essential fatty acids from fish oil is it better then flaxseed

AKIRA · 10-08-2008, 11:25 AM

Ive got a question..

Say you do buy a "cheaper" fish oil and its gone "rancid." Are the pills now 100% useless? Dare I ask, do they harm you?

Just curious about if there is SOME benefit to buying the cheap stuff. As opposed to not having ANY at all...

WillBrink · 10-08-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReproMan

Mine fall somewhere in the middle of the 2. I paid 25 bucks for 400. I understand the health benefits and the importance of the quality, it's just hard for me to justify paying 350% more for a supplement. The input is appreciated all around though. Thanks guys.

I'm about to do a blog post that talks about this, but the cost differences are often not what you think they are. As with any supps, you have to compare actual labels. Quality issues not withstanding, as mentioned prior, do you actually look at the % of active lipids? There is right out of my Fat Loss Revealed ebook:

Studies have used doses that are quite variable, so no exact dose is known in terms of optimal effects on fat loss, but 6 - 10 g/day (assuming 30% EPA + DHA) is a starting point. So, a 1000mg (1g) softgell cap of fish oil, would be approximately 180mg of EPA and 120mg of DHA, assuming the general rule of 30% total active lipids. Fish oil comes as 60/40 EPA to DHA.

I would recommend at least approximately 6g (6 1000mg caps) fish oils giving you a total of 1800mg of active lipids per day assuming 30% of 6g is EPA and DHA, but you must read the labels for exact numbers. Looking at specific brands for example:

Puritan's Pride uses a 1200mg cap, each containing 360mg total active lipids. You would need 5 caps to = 1800mg total active lipids.

Looking at The Life Extension Foundation: They use a 1000mg cap that gives 600mg total active lipids per cap, which means you would need 3 caps to equal the recommended 1800mg above.

Looking at Nordic Naturals, they use a 1000mg cap that gives a total of 275mg of active lipids per cap, so you will need 6-7 caps per day

Looking at Carlson's, they use a 1000mg cap that gives a total of 320mg of active Omega-3 lipids, so you would need 5-6 caps of this product.

ReproMan · 10-08-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

I'm about to do a blog post that talks about this, but the cost differences are often not what you think they are. As with any supps, you have to compare actual labels. Quality issues not withstanding, as mentioned prior, do you actually look at the % of active lipids? There is right out of my Fat Loss Revealed ebook:

Studies have used doses that are quite variable, so no exact dose is known in terms of optimal effects on fat loss, but 6 - 10 g/day (assuming 30% EPA + DHA) is a starting point. So, a 1000mg (1g) softgell cap of fish oil, would be approximately 180mg of EPA and 120mg of DHA, assuming the general rule of 30% total active lipids. Fish oil comes as 60/40 EPA to DHA.

I would recommend at least approximately 6g (6 1000mg caps) fish oils giving you a total of 1800mg of active lipids per day assuming 30% of 6g is EPA and DHA, but you must read the labels for exact numbers. Looking at specific brands for example:

Puritan's Pride uses a 1200mg cap, each containing 360mg total active lipids. You would need 5 caps to = 1800mg total active lipids.

Looking at The Life Extension Foundation: They use a 1000mg cap that gives 600mg total active lipids per cap, which means you would need 3 caps to equal the recommended 1800mg above.

Looking at Nordic Naturals, they use a 1000mg cap that gives a total of 275mg of active lipids per cap, so you will need 6-7 caps per day

Looking at Carlson's, they use a 1000mg cap that gives a total of 320mg of active Omega-3 lipids, so you would need 5-6 caps of this product.

VERY good to know. I'll have to check that out when I get home. Thanks Will!

**Built** · 10-08-2008, 01:51 PM

Okay, so I take 10g for 3g combined EPA/DHA.

I'd need 5 caps a day of the LE instead of 10. I'd be happy to pay double for this, but any more and it's not worth it.

WillBrink · 10-08-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Okay, so I take 10g for 3g combined EPA/DHA.

I'd need 5 caps a day of the LE instead of 10. I'd be happy to pay double for this, but any more and it's not worth it.

Fair enough. Everyone has to draw their own line. However, if you are a member (worth every penny) and buy 4 bottles at a time, prices drop dramatically. Add to that the known quality, and it's a no brainer to me. I don't know if all said and done if the cost analysis/break even is between what you pay and the above factors, but it would probably be much closer than you think. As mentioned, me, I don't trust or eat anything i can't personally confirm/vouch for, and I don't trust the purchaser at Wally World or any other mega store to put quality and my health in front of their profit. I know the owner of the LEF well, and he's a man who believes in his mission. If that aint an endorsement - and a non paid one at that - I don't know what is.

WillBrink · 10-08-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Ive got a question..

Say you do buy a "cheaper" fish oil and its gone "rancid." Are the pills now 100% useless? Dare I ask, do they harm you?

Yes, they would be harmful to your health. You have added a number of "what if's" however that may not be true. That is, don't assume because it's cheaper = rancid, or assume more expensive fish oil could not be. My personal reasons/logic for going with more expensive brands are outlined, but no one here seems to be falling over dead from their use of less expensive fish oil supps.

