gizmo

Hi

I am asking a question on behalf of my wife if that's OK.

She has put on a bit of weight since quitting smoking 6 months ago and wants to lose about 28 lbs. At 5ft 2" she is over her BMI quite a bit weighing in at 11 stone. She wants to get down to 9 stone ideally.

She started up the gym last week and went 5 times for about an hour. Of those hour sessions, a good 45 minutes were spent doing cardio work on cross-trainers, steppers, rowing machines etc. In addition she did some abdominal exercises

In addition, she is on the Weight Watchers plan (basically she gets to eat 20 points a day) which she has stuck to. In other words, she is eating well, she has reduced her calories (not drastically but enough to spurt weight loss without putting her body into famine mode) and she is doing lots of exercise. Her previous lifestyle consisted of an office job, sitting on the settee at home etc. Her exercise was cleaning - so she was not massively active.

When we weighed her yesterday she had only lost one pound. She is obviously rather upset thinking that, of all the weeks, she would see the most changes in the first week with such a drastic change from doing hardly nothing to quite a lot or aerobics.

Can anyone explain what has happened? And more to the point if she continues will she eventually start to lose the weight? In previous years she lost weight without much trouble (2 lbs a week usually) but she smoked back then whereas she does not now.

Any help appreciated

Ted

Lost-Doggies UK

Gazhole

These things take time, weight loss might not actually kick in for a few weeks. What you should watch is the loss of water early on rather than fat, tell her to go by the way she looks rather than judging by the scale. All weight is not equal, she wants to lose FAT not MUSCLE or WATER.

I wouldnt go to the gym 5 times a week either, 3 or 4 at the most. It might be worth posting something in the training section about a good program. I reccomend some sort of combination of cardio and weight training.

Good luck to you both

http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 25/04/08

ironman13

if possible stick to cardio 7 days a week atleast once, then there is no room for error. even if you just run for 2 or 3 mins.

Dale Mabry

It is an error in energy balance, as is always the case. Let's start with some basics. Let's assume she is doing an hour of exercise 5 times a week as you have said. Well, if she spends one hour a day but goes home and collapses on the couch, she may not be burning as many calories throughout the day as when she was doing sporadic housework before. This is typically the case with the people that pop on a machine and enter the fallacious fat burning zone 5-6 times a week.

IMO, duration dictates what substrate is used, and intensity dictates how much of that substrate you use. You get what you put in. So, go for 20 minutes and you will burn a significant amount of fat. Run it at 60% as fast as you can run it and you will get 60% of the results you could be getting. Of course, people new to exercise need to gradually introduce intensity to the equation, but too many people take it too gradually.

Eventually she will want to do intervals, but that is probably a month down the road, if not more.

On the other end, people often significantly under-report how many calories they are eating, so she may be not adding some things in that are bringing her numbers up.

If sense were common, everyone would have it.

4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

Biggly

Weight scales on their own are a killer, for the exact reason you just described. Get yourself a cheap pair of skinfold calipers and a measuring tape.

Don't forget muscle is a lot heavier than fat, if she's weighing 11 stone and only 5'2" then that exercise is mild weight training, especially on un-trained legs. She may have lost 5lb and gained 4lb of lean tissue (muscle is 6 times heavier) hence calipers as well as a tape.

Step messing about with points and count her calories for a week, divide the daily totals by 7 and see what her actual average intake is. Then compare to what it's supposed to be. She needs to be at least 400 calories below her maintenance figure on a consistent basis for 2 weeks to really dig into the fat, then a mild refeed (one day) and do it again.

If there's soy in her diet get rid of it.

Main things to watch for are things that include fat and sugar at the same time (cakes, doughnuts etc).

She has a lot of fat to lose and needs a LOT of water to help that.


Best of luck and keep us posted!


B.

Biggly Bodybuilding Software 1/2 price for May "The sensation of hunger can often be alleviated and even mitigated entirely with the consumption of food.[citation needed]" Wiki

gizmo

Thanks a lot guys - that all makes sense. I'll let you know how we get on!

Ted

Lost-Doggies UK

gizmo

She's weighed herself today and now she 11st 2lbs - a gain of 2 lbs.

