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The NHE and ONE - cut and bulk

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Posted by: Robboe

This isn't a proper journal as such, just a little way for you guys to get an idea of the gist of NHE. I'd prefer it if it stayed in the diet forum.

Here's a brief run down:

There usually begins a 7-day 'metabolic shift', where you keep carbs at 20g or below and have no carb load. This moves you from a 'sugar burner' to a 'fat burner', as Rob Faigan calls it. I've actually been on a cyclical carb diet since last July (2001) and i've been doing an NHE modification for the past 10 weeks. I'm not doing the full metabolic shift. I see no need to - all it would give me is further thyroid shutdown, even lower leptin, slow my metabolism and make me loose strength - all for very little in beneficial effects.

And i've said it before and i'll say it again, I personally think the 7 day metabolic shift is only for people who use carbs as their major macronutrient - ie someone who has at least 30% of cals coming from carbs everyday and also for everyday people who also tend to get the majority of their cals from carbs (usually sugary ones).




Anyway, here's what i'm eating:

Non-training days:

1. Tin tuna
3 tsp oil

2. 60g chicken breast
144g cottage cheese
20g cashews
green veg

3. Tin tuna
3 tsp oil

4. 60g chicken breast
144g cottage cheese
25g cashews
green veg

5. 5 egg whites, 4 whole eggs

6. Tin tuna
3 tsp oil


Training days:

1. 4 egg whites, 2 whole eggs

2. 60g chicken
94g cottage cheese
15g cashews
green veg

3. 4 scoops simply whey
1 fluid oz whipping cream

4. tin tuna
1oz cream (or 3 tsp oil)

5. 60g chicken
100g cottage cheese
15g cashews

6. Tin tuna
2 tsp oil

7. 200g serloin steak
green veg


Yeah, it's the same food everyday, but i'm quite hardcore as far as diet is concerned - i'm willing to do whatever it takes. Bland, repetative and boring though it maybe.

My carb loads are bi-weekly and will be on saturday nights, which is the night before leg day (in the morning) and tuesday nights ('push' day - chest, delts, tris).

The carb load is gonna be 300g at first, i need to see how they go for the first couple of weeks before assessing if they need changed and lowered or increased.

I plan to get the first 100g from a 50/50 dex/malto mix (with some whey protein for taste, although Rob recommends not actually keeping protein and fat as low as possible during the upcycle to make sure you use all your room for carbs and to prevent any gastric upset.

The remaining 200g will be from oats, potatoes and rice, most likely. I may even use spagettii, since i'm thinking the type of carbs i use won't be that relavent providing they're starchy, since my insulin levels will shoot up anyway (hoping providing some anabolism and maybe even boosting some leptin, even thought i don't plan on overspilling into fat cells).


My first 'official' day of NHE was wednesday, but nothing in my diet changed. Yesterday i trained back and bis and instead of my usual dex/malto post w/o i had whey in water with 1oz cream. Felt a bit weird actually. Usually after my carb/pro shake ingestion i'd feel bloated, 'soft' and feel tired (most likely the seritonnin) but then after my whey and cream i felt quite 'jiggy jiggy', sorta.

For training i did:

back: 8 sets (quite high volume for me actually)
traps: 1 set (the BB rows polished my traps quite nicely)
biceps: 1 superset of cable curls and the arm curling machine thingie. haha. Hell, i dunno the name of it.

The workout was fun. I'm currently working on my wide-grip chinning strength, cause it...sucks basically. But i'm improving, slowly, but surely...


Posted by: Robboe

On wednesday i got up at 6am and did some morning cardio on my first ECA in about 7-8 months. I felt it all throughout the day. A nice warm feeling, almost like i was sweating, but not quite.

I had the same ECA today, but no morning cardio (i prefered to stay in bed a bit longer - i need the sleep) and didn't feel quite as warm or for quite as long.

On the night time i went to see Newcastle Utd vs Barcalona.

Quite a crappy match though, but i've wanted to see barca play since i was a wee bairn, so it was cool.

I also nearly caught hypothermia from the rain and wind.

I then met a friend who now lives just outside of Glasgow in Scotland who was down for the week. No alcohol consumption - i've done enough of that the previous monday and friday. No drinking for at least another week, or until i'm settled on NHE.

I think i'm gonna get up and try that stubborn fat program of Lyle's tomorrow. Maybe just down the back lane near me and the around the housing estate, or i may go to the nearby gym. Not quite decided yet.

Anyhoo, that is all.


Posted by: LrdViperScrpion

Cool post TCD, although I'm not entirely knowledgeable on all of this stuff, I am interested in seeing how it goes.


Posted by: Yanick

TCD, how is this diet different from a CKD? I'm not too familiar with this NHE stuff, but it seems just like a CKD. Low carb for a while then carb up and repeat.

Can you post up some guidelines? Like stay below maintanance (obviously), ratios, carb up ratios, recommended carb grams for the carb up, length of carb up (recommended), any other relevant information. Or point me to a good site that will explain all of these things, as well as the theory behind the diet (i'm guessing something to do with hormones).


Posted by: Tank316

cool post TCD, Thanks for sharing.keep us posted please, interesting stuff.


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by Yanick
TCD, how is this diet different from a CKD? I'm not too familiar with this NHE stuff, but it seems just like a CKD. Low carb for a while then carb up and repeat.

Can you post up some guidelines? Like stay below maintanance (obviously), ratios, carb up ratios, recommended carb grams for the carb up, length of carb up (recommended), any other relevant information. Or point me to a good site that will explain all of these things, as well as the theory behind the diet (i'm guessing something to do with hormones).

That's just it man, there aren't really any recommendations. Rob made this diet as a 'real world' diet for the real world person. The only thing he asks you to count is carbs on the metabolic shift - under 20g, and then on the downcycle (the days between your carb loads) he states men can take in between 30-60g a day from indirect carb sources (direct ones tend to cause cravings) and women between 20-40g. Indirect carb sources are carbs you get from other foods with small carb counts like certain fruits (not dried fruits or carb dense ones, just fibrous watery ones are allowed) green veg, nuts, cheeses etc...

Protein should be between 20-50g a meal, a minimum of 4 meals a day, eating every 4 hours at the least, although he recognises life and commitments may get in the way. But if your protein is higher or lower in some meals, what the hell.

There are no tabs on fat - he just recommends being realistic and basically not just taking the piss by eating jars of PB etc...

He also gives some very good reasons for not counting calories, although i do personally believe to get to low bf%'s you need to count and control calories.

The carb load is bi-weekly. Every 3rd and then 4th day. No tabs on carbs here. He just says to binge like fuck. Mostly on starchy carbs, keeping fat and protein as low as possible, but it is a real world, average person diet, so you can do a little cheating here if you feel you need it. It's perfectly acceptable. You basically space the carb load out over the two meals before bed eg. one at 8pm then one at 10pm, bed by 10:30 or 11pm.

If you think about it, you're not actually gonna be able to pack down that many carbs in such a short sitting without feeling totally ill, so it's quite clever in that respect - making people think they can eat as much as they want, only to be (unknowingly) stopped by their own limitations. Makes people think the diet is more 'free', if you will.

By the way, nice guess that it's about the hormones, what with it being called 'natural hormonal enhancement' and all that...

It's not CKD, no. It's not a ketogenic diet. To hit keto, you need sufficient fat and lower protein. NHE is mod fat, mod/high protein. Basically, not enough fat and too much protein to get into ketosis for most people (although some may still achieve ketosis during the downcycle, and more likely during the last day(s) of the metabolic shift).

They're the same as far as "cyclical periodical carb loading" goes, but ckd = 5 days of essentially no carbs followed by 2 days card up. NHE = 3 days and then 4 days of low carbs followed by shorter carb ups, without being in ketosis.

Check out www.extique.com and check out the 'ask rob' section, there's some great info on there. If you want all the relavant reading, then buy the book


Posted by: Robboe

Now i think of it, over the course of this thread (which, from the positive feedback so far, i will continue to update) you'll probably learn all you need to learn about NHE without having to buy the book, but it's a fantastic read that i implore anyone/everyone to read.


Posted by: Robboe

The reasons for the pre-bedtime carb loading are:

1. To stop you continuing eating fat when your insulin levels have been increased (fat goes straight to fat cells if sufficient insulin is present).

2. To make sure you don't feel horrible and bloated during the day.

3. To ensure the seritonnin coma that you'll experience doesn't effect your job or your life (remember, 'real world' person just wanting to lose fat and keep it off).

(I'll scan for my post on carbs and the seritonnin effect cause i've already written it up somewhere on this forum).

4. So you don't get a shit load of cravings to binge on more carbs - usually initiated by falling insulin levels which then boost ghrelin levels and makes you crave food - carbs predominantly. I'm guessing PYY3-36 and MCH also interacts with this in some way or form via NPY and the meloncortin, but don't as me for specifics right now, i'm not entirely sure myself. He wants you to eat the carbs to ensure you prevent thyroid downregulation as much as possible, not to spill over for leptin purposes. This is actually one of the reasons why NHE is considered 'outdated' - because it only merely references leptin as a hormone that plays a big part in the fat loss picture, after all, it was written before 95 and leptin research was few and far between back then.


Posted by: Robboe

Ok, found it quicker than i expected. It's a quote of mine from a thread in supps.

Quote:
The EC cause release of the catecholmines (type of neurotransmitters) adrenalin [also called epinephrine] and noradrenalin [also called norepinephrine] and you can deplete them over time from too much stimulation from outside influences - in this case, ECA. It also messes with neurotransmitters like dopamine, which can also be depleted. Thus, you start to feel run down and lethargic.

The catecholmines precursors are aminos acids phenylalanine for noradrenalin and tyrosine for dopamine. So if you eat foods with these aminos high in the profile (like cheese, or my fav, cottage cheese) you can restore them or maybe stop them from falling in the first place. You could also consider the use of supplemental aminos but it's not really necessary.

Incidentally, if anyone has something that need clear mental focus for, eating cheese or cottage cheese is a good idea of a food to eat a few hours before hand.
And that is exactly why i eat some much cottage cheese besides the fact that i'm actually addicted to it.


I do actually have a small jar of half gram L-tyrosine tabs for when i've been on ECA for a bit longer. I'm not taking it (ECA) everyday just yet. I need to get a hold of some more, which is rather hard since the E of the stack is actually illegal over here. I don't want my adrenals totally exhausted from the stuff cause i hate feeling run down and fatigued.

I've also heard on the grape vine of some other forums that taking 1g of L-tyrosine with ECA is quite a headfuck and almost sickly. Maybe i'll find out tomorrow, although i am planning not to use the E straight away in the morning before cardio, just the C and the tyrosine.


Posted by: Yanick

Thanx for the info TCD, i'm going to have to check this out, it is very intriguing, and please do post your results here.

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
By the way, nice guess that it's about the hormones, what with it being called 'natural hormonal enhancement' and all that...

*Note to self, never use sarcasm around TCD*


Posted by: w8lifter

A most excellent thread Chicken Baby! I've stickied it...you have to update it now

So...you are still planning on using the ephedrine even after reading what Lyle said about it?

.....jiggy eh?


Posted by: w8lifter

Oh...and I forget...your morning cardio...is that on empty?


Posted by: Jodi

Hi Chicken Daddy! Thanks for sharing this with us, I'm really interested in seeing how this goes. I'm trying to learn and understand the science behind this so I really look forward to reading this.


Posted by: Dr. Pain

Gr8 journal TCD


DP


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
So...you are still planning on using the ephedrine even after reading what Lyle said about it?

Well i didn't bother before the cardio today, but i may in about an hour cause i'm tired as hell now, and i wanna read some more of LOTR III some time today (most excellent book).

I got up, took 2g L-Tyrosine, 200mcg caffiene and a multivit. Waited about 30 minutes (impractical for me to wait even more) and then headed off.

I began with 5 minutes warm up on the tready and then did 5 minutes of progressive running (starting at 8mph and moving up 0.5mph every minute until i was on 10mph). After that, i slowed right down to 4mph before my heart packed it's bags and left my chest for good and walked for 3 minutes. I followed it up with a further 3 minutes of progressive running.

Sat down for a few minutes.

Did 30 minutes on the stepper, was sweating like a fat one. Felt great.

I've come home, waited 30 minutes and had some chicken breast (with some green veg too, cause i wanted some satiety, i hope that's ok. I'll ask Lyle in a bit).

I'm about to go start my proper eating for the day. In 5 minutes precisely, in fact.

My hunger has all but disappeared too. Strange that. Usually i'm ravenous.

Righty, i'll tell y'all how i'm feeling later...um...later.


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
Oh...and I forget...your morning cardio...is that on empty?

Yeah, when i refer to 'morning cardio' i refer to pre-breakfast cardio.


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

I've come home, waited 30 minutes and had some chicken breast (with some green veg too, cause i wanted some satiety, i hope that's ok. I'll ask Lyle in a bit).
Yeah...I'd like to know why just protein


Posted by: Robboe

I imagine cause:

a) protein is the most thermogenic of the macros.

and:

b) Fat or carbs would stop the body burning it's own fat.


Posted by: w8lifter

So why eat at all? Why not just w8 till your next scheduled meal?


Posted by: Robboe

Muscle sparing i'd guess.


Anaerobic exercise does use glucose, remember.


Posted by: Robboe

One thing i forgot to mention: I'm doing a little experiment. I do legs tomorrow morning, so i'd usually not do cardio today, but i'm carbing up tonight, so we'll see if i can get away with cardio the day before legs. I'll tell you if i have a good workout tomorrow. I hope so.


Posted by: Tank316

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Pain
Gr8 journal TCD


DP
ditto DP, i find it very interesting



Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Muscle sparing i'd guess.


Anaerobic exercise does use glucose, remember.

Yes...I'd still prefer to w8 till my scheduled meal though...although I do always schedule my workouts so that my next meal falls within an hr of the end of my w/o...not everyone can do that I suppose.


Posted by: Shmoo

TCD I`m glad to see your doing this NHE journal. I have toyed with the NHE diet in the past. Right now I`m on a low carb diet and have been debating to try the NHE diet again, and your journal has motivated me to try it again. I am looking forward to reading this journal and the carb up days.


Posted by: Robboe

So i emailed Lyle, and here is the email in it's entirity:

Quote:

>Another question: why just protein after the cardio? I'm guessing it has
>something to do with keeping your body burning it's own bf stores and
>being muscle sparing, but what is your reasoning?

That's it. Just avoiding putting much energy back into the body (so it wll
continue burning mobilized fatty acids) but giving it some aminos to help
avoid muscle loss.

>Also, i did it today (i'll give you weekly updates of my activities on
>this style of training and won't fill your inbox everyday) and ate some chicken breast and i had some green
>veg (not much) for satiety. I was quite ravenous by the time so is that ok?

Sure.


Lyle
If you're wondering what i mean by giving him weekly updates, it's cause he's asked me to keep him updated on how i do with this style of cardio. If anyone else opts to try it, i'm sure he'd appreciate feedback from you also. We'll be the guinea pigs, if you will.


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by Shmoo
TCD I`m glad to see your doing this NHE journal. I have toyed with the NHE diet in the past. Right now I`m on a low carb diet and have been debating to try the NHE diet again, and your journal has motivated me to try it again. I am looking forward to reading this journal and the carb up days.

Toyed with as in modified it a bit?

I've just come off a (personally) modified version of the diet with smaller carb loads coming directly post train and no pre-bedtime bi-weekly carb ups.

What kind of 'low carb' diet are you currently following? Guidelines?


Posted by: Robboe

Thought I'd go a bit deeper into the reasoning of using L-Tyrosine. And also, why i eat cottage cheese (rich in tyrosine) before training. here's a fantastic quote from Tom Mattews:

Quote:
Norepinephrine (aka noradrenaline) is the first output product of the adrenal medulla produced via the pathway tyrosine -> dopa -> dopamine -> norephinephrine. Ephinephrine (adrenaline) is made in the adrenal medulla directly norepinephrine (using SAMe). The ratio of production and output of norepinephrine to epinephrine is 20:80% Both norepinephrine and epinephrine are stored in the medulla after production.
Norepinephrine functions by causing constriction of essentially all the blood vessels in the body, increases activity of the heart, inhibition of the GI tract, dilation of the pupils, etc. Epinephrine causes almost the same effects except that is has a much stronger stimulating effect on the heart. However, epinephrine has a weaker effect on the vascular smooth muscle cells and does not raise blood pressure nearly as much as norepinephrine. In addition, epinephrine increases tissue metabolic rate much more so that norepinephrine and can double the metabolic output of the body. It also increases glycogenolysis in the liver and muscles the consequent releases of glucose into the blood to fuel the increased metabolic rate.

The full pathway, however, is this:

phenylalanine -> tyrosine -> dopa -> dopamine -> norepinephrine -> epinephrine.

So there is also potential from Phenylalanine supplementation or from foods rich in phenylalanine.


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
4. So you don't get a shit load of cravings to binge on more carbs - usually initiated by falling insulin levels which then boost ghrelin levels and makes you crave food - carbs predominantly. I'm guessing PYY3-36 and MCH also interacts with this in some way or form via NPY and the meloncortin, but don't as me for specifics right now, i'm not entirely sure myself.

Here's a picture summing up a very basic picture. It doesn't explain everything, but it does make a few things clearer (well it did for me, and so i hope for you).



(Thanks to Leah for this )


Posted by: Robboe

Well i re-sized it and it's came out hella small.

Anyone else with magic image-resizing fingers who can aid me?

Gimme an email addy and i'll send it to you to resize.

And why can i only attach 60k files?


Posted by: Shmoo

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy



Toyed with as in modified it a bit?

I've just come off a (personally) modified version of the diet with smaller carb loads coming directly post train and no pre-bedtime bi-weekly carb ups.

What kind of 'low carb' diet are you currently following? Guidelines?
I toyed or modified it by changing the carb days from 3-4 to 3-3 and 2-3 and the amount of carbs at each meal. I had a hockey related knee injury at the time and was unable to do any cardio, and now with my knee is close to100% I`m going to throw some cardio in this time and see how it goes.

The low carb diet I have been doing is just a modified version of the male cutting meal plan that DP posted here. It`s been going ok but I would like to try the NHE diet again with some added morning cardio 2-3 times a week.


Posted by: Yanick

TCD,

My email, Yanick987@aol.com, i'll give it a shot. This is really interesting stuff.


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
So i emailed Lyle, and here is the email in it's entirity:



If you're wondering what i mean by giving him weekly updates, it's cause he's asked me to keep him updated on how i do with this style of cardio. If anyone else opts to try it, i'm sure he'd appreciate feedback from you also. We'll be the guinea pigs, if you will.

I will do it Chicken Baby....I am having a hell of a time cutting this time around...my body is really resistent... and I'm always up for experimenting....

You can email that pic to me if you want and I'll see if I can resize it.


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by Yanick
TCD,

My email, Yanick987@aol.com, i'll give it a shot. This is really interesting stuff.
Sent.


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
I will do it Chicken Baby....I am having a hell of a time cutting this time around...my body is really resistent... and I'm always up for experimenting....

Great!

I imagine Lyle will appreciate feedback from a female's point of view.


Are you just gonna put little tidbits and updates in here, or would you prefer emailing Lyle yourself?


Posted by: w8lifter

Well what kind of reports are you giving him?

Do I have to get tested? I hate getting tested unless I'm already @ 10%


Posted by: Robboe

Not overly sure yet myself.

At the end of the week i was just gonna draft up a brief summary of the week's activities and how i feel they've affected me and my goals. I'm not getting tested either, too much hassle. I was just gonna give him estimations on how i feel the program is working as far as fat loss is concerned.

Whatever comes into my head on that day is what he's gonna get


Posted by: w8lifter

K...I'll just update here...might introduce myself to him eventually though


Posted by: Robboe

Ok, cool.


Tonight i had the carb load. Started at about 9:30pm. I had 50g dex, 50g malto, 2 scoops simply whey, 10g creatine, 6g CLA and 1mg biotin.

I had the creatine tub still left over from a few months back, so i figured anything to help store more water and glycogen has got to be worth it. We'll see.

30 minutes later i chased it up with a small amount of chicken breast and 178g of oats. Which sounds like a hellish amount, but i don;t cook my oats and it didn't take me long to eat. I actually went against two of Rob's recommendations: 1) I ate protein during the carb load and 2) i drank water. As daft as the latter sounds, he recommends only 'sipping water' to control bloating during the carb up.

A little while after (a hour or two) i had a tin of tuna and 144g of brown rice. Again, it seems like a lot of food, but it wasn't that bad. I think i can get away with it though, cause i'm a big lad as it is. Someone smaller may have trouble, but then again, someone smaller wouldn;t be taking in this amount of carbs in such a short duration.

In total i packed down about 300g carbs.

I have legs tomorrow, so i'll see how well this carb loading business has saved my training after today's cardio.