But yes, if you suspect any brand of fish oil supp is no good for some reason, throw it out. That's one of the supps that do "go bad" where as say an old can of whey or creatine would not do you any harm in the least.

FishOrCutBait · 10-08-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I don't think so!

Kirkland Signature fish supply comes from deep ocean waters. Our fish oil is not supplied from farm-raised fish. State-of-the-art molecular distillation process is used to remove mercury, PCBs and dioxins, which guarantees purity and potency with reduced fish odor, on all Kirkland Signature fish oil products. The fish oil is derived from a variety of fish species, to maximize omega-3 fatty acid concentration.

No Artificial Colors No Artificial Flavors No Yeast, Starch or Gluten

Supplement Facts: Serving Size: 1 Softgel Each Softgel Contains - % Daily Value: Calories 10 (Calories from Fat 10), Total Fat 1 g - 2%*, Saturated Fat 0.5 g - 3%*, Polyunsaturated Fat 0.5 g - **, Monounsaturated Fat 0 g - **, Cholesterol 10 mg - 3%, Natural Fish Oil Concentrate 1000 mg [Containing EPA (Eicosapentaenoic Acid) 180 mg, DHA (Docosahexaenoic Acid) 120 mg] - **.

Sounds like fish oil to me. plus, 3 months for 26 bucks is a freaking steal

WillBrink · 10-08-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishOrCutBait

Sounds like fish oil to me. plus, 3 months for 26 bucks is a freaking steal

At approx 30% active lipids in this product, you will need at least 6 caps per day to get the recommended dose, so that may not be an actual 3 month supply if getting what's actually recommended. If you took 1g (1 cap) per day from a bottle with 120 caps, that will last you 3 months, but it's not a dose that will do much for you. So, always make sure to do the math to confirm it's as good a deal as you think it is...

danzik17 · 10-08-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

Yes, they would be harmful to your health. You have added a number of "what if's" however that may not be true. That is, don't assume because it's cheaper = rancid, or assume more expensive fish oil could not be. My personal reasons/logic for going with more expensive brands are outlined, but no one here seems to be falling over dead from their use of less expensive fish oil supps.

But yes, if you suspect any brand of fish oil supp is no good for some reason, throw it out. That's one of the supps that do "go bad" where as say an old can of whey or creatine would not do you any harm in the least.

Is there a good way to know if it's gone bad? Kind of hard since it is in capsules. I ask because I have a bunch of ATW fish oil sitting around that I've been using.

**Built** · 10-08-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishOrCutBait

I just bought 1200 caps of fish oil from costco for 25 bucks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Not bad for a four-month supply, hey?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishOrCutBait

Kirkland Signature fish supply comes from deep ocean waters. Our fish oil is not supplied from farm-raised fish. State-of-the-art molecular distillation process is used to remove mercury, PCBs and dioxins, which guarantees purity and potency with reduced fish odor, on all Kirkland Signature fish oil products. The fish oil is derived from a variety of fish species, to maximize omega-3 fatty acid concentration.

No Artificial Colors No Artificial Flavors No Yeast, Starch or Gluten

Supplement Facts: Serving Size: 1 Softgel Each Softgel Contains - % Daily Value: Calories 10 (Calories from Fat 10), Total Fat 1 g - 2%*, Saturated Fat 0.5 g - 3%*, Polyunsaturated Fat 0.5 g - **, Monounsaturated Fat 0 g - **, Cholesterol 10 mg - 3%, Natural Fish Oil Concentrate 1000 mg [Containing EPA (Eicosapentaenoic Acid) 180 mg, DHA (Docosahexaenoic Acid) 120 mg] - **.

Sounds like fish oil to me. plus, 3 months for 26 bucks is a freaking steal

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

At approx 30% active lipids in this product, you will need at least 6 caps per day to get the recommended dose, so that may not be an actual 3 month supply if getting what's actually recommended. If you took 1g (1 cap) per day from a bottle with 120 caps, that will last you 3 months, but it's not a dose that will do much for you. So, always make sure to do the math to confirm it's as good a deal as you think it is...

Indeed - but FishOrCutBait got 1200 caps, not 120.

1200 caps will give him 10 caps a day for 120 days.

Smokin' deal!

WillBrink · 10-08-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

Is there a good way to know if it's gone bad? Kind of hard since it is in capsules. I ask because I have a bunch of ATW fish oil sitting around that I've been using.

Not really, which is why i tend to start with the brands I trust. You could break open a cap, and rancid fish oil will have a stronger fish oder, but that's not a very scientific test.

WillBrink · 10-08-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Indeed - but FishOrCutBait got 1200 caps, not 120.

1200 caps will give him 10 caps a day for 120 days.

Smokin' deal!

That's a smokin' deal, agreed!