She asked the gym trainer yesterday for some help. She told her that doing cardio exercises is not as demanding as weight training and ideally she should combine her sessions with both - as GazHole said initially, above. Her quote was something like "Weight training will burn off in 2 minutes what aerobics burns off in 10 as it places more demands on the heart". This is not how I thought the process worked but I guess it makes sense - I've done weight training most of my life and generally look better doing that than when I just do cardio stuff.

Anyway, suffice to say is very upset today (despite what we told her about scales not being entirely right) because regardless of how she looks she doesn't want to weigh this much. She wants to be 9 st. We are going to give this new schedule a try (basically it's an hour session comprising about 25 mins of cardio with 35 mins of weight training. Will let you know how we get!

Lost-Doggies UK

Biggly

Cardio with weight training? Erm... Can I suggest weight training, followed by a post-workout meal, an hour's gap and THEN some cardio?

Doing cardio before the weights means A. she'll hate the weights and B. the weights will hate her. Alternatively go for HIIT cardio, ie sprint, get breath back, sprint, breath back, sprint etc. 15 mins of that is plenty.

You do reach a point though that you just cannot do it for someone. For example early morning cardio on an empty tummy, science or not, burns fat. Is she willing to do that? If not, there's your answer.

"You can lead a horse to water..."


B.

Biggly Bodybuilding Software 1/2 price for May "The sensation of hunger can often be alleviated and even mitigated entirely with the consumption of food.[citation needed]" Wiki

FitnessRubber

Cardio always was easier after weights for everyone I've known to do both... far far more effective

Fitness Rubber
http://www.fitnessrubber.com

Jack P

Don't worry about the scale. Take a tape measure and use that on hips and waist once a week. Because muscle weights more than fat the scale can be very misleading when you first start to lose weight. It's quite possible, if you don't have a lot to lose, to weigh more when you are in shape but still go down a clothing size.

Getting good results with Truth About Abs so far.

Built

I have lived your wife's life - I was fat for over twenty years doing low fat diets and lots of cardio. It doesn't work because it can't.

Have her read my blog, and please have her track everything she puts in her mouth for a week on FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal

I need to see exactly what she's eating.

She should NOT be concentrating on cardio. Cardio is absolute crap for fat loss.

The easiest way to think of it is that weight loss (muscle and fat) is diet.
Fat loss is diet with some way to convince the body to maintain muscle (heavy-for her weight training in low-rep, low-volume workouts, sufficient protein and fat to maintain and support lean mass).
Cardio is good for your heart, but convinces the body to become an efficient fat burning machine. You know what that means, right? It teaches the body to need LESS FUEL.

Tell her she can't exercise off the weight, and not to try.

hardasnails1973

She needs to examine life styles and proper nutrition evalution, plus check your thyroid and adrenals.

EDIT: You need to place a link on your website to IronMagazine.com if you want to put a link in your sig.

gixxer0.6g

From years and years of work I've learned this and it seems so obvious now; Muscle burns fat, cardio doesn't build muscle, and legs are the easiest place to build muscle. This for me was the key to cutting body fat. This proves itself over and over again because I see overweight people spend hours on treadmills with little weight loss while the ones lifting weights and doing strength training drop weight so much faster.

So in conclusion, focus on building muscle through strength training involving multiple muscle groups and keep in mind nutrition is at least 80% of the battle. NO SUGARS!!

skitzo

if shes at the gym for 1 hour and does cardio for 45 mins that may be the problem, correct me if I'm wrong but to lose weight the most efficient way you must follow the priorities 1. diet 2.weight training 3. cardio. Maybe she should stay at the gym for a extra half hour and do a little more weights imo.. anyways good luck to her.

Biggly

I wouldn't go so far as to say no sugars, just cut down on them but you do need carbs to exercise well in the first place.

Jack P is right about the scales, they are worse than useless on their own. However as well as a tape measure get some skinfold calipers, for directly measuring fat levels. If you hunt around you can get them for less than $10 for a cheap plastic thingy.


B.

Biggly Bodybuilding Software 1/2 price for May "The sensation of hunger can often be alleviated and even mitigated entirely with the consumption of food.[citation needed]" Wiki

Built

Sort of… you're definitely on to something.

You clearly understand the order of operations here - diet is paramount.


Scales aren't useless - they tell you exactly what it is that you WEIGH. (muscle, fat, water… poo…)

Now. Let's pull out the salient points here. For the purpose of discussion, I'm going to tell you a few good lies: diet is 100% responsible for your WEIGHT (muscle and fat). Cardio is good for your heart, but burns zero calories. Resistance training directs calorie traffic. Use this as a mental image and the rest will follow a little better in your mind.

1. Muscle building - cardio vs weights
She's cutting. Cardio will burn fat and muscle, and stimulate appetite. Lifting will risk manage muscle and force the body to lose fat instead. This actually slows WEIGHT loss (a pound of fat holds 3500 calories. A pound of sirloin is what, 600?) but speeds FAT loss.

2. Even if she DID gain muscle, it won't be much - maybe a few ounce in a month at the most while dropping fat. Watch the scale - it'll tell you what you need to know if you track the trend over time.

3. She needs to plan out how she will do this. First up, FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal to find HER calories, not some calculated value but her OWN actual average from a few days or a week. Then drop this figure by about 20%, making sure to keep protein and fat up.

4. Women are invariably insulin resistant relative to men, and it's worse of course when we're fat. Low fat diets are a disaster for us because of this, as is excessive cardio because both conspire to make us hungry. Tell her to drop her carbs and increase her protein and her fat, and her veggies.

5. Short, heavy-for-HER workouts with low-rep sets (say 20 sets in total, reps between 5-8 for all exercises) three times a week is all the exercise she needs for this. It's just to hang onto muscle while the body drops weight - this will ensure most of the weight she loses will be fat and not muscle.

6. An hour of moderate cardio burns about what, 300 calories for a woman of average size? A pound of fat has 3500 calories. How much freaking cardio is she thinking she'll do? Short story tell her she can't cardio off her diet. She's better off just eating a little less, lifting heavy things and then going home to watch tv while continuing to eat a little less.

gixxer0.6g

Well said. Is the reason for the higher fat diet to fill you up more and keep you from getting hungry? My g/f is always trying to cut out all the fat from her diet. She's in great shape and is a very serious weight lifter. Should she be eating more fat?

Biggly

Sure, which is worse than useless on their own.

Precisely because people get discouraged by the fact the scales may not change much, despite their physique changing.

Do you actually know what you're talking about? There are 9 calories per gram of fat, 4 calories per gram of pure protein, not that a pound of sirlion is pure protein. A trimmed and lean sirloin steak is around 700 calories, if braised, so you're not far off on that but WTF is this:

???

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you mean it doesn't burn and thus reduce bodyfat, not calories? Even so, that's BS. Cardio is extremely good at burning bodyfat. The biggest problem is people rely on it too much and don't change what they're doing. If you just keep doing 20 mins of the same thing every day your body will adapt but if you mix it up, throw in some HIIT sprints and so on, it shreds fat like a lawnmower.

What? A full hour, on for example an exercise bike, and you're looking closer to 700. She's overweight, make it 800-900

There's some nuggets of sense in what you're saying but seriously dude, read the stickies or something.



B.

Biggly Bodybuilding Software 1/2 price for May "The sensation of hunger can often be alleviated and even mitigated entirely with the consumption of food.[citation needed]" Wiki

Built

Not really. Women bloat a lot, and our weight fluctuates - but once you understand this it's easy to manage around. Put it this way - you gain three pounds overnight, it's water. You gain three pounds over two weeks and don't see the scale drop off - you're gaining fat.

The scale really does tell you most of it. If the scale isn't moving and it's been two months, what do YOU think is going on?
Recall I began by saying I was about to tell you a good lie? It's a good lie. Don't try to cardio off your weight. I pretend cardio burns NOTHING. That way I'm not thinking "oh, I had a cheeseburger. I'll go for a run and it'll be GONE!"

If you go to the USDA nutrient database, you'll note that a pound of raw sirloin has about 700 calories. A pound of bison has about 500. Bison's leaner. Let's split the difference and call it 600 calories in a pound of muscle-meat.