Posted by: w8lifter

Stupid fucking file size limit




Posted by: Robboe

Well i did legs this morning. Great workout it was too. So after week 1, i think i may be able to get away with doing a long cardio session the day before hitting legs without causing too much problem with my resistance training. It may, however, take a long term effect - ie it'll hit me after a few weeks and not straight away. But only time will tell.

For legs i did:

squats - 3 sets
SLDLs - 1 set with 1 drop set
Leg press - 1 set with 1 drop set

I tried to do some calves and some abs, but the intensitiy just wasn't there - either was the strength.

I chugged my whey and cream and took 1g vitamin C and 200ug chromium piccolinate. I'm gonna cook up some steak in a moment

Again, post training i'm quite perky and not in my usual seritonnin-induced comatose state, which is quite cool. Means my head is more clear for other things, like watching the FA charity shield on TV

In case you guys are wondering why i'm usually in a seritonnin coma post training, it's cause of the carbs that i used to take in. I used to load post workout, but no more for now. It's cause there are 5 aminos that compete for transport across the blood brain barrier, one of them being tryptophan - the precursor for seritonnin. There are only so many receptor sites for these aminos to compete for, so there's a "balance" if you will. However, once you eat carbs, the insulin release the body uses to lower blood sugar levels actually transports the aminos into body tissues like muscle - except the tryptophan because it is bound to a protein (albumin i think) and so isn't carried by the insulin. This means that the tryptophan has an easy access through the blood brain barrier in larger amounts and thus, converts to seritonnin and makes you feel all groggy. This happens anytime you eat a high carb meal. Just think back to thanks giving dinner and how you feel about an hour afterwards


Posted by: Robboe

Cool!

Thanks leah.

Ok, hopefully that'll help you visualise how some things work as far as the hormones go and how your body makes dieting down difficult.


Posted by: kuso

TCD......GREAT thread !!!!!!!!

I`m not asking you to post em, but did you take some pix or something to see how this goes?


Posted by: Robboe

No, sorry.


Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Ok, cool.


Tonight I had the carb load. Started at about 9:30pm. I had 50g dex, 50g malto, 2 scoops simply whey, 10g creatine, 6g CLA and 1g biotin.
Quick question TCD, I've been away but following. Here Biotin is dosed 800 mcgs By Twinlab and 2500 mcgs by Nature's Life. I have never seen larger amounts....how did you get a gram?


DP


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Pain


Quick question TCD, I've been away but following. Here Biotin is dosed 800 mcgs By Twinlab and 2500 mcgs by Nature's Life. I have never seen larger amounts....how did you get a gram?


DP

My fault, sorry, they're just 1mg tabs. (i've amended now).

I use a cheap health store (Holand and barrett) in Newcastle city centre for most of my vits, or the supermarket (Tesco) amazingly. I don't have loads of dispensible cash for supps (which is why i'm quite anti-supps for the most part, the rest of the part being that most are shit) so i don't go OTT with the vits and such. I know a lot of people use those "mega vitamin stacks" and all that, but i get more than the RDA for most, and i chose my foods sensibly for micro as well as macronutrient content.

I will, however, be looking into the nature's life product to see how much it bends my budget. I'm quite a firm beliver in Biotin to aid insulin sensitivity, even if i'm not diabetic.

Oh, and as camp as this sounds, i have noticed visible improvements in my skin (especially my face which was/still is quite bad for acne), hair and finger nails (if only i'd stop biting the fuckers and let them grow).

Well, i did cardio this evening.

Got home from graft at about 4:15pm, popped 200mg caffiene (i wonder if i'll pay for that tonight...) and 2g L-tyrosine.

Incidentally, my last meal prior to this was at 1:30pm, meaning several hours between eating and cardio, hopefully emulating some of the effects of morning cardio to the best possible degree.

Was doing my sprinting by 4:45pm after adequate warm up.

4 minutes of progressive speed running, 3 minutes calm walk, and then a further 4 minutes progressive running. Killed me, it did.

I waited a few minutes and got my breath back and then hit the stepper. I was really ready to come off after ten minutes, but a nice young lay-dee came in to train, so i stuck around. Then again at 15 minutes i was ready to go home, but another bonnie young lay-dee came along, so stay Rob did. This happend several times, thankfully, so i stayed the duration of 30 minutes. A welcome incentive it was. The sweat was literally pissing out of me.

I came home and had some chicken breast (had no cooked veg, so chicken only it had to be). After a further 15 minutes i couldn't hack it due to pangs, so i had some cottage cheese, nuts and a few strawberries.

Things that = ace:

1. My waist becoming visibly smaller.

Things that = not so ace (arce ):

1. Being flat sucks proverbial monkey gonads.

I hope i can muster a good push session tomorrow.


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

I waited a few minutes and got my breath back and then hit the stepper. I was really ready to come off after ten minutes, but a nice young lay-dee came in to train, so i stuck around. Then again at 15 minutes i was ready to go home, but another bonnie young lay-dee came along, so stay Rob did. This happend several times, thankfully, so i stayed the duration of 30 minutes. A welcome incentive it was. The sweat was literally pissing out of me.




Things that = ace:

1. My waist becoming visibly smaller.

Things that = not so ace (arce ):

1. Being flat sucks proverbial monkey gonads.

I hope i can muster a good push session tomorrow.

....and you think Lyle is the funniest on the net ...LMFAO!!!


Posted by: LrdViperScrpion

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Oh, and as camp as this sounds, i have noticed visible improvements in my skin (especially my face which was/still is quite bad for acne), hair and finger nails (if only i'd stop biting the fuckers and let them grow).
Really? Biotin has improved acne problems for you. Wow, I need to try that, as my face looks like sh*t due to acne.


Posted by: Robboe

It has helped, aye, but don't expect miracles.


Posted by: Robboe

I have been really drained for most of today at work. I'm gonna look at my diet again in a bit and make sure i'm taking in enough fat. It may, however, just be the cardio taking it's toll, since i'e really just suddenly introduced it in quite a quantity all at once after not really doing cardio much at all during my last bulk (if at all).

I did muster a decent push session. I did feel like i got the job done, although my workout was a little different than usual. If i had done my usual training i doubt i'd have progressed much, if at all on most exercises. But progression is not my priority when cutting - retaining is.

Here's a quick workout summary:

BB Bench: 3 sets, all just shy of failure.
Slight inclined DB flyes: 2 sets, both shy of failure.
Weighted dips: 1 set with 2 drop sets (for heart rate elevation more than anything).

CGBP: 2 sets, first set with 3 fucking forced reps that i DID NOT WANT, but the spotter is the guy's PT and he's a cool guy and i didn't have the heart to tell him i didn't want them, which is really dumb of me. I should have told him before the set not for forced reps. The second set i lowered the weight and went for higher reps without a spotter.

Side laterals: 2 sets, the second with 2 drop sets.

I like drop sets for heart elevation a lot right now.

My hams are really quite sore today, so i'm unsure whether to do morning carido tomorrow, or wait until the evning and do it then, or if soreness is still bad, have a day of rest. Maybe tonight's carb up will help me decide.


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

I like drop sets for heart elevation a lot right now.
Me too!

Why don't you post your diet right now Chicken Baby...just so we can see the whole plan


Posted by: Robboe

It's in the first post.


Posted by: w8lifter

Ha! Oh yeah


Posted by: mama's boy

TCD,

Why no Overhead Press? Good thread, BTW.


Posted by: Robboe

I dropped them for a while about 2-3 months ago. I see no need for them right now. My anterior deltoids get enough work on presses and dips and i do side laterals for the medial head.

On back day i usually do 1 set of rear flyes for posteroir head, if i think it's warranted. On days where i do a bit higher volume and more rows i won't do any.

When i want them for functional strength i'll start doing them again. As long as my benching and dips are progressing my delts are.

Ate my third meal at 1:30pm, fell asleep three times during 1 and half hours worth of meetings between 2 and 3:30, left work at 4pm and went straight to the supermarket. Got some food, went home and had some L-tyrosine and 200mg caff (at around 5ish, which may be pushing the mark a bit for such a dose of caff).

I went to the gym round the corner. Initially i wasn't planning to judging on how i felt last night, but what a difference the carb load makes. I had more than my usual 300g though. I added a few potatoes to my steak and rice in my second meal, ate an english muffin with some edam cheese while i was waiting for my rice to cook, and i ate a banana after my oats; so we're talking closer to 400g carb load last night. I felt my heart beat in my head - and enjoyed it, sadistically. I felt really warm all night too and it carried over this morning, which was nice. A carb up definately aids the thyroid, and a larger carb load was just what the doctor ordered, methinks.

Anyhoo, i digress...

3 minute warm up walk on the tready.

6 minutes progressive running, starting at 7.5mph working up to 10mph every minute. (notice how i manage 6 minutes now? Since i've gradually worked my way up. I do this for weights as well, and i suggest others follow if they don't already do so. Unless you're 10+ years in training then progressive overload is by far the most efficient and best way to go about getting bigger and stronger in my opinion. And we all know how high i think of my own opinion ).

3 minute walk.

4 minute progressive running, working up from 8mph to 10mph.

3 minute walk.

2 minutes running, first minute = 8.5mph, second = 10mph.

I felt like adding the third run cause i felt strong for it. And fitter. Like i said, carb loading does a body good.

30 minutes on the stepper, course 1, +2 (just for my own reference so i can increase the intensity every so often).

I was talking to a friend for the whole time and it didn't at all feel like 30 minutes. He's originally from Kashmir, so we talked a lot about the situation over there and such, and the increasing drug use in my weights gym.

After this i was done, but i felt the need to re-pay the favour and spent a further 10 minutes on the bike talking to him.

I got home and ate some chicken at 7pm.

Ate some cottage cheese and nuts at 7:30pm with 400ug vitamin E.


Posted by: Robboe

Felt fine today, despite cardio last night.

Did pull just earlier:


4 sets of wide grip chins - the reason for such high vol was as follows:

1st set: +10k - 4.5 reps

Since i got 5 last week, i did this:

2nd set: +15k - 3 reps
3rd set: +20k - 2

Both sets stopping short of failure (prolly by a rep) and then my fourth set:

4th set: +10k - 6

So i progressed after all

Nice little trick i thought i'd share with you all. Easy way of tricking your CNS.

Followed it up with 2 sets of BB rows, with a third set having 1 drop set.

Did a quick cable row/CG pulldown superset for some heart elevation and back was done.

2 sets of DB shrugs with the 70k's and i was done.

Not much else to report right now.

I'm gonna go in and do some GPP work tomorrow, and maybe might follow it up with some cycling.


Posted by: Robboe

Last meal was at 1:30pm, took 200mg caff and 2g Tyrosine at 4pm (ish) and was doing cardio by 5:30pm.

No GPP today as planned cause my sister wanted me to take her to the local gym for cardio, so i'll do some GPP on another day if i feel like it.

3 minute warm up on tready.

6 minutes running with progressive resistance.

3 minute walk.

3 minutes running with progressive resistance (couldn't muster 4minutes).

3 minute walk.

2 minute sprint.

Waited for 5 minutes and then managed 30 minutes on the stepper. It was hard, but i managed it.

Got home around 6:45pm and had some chicken breast. I'll eat a full meal in a few minutes (about 7:15pm), including some more chicken breast, cottage cheese and some cashews.

Tomorrow is a busy day - i need to get up for some morning cardio, go to the city centre to get some bits and bobs, including some more L-tyrosine and then i head off down to Hartlepool to me my nana. I haven't been down in a while, so i wanna go see her. She's a ridiculously old aged woman, but she's still got all her marbles and she's a real hoot.

Later that night i go out drinking for a friends birthday. It'll be part of my "carb up", haha.

At least i keep telling myself that. I just gotta remember to get some quality carbs in me before going drinking, and then to restrain myself from eating fatty foods once i'm drinking. I'm also drinking at a new location to me, as far as drinking and clubbing goes. It's at Whitley bay at the coast. Should be fun, although i hear the average age of the "babes" there is about 45

I may have to stop over at someone's house too, cause the taxi fare home will cost and arm and a leg, which may mean i have to move leg day to the monday night (which i'm not particularly fond of, cause i have push the next day and i don't particularly like doing two large body parts on successive days). We'll have to wait and see what happens.

I also weigh in tomorrow.


Posted by: w8lifter

I love reading your journal


Posted by: LrdViperScrpion

Sorry, what's GPP?


Posted by: Robboe

General Physical Preparedness.


Posted by: Robboe

By: Louie Simmons
General physical preparedness (GPP) is a term that refers to a degree of fitness, which is an extension of absolute strength. Many don't believe in it at all. Here, I am referring to the people who say if you want to be good at the powerlifts, just practice the powerlifts. Of course, this leads others to say that powerlifters are out of shape, and the above-mentioned group is.
Many times the ones that advocate only the classical lifts are the very ones that complain that powerlifters are out of shape. We all squat, yet we are not built identically. Some develop large quads, some develop big glutes and hips, and others may have very powerful hamstrings. It's obvious to me that if one muscle group is developed to a greater degree than another, then the smaller muscle groups are holding back your lifts.
What's the answer? You must do special exercises for the lagging muscle groups. But before you can pursue an increase in volume by way of special exercises, you must be in excellent shape. General physical preparedness raises your ability to do more work by special means.
There are several ways of raising work capacity. One method that we use at Westside is using the pulling sled for the hips and glutes. We pull the sled with the strap attached to the back of our power belts. We walk with long, powerful strides, maintaining an upright body position, pulling through with the feet, which stresses the hamstrings and glutes. This is common practice for throwers overseas.
I learned about pulling from Eskil Thomasson, who is Swedish. Before he moved to Columbus, he visited Finland to see why so many Finns deadlift so well. Many of these strong deadlifters were lumberjacks. They routinely had to pull paper wood down to the main trail, where the tractors could pick it up.
Another style of pulling is with a double handle held behind your back and below your knees. The torso is bent over, and the strides are long. This is great for building the hamstrings.
To work the front of the hips and lower abs, attach a strap to each ankle and walk, pulling the sled by your feet. Vasily Alexiev use to walk in knee-deep water for roughly 1000 steps after a work out. This is similar to what we are doing but with the advantage of being able to add or reduce weight, which varies the resistance.
For building the outside of the hips and the inside of the legs, position the straps around the ankles and walk sideways, first one way, then the other, left then right, forward and backward.
For the quads and front of the hips, walk backward with the strap around the front of your belt.
To start this type of work, I recommend doing six trips of 200 feet each. Use only one style of dragging until you feel confident of your ability to include more work. We do this low body work on the squat day, Friday, and on the max effort day, Monday, plus on the days after (Saturday and Tuesday), using 60% of what was done on the previous day. This contributes greatly to restoration.
For legs and upper back, as well as building your grip, try pushing and pulling a weighted wheelbarrow. This has had a great effect on my knee that suffered a patella tendon rupture. I thank Jesse Kellum for this exercise. He used his for knee rehab for pro-football players. Pushing the wheelbarrow up a mild grade really increases the work on the lower thigh muscles. Again, start with six trips of 200 feet. Only when you have adjusted to the additional work should you increase the number of trips.
Now back to the sled, but this time for the upper body. When George Halbert sees an increase in upper body mass, the process must be working, and that process is pulling a sled with the upper body. There are many methods of doing this. One duplicates the motion of a pec machine. Start with the arms behind your back. Slowly pull your arms to the front. Walk forward slowly and let the tension in the strap pull your arms to the rear, and again pull forward.
One can also do a front-raise motion with the palms facing down. For the lats, start with the arms behind your back, raise your arms, palms up, like a double upper-cut, by first flexing your lower lats. The farther forward hands go, the more the upper lats are worked. By walking backward you can do rear delt work, upright rowing, and external shoulder work.
A good reactive method for the bench press is to hold the straps out in front of you, and as you walk forward and the slack is removed, drive the sled forward in a shock fashion. This is very taxing but is great for reversal strength.
Do the upper body sled work for time, not distance. Mix the different styles together. Start with 5 minutes of pulling and work up to at least 20 minutes. I do 30-40 minutes. Walk slowly and don't jerk the sled. Only the reactive bench press method should be jerked.
Use the rule of 60%: Start heavy on day 1 and reduce the weight each day for 3 consecutive days. Then go back to a heavy weight the fourth day, e.g., 90 pounds, 70 pounds, 50 pounds, each weight representing one day. The same applies to pulling the sled for lower body power and to the wheelbarrow.
This work will greatly increase your physical ability to train as well as work as restoration. This style is resistance work for those seeking greater overall strength, power- and weightlifters, football players, or anyone that needs to raise work capacity to reach a higher level of excellence, which is anyone who took the time to read this article. But are there different routes to this type of work? Yes.
GPP work is very common in track and field overseas, but is still very much overlooked in the United States.
An experiment was conducted at The University of Pittsburgh. Head strength coach Buddy Morrison brought in a sprint expert, John Davies, who is very well versed in GPP work for running. John works with many pro players and has consistently lowered their 40 times. While his GPP work consists of weightless drills, such as jumping jacks, line hops, mountain climbers, and shuffle splits, it perfects running and jumping skills in addition to lateral speed. As John simply puts it, "I have never met a North American Athlete, from the major team sports, that the inclusion of this work will not cause a remarkable change in their optimum performance. Simply, without this solid base, substantial gains are limited and success is restricted to those more genetically gifted.... The median improvement in 40 yard dash times over eight weeks was .25 … This work is not for the weak of heart as the overall work volumes are enormous."
John Davies' training, as mine, is regulated up and down in a wave fashion to ensure restoration and to raise work loads.
If you are not after the highest possible level of power and speed, don't waste your time. But if you want to call out "Who's next?", like the immortal Goldberg, give this a try.



Posted by: LrdViperScrpion

Wow, awesome post, thanks TCD.


Posted by: w8lifter

Way cool....so what exactly do you do for GPP?...or did I miss that too? lol


Posted by: Robboe

I posted this in the stubborn fat thread:

Quote:
"You could very easily do some sort of GPP workout for 15-20 minutes: light weights, high reps (12-20 region, no where near failure though remember), short rest periods for your entire body. Not only can this potentially aid in your heavy resistance training, but it's much more fun to do then HIIT running.

Here's a short program i do if i'm doing an entire body workout, although i do sometimes just go by what i fancy doing on the day - usually exercises that i don't usually do, like i said, it makes it fun.

squats: 2-3 sets, all in the 12-20 rep region. about 30 seconds rest between sets if you're using 12 reps or about a minute between sets if you're using 20, or else the lactic acid build up will really be quite painful, and it really serves no practical use except maybe fatiguing your muscles for your heavy training. (which is not a good thing remember, you want your strength up when dieting, cause if you're not pushing the same weight in calorie deficit then your body has no reason to keep a hold of the muscle.)

SLDLs: 2-3 sets, 12-20 reps.

bench (inclined, declined or flat, DB or BB, whatever): 2-3 sets, 12 reps, 30 seconds rest between sets. Benching doesn't take as much out of you as say, squats, so use shorter rest periods, which means using lower reps than 20.

row (any horizontal row): 2-3 sets, same protocol as benching.

Flye (any variation): 2 sets, same protocol.

Pulldown (chins are usually too strenuous [sp?] if you do upwards of 10 or so reps, which can adversely effect your heavy resistance performance on pulling days, so lighter pulldowns are better [IMO, anyway.]): 2 sets, same protocol.

Notice that this workout practises the opposing muscle groups. There's an article by Poulquin about this method for heavy training which i shall try and dig up for you, unless someone beats me to it, or can find it faster for me.

By now, you should be quite beat, but if you want you can do 1-2 sets for an overhead press for shoulders and 1 set of a bicep and tricep exercise if you wish.

It's enjoyable, it's anaerobic, it'll knock you into a better hormonal state and it'll burn calories. After this, move onto your longer duration of aerobic cardio after about 5 minutes of rest. Hopefully this will make you more able to carry out the task."
I weighed in 2lbs lighter this week, at 14st 6lbs, which is 202lbs.

Got up today at 10:30, took ECA (yes, took the E today, despite what Lyle says) and 2g L-Tyrosine.

Had a green tea while waiting and hit the gym by 11:15am. It would have been 11am, but i had to sort out my membership to that place, chanign my membership from 'induction' to 'full', whatever the fuck that means. basically, i pay less to use it now.

3 minute warm up.

5 minutes progressive running

4 minute walk.

2 minutes sprint.

2 minutes walk.

2 minutes sprint.

I did this just last night remember, can't expect to progress everytime.

30 minutes on the stepper, which proved rather easier than last night. From this i can derive that either: 1. E aids aerobic work more than anaerobic work OR 2. me forgetting to up the stepper program by 2 makes a LOT of difference. I somehow htink it's the former.

The E really made me sweat buckets too.

Here are some random thoughts from the stepper:

1. I hope to god they find Holly and Jessica alive (i was watching sky news on the stepper TV).

2. Skateboarding looks painful when you come off.

3. Surfing looks cool.

(numbers 2 + 3 are from me looking at the TV on the stepper next to me which had on Ex TV, which rocks, incidentally).

