The complete 8 week Fat Loss Stack [Forum Archive]

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The complete 8 week Fat Loss Stack

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Posted by: Primordial

IronMag Member,

We are proud to announce the complete 8 week Fat Loss Stack (FLS)!

With the FLS, you will get –

2 bags of CLA (Conjugated linoleic acid)
2 bottles of Green Tea capsules
1 bottle of DermaTherm Target

The FLS is an 8 week stack that will ramp up your metabolism and assist in fat burning when combined with a low calorie diet and exercise program. The FLS combines three products scientifically proven to be safe and effective fat loss agents that will allow you to shed pounds of unwanted fat, more than just diet and exercise alone.

There is no hype or guess work about it. All three products in the FLS flat out work and were designed to work together synergistically.

But don’t take my word for it. Instead, take a look at the human clinical trials that demonstrate the effectiveness of these products and exactly how they work.

CLA softgels
Conjugated linoleic acid

CLA has the unique ability to create a leaner body by reducing fat storage and increasing protein retention to support lean muscle growth. CLA does this by reducing the action of GLUT-4 (insulin-responsive glucose transporter) in adipose tissue, and increasing its action in muscle tissue. This shifts glycogen storage towards muscle growth rather than fat storage. (1)

In a normal diet, we get small amounts of CLA through dairy and meat, but since most modern foods are depleted of CLA, it’s necessary to supplement with CLA to get the optimal amount for fat loss.

Our recommend dose of CLA softgels (4 per day) contains a clinically proven dose of CLA (3.4 grams).

In one study, men and women who took 3.4 g/day of CLA lost 4 lbs of fat over a 12 week period, while the placebo group gained 3 lbs of fat. (2) CLA has also demonstrated the ability to target fat loss in “problem areas” dependent upon the sex. For instance, men who took 4.2 g/day of CLA for 4 weeks had significant reductions of fat from the abdominal region. (3) Another study with overweight women showed a significant and targeted reduction of fat tissue around the thighs. (4)

CLA has been shown to provide these benefits without any side effects after long-term use and is safe for both men and women.

The FLS includes two bags of CLA softgels, which is an 8 week supply at 4 capsules per day.

Green Tea capsules
100% Pesticide free Green Tea

Green tea has been well established as a safe and effective thermogenic fat loss agent. However, most green tea pills on the market use generic green tea extract from China which is practically guaranteed to have high levels of endocrine disrupting pesticides and other dangerous contaminates (due to the lack of federal regulation against pesticide use and the highly polluted plantation soil in China).

When we created our Green Tea caps we searched for the purest green tea in the world and found Nutriscience InnovaTea™ -- an organic compliant and 100% pesticide free green tea extract sourced from India, analyzed to be 100% free of contamination.

In addition, our green tea is standardized for an effective dose of polyphenols, catechins and EGCG. Just two capsules of green tea contain the same dose of catechins used in several human studies in which men and women taking green tea lost twice as much body fat as the non-green tea group. (5)

Our green tea also has a very small amount of naturally occurring caffeine, making it virtually stimulant free. This makes it the perfect product for those who are sensitive to stimulant related side-effects. No insomnia. No rapid heart rate. No jitters.

The FLS includes 2 bottles of Green Tea capsules, which is an 8 week supply at 3 capsules per day.

DermaTherm Target
A topical fat loss cream

DermaTherm Target is a unique topical fat loss cream that is active directly at the site of application. This makes it a perfect solution for targeting specific “problem areas” that normally would be difficult to burn off with regular diet and exercise (such as the lower abdomen in men or the thighs in women).

The main active ingredient in DermaTherm Target is theophylline. Theophylline stimulates cAMP, which ultimately increases lipase activity in the fat cell. (6,7) Lipase is the fat dissolving enzyme that breaks down fat into fatty acids so it can be used for energy. (7) Therefore, it’s important to be following a low calorie diet in order to utilize these fatty acids before they are re-deposited elsewhere.

