards diet, play around with ratios and see what starts giving you results. Especially look at things designed to promote insulin rushes (and consider cutting that out. Knock out post workout shakes for instance). I found a higher protein, higher quality fat, low carbohydrate diet did wonders for my skin. This is all simply opinion, your doc has the last say for the obvious reasons.
	"If you don't bend those legs and do those squats, you'll never reach your potential." Paul Anderson

07-28-2007, 10:15 AM	#13
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,899 Blog Entries: 5	Gordo: The blood test actually was for accutane, and yes my liver reaction was probably the #1 side-effect I was concerned about. I don't eat much that promotes insulin spikes at all - my PWO shake is just milk and whey, nothing really in the way of dextrose or anything. I'm not sure if a really low carb diet will work for me. I remember before I changed my diet again, I was eating more protein and less carbs and I felt like complete crap. Always tired and whatnot. Jodi: Since you're the diet expert , do you have any good resources for eating for clearing up/maintaining healthy skin? I've already cut out about all sugar and greasy foods minus one weekly or bi-weekly cheat meat for the most part. I do know that eating my vegetables would help a lot, which I'm currently not doing, need to work on that. Not sure if there is anything else I could be doing diet wise.
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

07-28-2007, 10:21 AM	#14
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,899 Blog Entries: 5	I would be willing to to something like a carb cycling diet so that I have a few low carb days in a row or whatever, I'd have to read up on designing a diet like that. I just know that for me, extended low carb diets just don't work, they leave me feeling like garbage.
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

07-28-2007, 11:17 AM	#15
Gordo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: O' Canada...stuck in the middle of you Posts: 1,036 Photos: 8	Many people who go low carb are scared to increase their good fats appropriately. A lower carb lifestyle can take several weeks of adjustment. You do adjust, it takes time though. Look into the work of Cassandra Forsythe. Over the years I came to the conclusion that the cyclines are used to really only treat the symptoms and not the problem. Docs are way to overloaded to get into the dietary issues that are likely setting off the chain of events that promote acne. In other words they don't have time to consider all the other factors (lifestyle, diet etc...) Working with a ND might be of benefit in this case (as a suggestion). If you try to "treat acne" but change nothing else, you'll simply continue to have to live with it.
	"If you don't bend those legs and do those squats, you'll never reach your potential." Paul Anderson

07-28-2007, 11:21 AM	#16
Gordo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: O' Canada...stuck in the middle of you Posts: 1,036 Photos: 8	A had a lot of background talk with Trouble on the subject and the discussion of leaky guts came into play as well. You may want to research that topic alittle and see how it might apply to what you're eating now. Also look for past posts from Trouble; topic: acne ('my skin is disgusting' is one thread that I remember)
	"If you don't bend those legs and do those squats, you'll never reach your potential." Paul Anderson

07-28-2007, 01:04 PM	#17
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,899 Blog Entries: 5	I got some good general information out of those threads, but a lot of the information seems tailored to the individuals though, so I really don't know how to apply it to myself. There are two things I can work on though: eating more vegetables, getting a better quality sleep. The sleep thing will improve dramatically in about 7 days; I'm moving off campus, which means I will finally have a single after 3 damn years of having a roommate. He's a good guy and all, been roommates for 2 years and friends for 3 years now, but his night habits continually keep me awake much longer than I would like. I'll work on ideas for a new diet over the next week or so and post them up, but I'm not going to be adding any supplements for at least 3 weeks. Even though they probably won't affect my liver, I want to let it settle down and become healthy again before I do anything.
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

07-28-2007, 05:00 PM	#18
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896	Have you ever tried this 1. Lipovox was developed accidently by a Hawaiian college student while watching the Oprah Whinfrey show on "How to look 10 Years Younger in 10 Days." She went on a special diet eating 10 "SuperFoods" recommended by renowned Dermatologist Dr. Perricone daily to lose her "Surfing Wrinkles." To her surprise she didn't lose the wrinkles but she lost 11 Pounds in 10 days and her Acne vanished. It was difficult for her to eat the 10 foods daily so she decided to supplement with 10 Highly Concentrated Extracts and her results were identical to the whole foods. Lipovox is now not only all the rave in the weight loss world but also by athletes, actresses, and celebrities wanting perfect skin. All ten "SuperFoods" are contained in highly concentrated extracts plus 3 additional Antioxidants recommended by Dr. Perricone. A 30 day supply retails for $69.00. 94/100 99/100 Aids Acne, Wrinkles, and Detoxifies Body. PricesExposed.net \| An Internet Resource for Diet Pill Truth I know youre probably snotting on my advice, but take it or leave it. Liver function and hormone balance has kiid of become a speciality of mine.( shrug) Lipofusion is another good one.. escpecially with the EE and L-tyrosine if youre planning carb cycling. Whatever. Good luck with your skin girly. Blooming tianshi lotus.
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896

07-28-2007, 05:37 PM	#19
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,899 Blog Entries: 5	Lotus: I'm not a girl first off, but thanks for the advise. I won't be trying those pills though, at least not right now. There is no actual research that has been done on those pills, and no proof that they actually do anything. Not only that, but here is the fourth link down on google - Lipovox Reviewed... Acne, Wrinkle And Weight Loss Fighter?. It states right in there, with several customers backing up the review, that it is a scam and does nothing.
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

07-28-2007, 05:42 PM	#20
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896	Okaay. My liver function results soar up past 75 x normal at times so I just thought I'd share what's helped me out over the past 15- 17 yrs of it, even though you replied how you did. Acne iis hormonal though. Hormonal correction can be re-balanced dietarily. It is my prefered method . I can see what you're not getting but good luck with your chem anyway. Blooming tianshi lotus.
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896

07-30-2007, 01:06 PM	#22
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,899 Blog Entries: 5	I do supplement 8g of fish oil every day and I believe another 2.5 comes comes out of my whole egg in the morning, so I should be sitting at 10.5g minimum, not including if I happen to eat fish that day or other omega 3 foods.
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

08-27-2007, 02:43 PM	#24
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,899 Blog Entries: 5	Liver enzymes are apparently still elevated even after being off the minocycline for over 3 weeks Going to probably be seeing a specialist within a week or two, but in the mean time - anyone got any other ideas as to what it might be?
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

08-28-2007, 02:37 PM	#25
Gordo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: O' Canada...stuck in the middle of you Posts: 1,036 Photos: 8	Did you have a hard workout before going for the test? How much protein do you get in you daily diet. What's your current body weight?
	"If you don't bend those legs and do those squats, you'll never reach your potential." Paul Anderson

08-28-2007, 03:36 PM	#26
Tatyana Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: UK-just outside London Posts: 580 Photos: 10	Have you been tested for hepatitis? What is your blood pressure? x x x T