4. 9/11 was in my head. On that day i was on the exact same stepper in that very same gym watching coverage of events on sky news, so it broguth some memories back.

5. If you have any questions or queries to why i do certain things that i haven't already explained then feel free to ask. I'm not gonna bite anyone's head off in this thread. I'm trying to keep it as professional as possible actually. If you do have a question, i can't guarantee i'll have an answer, but i'll do my best to find out for you.

6. I'm really sad for thinking of an online journal when doing cardio.

7. I hope i don't get too drunk and end up scoring with an old biddy tonight...


Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy





5. If you have any questions or queries to why i do certain things that i haven't already explained then feel free to ask. I'm not gonna bite anyone's head off in this thread. I'm trying to keep it as professional as possible actually. If you do have a question, i can't guarantee i'll have an answer, but i'll do my best to find out for you.
Why are you called 'The Chicken Daddy?"



Dp


Posted by: Robboe

Not 100% sure, but i've come to this conclusion:


"Fuck knows".




Way to keep it professional Rob...


Posted by: Dr. Pain

Thanks....thought so


DP


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Not 100% sure, but i've come to this conclusion:


"Fuck knows".




Way to keep it professional Rob...

I thought there was a story to it


Posted by: Robboe

There was but it's from years ago and i've forgot it now.

Well, i ate a shit load last night. and drank a lot of frosty beverages.

I'm not gonna say much more than that, other than me and John Smith are very well acquainted now.

God, i just remembered i even fell asleep at the bar too.

We were at the aeroclub, which is the old terminal for newcastle airport years and years ago. It was quite small like. It looks onto the airfield so we were watching the planes land and take off, which was quite cool.

So i woke up this morning sweating from the heat and with my heart beat in my head (a feeling i hate with a passion).

It felt like no matter how much water i drank i was still dehydrated.

I pulled myself together and went to the gym. Didn't do my usual workout, don't think i could muster it really.

Squats: 4 sets of 4.
SLDLs: 2 sets of 2, 1 set of 6.
Hack: 4 sets of 4 (with a progressive weight).

3 sets of high rep speed seated calf raises and then 2 sets of standing calf raises.

Did some abs too, 2 sets of cable crunches.

Also note that none of these sets were to failure. I stopped just shy on all sets, except maybe the third set of the speed seated calf work.

That is actually quite high volume for me.


Posted by: Dr. Pain

Any "Old Biddies" receive a "Speed Set?"

DP


Posted by: Robboe

lmao.


Actually, i didn't go to the coast, we changed plans and we're going there next sunday for the bank holiday weekend instead.


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
There was but it's from years ago and i've forgot it now.
Likely story....*searches WBB*


Posted by: kuso

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter


Likely story....*searches WBB*

Make sure to post it when you find it


Posted by: Tank316

great thread, really enjoying it. where do you get your dex and malto from?


Posted by: Robboe

Just flying on to update this bad boy.

Tank, dextrose from a pharmacy in England called 'Boots'. Dunno if you have it over there? It costs like £1.50 for 1kg, which is like $2.50 or so American dollars.

The malto is just some of the dorian Yates approved, cause my gym sold me it on the cheap.

I got home from work today and went to the library, and boy does my local one suck camel dick.

I went in for some real-life forensic books, and they had arse-all.

I was also hoping for some good endocrinology books or something on neurotransmitters, but they had toss-all.

To sum up how shit my local library is: they have no immediate copies of 'The Hobbit' or 'The Silmarillion', the bastards. I've had to order them in.

Anyhoo, got to the gym even later than usual for the cardio.

Took 200mg caff and 2g L-Tyrosine.

5 minutes sprinting with progressive pace.

2 minutes walk.

3 minutes progressive sprinting.

3 minutes walk.

2 minutes sprint.

5 minute wait.

30 minutes on the stepper.

Sweat was, again, rining out of me.

Small piece of chicken upon my return and then a full meal about 20-30 minutes later.

I missed the newcastle match on TV tonight (we won 4-0) cause my cousin's kid is up. She's totally lush, but she's also a right little madam when she wants to be. We took her down to the Millenium bridge and then for a MacDonald's (not to worry, i resisted )

Incidentally, i've ordered some Yohimbine HCL caps from the US. They should hopefully be here in a few days. I'll give y'all some info on it, if you're unsure of what it is or how it works.

Hopefully i'll be able to go into some good detail about fat receptors (alpha and beta), but i just gotta get it all totally clear in my head first


I need to try and get some more ephedrine too. Which is gonna be annoying.


Hey, out of interest, has anyone bought and read the 'Bromocriptine' ebook by Lyle McDonald from qfac at all?

If so, what's it like?

I really wanna read it, but id rather have a hard copy and it's done in flash so cuting and pasting is out of the question, unless anyone knows any little tricks?


Posted by: Dr. Pain

TCD, I'm very interested in your analysis of the Yohimbine HCL. IMO it works best on gynoid fat distributions where there is preponderance of A-2 receptors. My recollection is poor concerning certain insulin issues, w8 may still have my resources on those.

But I wanted to tell you that since you are big on self-experimentation....when your BF levels are low enough...I am in possession of Dan's "Spot Reduction" formula based on Yohimbine.


DP


Posted by: Robboe

Well i got quite a bit on the andrenergic system and fat receptors (since they're my new 'thing' - i seem to be obsessed with the whole fat burning thing right now).

And you're right about the a-2 receptors.

I'll post a lot more later, but i gotta go lift some weights now.


Posted by: Yanick

This was posted by DP a while ago on ABC, i think i was the only one that actually read it though, lol. A lot of it went right over my head because i was new to learning all about this stuff. I started to read it again and a lot of it makes perfect sense now. Not an article for a beginner, IMO.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction
Loss of body fat has become an obsession for Western society. Accordingly, overweight and obesity are associated with high risks for various pathophysiological conditions and a lower mortality rate. Approaches to body fat loss vary according to genetic and environmental factors. Moreover, regulation of both energy intake and energy expenditure can be moderated in several ways. The autonomic nervous system contributes to maintenance of homeostasis in the body by way of the sympathetic nervous system. This system stimulates energy mobilization and utilization in many tissues. Therefore, manipulation of the sympathetic nervous system may change body composition. This article will examine the role of fat tissue metabolism, the sympathetic nervous system, and a pharmaceutical approach to fat loss.
The physiological role of the sympathetic nervous system (SNS) is a major target of study for modulation of body weight and composition. The principal role players in the SNS are hormones called catecholamines and the adrenergic receptors (adrenoceptors) upon which they act. Aside from insulin, the catecholamines are the primary regulators of fat breakdown in cells by way of stimulation of adrenoceptors on the cell membrane. Activation of these adrenoceptors produces differing responses in the cell depending on receptor type, subtype and tissue. Two types of adrenoceptors, alpha- and beta-adrenoceptors, differentially stimulate or inhibit lipolysis and provide for dual control mechanisms within the fat cell.
A host of drugs that manipulate the SNS to reduce body fat have appeared and disappeared in the last few decades. Bryan Haycock published an article on Meso-Rx examining the role of beta-adrenergic receptors in fat loss and diet drugs that increase lipolysis (Pharmacological Approaches to Fat Loss: Targeting Beta-Adrenergic Receptors, July 1998, Vol. 1, No. 2) at the b -receptor and post-receptor levels. This article will examine the role of alpha-adrenoceptors and an alternative pharmaceutical approach to fat loss.
The first part of this article will discuss adrenoceptors and their function so that readers may comprehend the dual adrenergic regulation of lipolysis. The lipolytic process was discussed in Bryan's article (see above), but will be summarized here to acquaint those who have not read Bryan's article. The second installment of the article will examine the role of alpha2-adrenoceptors in adipose and other tissues and the ways they influence regulation of lipolysis. Finally, we will see how yohimbine, an alpha2-adrenoceptor antagonist can be of use in the pharmacological approach to fat loss.
Lipolysis Revisited
Adipose tissue, commonly called body fat, serves several functions in the body such as in storage and provision of energy, insulation, and mechanical support as in the sole of the foot or in the palm of the hand. The majority of human adipose tissue is metabolically active, although some depots appear to serve only a mechanical function and may be metabolically inactive (1). Adipose tissue is the body’s largest store of energy, accounting for 10-15 kg in a non-obese young adult. Supplying 3500 kcal per pound, 15 kg of body fat stores 135,000 kcal. Adipocytes (fat cells) regulate the energy balance of the entire organism by storing excess energy intake as triacylglycerols and releasing stored energy when demands are not met by other means. Each adipocyte contains roughly 0.04-0.06 ug of fat which accounts for ninety percent of the weight of adipose tissue (2).
Lipolysis is the process of breakdown and release of triacylglycerols (TGs) in adipocytes and is intensely regulated. Many physiological factors stimulate and inhibit the breakdown of TGs into free fatty acids (FFAs) and glycerol and their mobilization into the bloodstream to be used as fuel by other cells and tissues. Feeding, fasting, exercise and stress have pronounced and rapid effects on lipolysis via hormones and other endogenous substances (see Table 1). As well, clinical conditions such as diabetes and obesity are associated with alterations in lipolysis. Age and gender are also of importance.
Table 1. Some physiological modulators of lipolysis in humans.
State Effect on lipolysis Regulating hormones
Fed Inhibits Insulin by activity on HSL
Fasted Increases Increase in catecholamines and decrease in insulin
Exercise Increases Increase in catecholamines; decrease in insulin
Age Decreases Reduction in SNS activity and catecholamines
Gender Varies Sex hormones; regional deposit variations
Insulin and the catecholamines are the main regulatory hormones of lipid mobilization. Insulin is the major antilipolytic hormone because of its effects on enzymes within the adipocyte. Insulin also enables the entry of glucose into the cells by inducing glucose transporter activity. Glucose serves as the backbone for the glycerol molecule to which fatty acids attach and form TGs. The catecholamines serve a dual function of stimulation and inhibition of lipolysis. This nature of this duality will be discussed further so that the reader may understand how lipolysis is tightly regulated.
Hormones such as prostaglandins, adenosine, growth hormone and cortisol have permissive regulatory effects. Endocrine effects are due to circulating hormones, such as testosterone. Others are paracrine and autocrine effects from hormones secreted by the cell itself or from neighboring cells (18, . These mechanisms will not be discussed in depth here except for their role in mediating catecholamine-induced lipolysis.
We must first become acquainted with fat cell biology to comprehend the regulation of fat loss. Lipogenesis and lipolysis can be considered the Yin and Yang of adipose tissue metabolism. Lipogenesis is the process of fat accumulation and lipolysis is that of fat breakdown and release into the bloodstream. Bryan Haycock described the various systems in his article which readers are referred to for an in depth explanation. To avoid redundancy, the systems will be summarized here but with a greater examination of the adrenergic control via the adrenoceptors.
Triacylglycerol Storage
When carbohydrates are ingested, plasma glucose levels rise causing a release of insulin from the pancreas. Circulating insulin activates enzymes (acetyl-CoA carboxylase and fatty acid synthase) by inducing phosphorylation. This catalyzes the formation of fatty acids from glucose. Fatty acid uptake by the adipocytes results from activity of lipoprotein lipase (LPL). In addition to other hormones, insulin increases synthesis and activity of LPL; catecholamines, growth hormone and testosterone inhibit LPL. Differences in LPL activity partially account for regulation of adipose tissue distribution in various deposits. This may partly explain the typical diversity in adipose tissue deposition in regional deposits and between the two genders (e.g. upper body versus lower body, visceral versus subcutaneous deposits).
As mentioned previously, insulin enables entry of glucose into the cells via induction of glucose transporter activity. Glucose is then metabolized to glycerol where, along with fatty acids in the cell, they serve as substrates for TGs and are stored. Among other lipogenic effects, insulin stimulates the esterification process within the adipocyte, where three fatty acid chains attach to a glycerol molecule to form a TG. The primary action of insulin involves dephosphorylation of hormone sensitive lipase (HSL), which deactivates the enzyme. As will be described shortly, HSL catalyses the rate-limiting reaction in TG breakdown. Consequently, insulin is frequently referred to as the anti-lipolytic hormone.
Adrenoceptors and Lipolysis
Lipolysis is the process where TG molecules are hydrolyzed to fatty acids and glycerol. These products are then moved out of the fat cell by passive diffusion, carried across the cell membrane by protein transporters, or, in the case of FFAs, re-esterified back into TG within the fat cell or others nearby. The products are circulated through the bloodstream to various tissue and organs to serve as a source of fuel. The entire process is tightly regulated by numerous factors of which only the key players will be addressed here.
Recall that the rate-limiting enzyme for lipolysis within the adipocyte is HSL. Likewise, insulin and the catecholamines regulate HSL activity. Activation of HSL is regulated by a series of metabolic processes in the cell mediated by hormones and receptors in the cell membranes. Hormones secreted by glands or neurons, circulate and bind to receptors. This hormone/receptor complex initiates events that begin in the cell membrane, progress to the cell interior and end in a physiological response that may be inhibitory or stimulatory depending on receptor type and subtype. This is commonly called the second messenger system. The hormone itself is the first messenger which stimulates production of a second messenger that acts on systems within the cell to produce a cascade of events leading to the effect of the hormone. The series of steps and signals that take place linking the receptor and the effects within the cell is called signal transduction. As in most biological systems, negative feedback may inhibit the events of this interaction. To fully understand the complexity of this system, we will look at the cascade beginning with the receptors.
The physiological response by endogenous compounds or pharmaceuticals relies on their interaction with receptors in or on a cell. As we will see in the second installment, catecholamines and drugs (ligands) act upon these receptors and regulate metabolism in adipocytes and other cells. Some drugs, such as yohimbine, distinctly target a specific receptor to mediate a desired (or undesired) response. Let us examine what transpires when a ligand binds with a receptor.
Receptors are classified based on their structure and mechanism of action. The two classes of receptors are those that reside in the cell (intracellular receptors, such as steroid receptors) and those that span the cellular membrane and transfer an extracellular signal to an intracellular response. The G-protein-coupled (guanine nucleotide regulatory proteins) receptors are a large family of cell-surface receptors. The major receptors in the adipocyte membrane are the adrenergic receptors, or adrenoceptors, and are members of the G-protein family. Their most common feature is the long polypeptide chain that loops back and forth through the membrane seven times. This chain is physically and functionally linked to G proteins within the cell.
The catecholamines norepinephrine and epinephrine serve as the first messengers by binding to the adrenoceptors and stimulating the cascade system described above. The signal transduction depends on the type of adrenoceptor of which there are two types: alpha- and beta-adrenoceptors. These are further subtyped depending on structure, pharmacological response and second messenger. The alpha2- and beta-adrenoceptors share the same second messenger: cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP). The alpha1-adrenoceptors’ second messenger is calcium or phosphatidylinostiol and has less significance in lipolysis.
The heterogeneity of the adrenoceptors on the adipocyte offers a dual control of lipolysis by differential recruitment by the catecholamines. This is based on their relative affinity for the different subtypes. Lipolysis is mediated primarily by three beta-adrenoceptors: beta-1, beta-2 and beta-3 (b 1, b 2, and b 3, respectively). Stimulation of the alpha2-adrenoceptor (a 2-adrenoceptor) is anti-lipolytic. That is, its activation inhibits lipolysis within the cell. To understand this dual regulation, let us take a look at the cascade mechanisms activated by surface cellular adrenoceptors.
G-coupled protein receptors, such as the adrenoceptors, link with G proteins just inside the cell membrane. The G proteins consist of three subunits with different binding and characteristic effects. This is commonly called the G protein effector system. When either of the catecholamines bind to an adrenoceptor on the adipocyte, it causes a conformational shift that activates one or more of these G protein subunits. Specificity of the hormonal response is regulated by one of the subunits coupling to different effector molecules within the cell. This specific coupling activates a cascade of signals within the cell ultimately leading to a physiological response.
The two families of the G-proteins that are involved with control of lipolysis are Gs and Gi. Beta-adrenoceptors couple with the Gs form and thereby activate adenylyl cyclase (AC), the key enzyme which produces cAMP. HSL, the enzyme that catalyzes breakdown of TGs, is regulated by cAMP. Therefore, activation of AC initiates metabolism of TGs.
As stimulation of the beta-adrenoceptors can be thought of as the "on" switch for lipolysis, the a 2-adrenoceptor can be considered the "off" switch. a 2-Adrenoceptors have been less studied than the beta-adrenoceptors; however, they are known to be linked to the Gi protein subunit complex. Activation of the a 2-adrenoceptor attenuates the production of cAMP by its inhibition on AC. The exact mechanism of this inhibition is not clearly understood. Several theories have been presented; the currently accepted is the dissociation of the subunits of the proteins from the Gi-protein complex, thereby inhibiting further transduction of the signal to AC (3, 4).
Recall that TGs are the lipid forms of energy stored in adipose tissue. Catecholamine-adrenoceptor mediated stimulation of AC promotes elevation of cAMP and, in turn, increases activity of cAMP-dependent protein kinase A (PKA). PKA activates HSL by phosphorylation and its translocation to the lipid droplets of TGs. Activated HSL breaks down TG to diacylglycerol (DG) and monoacylglycerol. Monoacylglycerol lipase (not under hormonal control) then hydrolyzes DGs to free fatty acids and glycerol. The net products of the breakdown of one TG are three molecules of fatty acids and one of glycerol.
Glycerol passively diffuses through the cell membrane into the extracellular fluid and bloodstream. The free fatty acids may have several fates. A portion of the liberated FFAs remains in the adipocyte to be re-esterified back to TG within the cell. The remaining are carried across the membrane by a transport protein (5) into the extracellular fluid and pass into the bloodstream, or they can be taken up by surrounding adipocytes and re-esterified into TGs. The fate of free fatty acids after TG breakdown are determined by a number of factors which will be discussed in detail in Part II.
Lipolysis is largely controlled by the amount of cAMP within the cell. Other hormones affect lipolysis at the post-receptor level by acting on specific enzymes or cofactors to increase cAMP or inhibit re-esterification of the FFAs. They will not be discussed in this article except where necessary.
Interplay of b - and a 2-adrenoceptors
An examination of the role of adrenoceptor affinity for the catecholamines will elucidate the beta/a 2-adrenoceptor interplay in regulation of lipolysis. Recall that the adrenoceptor population on adipocytes is heterogeneous. That is, there is a mixture of a 2–adrenoceptors and the subtypes of beta-adrenoceptors; the number and density of each varies among deposits of adipose tissue. The relative proportions of each greatly determine the biology of the adipose tissue. Brown adipose tissue (BAT), which is the major site of thermogenesis, which maintains body temperature, has a higher density of b 3-adrenoceptors than the other beta-adrenoceptors. The b 1- and b 2-adrenoceptors undergo desensitization and downregulation quickly, whereas the b 3-adrenoceptors do not. Although the metabolism and role of BAT is still controversial, it has been proposed that the b 3-adrenoceptors are essential for continuation of catecholamine responses under increased or sustained sympathetic activity (6).
The heterogeneity of adrenoceptors varies among species, gender, and deposits of adipose tissue. This topic in itself could easily constitute another article, but will be summarized here. Studies indicate that, of the species examined, human adipose tissue contains the highest density of a 2-adrenoceptors (7). Men and women display regional differences in lipolysis mostly due to varying populations of the adrenoceptors. Non-obese women generally have more subcutaneous fat in the gluteofemoral area (buttocks and thighs) than other areas. Non-obese men generally have a uniform distribution of subcutaneous fat. Obesity, however, exhibits pronounced gender differences. Obese women tend to accumulate fat in the gluteofemoral and lower abdominal areas. This is commonly called a gynoid pattern of fat distribution. Obese men typically accumulate fat in the subcutaneous abdominal area, which is called an android pattern. The exact causes of these gender differences in regional adiposity are neither absolute nor fully understood.
Hormones such as testosterone and estrogens are known to affect adrenoceptor gene expression. Studies with other species demonstrate that androgen administration increased a 2-adrenoceptor expression in intra-abdominal adipose tissue in hamsters. The same up-regulation of a 2-adrenoceptors has not been yet demonstrated in human males (8, 18). Conversely, in studies with humans testosterone administration up-regulated beta-adrenoceptors, especially in the abdominal region (9). Estrogen may have a role in the paracrine control of adipocytes, although the exact mechanisms are not clearly understood (10, 11).
Body fat also differs among regional deposits due to differences in metabolic activity. Subcutaneous body fat comprises about 80% of all adipose tissue (12). Visceral adipose tissue surrounds the stomach and the intestines, is drained by the portal vein and has direct access to the liver. Activity is highest in the visceral region where more fat is mobilized during times when there is a need for rapid energy supply, such as during physical exercise or lactation. Metabolic activity is lowest in the gluteofemoral area followed by the abdominal subcutaneous deposits. catecholamines are most active in the visceral area, followed by the subcutaneous abdominal and gluteofemoral areas. These regional variations are partially due to differences in adrenoceptor populations as well as blood supply (13, 14).
In vitro and in vivo studies show that adrenoceptor interplay accounts for the potency of catecholamine action and may be partly responsible for gender and site differences in lipolysis (13, 5, 14). Beta-adrenoceptors follow the order of expression: visceral>abdominal subcutaneous>peripheral subcutaneous, which includes gluteofemoral adipose tissue. a 2-Adrenoceptors follow the opposite order. Indeed, women generally have larger deposits of adipose tissue in the buttocks and thighs because of a higher number of a 2-adrenoceptors and reduced number of b 1- and b 2-adrenoceptors. Later discussion will elucidate how these site-specific differences in adrenoceptors affect regional fat mobilization.
The main factor associated with the preponderance of a 2-adrenoceptors is the increase in fat cell size (15, 16). Studies determined that gluteofemoral adipocytes in women are larger than those in men, thereby contributing to a higher a 2-antilipolytic effect of the catecholamines in gluteofemoral sites (15). The inverse has been observed in subcutaneous abdominal adipocytes in men (14, 17). Although the association has not been confirmed, it appears that this may be governed by sex hormones at the post-receptor level. Cell swelling and short-term modifications of cell volume could also affect metabolism and gene expression in the adipocytes. Therefore, fasting and cold exposure induce a reduction in fat cell size and a concomitant decrease in a 2-adrenoceptor binding sites (18).
The influence of obesity and fat deposits on lipolysis is not fully understood. However, an increase in fat cell size and cell number, such as seen in obesity and in aging, will increase the density of a 2-adrenoceptors and hinder weight loss attempts.
Regional variations in insulin receptor affinity and in post-receptor signaling contribute to site and gender variations as well (14, 19). In addition to their proposed effects on adrenoceptor expression, the sex hormones influence post-receptor mechanisms of lipolysis. Testosterone inhibits LPL although it is not known if this is solely adrenoceptor mediated. Estrogens and progesterone stimulate LPL and preferentially affect the gluteofemoral adipocytes.
In vitro and in situ studies have demonstrated that a 2-adrenoceptors may be highly significant in their regulatory role in lipolysis. Advanced techniques and pharmacological approaches using selective a 2- and b -agonists and antagonists reveal gender and tissue specific differences in adrenergic control of fat cell biology (14, 20-23). The next installment will discuss various interactions of a 2-adrenoceptors: the SNS, local blood flow, and relative affinity of the catecholamines for adrenoceptors in adipose tissue. Following this, we will consider how a 2-antagonists may fit into the pharmacological approach to fat loss.