Several human studies have confirmed the effectiveness of theophylline in reducing fat mass at the site of application during a low calorie diet. (8-11) In one study with men and women, theophylline reduced waist circumference 110% over the control group. (9) In another study, women who used theophylline cream around their thighs for 5 weeks had up to a 300% reduction in thigh circumference over the placebo group. (8)

DermaTherm Target further enhances the fat loss process with raspberry ketone and evodiamine to assist in lipolysis and lipase activity. (12,13)

The FLS includes 1 bottle of DermaTherm Target, which is an 8 week supply at 2 pumps per day.

8 Week Fat Loss Stack (FLS) Cycling Instructions

Notes:

The stack may be continued for up to 12 weeks
Apply DermaTherm Target in the morning to "problem areas" after a shower.
Split CLA dose into 2 doses per day, taken with meals.
Split Green Tea dose into 2-3 doses per day, taken with meals.

Instead of just throwing together a diluted concoction of popular ingredients, we have put together truly functional ingredients backed by real research, which produce real results.

And remember, we guarantee you will be satisfied with our products. If for any reason the FLS doesn’t live up to your expectations, just return it for a full refund (If purchased directly from Primordial Performance).

I’d like to thank you for reading this news release and supporting Primordial Performance!

Yours in health & fitness,

Eric Potratz
Primordial Founder & President

Questions?

Phone – 1-800-568-2924
Email - info@primordialperformance.com
Visit - Primordial Performance

References -

1. Conjugated linoleic acid and obesity control: efficacy and mechanisms.
YW Wang and PJ Jones
Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord, August 1, 2004; 28(8): 941-55.

2. Conjugated Linoleic Acid Reduces Body Fat Mass in Overweight and Obese Humans
Henrietta Blankson, et al.
J. Nutr., Dec 2000; 130: 2943 – 2948

3. Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) reduced abdominal adipose tissue in obese middle-aged men with signs of the metabolic syndrome: a randomised controlled trial.
U Riserus, et al.
Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord, Aug 2001; 25(8): 1129-3

4. Six months supplementation with conjugated linoleic acid induces regional-specific fat mass decreases in overweight and obese.
Gaullier JM et al.
Br J Nutr. 2007 Mar;97(3):550-60

5. A Green Tea Extract High in Catechins Reduces Body Fat and Cardiovascular Risks in Humans
Nagao et al.
Obesity. 2007; 15:1473-1483.

6. Fat cell lipolysis induced by theophylline in obese subjects before and after caloric restriction
G Chiodini, et al
Arch Maragliano Patol Clin, Jan 1979; 35: 7-11.

7. Adipose tissue lipase. In: Borgstro¨m, B., Brockman, H.L. (Eds.) Lipase
Belfrage, P et al
Elsevier, Amsterdam, pp. 365–416. (1984)

8. Topical Fat Reduction
Frank et al.
Obes Res. 1995;3 (Suppl 4): 561S-568S

9. Topical fat reduction from the waist.
Caruso MK, et al
Diabetes Obes Metab. 2007 May;9(3):300-3.

10. Fat reduction by topical waist applications may actually work.
GD Lundberg
Medscape J Med, Jan 2008; 10(2): 43.

11. Enhancement of transdermal delivery of theophylline using microemulsion vehicle.
Zhao X, et al.
Int J Pharm. 2006 Dec 11;327(1-2):58-64. Epub 2006 Jul 21.

12. Anti-obese action of raspberry ketone.
C Morimoto, et al.
Life Sci, May 27, 2005; 77(2): 194-204

13. Capsaicin-like anti-obese activities of evodiamine from fruits of Evodia rutaecarpa, a vanilloid receptor agonist.
Kobayashi,Y. et al.
Planta Med., 67, 628–633.(2001)

Posted by: nni

eh. cla doesnt really work, gte is excellent, but solo is more for health, the topical might show promise, but i am weary of topicals.

Posted by: Primordial

Blowout sale... Check it out -

Get the complete Fat Loss Stack for $49.95 with the code 49FATLOSS

-Eric

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by nni

eh. cla doesnt really work, gte is excellent, but solo is more for health, the topical might show promise, but i am weary of topicals.

