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3 nutrition questions!

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Posted by: k.smith.4

Hi, I'm trying to bulk. I've read quite a few stickies about nutrition for gaining muscles and I still have three particular questions:

1.) Calories vs. Macros
It often happens in the afternoon that I'm still in calorie deficit, meaning I still need to consume about 600 calories and I often don't have the right foods to attain desired macro percentage. Is it ok to get the remaining calories from foods like bread, oatmeal, etc? I mean, is the surplus of calories more important than the right macros (protein/carbohydrate/fat %)?

2.) Healthy & unhealthy fats
I read that fats are important in muscle building nutrition. I get some fat from foods like pork, beef, yoghurt, milk - this is unhealthy fat, but you can't avoid it. Now is it really essential that on top of that I add all these sources of healthy fat (nuts and oils) in my meal plan?

3.) Types of simple carbohydrates.
Right after the workout you should eat some simple carbohydrates. Ok, that means fruits, but could you also eat some sweets or dessert? I mean, they are simple carbohydrates too...

Thanks for your answers!


Posted by: twarrior

This should be your first stop to find answers to your questions.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/ne...1-newbies.html

Then go here .
Got Built? » The “Do It Yourself” Diet – Comfort food for life.

I still refer to these all the time as I'm sure many other do as well. Good luck.


Posted by: dave 236

Yep can't go wrong with Built


Posted by: k.smith.4

I've already read all this and none of it answered my questions. I believe I know the basics about muscle building nutrition - the questions I asked are very specific.


Posted by: Marat

Quote Originally Posted by k.smith.4 View Post

1.) Calories vs. Macros
It often happens in the afternoon that I'm still in calorie deficit, meaning I still need to consume about 600 calories and I often don't have the right foods to attain desired macro percentage. Is it ok to get the remaining calories from foods like bread, oatmeal, etc? I mean, is the surplus of calories more important than the right macros (protein/carbohydrate/fat %)?
As long as you get your ~1g/lb protein and ~0.5g/lb fat in, the remainder of the calories can be made up however you'd like ( i.e. calories from the foods that you mentioned are fine).

Quote Originally Posted by k.smith.4 View Post
2.) Healthy & unhealthy fats
I read that fats are important in muscle building nutrition. I get some fat from foods like pork, beef, yoghurt, milk - this is unhealthy fat, but you can't avoid it. Now is it really essential that on top of that I add all these sources of healthy fat (nuts and oils) in my meal plan?
Saturated fat is very necessary and shouldn't be avoided. However, your intake of it should be controlled --- about 25g/day or so is adequate. The remainder of your fat intake should be mainly monounsaturated and polyunsaturated sources (e.g. nuts, oils, salmon, avocados, etc.).

Quote Originally Posted by k.smith.4 View Post
3.) Types of simple carbohydrates.
Right after the workout you should eat some simple carbohydrates. Ok, that means fruits, but could you also eat some sweets or dessert? I mean, they are simple carbohydrates too...
That's fine as long as you account for the other macronutrients. Keep in mind that you don't want to go overboard with the fructose intake. A little bit a day (under 50g is usually mentioned) is fine, but one would benefit by keeping fructose intake low.


Posted by: k.smith.4

Thanks for your answers , m11! You really cleared things up!


Posted by: ceazur

Quote Originally Posted by k.smith.4 View Post
Thanks for your answers , m11! You really cleared things up!
m11 gets all of his knowledge from me.. he just takes the credit.


Posted by: Marat

Quote Originally Posted by ceazur View Post
m11 gets all of his knowledge from me.. he just takes the credit.
Shhhh you're supposed to keep that on the low


Posted by: downtown

Well if your bulking then i think your over thinking it. I follow very simple rules while bulking.

Rule 1: Never consume carbs without protien a minimum of 1:2 ratio 1 bing protien 2 being carbs

Rule 2: Dont go over 3 hours without eating.

Rule 3: Stay away from processed crap.

The simpler you keep it the more likely you are to stick with it. I read the nutritional break down of all my foods, but stable protien/carb intake is more important to me while bulking. I also take fish oil with 3 of my meals. I hope this helps.


Posted by: Marat

Quote Originally Posted by downtown View Post
Rule 1: Never consume carbs without protien a minimum of 1:2 ratio 1 bing protien 2 being carbs
This is a matter of preference. Although consuming protein with every meal improves satiety and isn't a bad guideline, it certainly shouldn't be passed off as a rule.
Quote Originally Posted by downtown View Post
Rule 2: Dont go over 3 hours without eating.
Again, preference not a rule. The typical counter-response to permitting one to allow more than 3 hours (or four or five or six) to elapse between meals is that the body will begin to catabolize it's own muscle tissue. However, that claim is unsubstantiated by evidence.

Quote Originally Posted by downtown View Post

The simpler you keep it the more likely you are to stick with it. I read the nutritional break down of all my foods, but stable protien/carb intake is more important to me while bulking. I also take fish oil with 3 of my meals. I hope this helps.
I'm agree with all this.


Posted by: downtown

M11, these are just rulez that i stick by while bulking and they have brought me great success. The reason for the 1:2 ratio concerning protien and carbs, It keeps me from getting fat, simple as that. I bulk at 6000+ cals so i sometimes get up to 12% but i try to maintain around 10%.

The second rule is kinda hard not to agree with, if your bulking then you should be eating WAY above maintainence, which will most likely require more than 2-3 feedings a day. Also i dont see why having a constant flow of protien and carbs can NOT help the bulking process, your trying to grow after all. Also eating more frequently increases your metabolic rate ( if your diets in check).


Posted by: ceazur

Quote Originally Posted by downtown View Post
The second rule is kinda hard not to agree with, if your bulking then you should be eating WAY above maintainence, which will most likely require more than 2-3 feedings a day. Also i dont see why having a constant flow of protien and carbs can NOT help the bulking process, your trying to grow after all. Also eating more frequently increases your metabolic rate ( if your diets in check).
I always figured the thought of eating 2 - 3 hours was was applied to losing weight and keeping the metabolism going. I thought in gaining it was all about the amount of cals takin in compared to burned, therefor 5000 calories at breakfast and not eating for the rest of the day was the same as 1000 cals 5 times a day.. Correct me if im wrong, just what I thought, please master m11, educate me..


Posted by: Marat

Quote Originally Posted by downtown View Post
M11, these are just rulez that i stick by while bulking and they have brought me great success. The reason for the 1:2 ratio concerning protien and carbs,
I think you were successful with it because they are pretty good ideas to follow. The only message that I'm trying to get across is that one can be successful without following any of the recommendations that you've mentioned ---- meaning that they are just preferential and if one wants to eat once a day or have a bagel for breakfast, they can still be successful.

Quote Originally Posted by downtown View Post
The second rule is kinda hard not to agree with, if your bulking then you should be eating WAY above maintainence, which will most likely require more than 2-3 feedings a day.
Yea, one probably will. Especially if we are talking something along the order of 6000 or 8000+ calories. It's just a matter of logistics in that case. However, if one wants to eat all those calories in three meals, then they are free to do so. Ceazur explained why here:
Quote Originally Posted by ceazur View Post
I thought in gaining it was all about the amount of cals takin in compared to burned, therefor 5000 calories at breakfast and not eating for the rest of the day was the same as 1000 cals 5 times a day

Finally, the concept of 'keeping the furnace burning' or 'speeding up the metabolism' or anything along those lines is unsubstantiated by any sort of evidence. Actually, not quite --- frequently it seems that the evidence is misinterpreted. Are you familiar with the Thermic Effect of Food? Basically, when your body takes in food, it needs to invest energy to break it down. Think of this as creating a fire to break apart the food molecules. If you put in a little bit of food, it creates a small fire. And conversely, a lot of food creates a big fire. However, the same amount of 'fire' is ultimately created at the end of the day as long as the amount of intake is the same. As a result, people misinterpret that eating frequently allows more calories to be burned through Thermic Effect. Another portion of that argument is that your body needs a 'steady stream of nutrients' or something like that. But I can't even approach that properly. It's just not true. There's no evidence to substantiate that. If you PM me, I can provide you with a resource that can better explain some of these concepts if you aren't convinced.



All in all, I'm trying to paint a complete picture. I think that a major problem of the diet industry is the inability to adapt to a variety of dieters. Again, this is probably a matter of logistics. If authors wrote their books to cover everyone, they'd be too long for people to read. Therefore blanket statements are created such as "eat every three hours". For the majority of people, eating more often curbs appetites and gives the appearnce that they are getting in a lot of food -- especially on a cut. However, this may not always be comfortable of feasible. While eating 5 times a day may work for you, downtown. It may not work for others. Ceazur's marine training may only allow him to eat a huge breakfast and only a snack during his busy day, and a huge dinner afterwards ---something like that. Both of you can be equally successful utilizing both meal frequencies. While you, downtown, certainly made reasonable recommendations (if all dieters followed those tips, many of them will probably be acceptable), those recommendations may close the door to other dieters, and I'm just trying to keep it open but providing all the options.


Posted by: ceazur

A regular Da Vinci you are m11.


Posted by: pitbullguy0101

so much knowledge


Posted by: pitbullguy0101

looks good


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3 nutrition questions!


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