In the previous installment of this article, we discovered the regulatory role of adrenoceptors on lipolysis by action of the catecholamines. This installment examines the relevance of the sympathetic nervous system in mediating levels of catecholamines in the body and the interactions of this system with adipose tissue. The role of a 2-adrenoceptors and a pharmacological approach that mediates these receptors is also discussed.
The Sympathetic Nervous System and a 2-Adrenoceptors
It is widely accepted that lipolysis is modulated by the sympathetic nervous system (SNS) and possibly the parasympathetic nervous system (PNS). The SNS and the PNS are the two arms of the autonomic nervous system of the body. The SNS, often called the "fight-or-flight" system, is a network of motor neurons that innervates smooth muscle, cardiac muscle and glands. The SNS mobilizes the body during extreme situations such as stress and exercise. The PNS, sometimes called the "resting and digesting" system, serves to counterbalance the effects of the SNS and conserve energy. The SNS may stimulate a gland to secrete or smooth muscle to contract, whereas the PNS inhibits that action. Generally, the SNS and PNS innervate the same organs; although, the SNS innervates more organs than the PNS. While adipose tissue is innervated solely by the SNS, the PNS may indirectly influence lipolysis.
Both systems comprise of neurons, and each neuron ends in a terminal synapse. These synapses mediate the transfer of information from one neuron to another or to an effector (target) cell. That information may be in the form of electrical impulses (flow of ions) or chemicals. Certain signals are transmitted while others are blocked. Just inside the terminal are vesicles containing neurotransmitters, the chemical signals. In response to a nerve impulse the neurotransmitters are released from the vesicles into the synaptic cleft, a narrow space between the presynaptic terminal and the postsynaptic membrane of a nerve or an effector cell. Neurotransmitters diffuse across the synaptic cleft and bind to specific receptors on the effector cell. They may also diffuse into the bloodstream or be degraded by enzymes. Some neurotransmitters are taken back up into the presynaptic neuron to be recycled in a process called re-uptake.
The major neurotransmitter of the PNS is acetylcholine (ACh), which binds to nicotinic and muscarine receptors. The two neurotransmitters of the SNS are acetylcholine and norepinephrine (NE). ACh is degraded quickly by acetylcholinesterase; hence its effects are short-lived. Stimulation of the SNS increases release of neurotransmitters inducing a response in the effector cells, which may be excitatory or inhibitory depending on the nature of the receptor that binds the neurotransmitter. Thus, the SNS regulates energy intake and expenditure according to genetic and environmental influence.
SNS stimulation increases plasma levels of the catecholamines by inducing secretion of NE from postganglionic terminals and release of epinephrine (E) from the adrenal medulla. Although NE lingers in the synaptic cleft for a longer period of time than ACh, NE has several fates. A portion of the NE diffuses out of the synaptic cleft into the bloodstream. Enzymes such as monoamine oxidase and catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT) degrade a portion of NE. Much of the neurotransmitter is actively transported back into the terminal that released it and recycled. This re-uptake is moderated by a -adrenoceptors.
a 2-Adrenoceptors are found in the cell membrane of the neuron axon terminals and mediate rate neurotransmitter release. Some evidence shows that a 1-adrenoreceptors may be present on presynaptic membranes as well, but their existence is still disputed (1). When NE is released from the vesicles of the terminals, they come into contact with and stimulate the a 2-adrenoceptors, inhibiting further release of these same neurotransmitters. Such is the feedback system for NE release in the SNS.

Many pharmaceuticals interact with presynaptic a -adrenoceptors interfering with NE-mediated regulation of NE release and re-uptake. a 2-Antagonists are compounds that block the inhibiting effect of the a 2-adrenoceptors and, therefore, interfere with re-uptake of the synaptic NE. This allows NE to linger longer in synaptic clefts producing excessive stimulation and diffusion of excess NE into the bloodstream. a 2-Antagonists reserpine and yohimbine enhance NE release and inhibit NE re-uptake.
a 2-Adrenoceptors are present on many tissues and mediate a variety of functions. Pre- and postsynaptic a 2-adrenoceptors found on central and peripheral neural terminals mediate noradrenergic, cholinergic and serotonergic receptors. Recall that activation of these a 2-adrenoceptors inhibits release of neurotransmitters. Thus, blockage of the adrenoceptors will increase neurotransmitter release. As well, a 2-adrenoceptors are located on many other tissues and have important pharmacological implications. Some of these are discussed further when we address use of pharmaceuticals targeting the a 2-adrenoceptors for fat loss and their possible side effects.
a 2-Adrenoceptor Subtypes
Receptor-binding studies have demonstrated that several subtypes exist for alpha-adrenoceptors types, depending on species and tissue (2,3). In addition to genetic coding, pharmacological response to agonists and antagonists determine the classifications depending on their binding potency to the receptors. The most common probes used in these studies are agonists, such as clonidine, and antagonists: yohimbine and yohimbine-like compounds such as rauwolscine, corynanthine. Each of these compounds has various binding affinities for the alpha-adrenoceptors types. Some, such as yohimbine, exhibit weak binding to a 1-adrenoceptors as well as high affinity for the a 2-adrenoceptors.
As mentioned previously, species and tissue differences exist in a 2-adrenoceptor subtypes. For instance, human brain cortex presynaptic a 2-adrenoceptors are classified as a 2A or a 2D (4). Primarily a 2A-adrenoceptors mediate vascular effects, such as changes in blood pressure (5). Whereas, human kidney presynaptic a 2-adrenoceptors are classified as a 2C (6), further binding studies established that human adipocytes express only the a 2A-adrenoceptor subtype (7, 8).
These a 2-adrenoceptor subtypes are differentially regulated by their affinity for the physiological catecholamines and sensitivity to downregulation. The functional roles for the a 2-adrenoceptors continue to be explored. Pharmaceutical agonists and antagonists are being developed with greater selectivity for the individual subtypes. They may be used as therapeutics for treating glaucoma, hypertension, non-insulin dependent diabetes and as adjuncts to general anesthesia.
The SNS, a 2-Adrenoceptors and the catecholamines
catecholamines stimulate the adipocyte adrenoceptors on the basis of their relative affinity for each type of adrenoceptor. These hormones preferentially recruit the a 2-adrenoceptor at lower catecholamine levels than the beta-adrenoceptors, especially in tissues where a 2-adrenoceptors predominate (9,10). Consequently, the a 2-adrenoceptors will be recruited before the beta-adrenoceptors.
One study demonstrates that a 2-adrenoceptors modulate lipolysis at rest, whereas lipolysis is modulated by the beta-adrenoceptors during exercise (9). During physical activity, increased levels of E in the extracellular fluid maximally stimulate the beta-adrenoceptors and mask the inhibitory effect of the a 2-adrenoceptors. a 2-Adrenoceptors may exert a permanent inhibition on lipolysis, contributing to a tonic inhibitory component influenced by catecholamines on ‘basal lipolysis’ (11). In vitro studies support this observation by demonstration that many G proteins have a significant level of basal activity in the absence of an agonist (12). Therefore, the a 2-adrenoceptors could be considered the major lipolysis-regulating adrenoceptor on adipocytes.
To illustrate the regulatory mechanism of the dual adrenoceptors on the fat cells, let us consider the a 2-adrenoceptor as a ‘brake’ on lipolysis in the cell. At rest the a 2-adrenoceptors apply a slight pressure to the brakes on lipolysis even in the absence of an agonist, a compound which binds and stimulates the receptor. A slight rise in extracellular norepinephrine, such as seen in mild SNS stimulation (sitting at the computer typing all day), will increase the number of a 2-adrenoceptors being activated with a small number of beta-receptors activated as well. Since the a 2-adrenoceptors outnumber the beta-receptors in humans, this will apply the breaks to lipolysis harder, decreasing-lipolysis. During exercise, concentrations of NE and E from the SNS and the adrenal gland increase in the blood and fat tissue extracellular fluid. These higher levels of catecholamines increase stimulation of the beta-adrenoceptors, which then overshadow the a 2-adrenoceptor-induced activity. Basically, stimulated beta-adrenoceptors cut the brake cable on lipolysis and start the train of events promoting and increasing fat breakdown in fat cells.
Adipocytes are only one of the many tissues within the body that have adrenergic receptors. Thus, response to activation of the SNS will vary between tissues depending on the adrenoceptor types present on the cells, the relative proportion and the second messenger system within the cell. For instance, skeletal muscle blood vessel wall cells have both a 1- and b 2-adrenoceptors with the a 1-adrenoceptors lying close to the sympathetic nerve terminals. The b 2-adrenoceptors are on the endothelial surface of the blood vessels. Therefore, SNS activation usually produces predominantly vasoconstriction mediated by the a 1-adrenoceptors, whereas an increase in E activates the b 2-adrenoceptors causing vasodilation. Another important organ with dual adrenergic regulation is the pancreas. This interaction is explained when we examine a pharmaceutical approach that blocks the a 2-adrenoceptors.
a 2-Adrenoceptors and Blood Flow
SNS activity has an additional catecholamine-mediated effect on lipolysis in adipose tissue: blood flow. A coordination of local blood flow and metabolism carries away by-products of lipolysis and supplies energy substrates to tissues and organs in times of increased demand. Changes in blood flow can facilitate or inhibit movement of substrates, such as glycerol and non-esterified fatty acids (NEFA), that arise from lipolysis. Consequently, stimulation of the SNS increases lipolysis and blood flow; low SNS activity (such as during rest) inhibits lipolysis and blood flow. However, the increase in blood flow is not in proportion to rising concentrations of NEFA and glycerol. During strenuous exercise, adipose tissue blood flow does not increase sufficiently to remove all NEFAs released by lipolysis (13). A feedback system probably exists; however, it is not well understood. Vascular adrenoceptors that affect vasoconstriction and vasodilation may be responsible for this feedback. Studies using microdialysis have shown that the interplay of a 2- and b 2-adrenoceptors mediate vascular blood flow in adipose tissue (14,15).
Up until several years ago, in vitro and in vivo investigations on plasma circulating metabolites limited measurements of metabolism in adipose tissue. A technique called microdialysis allows for local manipulation and in situ studies of adipose tissue (16,17). It can be applied to individual subcutaneous deposits enabling investigation of specific-site metabolism. Microdialysis allows infusing adrenergic-active agents, such as beta- and alpha-agonists or antagonists, to manipulate adrenergic control and monitoring adipose tissue metabolites and local blood flow. Recent studies elucidate further the role of the catecholamines on regulation of adipose tissue metabolism, especially pertaining to regional and gender differences.
E and NE stimulate blood flow in adipose tissue by activation of the b -adrenoceptors on the walls of the blood vessels causing vasodilation. Stimulation of the a 1- and a 2-adrenoceptors, also on blood vessel walls, promote vasoconstriction. The distribution of these two types of alpha-adrenoceptors and their subtypes within the blood vessel walls mediate their sensitivity to vascular controls. Some vascular beds, such as the renal bed, respond primarily to a 1-adrenoceptor modulation (5). Whereas other beds, such as in cutaneous circulation, respond primarily to a 2-adrenoceptors (19,18). SNS regulation of local blood flow in the various adipose deposits may have important implications for lipolysis (20).
Results from in vitro and in vivo studies have had contradicting results depending on techniques utilized and physiological status of subjects. Without question, in vitro and in vivo results show that a 2-adrenoceptors predominate in the femoral vascular bed (in the lower body) by using various antagonists for the specific alpha-adrenoceptors (21-23). Microdialysis studies confirm a higher concentration of glycerol in gluteofemoral than abdominal adipose deposits possibly due to reduced local blood flow in gluteofemoral sites during resting basal conditions despite lower basal lipolysis rates (14,20).
Experiments using microdialysis have shown that perfusing adipose tissue with clonidine, an a 2-agonist, promoted an increase in extracellular glycerol concentrations. Vasoconstriction by stimulation of vascular a 2-adrenoceptors may be the primary determinant in glycerol and NEFA mobilization (20,24). Vasodilating agents infused via microdialysis produced a decrease in the removal of glycerol from the extracellular space of adipose tissue (24). The resulting decrease in blood flow may reduce the net removal of lipolysis metabolites from the extracellular fluid of adipose tissue.
NEFAs produced by lipolysis within the adipocytes may be more sensitive to change in blood flow. Glycerol is water-soluble and diffuses out of the adipocytes to move freely within extracellular fluid. NEFAs are not water-soluble and must be bound to protein carriers to move out of adipocytes and into the intracellular space. Newly NEFAs will therefore linger in the interstitial space surrounding adipocytes and possibly be reutilized (re-esterified) by surrounding adipocytes. Indeed, it has been shown that reduced blood flow in adipose tissue delayed NEFA and glycerol mobilization (25,26). Therefore, vasodilation induced by an antagonist that specifically blocks the a 2-adrenoceptors in the blood vessels of adipose tissue could increase lipolysis metabolite mobilization.
In vitro and in vivo studies suggest obesity may modify the response to the catecholamines due to differences in fat cell size, adrenoceptor populations and circulation (27-31). Continued investigation is needed to explain controversies in changes of regulatory mechanisms seen in altered physiological states. Additionally, physical exercise modifies changes in adipose tissue response to SNS. Gender differences are apparent during exercise, such as higher glycerol levels in circulating blood supply and in adipose tissue of women than in men. Microdialysis investigations report higher lipid mobilization from subcutaneous abdominal adipose tissue in women (9,32). Explanations for this gender response may be differences in adrenergic receptor population and activity. Glycerol levels in men were enhanced by a -adrenoceptor blockage. However, whether this was induced by direct blockage of adipocyte alpha-adrenoceptors or those of the vascular bed was not examined.

Thus far, this article has addressed the basic physiology of lipolysis and the interaction of the SNS and alpha-adrenoceptors. As alluded to throughout the preceding sections, manipulation of the SNS will have direct impact on lipolysis. It is useful to remember, however, that insulin is the main regulator of lipolysis. Therefore, as previously mentioned in Part 1 of this article, lowering insulin levels will allow for optimal manipulation of the SNS. Low levels of insulin increase plasma levels of catecholamines, stimulating lipolysis and loss of body fat. The SNS can also be manipulated by pharmaceuticals and naturally occurring substances. We will discover one such approach: mediation of the a 2-adrenoceptors.
Sympathomimetic compounds mimic the action of the SNS and release NE and E in addition to possessing direct b -adrenergic properties. Examples of these compounds are amphetamines, ephedrine and its various isomers. Isomers are compounds with the same formula but different molecular structure or different spatial arrangements. These differences greatly affect the activity/potency of the compound and the responses they elicit, as we will discover shortly.
Sympatholytic compounds inhibit adrenergic nerve activity in the SNS and some have direct postsynaptic adrenoceptor-blockage activity. Physiological responses of these compounds depend on several factors: chemical structure, type and subtype of adrenergic receptors (ARs), second messenger system (including G protein complex), and tissue site. Other factors include administration route of the compound, which influences absorption and metabolism, and dosage. To present a detailed discussion of pharmacology is beyond the scope of this article; therefore, only necessary details pertaining to the ensuing discussion are included.
Considered a sympatholytic, yohimbine has been used in herbal medicine for centuries. Yohimbine is one of a large family of indole alkaloids called yohimbanes. Indole alkaloids are naturally-occurring heterocylic amines derived from botanical sources. Yohimbine is the principal alkaloid found in extracts from the bark of the Pausinystlia yohimbe tree that grows in tropical West Africa and the Congo. It is structurally similar to reserpine and can also be isolated from the roots of Rauwolfia. Typical of many alkaloids, the yohimbanes have diverse pharmacological properties.
The basic yohimbane molecular structure contains five asymmetric carbons; yohimbine is one of 32 isomers within this family. The yohimbane alkaloids include antagonists that are selective for the alpha-AR. The selectivity of the various yohimbane alkaloids depends on the stereochemical configuration of the five carbon centers. That is, the shape and position of the various components of the compound determine how they interact with the receptors and potency of their response. Not only do they have differential activity at the alpha-AR types (a 1- versus a 2), but also within the subtypes (3,15,33).
Recall from the previous discussion on the a 2-AR subtypes that differences in their affinity for agonists and antagonists mediate the cell’s response. This interaction of yohimbane compounds and the AR subtypes determine their use as pharmacological tools and therapeutic agents. Therefore, the effects of the various yohimbanes will vary, as we shall see in our examination of the use of yohimbine.
Synthesized yohimbine and its isomer rauwolscine have been used as pharmacological tools to differentiate the alpha-ARs due to their selectivity as antagonists for the a 2-AR. Another isomer, corynanthine, is used for its selectivity for the a 1-AR. They have served as probes for classification of AR types and to assess a 2 adrenergic functions in man for several decades. Herbal preparations from plant parts, however, have been used as aphrodisiacs and euphorics for centuries. Recently, yohimbine has been promoted as a dietary supplement to enhance athletic performance and fat loss. This and various clinical applications will be examined in this article.
Early investigations demonstrate the activity of yohimbine as an a 2-antagonist that increases NE release and induces a hyperadrenergic state (33). Pharmaceutical studies show that yohimbine has high selectivity for the a 2-AR and weak affinity for the a 1-receptors. Its isomer rauwolscine has higher selectivity for the a 2-AR with little or no selectivity for the a 1 type. Later tissue and cells studies explained the mechanisms of various effects of yohimbine when administered to humans and other species by revealing the presence of a 2-AR and their functions at several sites within the body. Differential affinity of yohimbine and its isomers for the a 2-AR subtypes may also explain variability in tissue-specific responses.
Clinically, yohimbine has been administered to induce anxiety in psychiatric patients, orthostatic hypotension and other autonomic failure conditions, adjunct therapy for opiate withdrawal, and male organic impotence (15,34). It is widely used by veterinarians to reverse sedation or anesthesia in animals. Other therapeutical applications currently under research are as a glucose-dispersal agent for treatment of non-insulin dependent diabetes and to treat adverse effects of anti-depressants.
Yohimbine and Fat Loss
Since a 2-ARs are present on adipose tissue and inhibit lipolysis, yohimbine has been proposed as a pharmaceutical approach to fat loss. In vitro results demonstrated that E, a non-selective agonist for a /b -ARs, produced less lipolysis than a selective beta-agonist (33). However, when an a 2-antagonist, such as yohimbine, was added, E induced the same rate of lipolysis as the beta-agonist. Clinical investigations report yohimbine administration (0.2 mg/kg total body weight) increases plasma levels of NEFAs and glycerol in obese and non-obese women as well as in men (26,35,36). Yohimbine increased weight loss when used with hypocaloric diets in several studies by preventing an adaptive lowering of the SNS that usually occurs with most calorie-restriction (37). Resting energy expenditure did not change in a group of obese and lean women when administered yohimbine (38). However, exercise energy expenditure in same subjects was significantly potentiated along with accompanying parameter of lipolysis
Results from many studies conclude that the primary lipid-mobilizing effect of yohimbine is stimulation of the SNS (26,34,35). A beta-antagonist was administered to non-obese and obese subjects 60 minutes before yohimbine. This suppressed the b -AR effect of lipolysis induced by increases in NE levels. Plasma NEFA levels decreased, but plasma levels of NE were unchanged (34). However, yohimbine still had a transient lipid mobilizing effect evidenced by increased levels of NEFA after b -AR blockage (34,35). These results indicate that only a minor part of the lipid-mobilizing effect of yohimbine is attributed to direct blockage of the lipolysis inhibiting a 2-ARs on adipose tissue.
Discrepancies exist in methodology used in yohimbine and weight loss research. Considering that increases in NE levels after oral yohimbine is dose dependant (39), most studies have shown optimal dosage to be 0.2 mg/kg (8). Some studies have used much smaller dosages with less significant results. Another cause of discrepancy is timing of yohimbine administration. The lipid-mobilizing effects of yohimbine are completely negated when administered with or after a meal (35). Administration of a 2-antagonists such as yohimbine increases insulin secretion during glucose stimulation. This is attributable to the blockage of the a 2-ARs on pancreatic beta-cells and to concomitant stimulation of the pancreatic beta-ARs. Yohimbine was administered to test subjects in earlier studies which caused increased insulin secretion to blunt its lipid mobilizing effects (40). However, in fasting conditions, yohimbine does not increase insulin levels. These results demonstrate the importance of nutritional status when administering a 2-antagonists as lipid-mobilizing agents.
Studies suggest yohimbine may increase vasodilation in adipose tissue. Subjects administered yohimbine showed significantly increased levels of plasma NEFA when they changed from a supine position to an upright position (26). The increase in NEFA levels observed were probably due to b -AR stimulation of lipolysis and possibly an increase in net outflow of NEFA from adipose tissue due to yohimbine-induced decrease in local vasoconstriction. When nitroprusside, a vasodilator, was infused by microdialysis, extracellular glycerol concentrations decreased and escape of ethanol increased in adipose tissue (20,24). This suggests that the escape of glycerol from the extracellular spaces in adipose tissue can be accelerated by increased blood flow. The peripheral vasodilation effects of many a a-antagonists are known. However, the direct vasodilation effects in adipose tissue by yohimbine will need to be conclusively assessed by techniques such as microdialysis.
Increased peripheral vasodilation by blockage of the blood vessel wall a 2-ARs may increase systemic distribution of lipolysis by-products. Submaximal-intensity exercise could enhance net lipolysis in combination with yohimbine administration. Microdialysis studies suggest that NEFAs accumulate within adipose tissue during strenuous exercise due to limited transport into systemic blood supply (13). Recall that exercise-induced increases in blood flow does not rise in proportion to NEFA production (41,42). Therefore, the rate of systemic NEFA delivery does not increase simultaneously with increasing intensity of exercise. Accumulation of NEFA in adipose extracellular spaces may possibly exert a feedback inhibition on lipolysis. As well, vasoconstriction may be induced by high concentrations of NEFA or high sympathetic stimulation (43). Increased peripheral vasodilation in adipose tissue effected by a 2-antagonists may enhance removal of lipolysis by-products during low- to moderate-intensity exercise. Additionally, higher systemic transport of NEFA may increase their uptake into working muscles.
Considering the research that is available thus far, it is conceivable that the optimal plan for administrating yohimbine as a lipid-mobilizing agent would be early mornings after an overnight fast and several hours before breakfast. The relatively low levels of plasma glucose would not stimulate a yohimbine-potentiated increase in insulin that would otherwise negate its lipolytic effects. Utilization of body fat stores would be optimal with low insulin levels and lipid-mobilizing stimulation of the SNS. Conceivably, yohimbine administration could be followed in two to three hours by ingestion of a high-protein, high-fat meal. Protein ingestion will cause only a transient rise in plasma glucose levels with a concomitant rise in insulin secretion. Accompanying dietary fat will slow digestion and absorption of protein in the same meal. Therefore, the resulting insulin spike will only transiently blunt lipolysis.
Most of the studies with yohimbine as adjunct treatment for weight loss report very few side effects in subjects. However, whatever the therapeutic use, side effects will occur due to the blockage of a 2-ARs on other tissues. Dosage, nutritional status, and general physiological condition of the individual can modify these side effects. Side effects may consist of skin flushing, headaches, and excitement. Men may experience an increase in or prolonged erections possibly due to increase in vasodilation in the penile tissue, which has a high density of a -ARs.
Few study subjects experienced changes in blood pressure or rise in heart rate. This may be explained by blockage of both vascular a 1/a 2-ARs and minimizes the vascular responses induced by catecholamine release (15,33,44). However, vascular changes have been reported when yohimbine administration is accompanied by exercise. Anecdotally, many people dosing with yohimbine report rapid increase in heart rate during cardiovascular (aerobic) activity. It is wise to monitor heart rate closely when combining the two.
Some individuals experience profuse sweating and increased salivation at higher doses (45,46). Yohimbine will block the a 2-ARs mediating acetylcholine and effect the cholinergic system as mentioned in the beginning of this article installment. Other side effects may include water retention and increased colon excretion (47).
Most studies reported that subjects experienced little or no side effects with single oral dosages ranging from 5-20 mg. Those studies basing dosages on bodyweight (0.2mg/kg) also reported few problems with side effects. Yohimbine administration to subjects in psychiatric research induced episodes of anxiety in individuals with pre-diagnosed anxiety disorder (48). Control subjects did not experience similar effects. Central nervous system effects are dose dependent. High oral dosages (40 mg ) and intravenous administration may significantly increase plasma E levels with resulting increase in heart rate and blood pressure (49,50).
Several contraindications exist that individuals should be aware of when considering dosing with yohimbine. As with most any a 2-antagonist, yohimbine can acutely increase blood pressure in hypertensive patients. It should also not be combined with other drugs that are known to inhibit neuronal uptake or metabolism of NE, such as some anti-depressants. Individuals should also consider the tendency of yohimbine to evoke psychiatric reactions in those who are predisposed to anxiety or panic episodes (51). Yohimbine will act synergistically with ethanol to increase alcohol intoxication by increasing NE turnover albeit through different mechanisms (52).
Yohimbine Sources
In addition to other factors listed above, the magnitude and variety of responses to yohimbine depends on source. Pharmaceutical yohimbine is available by prescription in 2.4-mg tablets. Commonly called ‘yohimbe’, it is also widely available in over-the-counter herbal formulations and extracts. Anecdotal and personal observations support that responses to administration of herbal formulations and extracts are more varied and pronounced than from pharmaceutical yohimbine hydrochloride.
Recall from the earlier description of yohimbine that it is the principle alkaloid present in the bark of P. yohimbe. Of the 32 isomers of yohimbane, yohimbine, rauwolscine, and corynanthine are the most studied. While less research is available on the other isomers, several have been isolated and all have similar pharmacological effects with variation in potency and selectivity. For instance, yohimbine and rauwolscine are potent a 2-antagonists, with rauwolscine having more selectivity for the a 2-ARs and less a 1-AR activity than yohimbine, which also has weak a 1-antagonist activity. Conversely, corynanthine and raubasine are selective a 1-antagonists.
by Elzi Volk


Posted by: Robboe

Elzi Volk is a great mind.

I haven't read it yet, but i will in due time. I'm gonna write a 'mini-article' if you will about fat receptors and Y HCL before i read it, so my version may be more 'basic oriented', but will still tell you all you need to know.

I'll do that in a bit, but first:

Push:

BB bench - 2 sets, short of failure. (down one rep from last week).
Weighted dips - 2 sets, prolly hitting failure on each, setting a new PB on the first set.
Slight inclined DB flyes - 2 sets, new PB on second set. Both just shy of failure.

Side laterals - 2 sets.

CGBP - 2 sets, both shy of failure, second set being lighter with more reps.

Decent workout. My ehart rate wasn;t like it has bene in recent workouts, but still good none the less.


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by Yanick
i think i was the only one that actually read it though, lol.
Not true, I've read all of Pain...but thanks for bringing it over!


Posted by: Robboe

Ok, this has took me about 90 minutes. A lot of my notes for this were done of the top of my head at work today though, so if you spot anything wrong or mis-typed then please inform me.

And remember, if i seem to contradict myself, it's just that i have stated two diametrically opposed truths, thus making me twice as right

Fat Receptors and Yohimbine HCL – The Basics

To begin with, we have the catecholmines, which are epinephrine and norepinephrine (aka adrenalin and noradrenalin respectively), out of which, norepinephrine (NE) is the most potent (And is incidentally the most thermogenic hormone in the body). NE stimulates both alpha-2 receptors (a-2) and Beta-2 receptors (b-2) of adipose (fat) cells. These receptors are called ‘adrenergic receptors’, out of which there are only alpha and beta, but both have subtypes 1, 2 and 3 (i.e. a-1, a-2, a-3 and b-1, b-2, b-3). Lipolysis is dictated by which receptors are activated. It is via these receptors that ephedrine (Eph) and caffeine (Caf) exert their effects (and Yohimbine as you shall later read). As mentioned earlier, NE activates (all) these receptors, which is how eph and caf indirectly affect them, because they stimulate the release of NE.

Activation of the beta receptors (especially b-2) is good because it encourages lipolysis by stimulating NE release. However, activating the a-2 receptors is not so good because they inhibit NE release. Activating beta receptors also increases peripheral blood flow, whereas alpha receptor activation decreases blood flow. ‘Stubborn fat’ is stubborn, not only cause the body is striving to keep you alive, but also because of poor blood flow to those particular adipocytes (fat cells). There are also more alpha to beta receptors in stubborn fat, which is quite typical.

The lower the catecholmines level, the more alpha receptor activation will happen, so thermogenesis is significantly nulled and potential ‘switched off’. This basically means that for most of the day thermogenesis is quite insignificant. Y inhibits a-2 receptors to some degree (more later), but the a-2 receptors are always trying to reduce lipolysis.

For a brief summary thus far, NE is not selective of what receptors it activates, but for optimal fat burning we want maximum b-2 receptor activation and minimum a-2 activation, even total a-2 inhibition if possible.

Now for a quick look at NE and how it works.

NE is synthesized in the sympathetic nerves and stored in storage vesicles. When stimulated past a certain threshold by adrenergic drugs such as eph, caf or Y, or even simply by basic exercise the vesicles release NE into the synaptic cleft. It is here in the synaptic cleft that it stimulates the adrenergic receptors. Once exerting it’s effect, about 90% of the NE is taken back up by the sympathetic nerves and re-stored in the vesicles or is metabolised in the mitochondria by monoamine oxidase (MAO) – or more specifically (MAO-A). Another mechanism for NE metabolism is when it is taken away from the receptors and metabolised by catechol-O-methyl-transferase (COMT). Incidentally, green tea contains a catechin, called EGCG, which inhibits COMT and thus, prolongs the life of NE in the synaptic cleft allowing more receptor stimulation. But COMT plays a minor role in this compared to MAO, so suppression of it is not as dangerous as MAO inhibition.

Yohimbine is the active part of the herb ‘Yohimbe’ and unlike eph, is selective to which receptor it binds to, and fortunately, it selects the a-2 receptor, inhibiting its actions. This is good because it helps maximise NE, which is what we want, since it is the most potent fat burning hormone in the body. By inhibiting the a-2 receptor, it also inhibits any decreases of peripheral blood flow, and if you’re taking something to activate b-2 receptors then you’re increasing blood flow and thermogenesis, thus increasing FFA mobilisation and metabolism of these fats.

One concern of Yohimbine is that it is an MAO inhibitor. As mentioned earlier, MAO is required for metabolism of NE, thus, by inhibiting this you risk some potential risky side effects if combining it with something like EC, including elevated heart rate, increased blood pressure etc… And if you’re taking it prior to performing cardio (which further increases heart rate) then you could be setting yourself up for a nasty shock.

There are also calls that the best use of Yohimbine is with higher doses, but orally, you risk over stimulation of the CNS, so one method around this is by using the yohimbine transdermally, which does have potential, as the Y goes straight to the fat cells to do it’s job as opposed to be passed around the body systematically before getting to it’s destination – and in the process probably killing you with those doses!

Oral yohimbine does leave adequate amounts of the compound in the blood though, and oral supplementation is much cheaper, so it is fine.

For DP, as far as insulin is concerned, insulin actually blunts the lipolytic effects of Y, so taking it in conjunction with a cyclical carb diet or ketosis diet would be ideal. If not, taking it a few hours away from meals involving carbs should still be ok.


Posted by: Robboe

I know i missed any ideas or thoughts today, but i tend to think mostly either at work or on the stepper, which, if i do tomorrow, i'll put some down in 'ere.

I do have a few though, including rotating carb loads to benefit different weightlifting sessions to aid each bodypart and performing a light GPP workout at home on those bodyparts which i intend to hit the next day - to increase local blood flow to the area, theoretically distributing the glycogen more in those areas, thereby hopefully increasing weightlifting performance the following day.


And boy wasn't that the longest sentence in the world...


So far, 50g dex, 50g malto, 2 scoops whey, 6g CLA, 1mg biotin.

40 minutes later, 250g oats.

lmao. Can you say 'bloated'?

No rice tonight, i have neither the time nor the patience to cook any.

I'll shove down some more oats in a bit and hit the sack.

I can already feel myself sweating a bit, actually.


Posted by: Dr. Pain

Thanks Yanick and TCD!


w8....you rock!


DP


Posted by: Robboe

update:

150g more oats and i can prolly take some more, but that takes me up to about 372g carbs for this carb load and that'll do me nicely.


Posted by: nikegurl

I collect Pain posts! I was never on ABC so thanks Yanick!


Posted by: Dr. Pain

NG, you need a download from my librarian!


DP


Posted by: nikegurl

i did a search of posts by user name over there....it's gonna take a while! i have a pretty good stash of goodies from your posts here but i'm going to be adding to it! good stuff DP. all appreciated.


Posted by: nikegurl

hmmm....i think maybe some of your stuff on ABC is gone? i see the bulking on slow burners (we had that here too) and not much else really. damn!


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by nikegurl
hmmm....i think maybe some of your stuff on ABC is gone? i see the bulking on slow burners (we had that here too) and not much else really. damn!
Possibly...are you looking in the archived boards?


Posted by: nikegurl

i went to the main site and did a search by user's name. i'll look for the archived boards - they're kept separate?

thanks, w8! i like stocking up on the info and good reading stuff.


Posted by: Robboe

Went shopping straight after work and so did cardio much later.

Cause of this, i only had 100mg caff and 2g L-Tyrosine, drank a GT and then went to the gym.

3 minute warm up.

5 minute all out.

3 minutes walk.

4 minutes all out.

then 15 minutes on the stepper.

Seems shorter than usual, which indeed it is, but a) i didn't feel quite up to it and b) I would have missed the start of James Bond had i done the full routine.

I'm off to watch the second half now, so thoughts will be added tomorrow, along with an update of my back workout.


Posted by: w8lifter

lmao!


Posted by: Robboe

You find my lack of energy humerous, mrs?


Posted by: w8lifter

No...I find you cutting cardio short for James Bond humourous


Posted by: Robboe

Don't diss james, he's the man.

Back:

Weighted WG chins - 2 sets (progressed).

BB rows - 2 sets (progressed).

Cable rows - 2 sets (N/A).

DB shrugs - 2 sets (progressed).

BB curls - 2 sets (N/A, since i've not done bicep work directly for about 3-4 weeks).

Both biceps sets were waay short of failure.

I've had little steam most of today, not sure why. Maybe cause i swapped my usual breakfast to some strawberries and cream (after tuna for protein, naturally). I think the strawberries may have fucked me over a bit. They tend to do this when i eat them for my 3rd meal too. Maybe it's the sugar in them? Or some other kind of seritonnin compound?

Personally, no clue.

Ah well.


Posted by: Yanick

sleep?


Posted by: Robboe

Shouldn't be. I get at least 7 hours a night. Sometimes closer to the 8 bracket.


Posted by: Robboe

Felt much better for most of the day, until near the end of my working day when i got tired and restless.

Took 2g L-Tyrosine and 200mg caff, drank 2 cups of green tea and went and did some GPP.

squats: 3 sets, 15 reps.

SLDL's: 3 sets, 15 reps (everything was the same, incidentally, for all exercises).

Hammer strength pull down.

BB bench.

Cable row.

Decline cable machine press.

shoulder press.

pressdowns.

Then did 20 minutes on the bike.

Ate some chicken breast.

10 minute sauna.

I'm off to see Gold member soon.

I'll post my thoughts and ideas tomorrow when i may have some more time.


Posted by: FAngel

Nice work Rob.

On the GPP front, Lyle misses out one of the most effective forms which is sled dragging. If you've got access it to, you'll benefit from it immensely


Posted by: Robboe

Actually, the GPP workout i wrote is one that I do, Lyle hasn;t recommended GPP. I did for fun.

I went and did some cardio today:

200mg caf, 25mg (i think) eph, 2g L-Tyrosine. A cup of GT while i waited.

5.5 minutes run.

2.5 minute walk.

4 minute run.

3 minute walk.

3 minute run.

Collapse.

Resusitated, 30 minutes on the stepper.


Posted by: Robboe

Well, usually last night would have been a carb up, but since this weekend is a bank holiday weekend (ie we get monday off work over here) there was a plan to go to whitley bay (the place with the "old biddies") to see a band play that we know. Then stick around for a few cheeky ones and then get the metro (read: 'underground', if you're unsure) into the city centre and continue the shennanigans. Thus, i've switched days for my carb loads and am considering my beer-swilling as part of my 'carb load'.

I've been training and such, and waited a bit before starting my carb load today at about 1pm with some decent carbs first and foremost - dex/malto, 2 scoops whey, 6g CLA, 1g vitamin C; i've had a pro-MR MRP that i found in m cupboard (prolly about 4 years out of date knowing me) and i've had a couple of peak body buttermilk flapjacks. Damn nice they were too. Oh, and i've had 4 weetabix.

The drinking shall commence around the 3pm region.

So today i trained legs without glycogen

Squats: 2 sets of 2 with my heaviest weight, then 2 sets with descending weight for differing rep ranges.
SLDLs: set a new PB here actually Did 3 sets.
Hacks: 3 sets, also set a new PB.

So overall not a bad session.

I still haven't gotten round to explaining my alternating carb loading patterns yet, but it'll come eventually.


Posted by: Robboe

Oh, i weighed in yesterday morning too, and am down 1lb, which is trés bien.

And hey, if anyone is interested, my SLDL PB was with 172.5k for 3 good reps.

That's 379.5lbs. I'll have nailed 400lbs by the end of the year.


Posted by: Robboe

A) The band were great.

B) I'm pissed as a trooper.

C) i'm eating breakfast ceereal. Mmmm...

D) There talk about going to newcastle race course tomorrow, but i'm not sure if i'm going. If i do it'll be another diet fuck up. But hey...


Posted by: Robboe

Well, drunken i was that night. So much so, that when we got out of the taxi home i made a bee-line for the takeaway. Got a naan bread and chips. And once i got home, in a struggle with the stiff porch door i managed to scatter my chips all over the porch floor.

I was irrate.

But scooped them up and ate them anyway.

THAT'S how drunk i was.

Anyway, i left great today, full of energy, which i attribute to re-elevated leptin from the influx of all the carbs i consumed.

It carried over in my workout today too.

I went to a party last night too, but stuck to diet, since i was still a bit iffy from sunday's malarkey.

Today i progressed on bench by a rep from last week, set a new PR on weighted dips and equaled a PR on flyes. I was much pleased.

Side laterals and CGBP seem to be sticking though, but alas...


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Well, drunken i was that night. So much so, that when we got out of the taxi home i made a bee-line for the takeaway. Got a naan bread and chips. And once i got home, in a struggle with the stiff porch door i managed to scatter my chips all over the porch floor.

I was irrate.

But scooped them up and ate them anyway.

THAT'S how drunk i was.




Posted by: Robboe

Exactly.

From what little i remember, they tasted really nice too...


Posted by: w8lifter

I just had a great visual of a drunken irate Chicken Baby...fuk...too funny


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
I just had a great visual of a drunken irate Chicken Baby...fuk...too funny

Hahaha, i've just been told by my sister's boyfriend that i was apparently kicking the chips all over once they were on the floor before apologising, telling them i didn't really mean it and then picking them up and eating them.


Posted by: Twin Peak

TCD, love the journal. A most excellent read. I have a few of questions though:

Why take the caff by itself -- or is that just like me drinking coffee?

Have you traditionally been this low volume?

Why do you rarely post the weights used? I am curious to see the progression.

Why the aversion to training to failure?

How much BF/weight are you looking to lose?


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy



Hahaha, i've just been told by my sister's boyfriend that i was apparently kicking the chips all over once they were on the floor before apologising, telling them i didn't really mean it and then picking them up and eating them.

lmao....even funnier!


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by Twin Peak
TCD, love the journal. A most excellent read.
Thanks man, I'm doing it as a way to show people on this site the basics of how to go about stuff like this (ie dieting strategies, how to fit diet in with everyday life and upkeeping of your social status etc...)

Quote:
I have a few of questions though:

Why take the caff by itself -- or is that just like me drinking coffee?
Just following Lyle's recommendation for stubborn fat. I wouldn't say i'm at a stubborn fat stage just now, but i'm trying the routine anyway, cause he asked me to. I actually think i'll just use exerts from this journal to send to him, in fact.

Quote:
Have you traditionally been this low volume?
You think it's low?

Personally, i think it's spot on.

Obviously when i first started training i was 10 sets for each exercise and all that jazz, but i've been doing this kind of training, probably ever since i first started the 'bodybuilding' chapter of my life. Before then i spent a good long while focusing on cardio and ridiculous training volumes on machines and no free weights etc...

Quote:
Why do you rarely post the weights used? I am curious to see the progression.
Yeah ok, just for you i'll post weights used, but since dieting progression ain't all that evident (although not totally absent).

For your eyes only, here's some lifts that may mean something:

Squats: 160k

SLDLs: 172.5k

Bench: 102.5k (sucky, i realise, but next gain i'll work on it. I had to spend a lot of time using DB's cause of shoulder trouble).

Weighted dips: +43.75k

BB row: currently at 90k, i think, but i've only just started doing these again properly after not doing them for years.

Weighted chin: +15k (another sucky lift, but i've only just started doing them again. Until recently i was using the hammer strength pulldown for my vertical rows, and using somewhere in the region of 150k.

Quote:
Why the aversion to training to failure?
Not really an aversion. Some weeks i'll train to and past failure, others i won't. The weeks i stop short of failure, i'll note it. You can usually guess when i've gone past failure cause i'll type my reps as X + 2 (ie 2 forced reps), or + 2 negs (2 negatives).

Quote:
How much BF/weight are you looking to lose?
As much as possible, staying within a 'healthy' region for my setpoint. I see no point in trying to get into competition shape (which i've a doubt i can achieve without drug assistance) when i've no interest in competiton. I want to look good naked, but since i've been a fat bastard pretty much all my life, it's hard - not only getting to where i want to be, but also maintaining. Basically, i set myself 20 weeks of cutting time. I've done 12 so far. In another 8 weeks, wherever i am, is where i'll stop before doing a slow gain (aroound 0.5lbs a week), hopefully keeping any fat gain to a minimum.


Posted by: Twin Peak

Without you hating me can you tell me who Lyle is?

I would hope that you believe the volume you are doing is "spot on"; but you must recognize that it is relatively low, the key being relatively. I believe that I tend toward the low volume side (8-10 sets per BP) but you are even lower.

Regarding that weights....thanks for the info but what is the conversion to pounds.....I know....us damn americans!

Maintaining has always been very difficult for me as well. Before I started my bodybuilding chapter my waist was almost a size 48"


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by Twin Peak
Without you hating me can you tell me who Lyle is?
Lyle McDonald.

Probably the world's leading fat loss/fat gaining guru.

And possibly the internet's funniest personality.

Quote:
I would hope that you believe the volume you are doing is "spot on"; but you must recognize that it is relatively low, the key being relatively. I believe that I tend toward the low volume side (8-10 sets per BP) but you are even lower.
I used to do 4 sets for large parts max. 2 for smaller ones. How's that?

Quote:
Regarding that weights....thanks for the info but what is the conversion to pounds.....I know....us damn americans!
Multiply kg's by 2.2 to get lbs conversion.

Quote:
Maintaining has always been very difficult for me as well. Before I started my bodybuilding chapter my waist was almost a size 48"
I started this diet at 38", 12 weeks later i'm 34-34.5".

Maintaining a lower setpoint is a bastard. I wish you could reset it.


Posted by: Twin Peak

Thanks!


Posted by: Robboe

Took 200mg caf, 2g L-Tyrosine and drank two, yes that's two cups of green tea. What can i say? I like green tea.

6 minutes progressive run.

3 minute walk.

3 minute progressive run.

2.5 minute walk.

1.5 minute 10.5mph sprint, after this, the shooting heart pains told me it was time to get off, lol.

Waited a bit and started on the stepper for 30 minutes.

Well, that is the end for cardio for at least a week, cause i'm off down London for a wedding on saturday, and we're setting off on friday afternoon. Not getting back till Sunday evening, so no doubt diet will be totally off for these three days.

My auntie has alziehmers (totally wrong spelling i know, but i'm tired and lazy so kiss my ass) and she's driving my nana round the bend going to her house every 3 minutes. Her husband is being paid to care for her, but he's using the money and going into the bookies and leaver her, the fucker. Anyway, we brought my nana up for a few days to let her get a good night's sleep.

We took her down the fish quay tonight, a region at the mouth of the Tyne where all the fish markets are, for a lemon soul supper.

And the Toon made it into the champions league! C'mon!

Only eating 5 meals today. I'm not gonna bother with my last meal of the day. Time for bed now, methinks.


Posted by: Duncan

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy


Lyle McDonald.

And possibly the internet's funniest personality.
You, my friend, are obviously a little mistaken by this statement. I am at least 3x funnier than Lyle McDonald, even on an off day.

Oh, by the way, I have a ? Do you carb up exclusively on off days? I have been carbing up on Wed and Sat which just happen to be off days, but I have been sick the past 2 days and am a little off,


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy


My auntie has alziehmers (totally wrong spelling i know, but i'm tired and lazy so kiss my ass) and she's driving my nana round the bend going to her house every 3 minutes.
See, this is what I like about you Chicken Baby, your ability to be absolutely adorable and insulting in the same sentence


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter


See, this is what I like about you Chicken Baby, your ability to be absolutely adorable and insulting in the same sentence
I do try.


Duncsy, I'll take your word for it.

As far as carbing goes, i set it up for saturday nights for two reasons: 1. so i can training legs on sunday mornings with glycogen (since cardio drains them quite a bit) and 2. most nights out usually fall on a saturday, so i can go drinking but still kinda stay on diet.

I then carb up on tuesday evenings, a few hours after chest/tris/delts. Purely because it's mid-week and 3 days after my other carb load.

The good thing about the loads, however, is that they're flexibile in the way that you can just reajust them. ie if i wanted to go out on friday i'd just carb load then instead of saturday and still manage to kinda stay on track.

Two more days on the downcycle isn't gonna make or break your diet. Just carb up when you're ready and up for it and then re-adjust from there.


Posted by: Robboe

Still no Yohimbine HCL yet, which is kinda starting to pish me off a tad.

Today's back workout:

Wide grip weighted chins: 16.25k [35.75] - 4 (a PR)
16.25k - 3
dropped: bw - 4

Bw - 5

BB rows: 90k [198] - 6 (eq PR)
90k - 5
dropped: 80k [176] - 4
dropped: 60k [132] - 5

DB rows: 50k [110] - 8 (on both arms)
50k - 6
dropped: 36k - 6 (same on both arms)

Kneeling shrugs: 70k [154] - 5

Progression on chins today, which i'm well chuffed about.

I got some Cds today too: 'Vulgar display of power' by Pantera, which i've been after for ages; 'All eyez on me' by Tupac Shakur; and finally 'make yourself' by Incubus.

I'm quite pleased with all purchases. Especially since i got all three to the tune of 20 notes.

I go down london tomorrow for a wedding on saturday. Diet will be fucked up totally until monday, but i'll try and keep cals low anyway. Except for Saturday, when i'll be the drunkest Usher this side of the pond


Posted by: kuso

'Vulgar display of power' is one great workout cd


Posted by: Robboe

I love 'walk'.

Anyway, off to London for a few days so you'll not hear from me till either sunday night or monday evening.

Diet will be off (already is actually since i'm eating processed cereal(s)) but i'll try and keep cals moderate.


Posted by: cytrix

TCD Do you split your carb ups into 2 meals, as in the body builders NHE eating plan? You are loosing body fat nicely, even though you eat a lot of carbs on youe carb load - I am wondering,m if I could eat mre or should eat more - I stick with 1g/lb lean mass right now, because I am afraid I won't loose otherwise. What do you think would be a good amount for me? By the way, I LOVE YOUR JOURNAL! I hope you get your Y soon.


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by cytrix
TCD Do you split your carb ups into 2 meals, as in the body builders NHE eating plan? You are loosing body fat nicely, even though you eat a lot of carbs on youe carb load - I am wondering,m if I could eat mre or should eat more - I stick with 1g/lb lean mass right now, because I am afraid I won't loose otherwise. What do you think would be a good amount for me? By the way, I LOVE YOUR JOURNAL! I hope you get your Y soon.
Thanks, it's cool you're benefitting from it. It makes these time-taking updates worth it.

I split it into three meals. eventually, i think i'll drop the liquid carbs and just focus on real food. It'll prolly drop my total carb load down to the 220g region, cause there's just so much food you can pack in without feeling natious. Not sure when i'll complete that transaction though, since i'm only doing this for a further 7 weeks, i think.

As far as your carb loading goes, let me get back to you in a few minutes. I got a PM asking about the benefits of carbloads and i think you benefit from reading it. Carb loads actually assist your efforts. Trust me, I'm a doctor*

Well, London was ace. I've basically had a three day 'refeed'. Friday was a piss-take as far as food consumption goes. I ate a hella lot. Saturday is much of a blur, but i was getting into one of the bridesmaids, that much i remember.

I'm planning on getting my scanner from upstairs so i can post some photos up for you all to glimpse my annoyingly handsome, good self. There are actually some stills from the wedding on the net, courtesy of the official video director, who was constantly in your face. Unfortunately you can't really see me on any of the given stills, so there's little point linking them. I also have some other photos from recent outings and events that i'm gonna try and scan in. We'll see how it goes (ie we'll see how lazy i am).

Today my cals aren't gona be high as such, but they're certainly not in dieting region. Nor have i been on NHE for these days, too many carbs. But i'm back to the grind tomorrow diet wise and i re-start my campaign with a treat of squats and stiffs. What a beautiful combo.

More in a bit.

* Blatant lie.


Posted by: Robboe

Ok, here's a snip from a PM from last week:

Quote:
Firstly, one carb load, which is relatively small by all standards, since you're only able to pack in so many in any one sitting without being natious, is not gonna reset your metabolism.

Personally, this whole metabolic shifting thing to me holds no water. I personally think (and this is my thoughts, which mean absolutely nothing as far as fact and/or science go) that the body prefers burning fat over carbs for the most part, but will happily burn carbs if it's getting the bulk of it's calories from them. I think Rob has included the 'metabolic shift' is for a few reasons: Firstly, it's got a fancy name, which dumb people think as 'magical' (a bit like ketosis is a 'magical' evirnoment) so there's the phychological aspect ie people will stick to something more if they think it's something special (ie it's not, you just eat less calories on it, so it works).

Secondly, it depletes glycogen quicker so you feel shittier for a less prolonged amount of time (depleting is an awful experience).

Thirdly, it makes people feel awful for a short time, so being on the regular downcycles feels better in comparison, thus they feel happier to know the 'worst' is over. And usually stick to it.

Also, you drop a shit load of water, take great heart from this as weightloss and stick to it (another phychological thing).

But few carbs slows conversion of T4 (inactive thyroid hormone) to T3 (the active hormone), T3 being a thyroid (and thus calorie) boosting hormone - ie more T3, more calorie expenditure via thyroid. A short carb load every few days either keeps the conversion happening, or may even 'upregulate' the T3 levels to higher than they were (doubtful, since any cal deficit drops leptin, and leptin pulls down thyroid and other things in cascading effect). Thus, carb loading is beneficial.

It also fills muscle glycogen stores so your weight training efforts don't suffer too much, and the insulin gets the IGF-1 involved, potentially either repairing and restoring muscles or building upon them.

The carb loads are also at night, before bed. This means you can realistically only eat so much before bed time, so you'll never really go over the top. I'd guess about 200-300g max in such a short space of time.

So, the carb loads aren't really gonna set you burning carbs preferentially again, not in such small amounts (by comparison). But like i said earlier, i'm doubtful you can really 'reset' your metabolism like that, purely from surroundings alone. I'd guess it's more of a genetic thing ie we're programmed to get the bulk of our energy from fat/protein anyway. (think primitive man etc...)

That cleared stuff up?



Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

Trust me, I'm a doctor*

Saturday is much of a blur, but i was getting into one of the bridesmaids, that much i remember.

* Blatant lie.



Posted by: cytrix

Hey TCD, i'm glad you had a good time. What do you think regarding the amount of carbs I should eat, to maximally refill glycogen stores, but still keep fat loss at maximum levels too. Should it be based on your lean body weight in lbs? Rob doesn't really go into this.

Btw, are you gonna carb load after 3 days now, although you had carbs for three days straight?


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by cytrix
Hey TCD, i'm glad you had a good time. What do you think regarding the amount of carbs I should eat, to maximally refill glycogen stores, but still keep fat loss at maximum levels too. Should it be based on your lean body weight in lbs? Rob doesn't really go into this.

Btw, are you gonna carb load after 3 days now, although you had carbs for three days straight?
Well, to 'maximally refill' glycogen stores, requires full glycogen supercompensation. Basically, think the weekend on a CKD. That's how to do it. But then again, that's totally off limits with this diet.

Your carb loads are to just keep things running and provide a bit of glycogen for your training.

Rob doesn't go into it because this is supposed to be an easy diet to follow for the average (lazy) person, and countning and weighing stuff is something that most just can't be arsed with. Thus, the carb loads are just how much you can eat in 1-2 meals before bed.

I'm actually going to a house warming this friday, so there'll be no carb loads until that day, when i'll just count the beer as a carb load. I think i'll try and squeeze some rice or oats in there somewhere too. We'll see how it goes.


Posted by: Robboe

Ok, did legs today. The Toon are playing Liverpool in a mo, and it's on TV so this'll be a quicky.

Squats: 160k [352] - 3
160k - 2
140k - 3
dropped: 100k - 8
dropped: 60k - 6

SLDLs: 172.5k [379.5] - 4! (A PR, had to really push for rep 4).
160k - 3 / 140k - 6

Hack machine: 75k - 4
60k - 5

Did some calf work and then finished.

I was suffering from some weird sharp stabbing hunger pains throughout this workout, which was well annoying.

I'm moving back into NHE mode and it's quite annoying. This depleting malarkey is such a nonce around. I've actually upped my volume a tad to waste some glycogen so i can get back to how i was quicker. Some may think crazy, but then again, that's them. And i'm ace.

And that's that.


Posted by: hardasnails1973

On carb load Chicky whats is your opinon of using ALA say like 1.5 grams ? ANy commnets I would like to hear.

Thanks hardasnails


Posted by: Robboe

Well, i don't really know that much on ALA.

What i do know, is that it's an excellent anti-oxidant.

There's also the statement that it aids glucose uptake by muscle cells in muscles via the GLUT4 receptor. Of course fat also has this receptor, so from what i can gather, it also aids glucose uptake in fat cells. Whether this is totally true, i'm unsure. I'm also unsure whether this is a good (cause it may help with refeeding) or bad thing.


Posted by: Robboe

My legs are hella sore from yesterday. Hams ad lower back especially. And yes, i realise my lower back ain't my legs, so no smart ass comments.

I trained push earlier. Good fun t'was.

Bench: 2 sets, first using 102.5k [225.5] for 5 reps. This actually equalled a PR, which is good in the sense that i'm still gaining strength bit by bit, but also bad cause a bench of that amount...sucks, basically. Compared to my other lifts anyway.

Weighted dips: 2 sets, first with 43.75k [96.25] for 4 reps. One down from last week. My first bench set musta knocked it outta me.

Decline machine press: just one set with 235k [517] for 7 reps, which, although i hit failure, is a lower weight than i'm used to usually using. (my god that sounds like a funny sentence with all those 'us').

Inclined flyes: 2 sets, first with 38k DB's, but i only got 3 reps so i dropped it a bit. Second set i used the 32k's. I got 6 and finished when those little black dots in my eyes told me the set was done.

Side laterals: 3 sets.

CGBP: 2 sets. Seem to be stuck on my heaviest weight with this. Most likely from so much pre-fatigure from other presses. Not something i'm worried about right now.

Again, you'll notice the higher than usual volume for me, since i'm trying to drop some glycogen to make this transition quicker. This also means no standard carb load tonight. No real carbs till friday actually.


Posted by: cytrix

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy


Well, to 'maximally refill' glycogen stores, requires full glycogen supercompensation. Basically, think the weekend on a CKD. That's how to do it. But then again, that's totally off limits with this diet.

Your carb loads are to just keep things running and provide a bit of glycogen for your training.

Rob doesn't go into it because this is supposed to be an easy diet to follow for the average (lazy) person, and countning and weighing stuff is something that most just can't be arsed with. Thus, the carb loads are just how much you can eat in 1-2 meals before bed.


Doc , so what is a good amount to take in? I think w8 and DP's carb up meal come to about 1g/lb bodyweight. I thought, maybe it would be even better to base it on lean weight? How much total do you takein - I am asking, since you are loosing body fat and eating probably more than that, which will probably help you with your weight training.
Do you gain lean mass the way you do it, allthough you're also using EC and doing a lot of cardio?
Did you get your Y yet?


Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

this'll be a quicky.
Mmmm...quicky


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by cytrix
Doc , so what is a good amount to take in? I think w8 and DP's carb up meal come to about 1g/lb bodyweight. I thought, maybe it would be even better to base it on lean weight? How much total do you takein - I am asking, since you are loosing body fat and eating probably more than that, which will probably help you with your weight training.
Do you gain lean mass the way you do it, allthough you're also using EC and doing a lot of cardio?
Did you get your Y yet?

Well, since there's no actual figure for it, why not just go with their carb up idea and see how it goes.

When i do a proper carb up i prolly take in about 250-300g, with the first 100g coming from liquid carbs. I haven't done a proper carb up for a week and a bit though, since the wedding and such has gotten in the way. I also jiggle a social life at the same time as dieting, so beer swilling usually gets classed in my carb ups.

I may be taking in more, but also note that i am bigger than you (not gloating, just stating fact). No real mass gain, no. As much as you'd like to, you don't add muscle in calorie deficit. Even though i cycle high calorie days in there, the anabolic effect really only maintains what i've built.

I only use Ephedrine once a week right now, since i haven't got many left. I'm currently on the hunt for some though. Hopefully i'll be able to take it more regularly when i do. I also only take the caf + L-Tyrosine combo just before any cardio. I'm currently off the cardio till maybe next monday night. I'd think about doing some on saturday morning to try and burn off some of the previous night's beer, but i'll have to see how i feel.

No Yohimbine yet, no. I'm thinking it might be stuck in customs. I hope it comes soon.

DOMS update: ouch.

Well, just my legs and lower back still. No real soreness in my chest, delts or tris - just basic fatigue.

No cardio cause of this soreness.

Pull tomorrow.


Posted by: Twin Peak

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

No Yohimbine yet, no. I'm thinking it might be stuck in customs. I hope it comes soon.
Chicken, Y is not something I am familiar with and I really liked your peice on it. Is this something that is readily available, like at a GNC? If so I am headed there in a bit and may pick some up.

What are the proper doses?


Posted by: Robboe

I'm glad you liked it.

However, it is only a minor part of a larger article on thermogenic drugs and their effects on the body i'm writing for wbb.

I have a few ideas for other articles too. One i'm writing up right now is about dieting basics and how dieting effects the body and why getting lean and staying there is such a bastard. I'll send you a link when it's up.

I'm not sure if it's available at GNC, purely because there's no GNC's anywhere near where i live. The closest is about 1000 miles in your direction

I know you can get yohimbe from health shops over there (i think), but just like ephedra, if you want the potent part (like ephedrine) then try and find yohimbine.

www.1fast400.com is a place where you can get it cheap, orally and/or transdermally. In fact, it's uite a good website overall.

For dosing and such, check a thread i posted in for Cytrix. I'll bump it up for you in a sec.

The doses differ between orals and transdermals, depending on which route you take.


Posted by: Twin Peak

Thanks. I saw Yohimbe in GNC but not Yohimbine.


Posted by: Robboe

Trained back today.

I can't be bothered to type up actual numbers, but the session was decent.

WG chins, BB rows, DB shrugs and i was done.


I must remember to weigh in tomorrow morning, cause my usual saturday morning weigh in is no gonna happen.

I'm off to a house warming party. I start drinking at 5pm tomorrow, to do some pre-house-warming pub warming lol.

Should be fun.


Posted by: Robboe

I weighed in 4lbs heavier today.

Last week i was 200.5lbs. Today i weighed 204.5lbs.

Reasons?

1. Last weekend's away trip. Definately supercompensated glycogen. I definately spilled over. I know this cause on monday the fat around my abs was actually sore. I've had this feeling a few times before actually, usually the day after a total binge day (ie high carbs + high fat - sometimes 2 cheesecakes during this time lol. Ahh...those were the days...) So i'm still holding some from then.

2. Weighing in so close to the weekend. I've only been back in calorie deficit for 4 days before this, so i wasn't expecting to be lower in weight. Tonight i'm drinking, so that'll most likely effect my weight further so i didn;t see much point in waiting any longer before weighing in.

Incidentally, this was my fifteenth weigh in since beginning dieting. It really has flew, i can assure you. Great for me actually. This diet has been much better than my last.

Since starting this diet (not NHE, just dieting in general) 15 weeks ago, i was 220lbs, considering last week's weight and not today's, that's 19.5lbs lost. And i doubt much, if any of it is muscle. If there was, i'd say 2-3lbs max. Which i'm extremely pleased about.

This week i've felt quite brilliant too. I attribute this to last weekend's leptin boosting and the lack of cardio this week. Definately feel better for it all round. Cardio will start up again soon though, if not tomorrow (depending on how rough i feel) then definately monday night after work.

I'm sitting here trying to think of things to do to take my mind off food. Whenever i know a carb load or a 'cheat' is coming up, for some reason i just wanna start it there and then, y'know. Like thinking, "i'm gonna fuck up anyway, so why not start now?"

I've had this feeling loads of times. But once i start, i know i'll just wanna keep on going and it'll push my cals for the day way too high. Especially with the drink. I'll also eat so much i'll feel uncomfortable and bloated for the rest of the day.

Just gotta take my head off it.


Posted by: Robboe

Just had a few strawberries and i feel much better now.


Posted by: kuso

I thought you were already feeling "brilliant"?


Posted by: Robboe

Energy wise and well being, i am.

But when i know i'm gonna cheat it gets tough.

Even when i know i'm going out drinking or whatever, i still try to keep myself in fat burning mode as much as possible. I look at drinking or carb loading as more of fat burning halting, rather than adding fat.


Posted by: ponyboy

Do you think the alcohol consumption may be lingering in your system causing some of the differences you noted?

Just interested in your thoughts on booze and how long the effects remain in the system, because I have read varying reports. How much, if at all could this be affecting thing on your end?


Posted by: Robboe

I doubt it.

what is alcohol's half-life?

4 hours or so (or is it 8?) for every unit (ie pint or shot or glass of wine).

Even though i drank a shitload over the weekend (friday and saturday), i don't think it's still gonna be in me now.

I also dropped a lot of water over monday, tuesday and wednesday, although clearly not all of it. This i put more down to intramuscular glycogen than alcohol, although your theory is a perfectly valid one.

I do try to keep the boozing to once a week. Sometimes more if i'm not dieting. last bulk i was going out like 2-3 nights a week every week for like 7 weeks lol. Great fun, but i got fat.

Speaking of which, the house warming is soon, but we're meeting up at the corner house to do some pub-warming before we set off.

So...hasta la vista.


Posted by: Robboe

No cardio today.

It's nearly 1:30pm, i've been up for a few hours and i've yet to eat.

I'm in a good mood though. I had a shower and stood infront of the mirror afterwards and had a proper look at myself.

I gotta admit, i'm probably the leanest i've been since i was a skinny little whipper snapper of about 6 years old (i've been hella fat for a huge portion of my life, hence, why i got into lifting).

From what i can see, my areas with most fat, as expected, are my lower ab region, just under my pectorals (nipple area, kinda) and lower back/glutes/hamstrings area.

Of course i'm holding bits of fat everywhere, but these have the most density of deposits. I wish this fucking Yohimbine HCL would get here. I've exchanged a few emails with Mike (1fast400) and we think it's actually been locked up. I've no idea why though, cause i don't think it's illegal over here. It's damn annoying.

If i was to stop cutting right now, i'd be pleased with how i've done. 14-15 weeks have flew by and i've stuck by the diets well. No full on cheat day, although i've managed to still enjoy my food. I'm not getting ready for a contest so i see no point in trying to get down that far. It's just a stress for my body that i don't need, and i'd prolly end up sacrificing muscle needless in the attempt. I'm quite excited about the next few weeks though.

The cardio will start back up this monday, i've promised myself. I've had a good break from it and let my body sort itself out. I also do legs tomorrow morning which i'm quite looking forward to.

Last night i started my carbs at about 4:30pm, having a small amount of dextrose with whey, and some creatine and CLA. Then sneaked a dream ice cream bar and had about 2 bowls of museli and 3 weetabix. T'was nice. I'm actually debating in my head the point of carbing up on 'clean' carbs when food i like (ie cereals) seem to do just a good a job. It's not like i'm basing my entire diet around them, just filling myself with them bi-weekly and going to bed. It's not like they're gonna spur on any cravings, since i'm asleep by the time the insulin levels are falling and the ghrelin and NPY levels are rising. And i am one of the train beliving that a calorie is just a calorie (although they cause different effects, this could be a good concept for a debate or article --- just thinking on my feet [or seat] here), so i'm still undecided right now. Of course, there's only 5-6 weeks of dieting left for me, so i'm thinking it's not gonna matter much in the long run anyway. I'll be finished dieting by the time i've made my mind up lol.

Last night i also manged to have a takeaway too. Bag of chips and a slice of pizza. It really pisses me off. I know for a fine fact that the chances of anything eaten while under the influence has more potential to be stored as fat (since the body views alcohol as a toxin it must get rid of, thus, puts all other metabolism aside [ie stores it for later] and focuses on ridding the body of this toxin) and yet when i'm pissed i just think "fuck it" and eat anyway. Grr! lol.

Drank a shit load last night too. Someone just had to get the shot glasses out...

~~Many drinking games followed~~

My mate also has a pull up bar in his doorway, so we were being stupid with that. Twice i managed to bang my elbow off the chain's-sticky-outy-bit-of-metal and give myself a dead arm and hit my funny bone. It's still hurting today actually.

Funny story: some blonde bint friend of my mates was there. She was off her tits with the drink and getting more from the dial-a-drink service (they deliver alcofrol to anywhere at anytime - for a slightly higher price, naturally) and she'd bumped into me so many time that night. So as she walked past with her 20 squid bottle of vodka, i tripped her. Not with intent though, but fortunately, she fell straight into a walk, hit her head and smashed her vodka all over. So fitting. I was well chuffed lol. Daft cow.

I think i'm gonna try and eat now. I popped an ECA for fun earlier, to see how it would effect me. I feel kinda full of energy and yet totally fucked lol. This is paradoxical. Or something...

I'm listening to 'relation of command' by at the drive-in as i write this, and i promise it's totally tits. If you have kazaa, DL some of the music. Fucking genius. Especially 'quarantined'. If i ever compete, i wanna pose to that track.

Ok, i'm done droning on.

Wow, that's a lot of writing!


Posted by: Yanick

Quote:
And i am one of the train beliving that a calorie is just a calorie (although they cause different effects, this could be a good concept for a debate or article --- just thinking on my feet [or seat] here)
I have to definitely agree with you on this one TCD. Although low carb diets have their benefit in the fact that you control appetite much better when on them.

I'm also of the belief that insulin resistance changes all the rules. So, in terms of insulin resistance, if you are fine, then the old energy balance is all you really need to worry about.

I'm still researching this though, and i'm really not decided on this issue...


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by Yanick


I have to definitely agree with you on this one TCD. Although low carb diets have their benefit in the fact that you control appetite much better when on them.

I'm also of the belief that insulin resistance changes all the rules. So, in terms of insulin resistance, if you are fine, then the old energy balance is all you really need to worry about.

I'm still researching this though, and i'm really not decided on this issue...
I forgot about this journal thread lol. Glad you reminded me. I did legs yesterday morning and i'm doing some cardio soon, so i'll update with comments and results from both of them later.

Protein and fat both cause more favourable effects on a gut hormone called CCK. It's an acronym for 'cholestokynin' but i can't spell it properly right now, i don't think. Anyway, CCK basically tells your brain 'that's enough for now'. It's also on a delay from belly to head, so you can cram in a shit load of food (think christmas day or thanks giving in any american's case where you binge) in a short space of time before you realise your stomach is distended further than your toes and you're in pain lol.

Carbs don't have this effect that protein and fat do, so eating meals of protein and fat keep hunger blunted for longer. If you include fibre you also slow gastric emptying (ie the food stays in your stomach longer) and so ghrelin levels don't rise as soon between meals and so hunger is not initiated. And since ghrelin ain't rising, either is neuropeptide Y (NPY) since ghrelin drives this chemical [NPY] and it causes cravings, mostly for carbs. Y'know those sugar cravings you get? Well, long term dieting cravings are caused by leptin, but those nagging little cravings you get for chocolate or ice cream between meals comes from NPY. Leptin increases reduce NPY, which is one reason why refeeds can be so beneficial. Not to mention every other beneficial reason for keeping leptin elevated while dieting.

Insulin resistance can be a significant factor, but you can also think of it being almost beneficial. Since a more insulin resistant muscle or tissue cell means there's more chance of the carbohydrates spilling over into fat cell metabolism and either boosting leptin or keeping leptin elevated. Providing calories are in deficit this could still work.

Of course it's a slightly different kettle of fish, as is anything that isn't normal, such as diabetics or the obese.


Posted by: w8lifter

Haven't read this but DP wanted me to post it for you

Hungry? It May be Your Hormones Talking


Posted by: Yanick

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
Hungry? It May be Your Hormones Talking
Ghrelin's a bitch, but Mercola is the man.


Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Protein and fat both cause more favourable effects on a gut hormone called CCK. It's an acronym for 'cholestokynin' but i can't spell it properly right now, i don't think. Anyway, CCK basically tells your brain 'that's enough for now'. It's also on a delay from belly to head, so you can cram in a shit load of food (think christmas day or thanks giving in any american's case where you binge) in a short space of time before you realise your stomach is distended further than your toes and you're in pain lol.
So thats what it's called! I remembered reading and seeing on TV reports that obese people seem to have be "slow" at sending the fullness signal to their brain and thereby eat a lot more. So i'm guessing somehow obese people don't produce the CCK fast enough or something...doesn't mean to much to me, lol.

Quote:
Carbs don't have this effect that protein and fat do, so eating meals of protein and fat keep hunger blunted for longer. If you include fibre you also slow gastric emptying (ie the food stays in your stomach longer) and so ghrelin levels don't rise as soon between meals and so hunger is not initiated. And since ghrelin ain't rising, either is neuropeptide Y (NPY) since ghrelin drives this chemical [NPY] and it causes cravings, mostly for carbs. Y'know those sugar cravings you get? Well, long term dieting cravings are caused by leptin, but those nagging little cravings you get for chocolate or ice cream between meals comes from NPY. Leptin increases reduce NPY, which is one reason why refeeds can be so beneficial. Not to mention every other beneficial reason for keeping leptin elevated while dieting.
Man 1 year ago i knew about the post-prandial production of insuline and thought i was the shit, lol. It just shows you that no matter how much you think you know, you still don't know that half of it.

Quote:
Insulin resistance can be a significant factor, but you can also think of it being almost beneficial. Since a more insulin resistant muscle or tissue cell means there's more chance of the carbohydrates spilling over into fat cell metabolism and either boosting leptin or keeping leptin elevated. Providing calories are in deficit this could still work.
I started googling MFW and looking for old posts of Lyle's and came across some interesting ideas of his. Lyle stated that insulin resistance essentially partitions calories. Meaning that it tells the calories where to go. An insulin resistant adipocyte is actually beneficial, it means that it is trying to NOT get any bigger. Also a more insulin resistant adipocyte means that the cals go to the muscle cells creating a more anabolic environment. He was the one who introduced me to this idea of just get enough protein and EFA's and you can pretty much anything you want and lose weight provided you keep a calorie deficit. It is a lot harder to prevent over-eating if you start eating bread and shit because of the wild swings of blood sugar, so he was only saying that in a theoretical way. He still advocates CKD's and LC diets because of the appetite control they offer. I dunno just some stuff i've been reading, it seems really interesting.

Quote:
Of course it's a slightly different kettle of fish, as is anything that isn't normal, such as diabetics or the obese.
So very true.

On a side note, i remembered reading somewhere that you were reading LOTR. How'd you like it? IMO, its a great book, but a bit childish, if you want a more mature book (mature in terms of it talks about the dirty side of things, rape, disease, murder, dirty words, for some reason i get the idea that you like stuff like that ) try reading the saga "A Song of Fire and Ice" (or is it ice and fire?) by George R.R. Martin, its a bit more mature but the series has not been finished (only 3 of 6 books are out).


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
Haven't read this but DP wanted me to post it for you

Hungry? It May be Your Hormones Talking

Yeah, i read this the other day. I subscribed to that site when DP linked a few things from it. It's quite good.

But don'tcha feel good knowing that i beat him (mercola) to it and told ya all the relevant info that's available on ghrelin already?


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by Yanick
So thats what it's called! I remembered reading and seeing on TV reports that obese people seem to have be "slow" at sending the fullness signal to their brain and thereby eat a lot more. So i'm guessing somehow obese people don't produce the CCK fast enough or something...doesn't mean to much to me, lol.
Well yeah, i guess there's that. But also, actual obese people have defected Ob genes (or is it they don't have an Ob gene? i can't recall) and so whereas leptin would have an effect on us and every other hormone and process it controls, obese people don't get these effects. So their brains never get told "ok, that's enough for now" and always feel like they have room for more. And are always hungry. And so eat. And eat. And eat. And get fat.

Quote:
Man 1 year ago i knew about the post-prandial production of insuline and thought i was the shit, lol. It just shows you that no matter how much you think you know, you still don't know that half of it.
Yeah, and we still don't. I bet there's a shit load of stuff that goes on with fat burning and fat storage that we just don't have a clue about. I'm doubting there's anything more significant than leptin though.

Quote:
I started googling MFW and looking for old posts of Lyle's and came across some interesting ideas of his. Lyle stated that insulin resistance essentially partitions calories. Meaning that it tells the calories where to go. An insulin resistant adipocyte is actually beneficial, it means that it is trying to NOT get any bigger. Also a more insulin resistant adipocyte means that the cals go to the muscle cells creating a more anabolic environment. He was the one who introduced me to this idea of just get enough protein and EFA's and you can pretty much anything you want and lose weight provided you keep a calorie deficit. It is a lot harder to prevent over-eating if you start eating bread and shit because of the wild swings of blood sugar, so he was only saying that in a theoretical way. He still advocates CKD's and LC diets because of the appetite control they offer. I dunno just some stuff i've been reading, it seems really interesting.
Yeah, you can lose fat on a higher carb diet providing calories are in check. But in real world you tend to eat more cause of cravings.

It's funny all these things should be coming up now, cause i'm writing a lot about them in a future article for WBB right now.

Quote:
On a side note, i remembered reading somewhere that you were reading LOTR. How'd you like it? IMO, its a great book, but a bit childish, if you want a more mature book (mature in terms of it talks about the dirty side of things, rape, disease, murder, dirty words, for some reason i get the idea that you like stuff like that ) try reading the saga "A Song of Fire and Ice" (or is it ice and fire?) by George R.R. Martin, its a bit more mature but the series has not been finished (only 3 of 6 books are out).
LOTR is fan-fuckin-tastic.

I think it's great, childish or not. I love shit like that and can't wait for the next film in Decemeber. (I currently have the promotional poster as my PC wallpaper, i'm that sad lol).

I do try and read stuff, but more often than not, if it's something fictional where i don't actually learn anything, i tend to lose interest pretty damn quick.


Posted by: Robboe

Ok, yesterday i did legs.

Squats: 160k - 4 / 4 (one rep progression)
140k - 6

SLDLs: 172.5k - 4 (Eq PR) / 3

Hacks: 75k - 5 (new PR) / 4
50k - 12

Sorry, but i can't be bothered to convert to lbs. If you really wanna know, multiply by 2.2

Today i ate at 1:30pm, got home from work at around 4pm (ish), and took 200mg caf and 2g L-Tyrosine. two cups of green tea later at 6:15pm i was cardioing away.

3 minute warm up.

5 minute progressive run.

2.5 minute walk.

3.5 minute run.

3 minute walk.

2 minute run.

rest.

30 minutes on the stepper.

As usual i was dying. It's been 2 weeks since my last cardio session and it's amazing how much i've lost fitness wise.

Anyhoo, push tomorrow.


Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy



Yeah, i read this the other day. I subscribed to that site when DP linked a few things from it. It's quite good.

But don'tcha feel good knowing that I beat him (mercola) to it and told ya all the relevant info that's available on ghrelin already?

Yeah, I feel good bringing it up in the first place to make you look so good! LOL

(though you talked with Lyle first)


DP


Posted by: w8lifter

Are we going to get updated pics of the new Lean Chicken Baby?


Posted by: Robboe

I got no torso pics, but i got some snaps from the wedding in london from the other weekend, but they're too big too attach.

I'll send you them via MSN if you want though.


Posted by: w8lifter

Just email them to me

...do you want me to shrink 'em for you?


Posted by: Robboe

No, they're annoying to wait to attach. I've done it twice already and it pissed me off to no end.


Posted by: Robboe

Qucik update.

Still no sign of YHCL. I told the guy i'm getting it off and so he's gonna send it again, so i told him i'm cover shipping prices. It's the least i can do if he's going on that stretch for me.

I training chest delts and tris last night. The gym was heaving so it was a kinda do-what-is-free workout. Used DB's for flat bench for the first time in a long while and got 6 reps with the 45k DB's. Stopping short of failure by like...one, haha. Ah well. Not bad for a first attempt back in a while.

Had a larger than usual carb load last night too. I've had terrible gas all day today from it. Although i managed to persuade the folk at work that it must be problems with the air vents, or something in the pipes, lol.

On a side note, after the fourth request of asking, i'm now a WBB diet mod.


Posted by: Yanick

Congrats TCD. I'm gonna start posting over there again, seeing as my various daily forums aren't active enough for me. Plus it was the first forum i signed on to...


Posted by: Robboe

Same username?


Posted by: Yanick

yep


Posted by: Robboe

I see you.

ANyway, great back workout today. I progressed (and set new PR's) for weighted wide grip chins, BB rows AND kneeling DB shrugs. I was well impressed.

I trained later than usual too, cause i was helping my mam clean the bathroom ceiling (long story). I also managed to get bleach on my top and dye the colour out of it in places. I was livid.

I recently found some caps of dymetadrine that cloughie sentme last year cause they gave hima headache. I took 2 before training. I dunno if it was these, or my extened carb up on tuesday, or a combination of both. Either way, i wasn't complaining.

In fact, i had such a hidden energy, i did a proper bicep workout for the first time in absolutely months. I think i did about 4 sets altogether. It was well scary.

I think i'll do some cardio tomorrow after work.


Posted by: Robboe

Last night i did cardio. I actually went to the 'cardio gym' along the road, only to find out that in twenty minutes it was becoming women only, so they wouldn't let me in, bastards. I got a lift down to my weights gym instead and did cardio there.

I also did some this morning.

With the wedding, my weight fluctuations have been kerazee. Two weeks ago i was 14st 4.5lbs, the week after i was 14st 8lbs (holding from the wedding wekend) and today i am 14st 4lbs. So i'm happy. Albeit depleted.

I went to see The Bourne Identity last night too. Great film, but the way he kills his last bad guy in the end maybe ruined it a bit.

I'm off to the Hyena Cafe tonight with a shit-load of people. It's a comedy store, basically. And it's my sister's birthday, so we decided to do something different.

I'm looking forward to it.

No doubt the alcohol will be rubbing vigourously through the strip.


Posted by: lina

Hey TCD,

How is the diet going?

No updates?




Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by lina
Hey TCD,

How is the diet going?

No updates?

Hey Lina, i've actually come online early today primarily to update this bad boy for y'all cause there's an afternoon crunch derby between the toon and sunderland in a bit.

I haven't had as much time, nor motivation it seems, to update this just recently. I've been typing up some stuff for a future collection of articles. I may be doing writing for this site in the future if i (or anyone else) can think of (a) decent title(s) or if Prince still wants me to. Only time will tell.

This week's workouts have been good. I seem to be hovering around strength at the moment. Most would call it a plateau, but with almost 17 weeks dieting done, i call it expected. I still add strength on some lifts every other or every third week so it's all good. My strength has increased these 16+ weeks overall so in general i'm happy with results.

I should be getting my Yohimbine HCL tomorrow. I re-organised things with the supplier and he's sending it again free of charge, providing i pay the shipping, which, at $10 ain't no skin off my nose, especially if he's sending the same batch for nothing.

ANyway, my main point in this update, is to let you all know that i am now officially a believer.

Oh yes.

I've had my foot in the door in the churd of leptin, but now i am truely a choir member.

Not this week gone, but the one before, i lifted thrice during the week and performed my cardio thrice during the week. My carb loads were moderate with some sneaked in treats. I dropped 0.5lbs.

This week gone, i've took a break from cardio (not something planned, but every time i've usually went to do cardio i've been a mixture of lazy, sore and tired so never quite got to the gym) and my carb loads have been quite huge and closer to 'refeeds' in their extremety. I prolly got down around 400-500g carbs in total. Mostly from cereals, chocolate (Nestle Double cream, look out for them kiddies. Good stuff ), ice cream (vanilla vienetta ) toast with wedneslydale cheese ( ) and generally anything else that's high in carbs (sugary or not) and low(ish) in fat. Now, when i say i eat these, i'm talking 50-100g dextrose and malto to start, 300-500g bars of choclate, entire vienttas, around 4 slices of toast, several bowls of cereal. NOT a small chocolate bar or a few piece, or one slice of vientta, toast and small bowl of cereal. I really mean a shit load of food.

And this is only within the space of about 3 hours (i have an appetite and stomach grand enough for large volumes of grub). Although last saturday for my sister's birthday it was spaced over 5-6pm till 4am (lmao now i read that properly) and i included beer in that one. And lots of caterpillar chocolate cake.

Now, i'm not advocating you go out and eat tons of shit food like me or advertising such a method, but let me tell you this:

week 15-16: cardio thrice weekly, lifting thrice weekly, moderate carb loads - weight dropped = 0.5lbs
week 16-17: NO cardio, lifting thrice weekly, huge carb loads - weight dropped = 1lb.

Now, a few clarifications.

I will try and do cardio next week but i'll probably keep my bi-weekly carb loads similar to how i have this week. I'll tell you all how it goes.

Also, i more than anyone, knows there IS a fucking huge difference between "weight loss" and "fat loss". And i ain't dumb and can tell when i've lost fat or "weight" (ie a combination of fat and muscle [and/or water/glycogen]).

Now, i'm still losing fat all over - quads, arms, lower back (i've noticed this week i have quite twatty love handles round the back. i think during my last bulk when i put on too much fat, my body deposited most body fat around this region, the bastard); glutes and of course lower chest/nipple region and lower abs. In fact, one real disheartening thing about my abdominal region is that instead of coming off in an even layer, it's mostly coming off the 'upper' region first and thus, leaving the lower region thicker and making it look like i have a really pudgey little belly. This is becoming quite annoying and on several occasions i've thought i'd diet longer than 20 weeks in a bid to rid myself of this. But then other occasions i realise it's probably a dumb idea cause to get rid of that i'll have to get well below my setpoint, no doubt, which will cause me more problems than benefits.

So, because i'm still losing it all over, it's hard to notice a 1lb loss on my abs alone but i have noticed a shred more definiton in my right quad this week (lol, don't ask. I'm more defined on the right hand side of my body than the left. An annoying trait, but a genetic one no doubt Grr! lol). But one thing i can tell you, is that there has been no real noticeable muscle loss this week. At all in fact (i think noticing 1lb or 0.5lb muscle loss over seven days to be quite impossible, especially with a cyclical low carb diet where depletion plays such a significant rle in how muscular or bloated you can look).

So, why have i told you all this?

Well, i truely believe it's cause of leptin. Now, that is of course a belief at this point in time, and my thoughts and beliefs make very little difference in the grand scheme of things. If anyone ever tells you to do something because they "believe it to be true" then flame the fuck out of them. Here's some of the best replies i have EVER seen in regards to people's "beliefs":

"I believe in Aliens. Doesn't mean it's true"

"i believe black rocks keep away white tigers. I have no scientific evidence for this, but i always carry black rocks and i've yet to see a white tiger. I have 22 years of empirical evidence to prove this."

I hope you enjoyed that. Moving on...

I am leading myself to believe that with dieting, and calorie deficit, my leptin is falling. One huge refeed and here's where my train of thought twists a bit. Firstly, i could say that the huge refeed boosts leptin and makes the body believe that i'm no longer dying, there's no need for starvation mode and so it's time to repair and build upon any lost tissues (including muscle) and resynthesis some fat stores inc ase the situations arises again in the future. My first query is whether the body can upregulate itself in such a manner so quickly (ie over the course of one refeed). I'm no totally sure, but i'm doubtful at this time. My second train of thought is that the refeeds prevent it falling. And since i've gone so long with dieting, with these bi-weekly carb ups (now read: refeeds, due to their extremety) the leptin keeps trying to fall to tell the body it's "starving", but i keep bumping it up there (or at least preventing it from falling any further) every third and fourth day. It's like an elevator in a sky scraper. Think of the elevator as leptin. It is trying to go down, but it's like every 3rd and 4th day i jam my foot in the doors, so it's always stuck at the same floor (or at least there abouts the same floor).

Now, i keep the train of thought that i can boost leptin because i seem to be getting the nutrient partitioning effect from leptin (ie muscle retention, fat burning). Despite more days in calorie surplus, the nutrient partitioning effect of this leptin is causing me to lose weight (i say weight since i use the scales as my first gauge, cause i know from past experiences how much my hypothalamus can play tricks on me when i look in the mirror - ie i'm too small and too fat - which i probably am lol) while retaining muscle.

Like i say, i'll keep refeeds the same this week and tell you all how it goes, but i'll add in some cardio to see what, if any difference it makes and inform you of the results.

Hopefully i'll be using YHCL this week too, if i recieve it tomorrow.

Sorry for such a large update, but it's been seven days worth remember.

And Lina, thank you kindly for the reminder


Posted by: Yanick

TCD,

Have you taken any full weeks off from dieting, and just stayed at maintanance or a little above? Lyle advocates 1 week off every 6 weeks, because you will never increase leptin with such small refeeds...


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by Yanick
TCD,

Have you taken any full weeks off from dieting, and just stayed at maintanance or a little above? Lyle advocates 1 week off every 6 weeks, because you will never increase leptin with such small refeeds...

No, not yet.

If i didn't have an ultimate cut off point, then i would. But i'm finished in about another 3-4 weeks so i'm not sure if i see any point in doing so.


Posted by: lina

Hi TCD,

Always enjoyable to read your journal with your fun adventures and your sense of humor (like that Brit wit)... also great nutritional info!

I'm currently on a Beverly diet, dunno if you are familiar with that, but your NHE sounds similar to that.... Carb loads on Mon/Thur nights... low carb (less than 50g), hi protein/mod fat... Is it the same idea? I love your carbloads much better though... my kind of carbloads... chocolate! Did Leslie's thread get you in trouble? LOL! And what da heck is a caterpillar chocolate cake? Like chocolate covered ants but they use caterpillars instead?

Also, what other supplements are you using? If you start using YHCL which I assume is a fat burner, wouldn't that artificially alter/speed up your fat loss results? Well, I guess it doesn't matter since you have been on this diet for 17 weeks with great results already....

OK, lots of questions cause I'm still learning!

Oh yes, have you been taking stats along the way or just going by the mirror?


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by lina
I'm currently on a Beverly diet, dunno if you are familiar with that, but your NHE sounds similar to that.... Carb loads on Mon/Thur nights... low carb (less than 50g), hi protein/mod fat... Is it the same idea?
Yeah, it sounds simialr enough.

Quote:
I love your carbloads much better though... my kind of carbloads... chocolate!
You do not wanna know how much chocolate and sweet stuf i have consumed today. All in the name of research and experimentation, naturally.

Quote:
Did Leslie's thread get you in trouble? LOL! And what da heck is a caterpillar chocolate cake? Like chocolate covered ants but they use caterpillars instead?
What thread was that?

Caterpillar chocolate cake = chocolate cake in the same of a caterpillar

Quote:
Also, what other supplements are you using? If you start using YHCL which I assume is a fat burner, wouldn't that artificially alter/speed up your fat loss results? Well, I guess it doesn't matter since you have been on this diet for 17 weeks with great results already....
Multi vit/mineral.
extra vit C, E
extra calcium and zinc
EAS simply whey for post w/o
CLA before carb loads/refeeds (not really that important)
200mg caf tabs/L-tyrosine before cardio if i do it.
And that's about it really. I need some more ephedrine, which, when it comes, i'll use to keep normal when i try the usnic acid i have.

Let me just state for the record, i am in no way promoting or advertising the use of said substance.

Alrighty.

Quote:
OK, lots of questions cause I'm still learning!

Oh yes, have you been taking stats along the way or just going by the mirror?
I took measurements at the end of my last bulk, and i imagine i'll take some more at the end of this cut.

I weigh myself every week too. here's how my eight has changed since dieting:

start weight, 220lbs

weigh in 1: 217.5
2: 213.5
3: 211.5
4: 211
5: 208.5
6: 207
7: 206.5
8: 206
9: 205.5
10: 207.5 (weighed in on a sunday after friday night drinking. still holding from that night)
11: 204
12: 202
13: 201
14: 200.5
15: 204.5 (the week after the weekend binge during the wedding down London)
16: 200
17: 199

And that is what i weighed in at this morning. As you can see it's been a nice steady drop.

I also look in the mirror...a lot. Hell, i'm vain, i don't care, i'll admit it. But only for myself. I don't walk around out side with shirts with no sleeves or none of that shit.


Posted by: lina

Awesome job and great progress!!!

Thanks for the updates!

Can't wait to see pics then in 3-4 weeks!


Posted by: cytrix

Maybe a refeed is what I need - your observations are very interesting. I've been doing the NHE now for almost four weeks (Tuesday will be day 28), and I really start to crave more carbs, could this be the fallen leptin levels? I also read your article about the adrenal burnout, and now I'm wondering if maybe the caffeine and yohimbe i've been taken are the reason for my cravings, and not the leptin?


Posted by: kuso

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy


I should be getting my Yohimbine HCL tomorrow. I re-organised things with the supplier and he's sending it again free of charge, providing i pay the shipping, which, at $10 ain't no skin off my nose, especially if he's sending the same batch for nothing.
TCD...is this from 1fast400? What are his shipping charges normally like? And did it turn up?


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by cytrix
Maybe a refeed is what I need - your observations are very interesting. I've been doing the NHE now for almost four weeks (Tuesday will be day 28), and I really start to crave more carbs, could this be the fallen leptin levels? I also read your article about the adrenal burnout, and now I'm wondering if maybe the caffeine and yohimbe i've been taken are the reason for my cravings, and not the leptin?
Leptin falls and brings down most with it.

There's a hormone called neuropeptide Y (NPY) which makes you crave the shit outta food, mainly carbs. Hence, sugar cravings.

NPY is like the anti-leptin.

When leptin drops, NPY rises.

You can put up wth the cravings providing fat loss is still coming along nicely. If fat loss has stalled or is really slow, do a refeed and see how it goes.

Self experimentation is the best form of feedback you can get.

By the way, you may discover that the adrenal burnout thread was DP's, not mine.


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by kuso


TCD...is this from 1fast400? What are his shipping charges normally like? And did it turn up?
Yeah, Mike is sorting me out.

Hasn't came today yet, no.

I have a priority mail number, so if it doesn't show by say, wednesday, i can phone royal mail and try and track where it is.

Shipping is usually about 9-10$ i think.

Not sure, but i imagine this would increase the heavier the package. But like i said, i'm not sure.


Posted by: kuso

Thanks, and good luck with the package!

It seems very cheap there, I might have to take a closer look


Posted by: Robboe

I'm one happy camper.

My YHCL finally came today. Hooray!

I'm starting off slowly, so i've had about 10mg altogether today. 2.5mg caps, so i've spaced out 4. Can't say i'm feeling any jitteriness. Depending on how the remainder of the day goes i may or may not go to 6 caps tomorrow. I may try and squeeze some GPP and then some running tomorrow afternoon after Uni.

Speaking of which, i've been at twice today. Yes, that's twice. I finished at noon and got home to eat, only for my dickhead mate to phone me up to come back! He's doing a PT degree course at my University and hasn't got a clue where he was going or what he had to do. I had to wait over an hour in a queue with him so he could get sorted with his library card. God that was annoying. Reminded me of when i first had to queue for mine, only the card-making machine was fucked so i had to wait 3.5 hours. Bastards.

I go train in a bit. Very soon in fact. I'll maybe update later with how it goes.

Since it's a tuesday, i'd usually refeed/carb load tonight, but not today. Oh no. I'm not doing a proper refeed/carb up till next week. It's said mate's birthday on thursday, so we're off down to tall trees on friday night (it's Europe's second biggest nightclub i do believe). Anyway, it's down in Yarm just outside of middlesborough so we gotta get a boozy-bus down there. We've doe it before and it's fun Of course it broke down on the way last time, so that wasn't. I'll prolly have some spaggettii or oats before i go out that night.

Then on saturday, for the same birthday do (we tend to do things over the entire weekend for birthday's, me and my friends) we're hitting a new club that's just recently opened in town. I doubt i'll follow diet to the letter that day, but we'll just wait and see what happens.

Sunday will be back on though. I may not do a proper refeed till the following saturday. Dunno yet.


Posted by: Robboe

Just quick, it's 11:30pm here and i'm up at 7:30am tomorrow.

Did chest, side laterals and tris (one set of CGBP, and i only got 3 reps lol). But i care not, cause i progressed on weighted dips for the first time in about four weeks. I was well chuffed. Made me smile for a wee long while after.

Here's a quick workout summary:

chest: 6 sets
shoulders: 2 sets of side laterals
triceps: 1 set of CGBP for three reps.

Done.

I'd usually have steak tonight before bed, but my steak has went rank really quick this week. I'm quite pished off, but what can ya do

I go shopping for supplies tomorrow. I'll try and sneak some GPP in there somewhere too.

Alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllllrighty then (Ace Ventura), time for some shut eye.

Nighty night, you raving homosexuals.


Posted by: lina

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Just quick, it's 11:30pm here and i'm up at 7:30am tomorrow.


Nighty night, you raving homosexuals.
Are you trying to tell us something?!!!!

Feel anything yet from Yohimbe?

Congrats on your weighted dips.

Have fun this weekend sounds like a blast!


Posted by: Robboe

Heart beats, baby. Lot of them.

Well, not really that bad actually. I'm still on moderate dosing for now. Building myself up for higher doses eventually.

I'll try and find the wesbite fo the club i'm going to on friday. Lemme go look for it.

And by the way, i may have changed my mind. I may not take in any carbs before going out on friday. I may just stick with my pro+fat meals and then just go out drinking. A few reasons for this are floating round in my head, but they're just theoretical and i have no way of checking or proving them right now, so i'll refrain from posting them.

I expect my next "proper" carb load or refeed will not be till next tuesday.


Posted by: lina

Why? because you plan to drink case-loads of beer so that is enuf damage to hinder more fat loss?


Posted by: Robboe

Well yes, but that wasn't my original theory.


Posted by: Robboe

My cravings and appetite are through the roof so i'm a bit pissy.

Couple that with too many dicks dropping out of the tall trees trip tonight so we've had to cancel it and i'm now quite livid.

We're still going out, but i was looking forward to going down.

Back workout last night was great. My weight chins are really coming along. I equalled a personal best and managed it with nice slow and controlled reps with a full ROM on all of them. No half reps near the end or anything. I was pleased.

I'm not going out tomorrow anymore, cause the cost of tonight will now be higher. I'll use tomorrow for a carb up/refeed cause boy, i need it.


Posted by: Robboe

God, i got in at 4am this morning and went to bed in a drunken state.

For some unreal reason, that i have yet to decipher, i got back up at 8-fucking-30am wide awake.

My head is pounding.

Ugh...

This is an advertisement for you all to avoid alcohol. Or at least avoid the copious amounts of the substance i consume.

Ugh...

I'm using today as a refeed day. God knows, i need it.

Great night though. Went to a new club in town called "Blue Bambu".

Good fun.


Posted by: Yanick

TCD, the same exact thing happened to me on sunday. I got in at 5am and woke up at 9am. Care to do a little research on this, lol?

P.S.
Copious amounts of alcohol make any night, a fun night!


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by Yanick
TCD, the same exact thing happened to me on sunday. I got in at 5am and woke up at 9am. Care to do a little research on this, lol?
Not really, but i imagine the fact that my mouth was dry as hell and i was dehydrated to fuck was partly to blame.

Quote:
P.S.
Copious amounts of alcohol make any night, a fun night!

True, but it does me no good the next day.


Posted by: Yanick

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
True, but it does me no good the next day.
That is where we differ my friend. After a night of heavy drinking, like this past sunday morning, i wake up in great condition. My thoery is that, i'm depleted, then with the alcohol acting like a diuretic and all the carbs that i eat, i'm ready for a contest! But with about 9% extra fat, lol.


Posted by: Robboe

I wasn't refering to how i look. Just how i feel.

Trained chest earlier. Was a good session, set another PR on weighted dips. Woo!

I've been using usnic acid for 3 days almost now. Feeling hot, but no real lethargy yet.

Went clubbing last night too. Didn't drink, just danced. Was a good larf. Met up with one of my best mates who now lives in Jock-land with his girlfriend - he was down for a week. He's went back today though. I was glad to see him. He is, without a doubt, the funniest person i know and have ever had the pleasure of knowing.

I carb up later.


Posted by: Robboe

I haven't forgotten about this thing.

I actually finish 'cutting' in about two weeks.

NHE has proved a success as far as my original goals were concerned - simply reduce bf. Abs would be nice, but they'll come in time.

It's soon gonna be time for a progressive growth with progressive leanness package. Oh yes...


Posted by: Robboe

You'll have to excuse me. I selfishly left my 'bitch tits' out of that photo, sorry.

I'll try and get them back for any future photos, however.


Posted by: Twin Peak

Yeah, I noticed that!

Leaned out nicely.

TCD, how long have you been training?


Posted by: Robboe

Not long.

3 years total, with the first year and a half being a total waste (piss-poor training, crappy-ass diet etc..)

And since July 10th, 2001; i've spent 51 weeks (today marking the 51st) in calorie deficit or performing some sort of diet.

32 weeks cutting from July 10th 2001 to whenever, then a 15 week bulk (added far too much fat) and now this 19 weeks done so far.

After a couple more weeks when i go back to lean gain (i.e. 0.5lbs a week) i don't plan on cutting again until after next summer, hopefully.

Hopefully.

Hopefully.

But then again, i am repulsed with bodyfat, since coming from a fat bastard that i was before i started lifting. Knowing me i'll be cutting again in 2 fookin' weeks.

Hopefully not.

Hopefully.


Posted by: Robboe

My God, i am white.

BTW, call me Rob.


Posted by: Twin Peak

Sure Rob,

So I am curious about your background. You obviously have a wealth of information and learned tons within this short time frame. How/where did/does that come from? What is your professional career?

I too, come from a fat bastard background...and yes....you are white!


Posted by: Robboe

I'm a professional bum.

Or professional irritant, depending upon who you are. (others on here may testify to that).

Or a University student, more precisely. (computing for business before you ask, basically programming and software development oriented more towards the project management side of things).

Have i mentioned how much i hate JAVA?

All i've learned has come from what i've read, experienced or heard of (depending on it's relative level of bull-shittery, and how much it checks out when i research it myself).

I am obsessed with muscular hypertrophy, but more so with fat cell metabolism and how hormones interact with these procedures.

I am basically a sad loser.


Posted by: Twin Peak

Well, what particularly intrigues me is the level of detail and scientific backup you track down and understand.

I have been in the training for years, consider myself relatively knowledgable on nutrition and especially training, and somewhat on suppliments, but no where close to the level of detail you are. One would expect you'd be "in the field" or in medicine, science, etc....very interesting.

So basically you are still a babe....

(Oh and I have seen the prof irritant around....and noticed you have lightened up lately! Maybe its because you have been allowed to drink whilest dieting).


Posted by: Robboe

Quote:
Originally posted by Twin Peak
So basically you are still a babe....


I hope you mean baby, or i've been confused about your gender (or "preference") for quite a while. And your avatar is quite decieving lol.

j/k


Posted by: Twin Peak

Meant "babe" as in "babe in the woods" as in baby, yes.

Gender and preferences are as you presumed.


Posted by: Robboe

Good to hear!

<Big Gay Al Voice>


Suuuuuuuuuuuper!

</Big Gay Al Voice>



Anyhoo, bedtime for Rob.

Take care man.


Posted by: Yanick

Looking good Rob.

I have about the same amount of experience in lifting as you (1.5 years, i'm not counting the BS time). You look bigger though, looks like that bulk did you some good.

Also don't worry about being white, start worrying about that when the summer hits (if it ever does over there )


Posted by: Robboe

Thanks Yan.


Well, it seems after all this time to see my pic no one really gives a shit anymore.


Posted by: kuso

LOL.....we care, and you are looking good....I can`t remember though...was there a before pic on here?


(CLICK HERE here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

The NHE and ONE - cut and bulk


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