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Ex-CIA chief: Obama risks national security

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CORUM said:
DALE MABRY, i will leave you with one question. have you ever been over there a shoot one of those little dipshits with a bomb strapped to them??? have you had those fuckers blow you up?? did you have a 7 year old throw a grenade at you?? have you actually even been there??? if not then your sympathy for them is of ignorance, and you know nothing about any of it except what you see on the news. so for all of you saying what was done was too harsh, go over there and learn first hand what needs to be done. you talk a big game, about "i'll shoot them, waterboard them, pull toenails out" make yourself feel hard until you actually have to do those things and then live with the dreams every night, and come back paranoid about everything, and you don't feel safe EVER. tell me how it is??? oh wait you don't live with that??? and then come back and have some arabic sympathising bitch, whore call you a baby killer. as of now i do not see to many people on here that have first hand knowledge about anything, yet they talk out of their ass!!!! IGNORANCE
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I agree, I will never know how that feels, but I do know that I would feel alot better about what I did if I just went there, shot the enemy in battle, and went about my business. Now, if I had gone there, captured the enemy, then started to torture them, I would probably have a hard time sleeping at night. I am not saying you did this, I am saying that I personally would have no problem with going over there if I thought what I did was just. Taking a defenseless person and causing bodily injury to them (I do not consider psychological shit like caterpillars and cultural taboo stuff as torture) is something I would have a hard time performing or supporting. But that's just my opinion. I am 100% sure that if I had a child and one of those fuckers executed them that I would be on the first plane over there looking for blood, and then I would await my day in court.
 
busyLivin said:
That seems to be a favorite liberal line lately.. I know I heard the loon Tim Robbins say that.

To suggest I can't love my country unless I served in the military is pretty arrogant, not to mention ridiculous. It's only a coward's tactic...
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Who the phuq is Tim Robbins, and I'd tell him the same phuquin thing.

No, a coward says he loves America, but doesn't do a damn thing for the country he proclaims to love so much, especially in the time of war.
 
President Holds Open Door For Prosecutions of Bush Officials For Interrogation Policies, Truth Commission - Political Punch

President Holds Open Door For Prosecutions of Bush Officials For Interrogation Policies, Truth Commission
President Obama suggested today that it remained a possibility that the Justice Department might bring charges against officials of the Bush administration who devised harsh interrogation policies that some see as torture.

He also suggested that if there is any sort of investigation into these past policies and practices, he would be more inclined to support an independent commission outside the typical congressional hearing process.

Both statements represented breaks from previous White House statements on the matter.

While the Bush-era memos providing legal justifications for enhanced interrogation methods "reflected us losing our moral bearings," the president said, he also that he did not think it was "appropriate" to prosecute those CIA officers who "carried out some of these operations within the four corners of the legal opinions or guidance that had been provided by the White House."
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Moondogg said:
Sorry, I know as a typical american you find it difficult to care about anything other than yourself. And there is a huge difference between starting a war and trying to protect human rights.

Also, it wont be in the French interest to trade with you for much longer, in 15years time you will not be the super power that you are now. Well see how little you care then.
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Looks who is stereotyping now:finger: And I love the touch of academic snobbery...especially when its just a BA from a student who has 2 full years before graduating:roflmao: II guess, I can understand you trying to defend yourself though, but look at the context here...ie the forum demographics.

Nothing wrong with admitting that one still has a lot to learn.

And it will be in France's best interest to trade with us...for at least 15 years. People point to BRIC nation states as up and coming...and how they are starting to bring the world back to non unipolar state, but lets look at the gross numbers...look at the US's GDP in comparison to every other country. Look at its record of patent generation and innovation...while we may not single handily dominate these indicators, we certainly reside at the top.
 
lnvanry said:
Looks who is stereotyping now:finger: And I love the touch of academic snobbery...especially when its just a BA from a student who has 2 full years before graduating:roflmao: II guess, I can understand you trying to defend yourself though, but look at the context here...ie the forum demographics.

Nothing wrong with admitting that one still has a lot to learn.

And it will be in France's best interest to trade with us...for at least 15 years. People point to BRIC nation states as up and coming...and how they are starting to bring the world back to non unipolar state, but lets look at the gross numbers...look at the US's GDP in comparison to every other country. Look at its record of patent generation and innovation...while we may not single handily dominate these indicators, we certainly reside at the top.
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I do feel I owe an appology for that. It was said in the same context as when I was told to go to the pub and have a drink. We both took the easy route out and sterotyped. And it was not snobbery, just after two years studying economics I would like to think I know more than nothing (which is what I was told) and to be fair I am probably more educated in economics than the vast mojority of members on this board. My oponion is as educated as anyones on this topic.
 
Moondogg said:
I do feel I owe an appology for that. It was said in the same context as when I was told to go to the pub and have a drink. We both took the easy route out and sterotyped. And it was not snobbery, just after two years studying economics I would like to think I know more than nothing (which is what I was told) and to be fair I am probably more educated in economics than the vast mojority of members on this board. My oponion is as educated as anyones on this topic.
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Don't you ever...ever leave a discussion like that.

If there's one stereotype you should be proud of is the fighting spirit of an Irishman.
 
Yeah Moondog, If I was in Ireland you better believe I'd be in a pub! And if I knew you I'd buy you a beer. Shiite, the way I roll it would be many.
 
:roflmao:

You have the fight in you.

How can you go against your Piazzan from the old Country.
 
I dont lack the fighting spirit, its the ability to type intelligent posts when Im a bit stoned.;)
 
Dale Mabry said:
I agree, I will never know how that feels, but I do know that I would feel alot better about what I did if I just went there, shot the enemy in battle, and went about my business. Now, if I had gone there, captured the enemy, then started to torture them, I would probably have a hard time sleeping at night. I am not saying you did this, I am saying that I personally would have no problem with going over there if I thought what I did was just. Taking a defenseless person and causing bodily injury to them (I do not consider psychological shit like caterpillars and cultural taboo stuff as torture) is something I would have a hard time performing or supporting. But that's just my opinion. I am 100% sure that if I had a child and one of those fuckers executed them that I would be on the first plane over there looking for blood, and then I would await my day in court.
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it sounds easier than it is just going ove rthere and shooting someone, that is spoken liek someone that has never done it. especially if you have to shoot a kid the same age as your son. there is a lot more to it then people think. you will be fine at first, but after you rack up a few bodies and the adrenaline wears off (which could take months after you get back) it starts messing with your head. and everyone can say they would do this and they would do that, you never know until your tested 9 and that's a fact) i've seen soem of the hardest guys in the world break down like a bitch. the torture or whatever might have had to be done. you have to get information, and they are not going to offer it up. people are not grasping this culture. these men are born and raised, brainwashed to want to blow themself up. what kind of person thinks like that? his/hers/childs sole purpose is to blow themself up. they want to die, do you think they are going to give you any information freely????? now you catch one of these bastards, after you watched your best friend get his head blown off, anothe rfriend get mangled by an ied, guys getting legs blown off, or burned alive in a vehicle while you tried to get them out all you smelled was burning flesh, and heard the screams and there was nothing you could do. then they tell you, this guy you captured knows who is behind all this and is going to do it to more people. what would you do to get the information out of that smug fuckers face???? he looks at you all smug and wants to rub it in he has been killing your friends???? do you think making this guy lay around naked and listen to loud music for a few days is to harsh??? you make him stay on his knees on concrete for a few days, and when he goes to pass out you wake him up and make him stay awake in the same position for DAYS is too harsh???? are you serious???
 
CORUM said:
it sounds easier than it is just going ove rthere and shooting someone, that is spoken liek someone that has never done it. especially if you have to shoot a kid the same age as your son. there is a lot more to it then people think. you will be fine at first, but after you rack up a few bodies and the adrenaline wears off (which could take months after you get back) it starts messing with your head. and everyone can say they would do this and they would do that, you never know until your tested 9 and that's a fact) i've seen soem of the hardest guys in the world break down like a bitch. the torture or whatever might have had to be done. you have to get information, and they are not going to offer it up. people are not grasping this culture. these men are born and raised, brainwashed to want to blow themself up. what kind of person thinks like that? his/hers/childs sole purpose is to blow themself up. they want to die, do you think they are going to give you any information freely????? now you catch one of these bastards, after you watched your best friend get his head blown off, anothe rfriend get mangled by an ied, guys getting legs blown off, or burned alive in a vehicle while you tried to get them out all you smelled was burning flesh, and heard the screams and there was nothing you could do. then they tell you, this guy you captured knows who is behind all this and is going to do it to more people. what would you do to get the information out of that smug fuckers face???? he looks at you all smug and wants to rub it in he has been killing your friends???? do you think making this guy lay around naked and listen to loud music for a few days is to harsh??? you make him stay on his knees on concrete for a few days, and when he goes to pass out you wake him up and make him stay awake in the same position for DAYS is too harsh???? are you serious???
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Bud, I know what you speak of first hand. But what really chaps my hide is, that you and your cadre didn't have to be there. This is my whole argument.
about this war.

Have you spoken to your local DAV rep.?
 
Oh, you're in Cal. where abouts ?

That's good! they are very helpful, I do some counseling with the DAV
 
Couseling yeah??? I am in Barstow, I actually work on Ft. Irwin.

I know the guy that did all my paperwork for disability like 4 years ago, quit the VA and now works in the same building as my wife. as soon as he figured out her last name he remember exactly who I was. told her i had some issues. he remembered that for 4 years, and he only talked to me for liek 30 minutes. crazy!!!
 
bio-chem said:
alright nostradamus time to hit the pub.
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you want to be listened to and your opinion respected in a conversation where you are unwilling to extend the same courtesies. kinda sounds like a guy that really doesn't care what anyone else thinks. but sure has a lot to say about it. :nerd:

bio-chem said:
might as well be pompous.
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you've perfected this at least :clapping:
 
I have read this entire thread. Lot's of good arguments and viewpoints. I have boiled it down to two simple observations.

To Hayden I would say, if our boys were captured and subjected to these exact same 'techniques" we would be screaming foul to the UN.

Second, George W. Bush was the absolute ***WORST PRESIDENT*** ever in modern times, and deep down inside, you all know it.

Daddy's money will not save him now.
 
To Hayden I would say, if our boys were captured and subjected to these exact same 'techniques" we would be screaming foul to the UN.
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nuff said.
 
Little Wing said:
you want to be listened to and your opinion respected in a conversation where you are unwilling to extend the same courtesies. kinda sounds like a guy that really doesn't care what anyone else thinks. but sure has a lot to say about it. :nerd:



you've perfected this at least :clapping:
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this kid is an undergrad in economics and is predicting the economic fall of the US in 15 years. if there is anything i've learned about economics it is that no economic model predicting the future has ever been even remotely close especially 15 years in advance. you bet your ass i'm going to be flippant with him. if he wants respect he will have to earn it the same way every one else does.

i disagree with everyone on this board at some point or another yet there are many of you i respect. like i said if you are going to step into the ring you better be prepared to box, or have fun picking yourself up.

i'll be damned if i'm going to sit here and listen to someone who is not a US citizen monday morning quarterback our US president because he doesn't interfere when he wants him to.
 
JerseyDevil said:
I have read this entire thread. Lot's of good arguments and viewpoints. I have boiled it down to two simple observations.

To Hayden I would say, if our boys were captured and subjected to these exact same 'techniques" we would be screaming foul to the UN.

Second, George W. Bush was the absolute ***WORST PRESIDENT*** ever in modern times, and deep down inside, you all know it.

Daddy's money will not save him now.
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In the first Gulf war you don't think we had some of our boys who were captured by the iraqi's? and do you not think that our boys were subjected to worse? should we bring up the tortures sadam was known for? what sadam was known for makes what we did look like a tea party. and we did not scream foul to the UN.
 
JerseyDevil said:
I have read this entire thread. Lot's of good arguments and viewpoints. I have boiled it down to two simple observations.

To Hayden I would say, if our boys were captured and subjected to these exact same 'techniques" we would be screaming foul to the UN.

Second, George W. Bush was the absolute ***WORST PRESIDENT*** ever in modern times, and deep down inside, you all know it.

Daddy's money will not save him now.
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I genuinely feel that his litmus test isn't over yet...we'll see how Iraq turns out in 5-20 years. Right now, I'd place him in the bottom 3 since the 1900s, but not the worst. He still has a chance to move to the upper half if Iraq becomes a stable, prosperous ally.
 
why is nobody blaming clinton for anything??? it was his bills that passed for subprime loans, that helped get us to where we are now!!! he wanted to help his welfare people get into houses and look where it got us. it took time but it caught up with us. but it is easier to blame Bush. (not saying Bush was great by any means, just saying)
 
lnvanry said:
I genuinely feel that his litmus test isn't over yet...we'll see how Iraq turns out in 5-20 years. Right now, I'd place him in the bottom 3 since the 1900s, but not the worst. He still has a chance to move to the upper half if Iraq becomes a stable, prosperous ally.
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I doubt it
 
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