Why do you say CLA doesnt work...? Ive got over 20 studies that show either a significant or "non-significant" benefit to CLA reducing fat mass and/or increasing lean body mass.

Would you like to try the stack?

-Eric

Posted by: Built

Primordial, do you have any studies on CLA showing these effects on trained human athletes?

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Primordial, do you have any studies on CLA showing these effects on trained human athletes?

Ive got a whole bunch on obese or non-exercising humans... and you can see a positive trend here with 18 separate CLA groups from a meta-analysis of the CLA research by the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition -

My guess is that researchers are more interested in showing CLA to have an "anti-obesity" effect rather than a "getting ripped" effect in athletes... but I did find a couple studies in training subjects -

Conjugated linoleic acid reduces body fat in healthy exercising humans.
Thom E, Wadstein J, Gudmundsen O.
J Int Med Res 2001;29:392– 6.

This study was designed to investigate the efficacy and tolerability of daily conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) in healthy exercising humans. This was a random-double-blind, placebo-controlled study in 20 healthy humans of normal body weight and body mass index less than 25.0 kg/m2, who did standardized physical exercise in a gym for 90 min three times weekly. Participants took either placebo (hydrogel) or CLA 0.6 g [corrected], three times daily, as two capsules during meals, for 12 weeks. Body fat, measured using near infrared light, was significantly reduced in the CLA group during the study, but not in the placebo group. No effects on body weight were observed. Tolerability was good and similar in the two groups. Compliance, as judged by the number of returned capsules, was more than 80% of the recommended dose for all participants. Thus CLA reduces body fat but not body weight in healthy exercising humans of normal body weight.

Here is another study in resistance trained adults -

The potential benefits of creatine and conjugated linoleic acid as adjuncts to resistance training in older adults.
MA Tarnopolsky and A Safdar
Appl Physiol Nutr Metab, February 1, 2008; 33(1): 213-27.

Human aging is associated with a significant reduction in muscle mass (sarcopenia) resulting in muscle weakness and functional limitations in the elderly. Sarcopenia has been associated with mitochondrial dysfunction and the accumulation of mtDNA deletions. Resistance training increases muscle strength and size and can increase mitochondrial capacity and decrease oxidative stress in older adults. Creatine monohydrate (CrM) and conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) have biological effects that could enhance some of the beneficial effects of resistance training in older adults (i.e., up arrow fat-free mass, down arrow total body fat). We have completed two resistance-training studies with CrM alone and CrM+CLA supplementation in older adults to evaluate the independent effects of exercise and dietary supplements, as well as their interactive effects. Our studies, and several others, have found that CrM enhanced the resistance exercise mediated gains in fat-free mass and strength. More recently, we found that the addition of CLA also lead to a significant reduction of body fat after six months of resistance training in older adults. Older adults have fewer wild-type mtDNA copies and higher amounts of mtDNA deletions as compared with younger adults in mature skeletal muscle; however, these deletions are not seen in the satellite cell-derived myoblast cultures. These findings, and the fact that mtDNA deletions are lower and wild-type mtDNA copy number is higher after resistance training in older adults, suggests that activation of satellite cells secondary to resistance exercise-induced muscle damage can dilute or "shift" the proportion of mtDNA genotype towards that of a younger adult. Recent evidence suggests that CrM supplementation in combination with strength training can enhance satellite cell activation and total myonuclei number per muscle fiber in young men. Future studies are required to determine whether the mitochondrial adaptations to resistance exercise in older adults are further enhanced with CrM supplementation and whether this is due to increased recruitment of satellite cells. It will also be important to determine whether these changes are maintained over a longer time period.

Overall, Id say the research is pretty dang solid on CLA.

-Eric

Posted by: Primordial

I posted the wrong link above... here is the right one -

Get the complete Fat Loss Stack for $49.95 with the code 49FATLOSS

-Eric

Posted by: Built

How much difference in fat loss was deemed significant? Because statistically, this only means that the between-group variability was large enough - given the sample size - to show an effect beyond random noise.

Put it this way - a one-ounce difference in fat mass may very well be significant, but I might not be willing to fork out the 400 bucks' worth of CLA to achieve it.

I'll be interested to see the magnitude of the difference.

Posted by: nni

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

i read the studies, and it is promising, but i have never once seen results in real life mimic those studies. i have tried, i have had others try, i even had someone mega dose cla, and nothing.

would i like to try the stack? if you put it exactly how you think it would work, then sure, that way, my input is simply results.

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

How much difference in fat loss was deemed significant? Because statistically, this only means that the between-group variability was large enough - given the sample size - to show an effect beyond random noise.

Im not sure the statistical parameters for each study in the meta-analysis, but the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition concluded that "CLA has a modest effect on fat loss and lean muscle gain"... which is actually a pretty significant thing to hear from a publication as conservative as the AJCN.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Put it this way - a one-ounce difference in fat mass may very well be significant, but I might not be willing to fork out the 400 bucks' worth of CLA to achieve it.

It should only cost you about $30 for a 12 week supply.

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by nni

Well i could offer you a 12 week supply.

Would you run some sort of cutting diet with these products?

-Eric

Posted by: Built

Again, I'd like to see a parametrization of "modest".

I have tried CLA, and noticed nothing. It was tonalin, and I took more than suggested, but perhaps it wasn't enough.

Posted by: nni

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

Well i could offer you a 12 week supply.

Would you run some sort of cutting diet with these products?

-Eric

12 weeks is a bit much, but very generous. how about 4 weeks, would there be noticable results in this time frame? yep, if you want me to do it, i would obviously be doing a cut diet with a focus on cardio to maximize results.

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Again, I'd like to see a parametrization of "modest".

I have tried CLA, and noticed nothing. It was tonalin, and I took more than suggested, but perhaps it wasn't enough.

How long did you use it for? The research shows that 8 weeks is the minimum to really notice anything...

Theoretically, (if all variables remained constant) had you not used the CLA you would have gained a lb of fat, but since you used it you lost a lb of fat. Would you be able to notice 1lb of fat loss in 8 weeks? Probably not by just looking in the mirror...

-Eric

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by nni

Well I dont think you would notice results from just the CLA in only 4 weeks, but you would from the Grean Tea/Dermatherm combo... so maybe 8 weeks would be a good run.

What do you say?

-Eric

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

Okay, well, doing the math here… it's $30 for a 12-week supply. I'd lose one pound in 8 weeks, so that's 2 ounces a week. In 12 weeks - assuming the rate of loss remains linear over that period, I'd lose 24 ounces, or a pound and a half.

Basically we're talking twenty dollars for a one-pound loss over two months.

3500 calories divided by 60 days works out to a deficit of about 60 calories a day. I could eat 60 calories less a day and save myself 20 bucks a month.

Am I missing something?

Setting that aside, the raspberry ketones look interesting. How has the feedback been on that one?

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

The subjects in most of these studies didn’t reduce caloric intake. They simply kept on with the same diet, and lost more fat and gained more muscle than the group not using the CLA.

CLA repartitions the nutrient storage by GLUT4 modulation. It basically shirts storage of glycogen to muscle tissue instead of fat tissue. (triglyceride conversion > adipose tissue) Its not an effect you could mimic by just reducing calories.

The raspberry ketones is in the DermaTherm Target. The feedback on this product has actually been great. People are noticing improvements in definition within 3-4 weeks on this product. (although the results will continue to improve upto 12 weeks)

-Eric

Posted by: nni

so essentially they recomped at a caloric plateau? that would be interesting to do 4 week cut, 4 week close to maintenance. i could swing that.

Posted by: Built

Quite honestly, since it enhances recompositon without a deficit, I'd prefer to run it that way, too. We don't know that we could take full advantage of it while cutting. Must cutting supps make bulking WORSE, not better.

The derma product looks really interesting! Would it be best used pre-cardio, in a caloric deficit?

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by nni

so essentially they recomped at a caloric plateau? that would be interesting to do 4 week cut, 4 week close to maintenance. i could swing that.

Yes, but you would obviously burn a lot more fat below maintenance if your goal is to cut.

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Quite honestly, since it enhances recompositon without a deficit, I'd prefer to run it that way, too. We don't know that we could take full advantage of it while cutting. Must cutting supps make bulking WORSE, not better.

The derma product looks really interesting! Would it be best used pre-cardio, in a caloric deficit?

You need the caloric deficit to allow the DermaTherm Target to work to its full effect. It’s going to increase the circulation of free fatty acids, so if you aren’t in a caloric deficit the fatty acids will just get redistributed.

So if you are going to use the whole stack (CLA, DermaTherm, Green Tea) I would suggest a caloric deficit for sure.

-Eric

Posted by: Built

Because CLA enhances reglycogenation and improves insulin sensitivity, I'd pass on that one until I'm at maintenance, or bulking. Insulin sensitivity is the LAST thing I want in a deficit!

I'm very interested in the transdermal though - and of course green tea is never a bad addition while cutting.

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Because CLA enhances reglycogenation and improves insulin sensitivity, I'd pass on that one until I'm at maintenance, or bulking. Insulin sensitivity is the LAST thing I want in a deficit!

Why do you say that?

-Eric

Posted by: chronicelite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

Would you like to try the stack?

-Eric

Are you giving away some stacks?

I am beginning a low carbohydrate cut right now... I am an experienced cutter and could provide a full detailed log with pictures, diet, routine and even videos if required.

Posted by: Built

Because insulin resistance helps preserve lean mass.

Part of how growth hormone works is the promotion of insulin resistance. By limiting reglycogenation, glucose is spared for the brain and the energy substrate is shifted from glycogen to triglyceride.

For a bulking athlete, insulin sensitivity is what you want, because the enhanced GLUT4 means improved calorie partitioning.

The story changes while cutting. On less food than is required, insulin resistance makes it makes it harder to store fat. It makes it harder to burn glycogen because there's less glycogen to be had, thus forcing the body to oxidize fat for fuel. In this way, on a deficit, insulin resistance is muscle-sparing.

In a deficit, the only time I want improved insulin sensitivity is for carbups. That's why for example Lyle uses a tension workout just before the carbups for UD2.0.

Posted by: chronicelite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

Why do you say that?

-Eric

Insulin sensitivity during times for example late at night, may promote fat gain. IMO.... I think that is Built's opinion as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Because insulin resistance helps preserve lean mass.

Part of how growth hormone works is the promotion of insulin resistance. By limiting reglycogenation, glucose is spared for the brain and the energy substrate is shifted from glycogen to triglyceride.

For a bulking athlete, insulin sensitivity is what you want, because the enhanced GLUT4 means improved calorie partitioning.

The story changes while cutting. On less food than is required, insulin resistance makes it harder to burn glycogen, forcing the body to oxidize fat for fuel. In this way, on a deficit, insulin resistance is muscle-sparing.

In a deficit, the only time I want improved insulin sensitivity is for carbups. That's why for example Lyle uses a tension workout just before the carbups for UD2.0.

WHOOOOOOOOOOO! GO BUILT!!

Posted by: Built

I'm just spewing what I've read. If I'm wrong, I'm all ears.

Posted by: Built

The Eades might have a friendlier way of writing this out out...

Protein sparing effect | The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.

Here's one that describes growth hormone's action: Growth Hormone and Insulin Resistance

Quote:

Abstract

Background: Experimental data in human subjects demonstrate that growth hormone (GH) acutely inhibits glucose disposal in skeletal muscle. The insulin-antagonistic effects are clinically relevant since active acromegaly is accompanied by glucose intolerance, whereas children with GH deficiency may develop fasting hypoglycemia. At the same time, GH stimulates the turnover and oxidation of free fatty acids (FFAs), and there is experimental evidence to suggest a causal link between elevated FFA levels and insulin resistance in skeletal muscle.

During fasting, the induction of insulin resistance by GH is associated with enhanced lipid oxidation and protein conservation, which seems to constitute a favorable metabolic adaptation.

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Because insulin resistance helps preserve lean mass.

Part of how growth hormone works is the promotion of insulin resistance. By limiting reglycogenation, glucose is spared for the brain and the energy substrate is shifted from glycogen to triglyceride.

For a bulking athlete, insulin sensitivity is what you want, because the enhanced GLUT4 means improved calorie partitioning.

The story changes while cutting. On less food than is required, insulin resistance makes it makes it harder to store fat. It makes it harder to burn glycogen because there's less glycogen to be had, thus forcing the body to oxidize fat for fuel. In this way, on a deficit, insulin resistance is muscle-sparing.

In a deficit, the only time I want improved insulin sensitivity is for carbups. That's why for example Lyle uses a tension workout just before the carbups for UD2.0.

Interesting info.. I agree with some of it, but I think its a bit more complicated than that... Ill wont say anything though because I know if I do Ill be in this thread for a week straight!

-Eric

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronicelite

I think I might be working with Built on a sponsored log, but shoot me a PM if your interested.

-Eric

Posted by: rahaas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

I think I might be working with Built on a sponsored log, but shoot me a PM if your interested.

-Eric

I'm watching this one for sure (and currently already using this stack)!

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

Interesting info.. I agree with some of it, but I think its a bit more complicated than that... Ill wont say anything though because I know if I do Ill be in this thread for a week straight!

-Eric

ROFLMFAO! Fair enough. I agree CLA's good shit - I'll take it, but at maintenance, later on. I am so insulin resistant, on a bulk, I need all the help I can get!

It would be interesting to know how long it takes for CLA to have its insulin sensitizing effect - if it happened acutely, I'd take it for carbups.

But I promise, I am NOT trying to suck you in to more speculation. The transdermal is the part I'm the most interested in.

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Sure, understood. YGPM.

-Eric

Posted by: Stewart14

can anyone explain to me the difference between CLA and r-ALA? I thought that the r-ALA was a good nutrient partitioner as well, and if so, what's the difference?

Posted by: rahaas

One is a protein and the other is a fat.

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

can anyone explain to me the difference between CLA and r-ALA? I thought that the r-ALA was a good nutrient partitioner as well, and if so, what's the difference?

Alpha lipoic acid - mimicks insulin and drive nutrients into muscle cells.

CLA - a fatty acid involved in GLUT4 metabolism and fat cell apoptosis.. much different stuff… and possibly synergistic with the former.

-Eric

Posted by: Built

Okay, the fat cell apoptosis is interesting. I didn't know anything could do that.

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Okay, the fat cell apoptosis is interesting. I didn't know anything could do that.

Yes, it was proposed that the up-regulation of TNF-a causes the apoptosis of fat cells in rats, which was shown to also influence human fat cells in-vitro. You probably won’t ever see an in-vivo study examining CLA and fat cell apoptosis in humans though. [unless the researchers perform liposuction on the subjects to examine DNA fragmentation]

-Eric

Posted by: chronicelite

So how about supplying a 8 week stack for me to log

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronicelite

So how about supplying a 8 week stack for me to log

Im sure we can work something out. You got PM

-Eric

Posted by: jmorrison

Eric,

Built has been working with me for about 6 months on weight loss, and I am about to start a hard 10 week cut. If you are interested in a logger and are willing to negotiate the price, I would be thrilled to try this.

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmorrison

Eric,

Built has been working with me for about 6 months on weight loss, and I am about to start a hard 10 week cut. If you are interested in a logger and are willing to negotiate the price, I would be thrilled to try this.

We are well covered on loggers now, but...

This $49.95 deal is running until the 1st of July, so I would jump on that. It is the best deal we have ever offered for the FLS.

Thanks.

-Eric

Posted by: MaxGolf

last day everyone. jump on it now

Posted by: Trauma1

Any feedback from those that are currently using our FLS?

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