Keeping Gains Post Cycle [Forum Archive]

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Keeping Gains Post Cycle

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Posted by: Rucker

Dear Elite Members,

Keeping gains Post Cycle with the Natural Anabolic Fenugreek

What’s one of the most difficult things about coming off a cycle, even when you have proper post cycle therapy?

Maintaining the size and strength gains.

If you just came off of anabolic steroids then you probably saw some fairly impressive muscle gains. When dropping from such a powerful muscle building steroid to nothing at all it is nearly impossible to maintain these gains. Most post cycle therapy regimes don’t include products to maintain muscle gains, only products to rejuvenate natural testosterone production. It is nearly impossible to preserve these types of gains without proper muscle building supplements. Fenugreek extract has been shown to mimic the effects of anabolic steroids and free up bound testosterone but is a natural ingredient that is in no way suppressive to testosterone production.

What this means is that someone could supplement fenugreek extract while on post cycle therapy to help maintain, and possibly increase, muscle gains while in a less than ideal physical and mental state for building muscle.

The only fenugreek extract that has ever been proven to enhance muscle gain and free test levels in humans is Testofen (standardized for 50% fenusides). (1) Phyto-Testosterone includes a full clinically effective dose of 800mg.

Keep your gains during post cycle therapy with Phyto-Testosterone – a natural muscle building supplement.

Jim Benvie,
Primordial Performance Marketing

Questions?

Phone – 1-800-568-2924
Email - info@primordialperformance.com
Visit - Primordial Performance

References – 1. Human Clinical Trial

Gencor Pacific, Inc. (2006)

Posted by: Rucker

Has anyone tried this as a way to keep gains post cycle?

Posted by: juggernaut

Rucker, please show the actual laboratory abstract where this was done and all the details of how the conclusions came about.

Posted by: juggernaut

still waiting.

Posted by: juggernaut

A jug of protein says this study is a paid lab study, or the fucking doesn't exist.

Posted by: juggernaut

AGAIN: "Rucker, please show the actual laboratory abstract where this was done and all the details of how the conclusions came about."

Feel like I'm pulling teeth out of a shark.

Posted by: Rucker

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

A jug of protein says this study is a paid lab study, or the fucking doesn't exist.

I believe it is a paid lab study, I'm trying to find it right now. I thought I had it in our system, but I might only have a hard copy. Why are you being so abrasive?

Posted by: Rucker

Here it is:

Human Clinical Trial
Gencor Pacific, Inc. (2006)

Posted by: juggernaut

Abrasive? Me? Say it aint so.
Ill peer over the "lab study" and gladly comment.

Posted by: juggernaut

So I had a friend (whom is quite legitimate in the field) look at the "lab study" and just as I thought, your case review is flawed. Come on, caliper measurements in a study is laughable. DEXA anyone??
I'm not going to bash you or your company, but seriously, any valid study wouldnt have the debatable issues you have in your situation. Redo it to make yourselves look good.

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

So I had a friend (whom is quite legitimate in the field) look at the "lab study" and just as I thought, your case review is flawed. Come on, caliper measurements in a study is laughable. DEXA anyone??
I'm not going to bash you or your company, but seriously, any valid study wouldnt have the debatable issues you have in your situation. Redo it to make yourselves look good.

Doing our own clinical trial would take about 18 months and it would cost us well over 100k. It just isn’t feasible for a small company like ourselves so we use the best research we’ve got available. Plus, we would hate to fund a study and have people call bogus on our company funded study! (like everybody seems to do no mater what the parameters are)

Anyway, we’ve had this product on the market for a couple years and people have always reported good results. I’ll see if I can find some logs.

-Eric

Posted by: juggernaut

So Pubmed wouldn't count as truth if you relate the actual products you use in it? Certainly a lot more believable than a flawed paid study, wouldnt you think?

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

So Pubmed wouldn't count as truth if you relate the actual products you use in it? Certainly a lot more believable than a flawed paid study, wouldnt you think?

Not exactly sure what you're saying here. Everybody scrutinizes and cry's foul on an internally funded study.

Posted by: Pirate!

Why are you making an issue of this, juggernaut?
If you don't think it's a worthy product, why not just stay away? This is a pretty standup company. Not all supplements can be backed by clinical studies.

Testofen has some positive anecdotal history.

Posted by: llllern

I tried Toco 8 with my M14add cycle a while back and was very pleased

Posted by: juggernaut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate!

Why are you making an issue of this, juggernaut?
If you don't think it's a worthy product, why not just stay away? This is a pretty standup company. Not all supplements can be backed by clinical studies.

Testofen has some positive anecdotal history.

No issues being made. Just some ballsy statements being made in the advertisement and I wanted to see how much they've been truly studied. Simple curiosity. I cant be curious?

Posted by: Primordial

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

No issues being made. Just some ballsy statements being made in the advertisement and I wanted to see how much they've been truly studied. Simple curiosity. I cant be curious?

Here is the animal study that showed the fenugreek mimicking the effects of testosterone. (I just realized rucker posted the human study) -

http://www.primordialperformance.com...al%20study.pdf

There is research on methoxyisoflavone having similar effects too (non-androgenic) but its all patent stuff.

-Eric

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Keeping Gains Post Cycle

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