Why Nice Guys Finish Last [Forum Archive]

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Why Nice Guys Finish Last

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Posted by: min0 lee

Why Nice Guys Finish Last - ABC News

New Research Points to Biological Reason Why Girls Like Bad Boys

By AUDREY GRAYSON
ABC News Medical Unit
June 19, 2008—

Ricky Menezes, a 22-year-old from Marlborough, Mass., says he knows he will hook up with "about 20 girls" in the next month.

How does he know this, you ask? Ricky knows this because he's what we call a "bad boy" -- the type of guy who knows exactly how to act, what to say and how to manipulate women into giving him what he wants.

"It all started in high school," Ricky said. "I started being the outgoing, crazy, funny kid that everyone thought was fun and wanted to hang out with."

After being validated by his peers in high school, Ricky said he has more or less mastered the art of being a bad boy, and has done so with one overriding goal in mind -- sexual conquest.

"I don't pretend to be anything I'm not," Ricky said. "I'm honest and outspoken. I say that I'm just looking to hook up. ... I'm not afraid to go for it, and I rarely get rejected.

"Oh, and I'm in a band. You have to be in a band. Girls love guys in bands," he added.

Most everyone knows -- or at least knows of -- a stereotypical "bad boy" like Ricky. The guy with such high self-esteem he could aptly be called a narcissist. The guy who wins women over with deceit, callousness and impulsive behavior. Basically, the type of guy who resembles a real-life version of Hugh Grant's character in "Bridget Jones' Diary."

The success of Ricky and so many other "bad boys" with women seems to add weight to the popular saying "good guys finish last."

And there might be more than just a grain of truth in these mantras about bad boys; new research suggests they might actually be attracting more women than their "nicer" counterparts.

The Positive Side of Negative Traits

Researchers at New Mexico State University in Las Cruces gave 200 college students personality tests to see how many of what psychologists call "dark triad traits" they possessed. These traits include callousness, impulsive behavior, extroversion, narcissism and various other anti-social traits for which "bad boys" are known.

The researchers also asked about the student's sex lives, their feelings about sexual relationships, their number of sexual partners, and what they are seeking in sexual or romantic relationships.

According to Peter Jonason, lead study investigator, although society tends to look down upon these "negative" dark triad personality traits, there seems to be quite an upside to being a bad boy.

"We would traditionally consider these dark triad traits to be adverse personality traits, and we think women would avoid these kinds of men, but what we show is counterintuitive -- that women are attracted to these bad boys and they do pretty well in terms of sheer numbers of sexual partners," Jonason explained. "They're taking quantity over quality as their sexual agenda, being serially monogamous and having multiple partners or one-night stands."

Jonason compared the type of "dark triad bad boy" that the study refers to as a modern-day James Bond figure -- a man with little empathy for others, a penchant for fast cars and even faster women, and a seeker of short-term rather than long-term goals -- especially concerning the opposite sex.

And because these characters appear in this study to be successful at achieving their short-term goals -- which, in this case, is a short-term sexual relationship -- Jonason believes such character traits have persevered in so many people because they seem to be evolutionarily successful.

"Dark triad traits are useful in pursuing our agendas at any given time," Jonason explained. "If you like someone and want to meet them and date them, people who have the dark triad traits appear to be more successful at facilitating short-term mating."

Jonason validated this point with a comparison to the popular VH1 show "The Pick-Up Artist," wherein nerdy, nice guys meet with a typical bad boy to learn how to pick up more of these dark triad traits -- and also more women.

Nice Guys Win in the End

But some experts say it might not be so simple.

Heather Rupp, a research fellow at the Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender and Reproduction, believes that the reason women may be drawn toward the "bad boys" is more because of physiology more than psychology.

"I think it goes back to the physiological underpinnings of such an attraction," Rupp said. "For instance, testosterone is a hormone that in men is linked to more dominant personality traits -- outgoing personalities and charm and things like that. And men with higher testosterone are rated by independent observers as being more outgoing and charming than others."

Some experts, however, believe that these narcissistic males tend to embellish the self-reported tales of their own sexual conquest, leading others to believe they are more sexually successful than they really are.

"People high in dark triad traits tend to say what they think others want to hear," said Everett Worthington, professor of psychology at Virginia Commonwealth University.

Moreover, Worthington notes that while some of these males may be more successful at short-term sexual relationships, their overall success with long-term relationships is often compromised by their dark triad traits.

"The manipulative 'It's all about me, so tell 'em anything to get sex' behavior is likely to have more short-term sexual success," Worthington said. "A strategy of building trust and intimacy and commitment is, by nature, going to take longer. Thus, the payoffs are likely to be greater in the short term. However, long-term relationship survival is likely to be strongly disadvantaged in people with dark triad traits."

So maybe good guys don't always finish last.

Posted by: tomuchgear

i call bs good guys get nailed in the end. doesnt freakin matter. well maybe i am just a bit biased currently.

Posted by: thegoodstuffguy

exciting guys get the girls, unless they're damaged.

The problem is styaying exciting once the honeymoon period wears off. girls will hook up with you for the funa nd adventure, but will only stay with you if you're a genuinely decent guy as well, or if you're crushed her spirit so she's affraid to leave 9in which case you're an ass).

So there's the challenge. Get the girl with the exciting, dangerous, bad boy traits, and somehow keep some of those traits while also gaining decent respect building traitts like honesty and loyalty.

tough balancing act - I recomend drugs and alcohol to assist so niether of you care as much while you just fuck each others brains out.

Posted by: IronAddict

sorry, the buff kid always gets the girl...

Posted by: KelJu

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronAddict

sorry, the buff kid always gets the girl...

This picture sums it up.

Posted by: thegoodstuffguy

Particularly if the alternative is a whiney looking, crying sad sack of shit like in this pic....

