The NHE and ONE - cut and bulk [Forum Archive]

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The NHE and ONE - cut and bulk

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Posted by: Twin Peak

What about an electric probe?

So its almost a week on One any insight? Did you see my comments re my back w/o yesterday?

Posted by: Robboe

Ok, to prevent this thread from becoming totally off topic, here's a shy update.

I shifted from 4 to 6 squirts over the weekend. if i did 4 squirts all the time, then i could probably squeeze 2 two week cycles out of one bottle. But since i've moved to 6 (6 squirts would last 15 days per bottle) i'm not sure how much i'll have left for a second cycle. So this time i may just keep going till the bottle runs dry. Which may be about 3 weeks or so. Then i'll take at least 3 weeks off. In fact, it'll be so close to christmas by then that i may just wait until the new year before doing another cycle.

One point of note is that the first few days (thurs-mon) of the 4000kcals made me feel and look like i was physically fatter. Of course, i put a lot down to stomach distention from food, water retention and sodium and all the rest. But the past two days i've looked almost as lean as i was by the end of my last cut. Only with fuller muscles (from the glycogen). My chest also looks notably larger (although it's still small on the whole).

I'll re-weigh myself tomorrow and see how my weight has changed. I'm expecting it to be down from last week's weight actually, since last thursday i weighed in the day after a refeed so i was holding food, water, glycogen and the like. This weeek i won't be retaining as much water or food so i'm expecting to be lighter.

Posted by: Robboe

Originally posted by Twin Peak
What about an electric probe?

So its almost a week on One any insight? Did you see my comments re my back w/o yesterday?

Just made a quick ONE review so far. Nothing amazing yet, but that does remind me that a lot of guys say they don't feel ONE really kicking in until week two. We'll have to wait and see. I've yet to train something again since starting it too, so i reckon that will be the real eye opener. Although my results may be twisted since i am coming off a diet - a low carb one at that, and i've since moved onto more regular carb feedings. But we shall see.

I saw your back comments, yeah. Still amazing progress though. Even if it was just with two exercises.

By the way, re: the electric probe. It sounds good, but what if you broke it off their head(s)? That's gonna be you out of pocket, man. A better idea may be an electric door knocker. With a good few thousand volts passing through it. At least that way you'll never feel inclined to try and hit them with it.

Although i'm still liking my pitch fork idea...

Posted by: Twin Peak

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

I saw your back comments, yeah. Still amazing progress though. Even if it was just with two exercises.

Actually, I progressed on every exercise and every set, except my first set of pullups. My comments was just that the progression COULD be due to other factors. If it continues next week than we will know.

Regarding your "fat then lean" comments, my experience was EXACTLY the same, but my weight has gone up.

Posted by: Robboe

Well i'll not know if my weight has gone down till tomorrow morning, but even if it does i don't care. Last week's weigh in was quite a ridiculous idea by all accounts, i'm not overly sure why i bothered in all truth.

Just the extra calories you're now eating could be helping your progression. But i can tell you that the 1-T won't be doing any harm in this regard, even if the progression isn't attributable soley to it.

And maybe it works better once you get a bit of blood into the muscle group? Sounds like a dumb i dea i realise, but theoretically, 1-T helps with better pumps and you'd expect more fluid in the muscle making the cells bigger would mean you can shift more weight for more reps. A bit like how creatine manages it. So next session make sure you're really warmed up with a slight pump before going into your proper work sets? I dunno how valid that is, but it's an idea.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Interesting thought. Don't get me wrong, I am quite happy with the progress to date. If the progession continued ta this pace (I realize it won't) I'd be unbelievably strong and, presumably, the corresponding muscle would fill out nicely. Basically, I have added 20 pounds to each working set. That's not unheard off from one w/o to the next but continuous over 6 weeks ud ridiculous. Imaging if I gained 120 pounds on all my lifts in 6 weeks?

Posted by: Yanick

damn lucky asses with there 1-test talk, did i ever tell you guys how much i hate you?

j/k of course.

Rob/TP,

what're your plans for post cycle therapy? How long, how much, and what will you be taking?

Posted by: Twin Peak

I am going to do six on and 4 off.

I am going to cut back on volume SIGNIFICANTLY for 2 weeks then do my old volume/frequency for 2 weeks.

Drop cals from 4000 to 3000 then to 2500.

Use 6-Oxo and ECA, and creatine. And pray that I can keep all my gains!

Posted by: kuso

TP.....are you going to load you creatine or just start up how ever many g`s you take during a normal "cycle" of it.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Originally posted by kuso
TP.....are you going to load you creatine or just start up how ever many g`s you take during a normal "cycle" of it.

Sorry to do this in your thread Rob....I will probably load. I know the debates over whether this works or not. Personally, I don't have an opinion on whether its necessary, but I can afford the extra few dollars, so I'll load.

Posted by: Robboe

Here's a quote from an earlier post in this thread:

"1. keeping calories up.
2. Keeping carbs up.
3. Training shy of failure
4. keeping lifting sessions below 40 minutes in duration.
5. Splitting EC into 6 smaller doses throughout the day (12.5mg E, 100mg C)
6. Chew nicotine gum (about 12mg, thrice daily in 4mg pieces).

The latter is a bit extreme for some people, but there's a lot of good reasons why it's a good supplement to use, whether cutting or bulking. I've been using it for cutting the past two weeks for various reasons. It's not too bad in all honesty."

The training ethic will be implemented for the week after the cycle ends and the EC/nicotine/calories/carbs will be for two weeks.

Or if my cycle lasts longer, i may opt for training protocol to stem for 2 weeks and the EC/nic/cals/carbs to last 3 or 4. Taking at least weekends off from nicotine, or doing a 2-3 on, 2 off approach.

Posted by: kuso

Cool....yeah, sorry TCD

Posted by: Robboe

Originally posted by Twin Peak
I am going to do six on and 4 off.

I am going to cut back on volume SIGNIFICANTLY for 2 weeks then do my old volume/frequency for 2 weeks.

Drop cals from 4000 to 3000 then to 2500.

Use 6-Oxo and ECA, and creatine. And pray that I can keep all my gains!

Dude, you really should do 'off', whatever you do 'on'. So 6 on, 6 weeks off.

And i hope you're not going to drop calories down to 3000 straight away. Lest ye not forget, after another 5 weeks you're probably gonna be bordering on the 220 mark, and 3000kcals ain't gonna aid you in maintaining your gains. I'd say do 3500kcals for a few weeks after the diet (depending on your size and weight of course - if you're heavier then eat more) before considering dropping calories even further. At the minute you're 214 eating 4000kcals or so, which is about 18kcals per lb. If your weight goes up more, you're gonna have to bump calories up a bit in correspondance. Try and keep the cals in the 18-20 per lb region.

re: loading. Do it. There's nothing wrong with loading, providing it's not the loading strategy advocated by the supplement companies. About 2-3 days of 5g twice to thrice daily works fine. No need for the 20g a day for 5 days nonsense.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Maybe I'll keep cals at 3500 for two weeks than go down to 3000. We shall see. You know about my fat phobia.

I saw somewhere (1fast400 I think) that 6 on 4 off was ok). That works well because I could start a second cycle after the new year. You feel strongly about this?

Usually I TAKE 10g per day and load with 20, you think thats too much? What brand so you use?

Posted by: ~LP~

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank ~LP~ for that delightful PM they have sent me. It truely brought a tear to my eye.

Cool, I was hoping you'd like it.

Good thread Robboe...when i get a chance I'll read it from start to finish. I never really read much info on NHE in the past, and also the info on 1-Test should be cool to read as well. Who knows...maybe one day when I bulk I'll give it a try.

I'm not sure if this has been stated already or not, but I just wondering, if you have a reliable source for the illegal variation, why pay more for the legal one, of course assuming you are not too fearful of being caught? I am guessing that the reason 1-Test is sold legally is because of the transport system. I guess the stigman of injecting will forever be attributed to "controlled" substances, yet when they bring out a variation with a different transport, it's suddenly "ok". That's my initial take...but haven't done much reading on it yet.

Posted by: Robboe

Strongly?

Hmmm...maybe. If you want to ensure all of your gains are kept then yeah, i'd really advise it. After any more than about 2 weeks of the 1-T and your HPTA will be shutting down, so you really need time to allow it to regenerate afterwards.

6 on, 4 off may be ok, but if it was me i'd still take the same amount of time off as on.

My creatine is just plain monohydrate.

I don't load, although i really should if i want to see results start quicker (strength wise). But if i do load i do it in 5g doses (i've read somewhere about too much creatine at once, but it's probably BS, and i read it a while ago so i've no idea where it was from) thrice daily (so morning, evening, night) and i do it for 2-3 days. Once you're at saturation point there's little need to keep loading. And since i eat red meat quite regularly i get creatine from that too.

The 20g a day for 5 days thing really is a concept stretched by supp companies to make you go through your supply quicker so you'll be buying sooner.

But yeah, i don't take creatine every day, only after training, so i take about 10g at a time with my dex/whey shake.

The brand is bodyfortress, and i use it cause i can get it extremely cheap (1kg for like 20 squids). I've had the same tub for over a year now. I have no idea of the shelf life for the stuff though.

Posted by: Robboe

Originally posted by ~LP~

Cool, I was hoping you'd like it.

Hey Pete, yeah some one beat you to the punch. I've already explained, i'm not mentally prepared to stick myself yet, so TD Apps are the next best thing.

But you're very correct on the rest. Especially that part when you said that you are a complete tosspot.

Posted by: Yanick

Rob,

no 6-oxo or anything of that sort? Just cals/carbs etc etc? Your doing 2 week cycles?

Posted by: Robboe

Yan:

No, yes, yes.

Although the latter may be extended slightly (by maybe a week or so) just to finish the bottle, if that is the case, since a one week cycle sounds pointless.

Posted by: kuso

TCD....any reason you aren`t going with the general 6-oxo ??

Posted by: Robboe

Yes.

It's not mandatory.

I should be able to achieve similar results without it. And since my cycles aren't gonna be that long i don't feel it's totally warranted.

I also fogot to mention i'll be bumping up my zinc intake post cycle too.

Posted by: kuso

I guess you are right with the two week cycles........will anything at all change if you do decide to go through to the full three weeks?

Posted by: Twin Peak

Rob, what does the zinc do?

Posted by: Robboe

Doubt it Kuso. I'll only invest in 6-OXO if i do a 4-6 week cycle.

The way it's shaping up since i upped the squirts, it'll probably alst me about 2.5 weeks, so that's ok.

On a side note, i forgot to mention about application that some may find useful. I used to apply all 4 squirts onto my chest and upper ab region, but it didn't seem to soak in properly. SO i've since moved areas to 1 squirt on my chest, 1 on my upper ab region, 1 on either side of my oblique/lat region (lift your arm, below the arm pit and a bit round the back area) and 1 squirt on either forearm on the inside. It seems to be absorbing MUCH better over a larger surface area.

TP, zinc is required for test production. If my test is suppressed a bit, it should aid a bit. Actually, this may be one of the times where ZMA can be useful (the other time being in zinc deficiency). I don't see the point in buying ZMA though, when zinc alone is much cheaper and does the job.

Zinc boosts (or can help boost or prevent drops) in leptin too. So can vitamin E, so i may take more of that (like 1200iu, 400iu thrice daily). Of course, since i'm in calorie surplus you've just gotta wonder how much difference the vitamine E will make, but i'll probably implement it anyway.

Posted by: Robboe

Oh yes, i weighed myself this morning.

I'm 15st 7.5lbs.

That's 217.5lbs, which is 6lbs heavier in one week.

The thing is, i don't look or feel 6lbs heavier than last week. Then again, i see myself in the mirror everyday, so i doubt i could tell.

It's quite weird. Especially since i weighed in after a refeed last week, like i've mentioned.

So, i've been off NHE for about 11 days now, i think. And in that time, i've gained 22lbs.

Interesting...

Posted by: Robboe

That's crazy.

2.5lbs more and i'll be at the weight i was at 22 weeks ago when i first began my 20 week cutting plan.

Posted by: kuso

Thats great to hear TCD

Particularly, as you say, the last weigh in being after your refeed.

Very impressive!

Are you working out today?

Posted by: Robboe

Damn fucking right i am.

I've had the past two days off and i was going nuts yesterday. I really wanted to lift. Calorie surplus always makes me like this. I've totally re-ignited my passion for heavy weight training.

I have back and calves soon.

Posted by: kuso

Back and calves....yeah!

Make sure to post when you are done.

Shit....I gotta get my shoulder back in working order! lol I`m dying to try this!!!

Posted by: Twin Peak

Wow, thats a serious gain. How do you look? Are you almost as lean? If so than excellent. My guess is though that up to 10 pounds of it is/can be water.

Good news on reigniting your passion for heavy weights. That's what its all about after all.

Hopefully your definition of HEAVY will change considerably over the next few weeks!

Posted by: Robboe

Well i don't think i've put much fat on. I do know i'm holding a bit of water though. My midsection and upper torso look a bit 'puffier', basically, traits of water retention. So yeah, i' agree, if i went low carbs now i'd drop a shit load of water.

For leaneancy, my midsection looks just as bad as it did when i finished cutting - the top two abs pathetically poking through still.

Seriously though, if we decided that all 22lbs were fat (which they're not of course) then that's 77,000kcals worth. Which, over 11 days, requires me to eat 7000kcals a day. Which i haven't been doing.

If we say 10lbs is water, then 12lbs is 42,000kcals (if it's 12lbs fat that is) which means ~3800kcals a day, which is closer to the money.

But since i've not added 12lbs of fat, i've added no more than 2-4. But you'd expect ~8lbs of muscle to be quite visible.

Like i've said previously, my muscles do look bigger and fuller, but this is something i've only attributed to the glycogen.

We'll see when i weigh in next week. If i'm 230lbs you know it's the 1-T lol.

Posted by: Robboe

Oh yeah, suppose i better amend the old diet a bit.

At 217lbs i am now eating about 18kcals per lb. I need to bump it to closer to 20kcals per lb, so i'll add about 200kcals on somewhere.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Wow are you really that strict that you count to a tee? I just care about being in the vacinity of 4K, which, no doubt, you noticed on fitday.

Posted by: Robboe

Well, not really strict no. It;s not something i was gonna mark down. I was just gonna do it mentally. For instance, if i was pouring out a bowl of oats and going for 84g, i may purposely spill over to 90g here and there.

Eat a bit more cottage cheese, a few more nuts. That sort of thing. I was just making public note of it so others could grasp a gist of what i do.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Ahh, good to know.

BTW, never realized how many calories are in one little cup 'o nuts.

Posted by: Robboe

Yup. They're calorie-dense little fuckers.

Good for when you need the cals and you don't feel like eating anymore. So is oil actually.

Posted by: Yanick

Rob,

this is interesting stuff. I've had a hunch that you don't necessarily need 6-oxo when doing 2 week cycles as your HPTA is only starting to decline. So do you reckon i should even waste money on 6-oxo if i'm gonna be trying 2 week cycles like you?

Posted by: Robboe

Funny you should ask. I just read something by par deus on AL saying that 6-OXO would be a good idea for shorter cycles since the testicular mass would still be present.

Never the less, i still don't plan on buying any 6-OXO.

Righty, good and bad news. Good news is that my session was good. Bad news is that the back of my neck is hurting like a bitch. Last week i felt a twinge in the back of my neck/trap area (if i had to pin it down, i'd say inside right of the trap portion II, if portion I is higher up connecting to the base of the skull). So it's in that vaccinity. Anyhoo, it subsided sharpish at the time so i thought nothing of it. But i got thorugh all of my rows no problem and moved onto shrugs. I warmed up up with a light weight and then waited a few minutes before going for my heavy set - a set which i actually put down in weight by 10kg per DB a few weeks back. Ironic or what. Anyhoo, i got 7 reps but had to stop because of the trap/neck pain. Sure i was annoyed and not being able to do a proper trap workout, but i'd rather be fit and injury free then risk problems for one set. Anyhoo, i stopped the workout then and there as far as back was concerned. I did some calf raises and then got out of there. I stood around talking to Danny the gym rat for a while and the pain seemed to get worse to the point where tipping my head back a certain distance causes some discomfort. It's eased a little now, but it's still painful. I just hope i'm good for tomorrow.

I did about 11 sets of vertical and horizontal rows before the fateful kneeling DB shrug set.

I was disappointed at first with my wide grip chins. I strapped 20kg round my waist and was hoping for about 4 reps (2 reps with this weight is a PB), but i only got two. I felt weak until i realised that due to my own weight, i was lifting an extra 10kg. Which is quite cool. SO i dropped to 15k and got 2 again and then with 10k i got 2 lol. So overall i was fucked haha. Anyhoo...

All my other sets progressed - BB rows, CG PD and low pulley row. So i'm good.

Posted by: Yanick

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Funny you should ask. I just read something by par deus on AL saying that 6-OXO would be a good idea for shorter cycles since the testicular mass would still be present.

Hmmm, i'm not sure what you're getting at, how is it better because of the testicular mass being there? I thought that 6-oxo would help recover estrogen, ie bring testicular mass to normal.

I do know that it can be used as an anti-e. But i don't see the connection

Posted by: Robboe

I imagine he means that since the Testicular mass is still there, that it would help spurn a recovery of Test quicker than if the clems were totally raisined.

Other than that i'm not sure.

Posted by: Yanick

oh ok.

and i meant test in my previous post, 6 oxo helps brings test back to baseline not estrogen.

Posted by: Robboe

I had a feeling this would happen.

My interest is being diverted away from fat loss biochemistry and more towards hypertrophy biochem.

It always seems to happen depending on what goals i currently have.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Makes sense. Do you think this is a problem?

Posted by: Robboe

Nah not really, but in general, my interest in the biochemistry behind hypertrophy is negible and when i start gaining it takes over my interest in fat loss, so i tend to fall behind on the newer info a bit.

Of course it's not something i'm gonna lose sleep over. I could always do with a bit more muscle

Posted by: Twin Peak

Exactly! Or a lot more muscle!

Posted by: Robboe

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Exactly! Or a lot more muscle!

Haha!!!!

Translation:

"Rob, you're a skinny little bitch."

Posted by: Yanick

Rob,

i just figured out how to change the name of the thread. Go to your very first post and edit/delete it. Then just change the subject line. voila!

and yes, i have no life

Posted by: Twin Peak

Funny! No, it was a ONE, comment.

Posted by: Jenny

to a great thread.. I tried reading it all, but I kinda got an headache after the first 5 pages..

How much have you lost in total? I kinda feel like trying this myself..
Your a very knowledgeable man.. that's for sure..

NG

Posted by: Robboe

Yan, go see, i tried that last week to no avail.

Miss _Girl, i dieted for 20 weeks in total. The first 10 weeks were a modified version of NHE with carb loads occuring after training (so three times a week). In those ten weeks i went from 220lbs to 207.5lbs. And for the remaining ten weeks i shifted to full NHE and went from 207.5lbs to 195.5lbs. So that's like 24.5lbs lost in 20 weeks. Which is more or less 1lb a week.

But the funniest part of it was that within 11 days of coming off NHE, and after carbing up and putting on water/glycogen weight and eating more food, i'm back up to 217.5lbs. And more or less at the same bf% when i finished cutting (although my waist is ~2" bigger now cause my stomach has stretched loads from all the food i'm now eating and the water retention etc...).

If i lowered my carbs and calories a bit, within a week i reckon i'd probably lose ~10lbs water, give or take a few lbs. Crazy eh?

There's a photo from september somewhere in here on one of the last 5-10 pages if you haven't seen it.

Posted by: Robboe

I'll save you a job, here it is:

Posted by: Robboe

Ok, trained chest earlier. Good workout.

Progressed on everything, but it was just a few reps here and there on most so like TP says about his own progression, it's not necessarily attributable to the 1-T.

On a side note, i can really feel the difference training on carbs. In the gym i feel like i want to be there and my endurance is great. I want to do that next set. When i was training on low carbs á la NHE, the sooner i was in the gym the sooner i wanted to be out. Especially during the latter weeks.

So here's the workout:

BB bench: 2 sets (progressed by a rep on my first set).
Decline machine press: 3 sets. First two sets were well short of failure, stopping at 6 reps because i wanted a heavier weight. I actually think the weight i pressed today is a personal Best but i can't be totally sure of that. My last set had 2 negatives.
Incline DB bench: 2 sets. First set using the 36's like i did a few weeks back (then for about 6) getting 10 reps easy. Second set using the 40's, which i've not used for this exercise in over a year, and got 6. So that was cool.
Weighted dips: Using done second in my routine, and i've not done them in a while, so i never used my usual weight. 2 sets.
cable crossovers: 2 sets. Felt good.

And did some abs to finish up.

So that's quite a few sets for me!

Posted by: Twin Peak

nice gains. I look forward to the second week!

Posted by: Yanick

Its great to see your passion to lift returning Rob. I'm the same way. I took a week off of my diet a few weeks back and my energy and drive just flooded back into me, i couldn't wait to hit the gym everyday, hellish volume too, just for the hell of it.

Anyway, i'm going to be asking you mucho questions in the next week about random shit, just so i ABSOLUTELY know that i have all my shit together.

Posted by: Robboe

I've found some photos from the wedding in London from the end of August i'm gonna try and get round to scanning them in and posting them. Hopefully by tomorrow.

Posted by: Jenny

Hey there..

Nice pic..

looking good.. Wow, 24 lbs.. that's a lot for sure..
Well.. I just had a chocolatechip cookie..

I've been cutting calories for some weeks though and lost about 8 pounds.. Just by basicy avoiding sugars.. and going low in fat.. Not very low carb..
Will read up on your diet here and maybe change my diet..
So, I'll let you know if I have any questions!

And hey, post those pics from the wedding.. We all want to see you messing with the bridesmaids..

Meanwhile, I'll try to stay away from the cookie jar...

Posted by: Robboe

Low fat diets only work for about 2-3 weeks max before you start running into problems, so i'd advise you quit it.

NHE worked well and it's all fine and dandy, especially for people who have slight eating disorders and find cravings get the better of them. Next time i cut i'm just gonna do a carb/protein/fat diet and keep calories in check, doing proper refeeds every week or so (depending on how often i go out drinking). I say 'proper' meaning focusing on carbs and not fat. Basically, not carbing on chocolate like i did on NHE during the latter stages.

I went out last night and had a great time. All my best friends out together again for once in a long time.

My ears are totally fucked right now though. Feels like i'm wearing some sort of invisible ear muffs. Quite annoying now.

Leg session went very well. My squat weight is climbing back up, slowly but surely. My SLDL weight is equalling a Personal Best from a few months back as of today. So i was well happy with that. Leg press weight is also accelerating with good speed.

Workout summary:

Squats: 3 sets
SLDLs: 3 sets
Leg press: 2 sets
Extentsions: 2 sets
Hack squats: 2 sets
Leg curls: 2 sets.

Total sets: 14.

Posted by: Twin Peak

C'mon man, you know I like to see weights and rep! At least for SOME of the sets! Gotta make sure you are training hard and heavy.

BTW, I was in the gym yesterday (rare for me to go on a Saturday) and aside form the powerlifting club being there, there was some huge mofo. Thing was he was curling with samll weights. Yet the veins were popping! Whats that tell you?

Posted by: Robboe

GPP?

Posted by: Twin Peak

?

I am terrible with anacronyms.

Posted by: Robboe

Ok, here's the workout:

Squats: 150k [330] - 6
155k [341] - 4
105k - 12

The weight on my squats are moving back up nicely. I don't wanna jump back up too quick though, or else i never seem to go as low. Which i don't want, naturally.

SLDLs: 170k [374] - 6
172.5k [379.5] - 4 (Eq PB)
140k [308] - 8

Very strong here. A 400lb stiff is in site within this gaining cycle, i can taste it.

Leg press: 260k [572] - 12
265k [583] - 8

My PB for the press is 280k [616] and i reckon i'll get it back soon enough.

Extensions: 65k - 8
65k - 8

Waaay short of failure here, but the stack only goes to 80k so there's no point in rushing up yet.

Hack squat: 50k [110] - 8
50k - 6

Last week i did these straight after stiffs, but it was being used this week so i just went straight to the press and th exts. last week i did 70k but i was fucked by this point so just went for 50k.

Leg curls: 35k - 8
20k - 9

So all in all, every progressed except hacks for said reason. Which is ace.

Posted by: Robboe

General physical preparation.

Posted by: Robboe

One thing i've noticed: when i came off the dieting and went to gaining i had some nasty cravings for junk food, but after a couple of week's in calorie surplus (without adding much fat) i feel dandy and the cravings are gone. I don't even want to treat myself for the hell of it, nevermind mentally craving anything.

Posted by: Jenny

Ok.. So you think I should change it.. I do eat some fat.. But less than I used to.. I tried the low carb, high protein, mod fat thing for a while last spring and I gained 5 pounds.. Don't think I did for as long as I should to see results, I kinda got scared and stopped..

This is a sample day now:
Meal 1:
6whites
1/2 cup oatmeal (cooked with pieces of apple, cinnamon and flax seeds.. Delicious!

)

Meal 2:
Proteinshake
Apple
8 almonds

Meal 3:
4 oz Chicken breast
veggies

Meal 4:
proteinshake
apple

Meal 5:
4 oz lean beef
veggies
1/2 cup brown rice

What do you suggest? Lose the apples and add some fats? I love my apples, puh-lease don't make me take them away..

Thanks,
Jen

Posted by: Robboe

Originally posted by Nike_Girl
Ok.. So you think I should change it.. I do eat some fat.. But less than I used to.. I tried the low carb, high protein, mod fat thing for a while last spring and I gained 5 pounds.. Don't think I did for as long as I should to see results, I kinda got scared and stopped..

This is a sample day now:
Meal 1:
6whites
1/2 cup oatmeal (cooked with pieces of apple, cinnamon and flax seeds.. Delicious!

)

This needs fat of some description. Even adding some of the yolkes here is a good idea.

Meal 2:
Proteinshake
Apple
8 almonds

Can't you get some other form of protein in here? If it's whey protein, then it really is wank at any time other than post workout.

Meal 3:
4 oz Chicken breast
veggies

Fat.

Meal 4:
proteinshake
apple

Same as above re: whey.

Same as above re: fat.

Meal 5:
4 oz lean beef
veggies
1/2 cup brown rice

Better, but you probably stand to have more fat in here.

What do you suggest? Lose the apples and add some fats? I love my apples, puh-lease don't make me take them away..

Thanks,
Jen

Keep your apple a day. Hell, even i eat an apple a day.

What's the overall calories of that plan?

If they're too low you're fucked (or gonna fuck yourself).

If they're too high you'll not lose anything except maybe water weight, which kinda negates the purpose of a cut, so you're fucked.

Do you not have extreme hunger pains for most of the day with that plan? It would kill me. My binges would go off on a tangent eating like that.

Just ensure:

1. calorie deficit (not too big. Start with bodyweight x15kcals to start with and see what happens real world. Adjust calories to drop between 0.5-1.5lb a week).
2. Ensure adequate protein.
3. Ensure adequate EFAs, which your current plan severely lacks.

And don't stress over stuff so much cause cortisol fucks you over more than the above.

Posted by: Robboe

Fantastic delt/arm workout. Not enough time for actual numbers, so:

delts:

DB press: 3 sets
side laterals: 2 sets
bent laterals: 2 sets

Tris/bis:

CGBP: 2 sets
preachers: 2 sets
seated skulls: 2 sets
DB curl: 1 set

Done.

Again, just like last week, poor time management and getting pulled back an hour by a friedn at Uni to explain to him a java assignment and rob's diet plan is arsed up by a meal or two. So, just like last week, i had a nestle double cream chocolate bar (~700kcals) and a chunky white kitkat (~200kcals) on the way back from the gym. I was considering have a couple of protein bars, but i asked myself: Would i rather have ~900kcals from some nasty-ass protein bar, or 900kcals from chocolate?

Needless to say which won...

Posted by: Twin Peak

Good w/o? How good?

Posted by: Jenny

TCD.. you're my god!!

Yeah.. I know.. I knew you were going to say that.. but I'm such a fat phobic..

Ok.. I'll try to switch things around some today.. and let ypu know.. should I keep my oatmeal in meal 1? I'm having it about 30 mins.. so I guess I won't know this morning.. I'll just improvise..

Thank you..

master Chicken daddy..

Posted by: Robboe

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Good w/o? How good?

4.789' out of 5.

Posted by: Robboe

Originally posted by Nike_Girl
TCD.. you're my god!!

Yeah.. I know.. I knew you were going to say that.. but I'm such a fat phobic..

master Chicken daddy..

Providing you have no eating disorders (like binges if you get even slight hunger pangs etc...) where i'd say do a low carb diet (since fat and protein seem to blunt appetite more), just make sure every meal has:

Some low GI carbs (to regulate blood sugar).
some quality, complex protein (i.e. not whey, but it can be handy every here and there. casein shakes are a good choice if you can get it, but ideally, go the wholefood route).
Some fat (with about 20-30% of the make-up being EFA's).
Some fibre (in at least half of your meals. It stretches the stomach out a bit and makes you feel fuller so there's less chance of you going off on a binge).

So an example meal would be:

oats
chicken and cottage cheese (or either on their own)
flax oil
fruit or green veg (the fruit being preferably watery, fibrous - basically, not dried fruit).

Or something to that effect. My example is bland as hell, but a bit of creativity can go a long way. Just keep the calories controlled and in deficit and make sure your workouts are productive.

Fitday has proved extremely helpful for some who don't sit down and plan a diet out that they stick to day in, day out (like moi). Maybe try that?

If not, just plan a diet, print it out, stick it to your cupboard and follow it. And obviously, you know that consistency is everything. One good day's eating is like one good training session - it means fuck all unless you do it regularly.

By the way, you aren't exempt from the rule that all must follow - address me as 'Rob'.

Posted by: Robboe

On a side note, i've been seriously deliberating doing shorter gains and cutting cycles.

For example, gain for 6 weeks, cut for 4. Repeat. The 4 week cut would just be a "damage limitation" thing, and the best part is that only 4 weeks cutting wouldn't give me the shitty feeling i get after several weeks cutting.

If i can gain 2-4lbs of muscle on a 6 week gain, and drop ~2lbs on a 4 week cut, i reckon that could be quite productive. I'm not totally decided yet, so i'd like to hear some opinions.

Posted by: Robboe

Oh, and the next little fucker who sets off a fire work outside my house is gonna taste boot sandwich.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
On a side note, i've been seriously deliberating doing shorter gains and cutting cycles.

For example, gain for 6 weeks, cut for 4. Repeat. The 4 week cut would just be a "damage limitation" thing, and the best part is that only 4 weeks cutting wouldn't give me the shitty feeling i get after several weeks cutting.

If i can gain 2-4lbs of muscle on a 6 week gain, and drop ~2lbs on a 4 week cut, i reckon that could be quite productive. I'm not totally decided yet, so i'd like to hear some opinions.

Funny, I have been considering the exact same thing, 6 bulk, 4 cut.

But then I keep hearing (or seeing) your voice (or words) saying to keep cals high on my off cycle. I have been thinking this cuz I don't like the fat gain I feel I am getting (shirts are getting tight around the neck and pants are fitting tighter).

Keep me posted on this.

Posted by: Robboe

Well i said 6 and 4 for the sake of the round numbers and spending a little longer in surplus for muscle gain. I dunno, would 5 over, 5 under be better?

I'd doubt such a small detail would make a grand bit of difference but you never know.

Obviously i'm still gonna keep calories above maintenance post cycle, but after about 2 weeks i'll be smashing and i may do a 4 week mini-cut.

If i did a 6 week cycle i'd maybe wait a further 4 weeks before reducing calories enough to lose weight. You don't have to keep the calories as high as you have them now, reduce a bit, but just don't go into calorie deficit.

Posted by: Jenny

chicken..err.. Rob..

well... I do know most of that actually.. I mean what I'm supposed to do.. I've been following the whole DPWB thing since the beginning.. But I've kinda been scared to follow it all the way out...

And I do love my fruit so darn much..

Here's the diet so far today.. comments? have one meal left..

Meal 1:
6 whites, 1 yolk
10 almonds
1 cup cabbage
233 cals, 12g fat, 4g carbs, 29g protein
(I'm still a bit hungry... probably need to put oatmeal here too.. )

Meal 2 (after leg workout + cardio ) :
1 apple
1 tbsp flax seed
about 35 g whey powder
310 cals, 14g fat, 16g carbs, 31g protein

Meal 3:
5 oz lean beef
1 cup cabbage
1/2 cup red pepper and small onions
0.5 tbsp olive oil
376 cals, 19g fat, 0g carbs, 42g protein

Meal 4:
5 oz lean pork
lots of veggies (mushrooms, cabbage, red pepper and spinach..)
1/2 an avocado
small apple
497 cals, 27g fat , 20g carbs, 43g protein

Posted by: Jenny

Ooops.. forgot to say THANK YOU.. for helping me..

Posted by: Jenny

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

Some low GI carbs (to regulate blood sugar).
How much? and should all be complex.. or some just veggies?

some quality, complex protein (i.e. not whey, but it can be handy every here and there. casein shakes are a good choice if you can get it, but ideally, go the wholefood route).
ok.. I can do that.. I don't like that powder much anyway..

Some fat (with about 20-30% of the make-up being EFA's).
Some fibre (in at least half of your meals. It stretches the stomach out a bit and makes you feel fuller so there's less chance of you going off on a binge).
I'm good at that.. *snacking on cabbage*

So an example meal would be:

oats
chicken and cottage cheese (or either on their own)
flax oil
fruit or green veg (the fruit being preferably watery, fibrous - basically, not dried fruit).

So basicly, apples & grapefruits are ok.. But what about pears, oranges and my fav *drumroll* kiwis? And what about the lactose in cottage cheese.?? No biggie?

Fitday has proved extremely helpful for some who don't sit down and plan a diet out that they stick to day in, day out (like moi). Maybe try that?
Yeah.. I've been a faithful Fitday:er for a while.. with some downperiods.. what about carb ups.. do I need them? and I guess cheatdays are out of the question.. :o .. (or should I follow your drinking binges.. ? )

By the way, you aren't exempt from the rule that all must follow - address me as 'Rob'.

K.. I can do that too..

Jen

Posted by: Robboe

Well, that's 1416 kcals so far today.

145g pro (580)
40g carbs (160)
72g fat (648)

So that's 1388kcals (small discrepancy doesn't mean much so don't worry).

How many calories are you shooting for?

If you've been cutting for a while already you may already know, but if not, start theoretically and adjst depending on real world results. Basically, take your body weight and multiply it by 12.

This will be your calorie level you'll be shooting for. After a week or two, assess weight change (under the same conditions as your baseline weight was taken). Aim for a 0.5-1.5lb loss a week. Anymore is eating into muscle (unless you're a fatfuck where dropping a lot of fat at once is easy). Any less and you're not getting anywhere. Tweak your calories to comply with your goals depending on your weight change.

Weight can be effected by water and glycogen and food retention, but it's a more reliable gauge than looking in the mirror IMO, cause 9 people out of 10 always see themselves and less muscular and fatter than they are. (or too skinny for those trying to gain weight).

Don't drop calories too far, too fast.

And with a carb intake like that, carb ups should be mandatory. 1-2 a week.

If you go an isocaloric route (1/3 carbs, 1/3 pro, 1/3 fat) then do a weekly refeed.

In fact, EVERY diet down should have a carb load/refeed of some description. IMO anyway.

"How much carbs?"

Depends on your bodyweight, calorie needs and meal structure. By my comments above, once you've worked them out, you'll know.

Kiwis are fine, yeah. In moderation.

Beer-ups. Well, try and avoid them cause beer or alcohol serves absolutely no purpose for anything biologically. Mentally, it's cool if you're out for the whole dutch-courage thing and if you enjoy a drink for the nerve calming aspect. Basically, i'm saying keep a social life, but keep tabs on it - once a week.

Lactose in cottage cheese is minimal. You'll never eat enough cottage cheese for lactose to have any adverse effect (the only adverse effect being the possibility of not keeping you full and stimulating breaking diet). Not while you're controlling it on your diet anyway. Besides, lactose won't stop you dropping fat unless you eat more calories with it.

The reason you were hungry after meal one is cause it hardly stretched the stomach enough. Not to mention that you've not eaten for about 8+ hours before that, and all you're having is ~300 kcals for that meal. I'm not saying going off and stuffing your face in the morning, but just look at your calories for meal 4 when you've eaten about 3-4 hours just previously compared to meal one where you've not eaten for over 8 hours.

I'm not too sure why you were/are scared of following the DPw8 strategy of things. They're essentially the same principles as mine only they're stricter with their stuff than me.

Posted by: Jenny

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Well, that's 1416 kcals so far today.

145g pro (580)
40g carbs (160)
72g fat (648)

So that's 1388kcals (small discrepancy doesn't mean much so don't worry).
*Well.. Since I used Fitday.. I calculated each meal in my head..

guess I'm not a genius.. lol

How many calories are you shooting for?
*Well.. basicly 1500-1700.. somewhere.. I'm scared to go higher.. but I would probably not die from eating a little more.. It's all about meal composition.. right?

This will be your calorie level you'll be shooting for. After a week or two, assess weight change (under the same conditions as your baseline weight was taken). Aim for a 0.5-1.5lb loss a week. Anymore is eating into muscle (unless you're a fatfuck where dropping a lot of fat at once is easy). Any less and you're not getting anywhere. Tweak your calories to comply with your goals depending on your weight change.
*Lol.. No.. I'm not a fat fuck.. you're such rude bastard, know that? :d

Weight can be effected by water and glycogen and food retention, but it's a more reliable gauge than looking in the mirror IMO, cause 9 people out of 10 always see themselves and less muscular and fatter than they are. (or too skinny for those trying to gain weight).
*Yeah.. I probably do that.. so I'll go by the scale some.. though hormones and everything screws that up some.. I'm a bloated cow right now thanks to those..

Don't drop calories too far, too fast.
*been there.. done that.. :o

And with a carb intake like that, carb ups should be mandatory. 1-2 a week.
If you go an isocaloric route (1/3 carbs, 1/3 pro, 1/3 fat) then do a weekly refeed.
*I don't know what way to go.. What do you suggest? This day has been pretty ok.. but I need that morning oatmeal..

In fact, EVERY diet down should have a carb load/refeed of some description. IMO anyway.
*ok.. cool.. And I like the word refeed better than cheat day..

Kiwis are fine, yeah. In moderation.
*Thank you, thank you, thank you.. So would 12 a day be too many?

j/k

Beer-ups. Well, try and avoid them cause beer or alcohol serves absolutely no purpose for anything biologically. Mentally, it's cool if you're out for the whole dutch-courage thing and if you enjoy a drink for the nerve calming aspect. Basically, i'm saying keep a social life, but keep tabs on it - once a week.
*Well.. I'm pretty much a wuz when it comes to beer, so I don't need to worry about that.. much..

Lactose in cottage cheese is minimal. You'll never eat enough cottage cheese for lactose to have any adverse effect (the only adverse effect being the possibility of not keeping you full and stimulating breaking diet). Not while you're controlling it on your diet anyway. Besides, lactose won't stop you dropping fat unless you eat more calories with it.
*Ok.. cool.. I have another milk product that I just love!.. It's called kesella.. a swedish thing.. uhm.. I really don't know how to explain it.. Has 75cals/100 g: pro 13g, carbs 3,5g, fat 1g..
Contains (some bad translation here

) :high pasteurized skim milk, highly pasteurized cream, souring culture(??), rennet..
I'm guessing it's a nono, cause of the skim milk and stuff.. too bad..

The reason you were hungry after meal one is cause it hardly stretched the stomach enough. Not to mention that you've not eaten for about 8+ hours before that, and all you're having is ~300 kcals for that meal. I'm not saying going off and stuffing your face in the morning, but just look at your calories for meal 4 when you've eaten about 3-4 hours just previously compared to meal one where you've not eaten for over 8 hours.
*I know.. I realised that pretty quickly.. trained legs a few hours after and it was HELL.. but thank's to my thermo I can hardly walk..

btw, are thermos ok? I remember you mention something about it..

I'm not too sure why you were/are scared of following the DPw8 strategy of things. They're essentially the same principles as mine only they're stricter with their stuff than me.
* Well, maybe I was just lazy.. and didn't want to give up my fruit..

Posted by: Robboe

1. Correct, you're not a genius.
2. Correct, i'm a rude bastard.
3. haha.
4. If you find the low carb approach easy to follow, go with it. If it's what you've been doing for a little while now, stick to it so later down the line if you need a change up, you can do an iso for a few weeks.
5. re: that cheese stuff. How much would you want to eat a day? It doesn't look too bad. not too calorie dense. You're not gonna eat 100g a time are you? If you eat it in moderation you can still manage.
6. translation was fine.
7. thermos are useful, but you don't really need them regular until the latter stages of the cut. And when i say "need", i mean you can achieve without them but near the end of a cut they can be real useful.

Posted by: Jenny

ok.. thanks.. I think that's all for now.. For a rude bastard, you're kinda nice..

oh.. right.. one more.. carb-ups.. should they look like DPW8's.. or can I improvise?

Posted by: Robboe

Improvise in what way?

Don't do a chocolate carb-up á la Rob.

The carb ups recommended by DPw8 is a beverly one, right? It looks good.

Posted by: Robboe

Random ramblings:

1. I'm pissed that i've run out of cottage cheese.
2. This kids cereal tastes ace.
3. 'Answering Bell' by Ryan Adams is a great track.
4. Candlebox are quite brilliant.

Posted by: Robboe

Today is the last day of application of this first two week cycle. I'm now gonna spend at least 2 weeks making sure i keep all my gains, via shorter training sessions, lower volume, shy of failure training, EC throughout the day, keeping protein and carbs up (i.e. no low carbs), nicotine gum and extra zinc.

I weighed myself today 3lbs heavier than last week. Probably because my metabolic rate was higher after the weight gain from the first week and i never really amended calories as i should have.

So i took 20 weeks getting from 220lbs to 195lbs, and three weeks to get 0.5lb heavier than my old weight lol. What a transaction. So yes, i am now 220.5lbs.

Fat gain is hard to judge. By the end of the night i look like i'm in the third trimester, but first thing in the morning i look reasonably leaner. Almost (but not quite) as lean as i was at the end of the cut 3 weeks back.

I do expect to weigh in lighter within the next few days, purely based on less food retention overall. When i get back from the gym later i'm gonna workout where to reduce calories. I'm gonna work down to 3500, which is slightly above maintence level at this weight.

I'm still considering doing a short cut soon too. There's about 7 weeks till christmas, so i may do these next two weeks recovering from ONE and maybe adding a lb here and there and then do a short 3-4 week cut down to 210-215 (i'm expecting a short drop from less food remember) and then do a further gain, probably using ONE again after christmas. I'll just play it by ear most likely.

Posted by: Twin Peak

SO what are your thoughts on ONE?

What were your stength gains? Any noticable muscle gains? Vascularity? Anything you'd attribute to ONE? Worthwhile in the end?

Posted by: Robboe

Hard to judge really.

I wasn't expecting to put that much weight on with the amount of calories i was eating, so i can guarantee it's not all fat gain. Not that much fat gain really, depending on what time during the day you catch me.

I guess a better assessment will be made when i try and gain without it. And then when i go back on it.

I say it's hard to judge due to me coming off a low carb diet and moving onto a carb-based one.

Strength hasn't really been that spectacular at all, in all honesty. Nothing i doubt i couldn't have made in 3 weeks or so without it. I have set a few new PB in the short time using the stuff, but my strength was always hovering around those regions during the cut, so i'm not surprised i've surpassed them when i moved back into cal surplus and carbs.

Back day: no time for figures:

WG chins: 3 sets (progression on these is a bastard due to my sudden weight gain. the weight i attach to myself has gone down. My neck pain is also still there and was bothering me so i never really pushed myself 101%).
BB rows: hit a new PB

3 sets.
CG pulldowns: 2 sets, with the second being a drop set. Progressed by a few reps on both sets.
Low pulley row: 2 sets, again a drop set on second set. Progressed by 2 reps first set and 3 second.

No shrugs due to aforementioned neck pain.

Finished up with some calf work (not noted).

Tomorrow i have chest. I haven't worked out the new calories yet, but if i don't get around to it, i'll just...eat less, basically

I'm good at judging stuff.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Hmmm, maybe next cycle I'll stick to my VPX. Tomorrow is arms again, can't wait!

Posted by: Robboe

Did chest earlier.

Great session in fact.

BB bench: 100k - 8 (up 3 from last week)
102.5k - 5 (equalled a PB)

Decline machine press: progressed. It's a poorly designed machine so you gotta use a large weight to provide adequate resistance so i'll not bother typing the weight i used, cause it sounds very unlikely. 2 sets.

Incline DB press: 2 sets. 40k's for 9 reps then 8.

Cables, progressed.

Great pump, great session overall.

Started the EC, nicotine, extra E, extra Zinc today.

calories are gonna be lower but nothing i've officially worked out yet.

Posted by: Robboe

Legs went great.

Squats: 3 sets. progressed on all.
SLDL's: 2 sets, set PB's on both.
Leg press: 2 sets, progressed on both.
Leg curl: 2 sets, progressed on first and kept weight static for second.

~Toasted~

Posted by: Yanick

Hey Rob, are your progressions as dramatic as TP's? I mean, do you just progress a rep or two, or you do increase weight and reps?

Posted by: Robboe

I'm off the ONE now.

My progression wasn't as dramatic no, but my gain of weight was.

Posted by: Yanick

The weight gain is definitely going to freak me out, i'm worse than TP. But i promised myself to stick this out to the end i'll cut later.

Posted by: Robboe

Extremely good delt/arm workout. Progressed on all. Numbers later if i have time and can be arsed.

No need for chocolate/protein bars today cause i have plenty of time to get down all my calories.

My body is in an extremely anabolic state right now, and Rob is loving every minute of it.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
My body is in an extremely anabolic state right now, and Rob is loving every minute of it.

Any ideas or theories as to why?

Posted by: Robboe

Calorie surplus

The most underrated aspect of growth.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Startin' to think so too.

Posted by: lina

Hi Rob,

Sounds like things are going well

in here...

Posted by: kuso

TCD.....I believe TP asked you in the other thread, but it got lost amoungst dg`s posts, but what kind of results did you get with SU/UA, and how did you go about cycling it?

TIA

Posted by: Robboe

Started low and worked my way way up.

started with 500mg for a few days, then 750 for a few more then 1g for a few days.

In the last 2 days of use i used 1.25g and was about to move up to 1.5g before i noticed the rash and quit straight away.

I told myself before starting it not to go stupid with it, and now looking back i realise (but didn't then) that i went totally against my own advice.

Next use i'll not top 1g.

I only used for 12 days, but the idea is to use for a bit longer to really see decent results (although some see good results very quick).

The results were nothing magnificent. I suppose a longer duration would have proved better, but i quit once i saw the rash.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Where was the rash?

Posted by: Robboe

Neck, arms, belly (worst area) and inner thighs.

Posted by: kuso

TCD....do you have any links laying around where I could catch myself up on it?

Posted by: Robboe

None, sorry.

Posted by: kuso

Oh well.....guess I`ll need to search myself then

lol

BTW....are you one of those people that gets rashes etc easily?

Posted by: Robboe

Not that i know of.

Posted by: kuso

So the ONE hasn`t caused you any discomfort or irritations at all?

Certain deoderats give me rashes, as well as one washing powder, so I`m kinda paranoid about buying it is all! lol

Posted by: Robboe

You may be allergic to enzymes.

All i got from one was a few more localised spots.

Trained back earlier.

8 sets, three exercises.

Progressed on two. The first i didn't cause i did the pulldown as opposed to chins, since some dick was using the chin bar.

Weighed in at 216lbs today, which is down 4.5lbs from last week. So that's one week off the ONE.

Reasoning: eating less food, eating less carbs, so less food and water retention.

Right, now i need to decide whether to go to this seminar thingie at 7pm.

Posted by: Yanick

is the seminar about anything interesting?

Posted by: Robboe

No idea, didn't go.

Posted by: Yanick

lol

i bet it was a hard decision.

Posted by: Robboe

Went and bought some much needed food instead.

Chest earlier. Good session.

Progressed and set new PB's on both sets of BB bench. ace.

Progressed on decline machine press.

Same weight for same reps on incline DBs. Progressed on cables.

Good fun overall.

And now the new MSN is seriously starting to piss me off.

That is all.

Posted by: kuso

MSN seems to have rooted my IE too

Posted by: lina

for your siggie....utterly disgusting, yet funny!

Posted by: Robboe

Damn right. It had me in stitches for a good long while.

Did legs today, 9 sets in total. Progressed on everything.

Progression is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

And that's despite yesterday's foodage being a bit fucked up. I went to the Toon match vs Southampton. We sat in the heavens too. I forgot how shitty my vertigo is. The stadium is fucking huge.

Off to see the Foo Fighters very soon.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Seems like you are progressing with every w/o. Nice. Food is good.

Posted by: Robboe

Yup, yup.

Debating whther to cut for a few weeks at the end of this one, or wait till after christmas.

The Foo Fighters ROCK.

Posted by: Twin Peak

How much have you gained? Can you see appreciable muscle growth? How long would you cut? How much would you look to lose?

Posted by: Robboe

1. hard to say due to water/glycogen/food retention.

2. Yes, i am visibly bigger. Fuller too, since i started the carbs back.

Y'know, i never though i'd EVER use the phrase "fuller" or "fullness" to describe muscles, cause it sounds really dumb IMO, but it really is the easiest way to describe it.

3. If i cut next week, probably for 4 weeks max.

4. As much fat as possible and as little muscle as possible.

Over 4 weeks i doubt i'd lose any muscle.

Posted by: Robboe

Delts/arms.

Everything progressed. Which is ace.

I am ace.

I'm pressing the 36's again for DB shoulder press. That's like 80lbers for you Yanks. (Is an 'american' a 'Yank', or just people from NY? I've never been sure). Anyhoo, that's dangerously close to the weight i'm incline pressing right now (the 40's), but then again, my shoulders have always been strong as hell.

Diet schedule was fucked up as per usual like every monday. I stayed at Uni late to sit in a microsoft seminar thing on .NET. It was quite boring but i got some free software for my trouble.

Anyhoo, i treated myself to a chocolate bar (nestle double cream, as usual) after training, as well as one of those new milk/white chocolate Aeros that are currently available. They're well nice.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Whats an Aero?

I Yank, if short for Yankee, generically refers to people from the Northeastern part of the States. In particular, southerners call northerners Yankees -- dated to the civil war. New Yorkers epitomize Yanks in modern times especially since we are home to the New York Yankees.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Everything progressed. Which is ace.

I am ace.

Damn! You keep it up and in a couple of years you'll be lifting the same weights as me!

Posted by: Robboe

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Whats an Aero?

chocolate bar with bubbles of air in it.

Posted by: Yanick

I fuckin love those Aero things. Although they're not called Aero's over here, but its the same concept. Man its my favorite chocolate (not like i would say no to any chocolate that is).

Rob, your shoulders are hella strong! 80's on the shoulder press, thats friggin awesome. I can currently press 50's, maybe. I haven't done presses in a while though.

Posted by: Robboe

Weird how my shoulders are a bit stronger than yours, and yet your bench blows mine away. You must have shorter arms.

Anyhoo, a birthday of a good friend of many years falls on this here day, so a meal followed by clubbing tonight it shall be.

Posted by: kuso

TCD....are you think to volunteer as a tester for 1fast400 this time?

Posted by: Twin Peak

I think Mike asked for people who haven't used PH/PS in a while. Else I would have volunteered myself!

Posted by: kuso

Opps....must have missed that bit.

Posted by: Twin Peak

You should volunteer yourself!

Posted by: kuso

Yeah, but I`ll be off for probably 4 or 5 weeks at Christmas......and can`t take these goddies to Oz...they are very illegal.

The other thing.....I`d like to know what I`m putting into my body.

Posted by: perfecto

everythings illegal here

Posted by: Robboe

Well, by the time he could send anything over here once he's made his descision i'd be off PS for about 4-5 weeks.

I did send a nice little paragraph about how ace i am in general, but i dunno if i said anything about me being ideal for testing some mystery stuff.

I did, however, include the fact that me being abroad may make such a transaction a bit more complicated for him, since he's not gonna actually derive any money out of it.

Maybe he'll appreciate my honesty

I'm not expecting to be selected though.

Posted by: Robboe

Ok, back dayeeeeee.

Progressed on everything, except chins maybe. I wasn;t sure whether i'd get the chinning bar so i did a heavy set of WG pulldowns (and progressed. Ace.), but then the bar was free and so i did some and matched my work sets from two weeks ago. Make of that what you will.

Everything else went up. I weighed myself 4lbs heavier today from last week, but i imagine the water retention from tuesday's semi-piss-up is to blame. I'll re-weight myself on saturday and see.

No cutting till after christmas either. I've got too much on w/ Uni to be concerned about that.

Posted by: Yanick

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
No cutting till after christmas either. I've got too much on w/ Uni to be concerned about that.

I can relate with you on that one Rob.

School has been kicking my ass lately.

Posted by: Robboe

My calories are up and down and all over the place right now.

Some days i'll eat all meals, others i won't.

It's sort of an attempt at damage control during this time period.

Posted by: Twin Peak

So this is a conscious decision of calorie cycling?

Posted by: Robboe

Sort of, yeah.

Chest workout day was awesome. I progressed on every exercise. Every set in fact.

I even did 7 reps on the incline DB's with the 45's! I'm well proud of myself. Hopefully the gym will get some magnetic weights so i can increment the weight slower than 5k per DB (since they jump from 45-50-55-60, and then by 10 per DB after that up to 90). That's a big jump when we're getting that heavy.

Posted by: kuso

Congrats on the progress

How many days on ONE does this make?

Posted by: Robboe

I finsihed up a two week cycle of ONE over two weeks ago haha.

This is all me, baby.

Posted by: kuso

Shit!!!! Thats even better then......are you about to start the second cycle now?

BTW....how long did it take to arrive for you?

Posted by: Robboe

I'm glad you pay attention to this!

I don't think i'll do another cycle till the new year.

And it took about 3-4 days. Very good service from Mike McCandles.

Posted by: kuso

I do most of my reading in the early hours of the morning with full brain fog lol

Anyway, I think your original plan was 2 on 2 off 2 on right? Why the change? Or was that posted already?? lol

I must say this quote from you ""Well, by the time he could send anything over here once he's made his descision i'd be off PS for about 4-5 weeks"" made me wonder. lol

Posted by: Twin Peak

Rob, he's drunk.

Posted by: kuso

Yep....just went through this again and noticed this...which I had read ""Today is the last day of application of this first two week cycle. I'm now gonna spend at least 2 weeks making sure i keep all my gains, via shorter training sessions, lower volume, shy of failure training, EC throughout the day, keeping protein and carbs up (i.e. no low carbs), nicotine gum and extra zinc.""

But can`t find where you decided to cut or not for the 4 weeks

Posted by: Robboe

Nah, i never had a proper plan i was gonna implement. But 2 on, 2 off, 2 on, 4 off, 2 on, 8 off etc.. was a proposed potential plan. At the time it seemed like i was gonna go that route, but i'm in no hurry and other commitments have come up (as expected). And with christmas coming up (during which time i plan on taking a much required week off), i don't see the point.

Yeah, by the time Mike's chosen the testers and shipped out and given instructors, it would be about 4-5 weeks off PS for moi.

Posted by: Robboe

Kuso, i decided, just on wednesday i think, not to bother with the 4 week cut just now cause of University commitments. I'm just doing the sub-concious calorie cycling thing for now.

I may squeeze a short cut in the new year and maybe start a proper cut again sometime afterwards. Maybe around easter time.

Posted by: kuso

I can see that, if your school year is the same as Oz this is the most stressful time for you as it is.

Are you thinking to stake the ONE with anything next time round, or just stick with the 1-T?

Posted by: Robboe

Like what?

4-AD and shit like that?

Nah, i'm not that into all this PS/PH stuff.

1-T was just something i've seen people rave about and wanted to see what all the fuss was about.

At the end of the day, i'm not really big on supplements. This was just an experience i wanted to have.

Posted by: kuso

4-AD was what I was thinking.

It is good to see what the fuss is about though, self experimentation and all.

Posted by: Robboe

Yeah, i'm like that.

If i offer advice to anyone about something i haven't done or tried, i let them know that i have no personal experience with it before telling them my opinion. It's why i don't try and give gear advice. Not to mention the fact that i know very little about gear.

Posted by: kuso

Good to hear! Always good to get advice from someone experienced with the topic, rather than someone who has simply read about it.

lol....not knowing much about it is another good reason not to advise, not that that doesn`t stop some.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Originally posted by kuso
lol....not knowing much about it is another good reason not to advise, not that that doesn`t stop some.

Shit I better stop advising....

Posted by: kuso

Lack of smiles again there TP

Posted by: Twin Peak

I wasn't kidding.

Posted by: kuso

If we are talking PH/PS here ( which I wasn`t really refering to ), seems to me you have about 2 weeks on TCD there.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Experience does not necessarily mean knowledge. OOOHHH, we can have a thread on that!

Posted by: kuso

LOL....haven`t we been there?

Posted by: Yanick

Damn, I thought someone deleted this thread, for a second.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Hey, how did this go back to 11/22? I know there have been posts since....what's going on?

Anyway, Rob, I just reread the beginning since I am trying to plan my cut, both type and timing. Any updates here? Back to lifting yet?

Posted by: Robboe

Started back yesterday.

Three weeks off and the soreness i'm feeling is unreal.

Dropped 8lbs in one week with a stomach bug. All gone now though, thank Christ.

Posted by: Twin Peak

That's been going around here to. Glad to hear you are back. So what are the short term goals, other than just getting back into it? Plan on updating this thing?

Posted by: Robboe

Not in the immediate future. Too much on, and i'm rarely online at the moment.

Just continue what i'm doing until start of february when i'll focus on trimming down i suspect. Nothing planned or set in stone just yet.

Posted by: AgainstAllOdds

So this diet calls for under 20g carbs everyday except for 2 days?

Can you have the carb up days whenever you want--Wouldn't it be best to have it the day of an intense training session and have training days after--just not around off days? Those days have minimal fat and protein right?

But how do you know how much protein and fat to eat on low carb days? How many calories do you shoot for?

And it works for gaining LBM?

I looked at the site, what foods does he say Increase T levels?

And

"How most Americans are systematically, but unknowingly, suppressing growth hormone, the "fountain of youth" hormone! (Considering how profoundly important this hormone is, this piece of information alone makes the Natural Hormonal Enhancement guidebook worth its
weight in gold!).……......................."

*

Why cashews, almonds, peanut butter, and especially walnuts, can be great allies in the fight against bodyfat. (Of course, most Americans are avoiding these foods like the plague due to the hare-brained, low-fat dietary concept that has been foisted on them by the "experts.").....................................se e p. 191

What are those 2 about? I assume the last one is about good fats.

Posted by: AgainstAllOdds

You said you have cottage cheese preworkout, then after that meal you have tuna and oil? So that's protein and fat?

I've heard of that before for postworkout..but why don't you have whey?

Posted by: Robboe

Originally posted by AgainstAllOdds
So this diet calls for under 20g carbs everyday except for 2 days?

The standard is 9 days of <20g carbs/day for the first 9 days. Then 3 days of 20-60g with a carb load in the last one or two meals of the third day followed by 4 days of 20-60g carbs followed by a carb load on the 4th day. And then repeating the 3 day/4 day cycle. So it might look like this:

sun - 20-60g C
mon - 20-60g C
tues - 20-60g C and carb load in evening.
wed - 20-60g C
thur - 20-60g C
fri - 20-60g C
sat - 20-60g C and carb load in evening.

Can you have the carb up days whenever you want--Wouldn't it be best to have it the day of an intense training session and have training days after--just not around off days?

If you do the diet, try both and see which you prefer. Some prefer carb loads the night before a training session whereas others prefer on the night of the workout.

Those days have minimal fat and protein right?

The meals during the days are all the same, only you keep fat minimal during the carb loads themselves. And eat some protein but keep it moderate or else you'll stink and probably feel a bit ill to your gut.

But how do you know how much protein and fat to eat on low carb days? How many calories do you shoot for?

Gonna be different for everyone. I personally start with about 12kcals/lb of bodyweight and then assess how it effects me via energy levels and weekly weight loss. And the mirror of course.

And it works for gaining LBM?

Control calories so that you gain muscle but not too much fat pretty much, yeah. May not be totally 100% lean, but calorie control is the important aspect.

I looked at the site, what foods does he say Increase T levels?

Red meat probably.

And

"How most Americans are systematically, but unknowingly, suppressing growth hormone, the "fountain of youth" hormone! (Considering how profoundly important this hormone is, this piece of information alone makes the Natural Hormonal Enhancement guidebook worth its
weight in gold!).……......................."

*

Why cashews, almonds, peanut butter, and especially walnuts, can be great allies in the fight against bodyfat. (Of course, most Americans are avoiding these foods like the plague due to the hare-brained, low-fat dietary concept that has been foisted on them by the "experts.").....................................se e p. 191

What are those 2 about? I assume the last one is about good fats.

Firstly, he overemphasises hGH.

Secondly, not huge amounts of w-3's in those nuts, but the monounsaturates they yield are good for various stuff.

Posted by: Robboe

Originally posted by AgainstAllOdds
You said you have cottage cheese preworkout, then after that meal you have tuna and oil? So that's protein and fat?

I've heard of that before for postworkout..but why don't you have whey?

I used to drink whey with a tablespoon of whipping cream (the pretty much nil sugar type of cream) in it straight after training.

Posted by: DaMayor

What's this I see? The infamous TCD firing up the old journal again? Sharing his vast dietetic knowledge with a layman?

You should. It'd be cool.

Posted by: Robboe

I would but i rarely get online these days due to work-related long days. But if anyone has any questions i can help with or give insight into any personal experience then i'm more than happy to.

Posted by: DaMayor

Yeah, you've mentioned your busy schedule a few times lately.
Hey, do it when you can, this board could use the insight. No offense to present mods, of course.

(CLICK HERE here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

The NHE and ONE - cut and bulk

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