A pound of bodyfat holds about 3500 calories.

Suppose you diet wrong and overtrain. Where a 3500 calorie deficit could burn off only ONE pound of bodyweight, you could, at least in theory, burn off almost 6 pounds of muscle.

Welcome to math class.


You can't seriously think HIIT will lean out an obese woman. You can't.
If she's obese, she won't be able to keep up that kind of intensity. A 200 lb woman at a brisk walk will burn what, 200 calories in an hour? MAYBE 300? She's not going to be able to jog. If you think she's going to burn off 900 calories in an hour you're on some serious drugs. Please send me some.
I mod three bodybuilding boards. One was developed by and for a group of obese women who have and are working our ways out of obesity. I have documented my own entire process and give it away to the world for free on my blog: Got Built? ? It takes a while…

I've published articles and a monthly column on a men's bodybuilding board, and I've been an obese woman myself. I spent ten years as a fat jogger - I ran 10k 3x a week through most of my thirties trying to get my weight down.

You need to learn to read. I wasn't impolite to you. You on the other hand have acted shamefully toward me - why the venom?

Oh, by the way - I looked like thiswhen I jogged.

I looked like this and this when I followed the advice I just gave.

Sticky THAT.

Biggly

Well I do apologise, I scanned your post and didn't notice you started off admitting your post would be BS.

The woman in question wants to lose around 28lbs, so fat but not so obese she couldn't do HIIT (I always try to answer the actual thread questions, not just provide cliches).

Yep, like I said if you keep doing the same thing you get good at it as you adapt. I bet you could run for hours on a single muffin?

Regarding the scales I stick with what I said, on their own they are worse than useless. A lot of trainers will actually tell you to hide them in the basement or somewhere to stop you jumping on them and getting discouraged.

You keep on about how fat has more calories than protein (just over twice) yet seem to ignore the fact that dense muscle is around 6 times heavier for the same volume?

You gain a square inch of muscle and lose an inch of fat and your weight will go up, not down.

Weight is not the issue, body composition is what matters. A weight scale is a useful tool only if you can get in the habit of using it in conjunction with other methods. On its own it will discourage newbies.

I'm pleased for you that you discovered that weight training is a powerful means of fat loss, and I truly didn't notice that you were expressing a way to look at it rather than presenting facts. I mean no offence but when someone posts "cardio doesn't burn calories" I'd be doing the OP and everyone else a disservice to let that go.

As a mindset, concentrating on more bodybuilderish techniques instead of Womens Weekly's advice of eat lettuce and cardio until you drop, then sure. We're on the same page.

That doesn't mean to say the OPs wife should just ignore cardio though. It does work, IF you mix it up a bit. Dude.



B.

Biggly Bodybuilding Software 1/2 price for May "The sensation of hunger can often be alleviated and even mitigated entirely with the consumption of food.[citation needed]" Wiki

Built

I've been 28 lbs overweight. Hell, I've been FORTY pounds overweight lol!

I would NOT have an overweight, out of shape woman doing HIIT. I hate cardio so much I wrote an entire article on it, including a protocol for easing INTO HIIT. You should read it.

It was also published on WBB, along with some of my other stuff.


SOME cardio can be beneficial for health and conditioning - it just isn't an effective way to lean out.

It's a great addition to overall conditioning, don't get me wrong: I do sprint intervals, bicycle intervals and complexes each once a week - I know they're excellent as an adjunct to an overall fitness protocol. But flat out, diet is key here. She needs to get leaner and fitter before the HIGH intensity interval work will be of benefit.

I'd ease her into it with lower intensity interval work, things like hill repeats to bring up her heart stroke. Read my article, you'll see what I mean. If you go to the end, you'll see I have a sample month of lifting, cardio and diet all worked out.

Hell! I ran for hours on my own bodyfat. Thing is I just kept replacing it - cardio makes me hungry. Does this to a lot of people, in fact.

Not me, not on MY board. And I've helped hundreds if not thousands of people - mostly women - lose weight. If you don't weigh you simply do not know. And with the misinformation surrounding what level of recomposition is possible, it's very easy to get bogged down without the facts.