AKIRA · 10-08-2008, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

Yes, they would be harmful to your health. You have added a number of "what if's" however that may not be true. That is, don't assume because it's cheaper = rancid, or assume more expensive fish oil could not be. My personal reasons/logic for going with more expensive brands are outlined, but no one here seems to be falling over dead from their use of less expensive fish oil supps.

But yes, if you suspect any brand of fish oil supp is no good for some reason, throw it out. That's one of the supps that do "go bad" where as say an old can of whey or creatine would not do you any harm in the least.

I honestly didnt think it would be all that harmful to a person, I was just exploring the spectrum.

However, I can see that some fish oil is better than nothing. Worse thing it would do is hit the wallet.

scandalous1 · 11-10-2008, 11:51 AM

I started fish oil caps a few months ago, got some from CVS (pharmacy) that were Natrol, 1000mg and was taking 2 a day. I did more reading on them (on this site) and noticed that the amounts of EPA-DHA were pretty low in those caps (EPA- 180mg, DHA- 120mg). I ran out of my multi-vitamin so as I was replacing them, I picked up some new fish oil caps. I got them at the vitamin shoppe. They are the house brand, Mega Fish Oil:

molecularly distilled
Marine Lipid Concentrate 1100mg
EPA 600mg
DHA 240mg
dosage is one a day
it was ~ $13.99 for 60

also mentions MEG-3 trust the source trademarks of Ocean Nutrition Canada

does this dosage sound right?

**Built** · 11-10-2008, 11:55 AM

I take enough fish oil to provide 3g (3000 mg) of combined EPA/DHA.

That would mean four a day of the ones you just bought, or 10 regular cheapy Costco caps. I think we pay about 14 bucks for 300, a month's supply.

scandalous1 · 11-10-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I take enough fish oil to provide 3g (3000 mg) of combined EPA/DHA.

That would mean four a day of the ones you just bought, or 10 regular cheapy Costco caps. I think we pay about 14 bucks for 300, a month's supply.

Now I understand thanks!

**Built** · 11-10-2008, 12:52 PM

If you're wondering about the "3g combined EPA/DHA" part, it's the highest dose the uber-conservative AHA says is safe to take without a doctor's supervision. I weigh 140 lbs soaking wet and that's the amount I take. I have a sneaking suspicion a bigger person can safely take more - certainly this has been done by others in the industry - Cressey for example suggests 3-6g EPA/DHA
http://www.ericcressey.com/fishyadvice2.html

scandalous1 · 11-10-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

If you're wondering about the "3g combined EPA/DHA" part, it's the highest dose the uber-conservative AHA says is safe to take without a doctor's supervision. I weigh 140 lbs soaking wet and that's the amount I take. I have a sneaking suspicion a bigger person can safely take more - certainly this has been done by others in the industry - Cressey for example suggests 3-6g EPA/DHA
http://www.ericcressey.com/fishyadvice2.html

Ok cool, thanks for the reply! I'm going to up my dosage a bit and see how that goes. Thanks for the advice!

10-08-2008, 11:25 AM	#31
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 8,747 Photos: 3	Ive got a question.. Say you do buy a "cheaper" fish oil and its gone "rancid." Are the pills now 100% useless? Dare I ask, do they harm you? Just curious about if there is SOME benefit to buying the cheap stuff. As opposed to not having ANY at all... 6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 365 (12/3) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

10-08-2008, 01:51 PM	#34
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,064	Okay, so I take 10g for 3g combined EPA/DHA. I'd need 5 caps a day of the LE instead of 10. I'd be happy to pay double for this, but any more and it's not worth it. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

11-10-2008, 11:51 AM	#44
scandalous1 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NOVA Posts: 24	I started fish oil caps a few months ago, got some from CVS (pharmacy) that were Natrol, 1000mg and was taking 2 a day. I did more reading on them (on this site) and noticed that the amounts of EPA-DHA were pretty low in those caps (EPA- 180mg, DHA- 120mg). I ran out of my multi-vitamin so as I was replacing them, I picked up some new fish oil caps. I got them at the vitamin shoppe. They are the house brand, Mega Fish Oil: molecularly distilled Marine Lipid Concentrate 1100mg EPA 600mg DHA 240mg dosage is one a day it was ~ $13.99 for 60 also mentions MEG-3 trust the source trademarks of Ocean Nutrition Canada does this dosage sound right? Last edited by scandalous1 : 11-10-2008 at 11:52 AM. Reason: added price

11-10-2008, 11:55 AM	#45
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,064	I take enough fish oil to provide 3g (3000 mg) of combined EPA/DHA. That would mean four a day of the ones you just bought, or 10 regular cheapy Costco caps. I think we pay about 14 bucks for 300, a month's supply. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

11-10-2008, 12:52 PM	#47
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,064	If you're wondering about the "3g combined EPA/DHA" part, it's the highest dose the uber-conservative AHA says is safe to take without a doctor's supervision. I weigh 140 lbs soaking wet and that's the amount I take. I have a sneaking suspicion a bigger person can safely take more - certainly this has been done by others in the industry - Cressey for example suggests 3-6g EPA/DHA http://www.ericcressey.com/fishyadvice2.html Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode