"To UD or not to UD" [Forum Archive]

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"To UD or not to UD"

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Posted by: jbish8

Has anyone tried the lean mass gain variable of this program? If so how did it work for you, and what were your overall results. The program makes alot of sense to me for cutting, but not so much for bulking. Any input?

Posted by: jbish8

Hmmm... Guess not.

Posted by: kyoun1e

This is a tough one to get answers on. I've asked repeatedly over on Lyle's boards, but it keeps drawing a blank.

I'd like to try it myself after another round of UD2 normal variant.

I have gathered that most prefer conventional bulking methods vs UD2 mass variant primarily because it takes a loooooong time to bulk on this program. I don't think I will mind that since I want to minimize fat gain. Additionally, it's "easier" to use conventional bulking methods vs. using a more rigorous approach like UD2.

If you were to use UD2 I think the greatest lever will be total caloric intake on the low carb/cal days and the maintenance days. For example, instead of cutting calories by 50% on the low days, you probably cut to say 10-20% and then on maintenance days you actually eat at maintenance if not a little above instead of 10-20% below.

All that said, I have yet to run into somebody who has used this version extensively and has spent time tweaking for optimal results. When you find such feedback let me know.

KY

Posted by: jbish8

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

This is a tough one to get answers on. I've asked repeatedly over on Lyle's boards, but it keeps drawing a blank.

I'd like to try it myself after another round of UD2 normal variant.

I have gathered that most prefer conventional bulking methods vs UD2 mass variant primarily because it takes a loooooong time to bulk on this program. I don't think I will mind that since I want to minimize fat gain. Additionally, it's "easier" to use conventional bulking methods vs. using a more rigorous approach like UD2.

If you were to use UD2 I think the greatest lever will be total caloric intake on the low carb/cal days and the maintenance days. For example, instead of cutting calories by 50% on the low days, you probably cut to say 10-20% and then on maintenance days you actually eat at maintenance if not a little above instead of 10-20% below.

All that said, I have yet to run into somebody who has used this version extensively and has spent time tweaking for optimal results. When you find such feedback let me know.

KY

Thanks for the input. I think I've decided to do a more conventional bulk while incorporating SOME of the UD2 methods, such as the calorie cycling but not the decreased carbs. For example: I would eat 20% more than maintenance on workout days (4 per week) and then eat 10% less with a little cardio on off days (3 per week). I've heard that this method can help reduce the amount of fat gain without slowing lean mass gain too much. For me, I think cutting out the carbs at only 10% of maintenance wouldn't do anything, because I would still be getting plenty even at 20% (150-200 grams) of total caloric intake to keep my glycogen stores full, so IMO it would cancel out the benefits that you get running the normal UD2. Also I don't think the depletion workouts are the best kind for bulking. Even Lyle himself insinuates that the low carb portion of the diet starts your body into a catabolic state, or at the least keeps it from being anabolic, and with lean mass gain being as hard as it is already, I don't think it would be efficient to help your body stop being anabolic (more than it naturally does). I figure I'll keep the carbs around 40% so that I will keep as much energy as possible for my workouts. I also think my body will respond better to the cut if I haven't already been using the same macro ratios as my bulk. I'll let ya know how it works, and anyone's input on my "theory" is welcome.

Posted by: nkira

jbish8, Wait for built, you'll get some solid answers.

Posted by: jbish8

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkira

jbish8, Wait for built, you'll get some solid answers.

Will do. I'd love to hear what she thinks.

Posted by: kyoun1e

I think most of what you outline are additional reasons why people seem to avoid UD2 mass version.

That said, if you're interested in slooooowww bulk with minimal fat gain it seems like the way to go. The depletion workouts sure seem counterproductive, but on the flip side it prepares the body to partition calories towards muscle once you start to move towards the growth phase of the week.

KY

Posted by: jbish8

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

I think most of what you outline are additional reasons why people seem to avoid UD2 mass version.

That said, if you're interested in slooooowww bulk with minimal fat gain it seems like the way to go. The depletion workouts sure seem counterproductive, but on the flip side it prepares the body to partition calories towards muscle once you start to move towards the growth phase of the week.

KY

I know what you're saying, but for me it just makes more sense to gain a bit faster with a little bit of fat, but then just cut as soon as you hit a certain point (obviously different for everyone).

For example: I'm 164 and 7% BF. If my goal is to be 170 @ 7% BF and I bulked using the UD method, and assuming the theory that LBM can only be gained at a rate of max. 1/2 lb per week, and assuming my theory described earlier (you'd only be anabolic at most three days out of every seven) is correct than one could only expect to gain just under 1/4 lb of LBM per week at best. This means I would hit 170 in about 6 months and assuming I gained no fat would have reached my goal.

Now let's say I gained 1lb of fat for every 2 lbs of LBM (I believe this is pretty typical and infact on my last bulk I did a bit better than this.)I gain going with a more conventional method. Assuming the same standards as the first example but staying anabolic, I would hit 173 but with 3lbs of excess fat in about 3 months. Then using UD2 to cut and assuming you don't lose any LBM (which is what the claims are), you would reach the same goal in 3 1/2 to 4 months total (assuming losing around LB per week).

So that's where I'm coming from, however I realize this is all just speculation and theory, and from my experience so far, the body has a way of completely blowing my theories out of the water, so all I can do is experiment (and listen to others experiences). Hopefully Built will have something to add on this matter.

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