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Bad American

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Posted by: ZECH

I think this has been posted before, but damn this is so true!
I love it!!

I'm a Bad American. This pretty much sums it up for me. I like big trucks, big boats, big houses, and naturally, pretty women.

I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some midlevel governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies.

I don't care about appearing compassionate.

I think playing with toy guns doesn't make you a killer. I believe ignoring your kids and giving them Prozac might.

I think I'm doing better than the homeless.

I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized. I have the right not to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird or make me mad. This is my life to live, and not necessarily up to others expectations. I know what SEX is and there are not varying degrees of it.

I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. But if you want to that's fine; I just don't feel like everyone else should have to.

I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, a pack of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English. As of matter of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English. My uncles and forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it.

I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop'in English, see the previous line.

I don't use the excuse "it's for the children" as a shield for unpopular opinions or actions.

I know how to count votes and I feel much safer letting a machine with no political affiliation do a recount when needed. I know what the definition of lying is, and it isn't based on the word "is"-ever.
I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you qualify for any special loan programs, gov't sponsored bank loans, etc., so you can open a hotel, 7-Eleven, trinket shop, or any thing else, while the indigenous peoples can't get past a high school education because they can't afford it.

I didn't take the initiative in inventing the Internet. I thought the Taco Bell dog was funny.

I want them to bring back safe and sane fireworks.

I believe no one ever died because of something Ozzy Osbourne, Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang, but that doesn't mean I want to listen to that crap from someone else's car when I'm stopped at a red light. But I respect your right to.

I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack In The Box.

I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words light, lite or fat-free on the package.

Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead of anyone today, and they meant what they said - now leave the document alone, or there's going to be trouble.

I don't hate the rich. I help the poor. I know wrestling is fake. I've never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our forefathers weren't wealthy enough to own one either. Please stop blaming me because some prior white people were idiots - and remember, tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too - it was wrong for every one of them.

I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.

I want to know exactly which church is it where the "Reverend" Jessie Jackson preaches; and, what exactly is his job function.

I own a gun, you can own a gun, and any red blooded American should be allowed to own a gun, but if you use it in a crime, then you will serve the time.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it makes you mad, then invent the next operating system that's better and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to help you.

I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Even suggesting it makes me mad. You're telling me that someone who is a minority, gay, disabled, another nationality, or otherwise different from the mainstream of this country has more value as a human being that I do as a white male. If someone kills anyone, I'd say that it's a hate crime. We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already have.

I think turkey bacon, turkey beef, turkey fake anything sucks. I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child-it takes a parent with the guts to stand up to the kid and spank his butt and say "NO!" when it's necessary to do so.

I'll admit that the only movie that ever made me cry was Ole Yeller.

I didn't realize Dr. Seuss was a genius until I had a kid.

I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought this country allowed me that right. I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings. I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.

Yes, I guess by some people's definition, I may be a bad American.

But that's tough.




Posted by: ALBOB

Originally posted by dg806 I'll admit that the only movie that ever made me cry was Ole Yeller.
I agree with everything except this. I cried when Stallone wrecked that '50 Merc in Cobra.



Posted by: butterfly

MY faves...
Originally posted by dg806
I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some midlevel governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies.

I think playing with toy guns doesn't make you a killer. I believe ignoring your kids and giving them Prozac might.

I know what SEX is and there are not varying degrees of it.

I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. But if you want to that's fine; I just don't feel like everyone else should have to.

I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, a pack of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English. As of matter of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English. My uncles and forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it.

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you qualify for any special loan programs, gov't sponsored bank loans, etc., so you can open a hotel, 7-Eleven, trinket shop, or any thing else, while the indigenous peoples can't get past a high school education because they can't afford it.

I believe no one ever died because of something Ozzy Osbourne, Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang, but that doesn't mean I want to listen to that crap from someone else's car when I'm stopped at a red light. But I respect your right to.

Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead of anyone today, and they meant what they said - now leave the document alone, or there's going to be trouble.

I don't hate the rich. I help the poor. I know wrestling is fake.

I've never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our forefathers weren't wealthy enough to own one either. Please stop blaming me because some prior white people were idiots - and remember, tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too - it was wrong for every one of them.

I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude. **AMEN!!!

I want to know exactly which church is it where the "Reverend" Jessie Jackson preaches; and, what exactly is his job function.

I own a gun, you can own a gun, and any red blooded American should be allowed to own a gun, but if you use it in a crime, then you will serve the time.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it makes you mad, then invent the next operating system that's better and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to help you.

I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Even suggesting it makes me mad. You're telling me that someone who is a minority, gay, disabled, another nationality, or otherwise different from the mainstream of this country has more value as a human being that I do as a white male. If someone kills anyone, I'd say that it's a hate crime. We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already have.

I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought this country allowed me that right. I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings. I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.




Posted by: DFINEST

Originally posted by dg806

I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. But if you want to that's fine; I just don't feel like everyone else should have to.

I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.

I want to know exactly which church is it where the "Reverend" Jessie Jackson preaches; and, what exactly is his job function.

I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Even suggesting it makes me mad. You're telling me that someone who is a minority, gay, disabled, another nationality, or otherwise different from the mainstream of this country has more value as a human being that I do as a white male. If someone kills anyone, I'd say that it's a hate crime. We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already have.

I think turkey bacon, turkey beef, turkey fake anything sucks. I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child-it takes a parent with the guts to stand up to the kid and spank his butt and say "NO!" when it's necessary to do so.

I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought this country allowed me that right. I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings. I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.

Yes, I guess by some people's definition, I may be a bad American.

But that's tough.


You're not a bad AMERICAN by any stretch of one's imagination....

I don't celebrate KWANZAA either, nor do I celebrate HANNUKAH or halloween.....

I believe a SELF righteous, stone throwing conservative republican, with a cause, who resides in a glass house with dirty windows is even MORE dangerous....

JESSE JACKSON serves the same GOD as the child RAPING catholic priest serve; at least JESSE picked on someone his own age....

I encourage hate crime legislation; I don't recall any WHITE males that were sitting in RYDER moving trucks randomly being assaulted after TIMOTHY McVEIGH blew up the federal building in OKLAHOMA.....

I love turkey bacon, sausage, jerky,.....

Parents NEED TO DISCIPLINE THEIR BAD A$$ kids and not
get angry with me when I place their kid's A$$ under arrest for breaking the law...

I DON'T nor WILL I EVER frown upon you, look down on you or ASK that you remain silent on your opinions; I am a veteran and am DAMN proud of it; I've trained for the opportunity to defend your's, mine and OUR right to voice OUR belief's.



Posted by: Prince

Originally posted by dg806
I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack In The Box.
Excellent, except this one.



Posted by: ALBOB

Originally posted by Prince
Excellent, except this one.
What's wrong with this one Prince?



Posted by: ZECH

.



Posted by: firestorm

I loved it. Good work DG. you made me stand up and salute.



Posted by: heeholler

Kinda sounds like me before the world got politically correctv. I am not "bad " by tough guy standards but agree with a lot of what was said...



Posted by: firestorm

All I know is my big mouth always gets me into trouble.



Posted by: kbm8795

Originally posted by dg806
I think this has been posted before, but damn this is so true!
I love it!!

I'm a Bad American. This pretty much sums it up for me. I like big trucks, big boats, big houses, and naturally, pretty women.

I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some midlevel governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies. - --- but I'll gladly donate it to rebuild occupied countries while bridges and community superstructure crumbles in my hometown and my state is on the verge of bankruptcy.

I don't care about appearing compassionate. --- aww nonsense...it's better to appear being compassionate than to actually have to be so...

I think playing with toy guns doesn't make you a killer. I believe ignoring your kids and giving them Prozac might. --- Totally agree here, unless you play toy guns with the kids and teach them how to point them at minorities and pretend to shoot.

I think I'm doing better than the homeless.---- a lot of Americans are only a couple of paychecks away from being one of the homeless.

I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized. I have the right not to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird or make me mad. This is my life to live, and not necessarily up to others expectations. I know what SEX is and there are not varying degrees of it. --- Of course, this is okay as long as you get to be the victimizer. I'm glad you know what SEX is and that there can't be any varying degrees of it.....for YOU.

I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. But if you want to that's fine; I just don't feel like everyone else should have to. ---nope, don't celebrate it either, nor Hanukkah.

I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, a pack of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English. As of matter of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English. My uncles and forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it. - - - Sociolological research believes that it takes 2-3 generations for people who settle from another country to become assimilated into a culture. Go to any big city and you'll still find enclaves of Ukranians, Italians, Poles and other white groups who has older members still struggling with English. These are the people who helped settle the country and provided labor - but you are right about one thing - in the past, there wasn't much accommodation - they were ostracized, fought among themselves, delegated to lower paying jobs and often denied access to voting and holding public office.

I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop'in English, see the previous line. ---- breaking the law is just that.

I don't use the excuse "it's for the children" as a shield for unpopular opinions or actions.

I know how to count votes and I feel much safer letting a machine with no political affiliation do a recount when needed. I know what the definition of lying is, and it isn't based on the word "is"-ever. ----- I'd feel much safer if the elections weren't run by officials of any major political party, who obviously see their best interest in preventing other parties from taking root.

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you qualify for any special loan programs, gov't sponsored bank loans, etc., so you can open a hotel, 7-Eleven, trinket shop, or any thing else, while the indigenous peoples can't get past a high school education because they can't afford it. -----uh...I think the indigenous people in this country are Native Americans. It was often settlers from Europe (many of whom didn't speak English at the time) who moved into their government protected lands. Whether we like it or not, we broke a lot of treaties with the indigenous people in order to expand our country. The indigenous people didn't count because they weren't "christians." Their children were forced into schools we created to teach them how to be like us - the rest now run casinos on reservations.