Posted by: T_man

haha

buff guys don't get the girls.

it's looks first if it's about vanity. then body comes next. and not too buffed either, athletic bodies. The too buff look is gross to women, only men and fellow body building females really appreciate the physique of mr olympia types.

looks & excitement/charisma = any girl.

usually excitement goes with the "bad boy" types, as they do things that are really spontaneous and shocking, but i know many guys who are nice in a way but are just charismatic and good looking who get even better girls.

Posted by: IronAddict

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_man

haha

buff guys don't get the girls.

it's looks first if it's about vanity. then body comes next. and not too buffed either, athletic bodies. The too buff look is gross to women, only men and fellow body building females really appreciate the physique of mr olympia types.

looks & excitement/charisma = any girl.

usually excitement goes with the "bad boy" types, as they do things that are really spontaneous and shocking, but i know many guys who are nice in a way but are just charismatic and good looking who get even better girls.

So T, would these two be considered exciting and spontaneous !?

Posted by: T_man

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronAddict

So T, would these two be considered exciting and spontaneous !?

I can't see the image. I only know theres an image because when I quote u it has an image attachement code. It's probably a good thing I can't see it actually.

I was also going to add though, as you get older, it's the nicer ones or rich ones who win out in the end because the bad boys are only good for a short while and cannot sustain in the long run.

Posted by: awhites1

it depends really on what you consider coming in first or last is? there is no first or last really. if you want to get laid and you do you win. if you want a girl and she wants someone else but they dont want her so she comes back to you...you win. anyways. women are whores so thats all i really have to say. i love em. dont get me wrong. i just never forget that

Posted by: IronAddict

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_man

Ahh, that's too bad.

It's just two orangutans and a young pretty blond sitting on a bench with one groping the girl and the other is just laughing his ass off, very smart creatures.

Posted by: fufu

Nice guys don't finish last, push-overs finish last.

For many people, a nice guy and a push-over are synonymous.

So called nice guys are "nice" guys because they have no personal conviction, they don't put themselves first, they put everyone else first and have no real sense of self, at least in social situations. In social situations, nice guys have no individual presence, they aren't a "person". Their opinion and actions adapt to the opinion and actions of whoever they are around.

People find them "nice" because they go through the path of least resistance, they agree with everything and never try to be abrasive.

What girl wants to date someone who is just a transparent extension of their own self?

Posted by: T_man

deep

Posted by: IronAddict

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_man

deep

Hahaha........!

Posted by: HialeahChico305

Quote:

Originally Posted by awhites1

it depends really on what you consider coming in first or last is? there is no first or last really. if you want to get laid and you do you win. if you want a girl and she wants someone else but they dont want her so she comes back to you...you win. anyways. women are whores so thats all i really have to say. i love em. dont get me wrong. i just never forget that

lol most women are, but there are some good loyal women out there. that species of women is becoming extinct though. life is still good as long as you dont get attached.

Posted by: T_man

Quote:

Originally Posted by HialeahChico305

lol most women are, but there are some good loyal women out there. that species of women is becoming extinct though. life is still good as long as you dont get attached.

woh thats it

Posted by: Newt

Women want someone that they know can take care of them. Deep down, they dont want someone to go shopping with, they want a guy that will beat another mans ass for any reason she wants. They dont just want to feel cared about but to feel safe and cared about.

Posted by: ROID

I can get any girl I want ; whenever I want.

Posted by: Robert

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROID

I can get any girl I want ; whenever I want.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROID

I can get any girl I want ; whenever I want.

Dude....family doesn't count.

Posted by: Gazhole

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

Nice guys don't finish last, push-overs finish last.

For many people, a nice guy and a push-over are synonymous.

So called nice guys are "nice" guys because they have no personal conviction, they don't put themselves first, they put everyone else first and have no real sense of self, at least in social situations. In social situations, nice guys have no individual presence, they aren't a "person". Their opinion and actions adapt to the opinion and actions of whoever they are around.

People find them "nice" because they go through the path of least resistance, they agree with everything and never try to be abrasive.

What girl wants to date someone who is just a transparent extension of their own self?

fufucious has spoken.

Damn true though, i hate people who agree with me ALL the time. Sure you're going to agree on some things otherwise you wouldn't hang out, but you've gotta disagree on just enough for their company not to resemble talking at yourself in the mirror.

I disagree with myself more than some people i know disagree with me.

Posted by: danzik17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazhole

That's called schizophrenia. Also I don't really know how to break this you........

your alter ego cheated on you with a horse.

Posted by: bonnykaul

Very good article. But I'll say that not what happen all the time. It's just a matter of your techniques and experienced

Posted by: AskinsCG

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegoodstuffguy

tough balancing act - I recomend drugs and alcohol to assist so niether of you care as much while you just fuck each others brains out.

Maybe alcohol for HER, every guy here knows what happens when you're flat fucking wasted and she wants sex...things don't preform.

Posted by: jordibwoy

I'm a nice guy who ALWAYS finishes last, if you know what I mean

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordibwoy

I'm a nice guy who ALWAYS finishes last, if you know what I mean

Your always get stuck in the rear? Yo go boy-girl.

Posted by: FMJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Gaz, when you're right, you're right. I agree with you 100% !

Posted by: Hoglander

"Ferociously nice" Finish at the same time with who they choose to to take under their wing.

Posted by: sprayherup

It doesn't matter what kind of guy you are. Women are all whores anyway. Just worry about yourself and do what you want.

Posted by: Hoglander

That's what I'm talking about. A women or girl should feel safe. There should be no limit for what a man would do for his women to make her feel safe from assholes.

Posted by: e2ksj3

Well this explains a lot...

Posted by: davidone

interesting point!!!!

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