I didn't take the initiative in inventing the Internet. I thought the Taco Bell dog was funny. - - - so did I.

I want them to bring back safe and sane fireworks. - - - long overdue.

I believe no one ever died because of something Ozzy Osbourne, Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang, but that doesn't mean I want to listen to that crap from someone else's car when I'm stopped at a red light. But I respect your right to. - - -good.

I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack In The Box. - - - I'd wager many of those employees ARE students, cuz you ain't gonna get to buy that big truck, big boat, big house or lure pretty women with a career on the line there.

I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words light, lite or fat-free on the package.

Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead of anyone today, and they meant what they said - now leave the document alone, or there's going to be trouble. - - -uh...well let's see here - remove the "amendments" to that Constitution, and just what rights would you have? You wouldn't have the right to post this, for example, not without risk of repercussion by whatever political party was runnin' the show. There would be no freedom of the press, etc. Amendments are part of what makes this a living document - they provide for addressing issues that weren't relevant at the time. For example, "decades later," women were provided the right to vote. People forget that when this country was founded, only well-off white men who were allowed to own property were able to even vote or hold any kind of public office. One of the reasons this Constitution goes through interpretations is because a lot of the soldiers drafted to go to some foreign country and fight were members of minorities who were NOT afforded the same rights back here. Japanese families were interred in camps during World War II...property confiscated out of fear and paranoia, yet their sons were eventually allowed to fight. African-Americans were allowed to form their own combat units, even though they couldn't hold jobs, public office, vote in some states, or use the same bathroom as whites.

I don't hate the rich. I help the poor. I know wrestling is fake. I've never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our forefathers weren't wealthy enough to own one either. Please stop blaming me because some prior white people were idiots - and remember, tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too - it was wrong for every one of them. ---- this is perfectly right, except there are still some people who are idiots, who believe in superiority of a race. Look at the marriage laws over the years, where women were denied the right to own property, for example...or to vote, etc...or when domestic violence was overlooked because she was considered a man's "property."

I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude. ---- this wornout cliche only illustrates the attitude that a true American has to be a member of one particular political party and toe that party line as rigidly as any dictatorial government we claim to be against. There's nothing more dangerous than a "conservative" who demands that everyone worship God in HIS image, live their lives exactly the way HE does, and continually make sacrifices to provide special rights and accommodate HIS own insecurities about the world around him.

I want to know exactly which church is it where the "Reverend" Jessie Jackson preaches; and, what exactly is his job function. ---- I've often wondered that also...but then, I'm still trying to figure out how Pat Robertson can be called a christian - or a preacher. Tax them all!

I own a gun, you can own a gun, and any red blooded American should be allowed to own a gun, but if you use it in a crime, then you will serve the time. - - -absolutely. The right to defend your property and family is fundamental. Shootouts in the local saloon or on Main Street, or duels to settle an argument might be a bit extreme.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it makes you mad, then invent the next operating system that's better and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to help you. ---I thought the Internet was developed at a public university for the military?

I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Even suggesting it makes me mad. You're telling me that someone who is a minority, gay, disabled, another nationality, or otherwise different from the mainstream of this country has more value as a human being that I do as a white male. If someone kills anyone, I'd say that it's a hate crime. We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already have. - - - I think you got this figured the wrong way around here. It wasn't the African-Americans hangin' their own in the magnolia trees of the South or burning crosses outside white churches while the local sheriff ignored the act. Then there were the straight white guys standing in the courtrooms cryin' a successful murder self-defense cuz their peepee was threatened when a gay guy hit on them....hmm...always in front of a judge who was just like them. (if a woman coulda claimed that crap every time a guy hit on HER, there wouldn't be many of us around now).Twisting the historical facts of treatment by one group on another to claim they are getting "special protections or rights" is one of the biggest cliches used. Maybe if that Constitution had just passed one amendment that said "No special rights, treatment, or privileges for straight white men," we wouldn't have needed all the other stuff. But then, your argument here is that the Constitution shoulda remained a document giving ONLY them rights.

I think turkey bacon, turkey beef, turkey fake anything sucks. I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child-it takes a parent with the guts to stand up to the kid and spank his butt and say "NO!" when it's necessary to do so. ---- you bet, even when the kid is a child of a public official with lots of connections to keep his name outa trouble.

I'll admit that the only movie that ever made me cry was Ole Yeller.

I didn't realize Dr. Seuss was a genius until I had a kid. ---

I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought this country allowed me that right. I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings. I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.

Yes, I guess by some people's definition, I may be a bad American. ----- you ain't a bad American at all, bud....

But that's tough.




Posted by: Flex

Originally posted by heeholler
Kinda sounds like me before the world got politically correctv. I am not "bad " by tough guy standards but agree with a lot of what was said...
NO SHIT! i completely agree heeholler.....once the U.S. got politically correct about EVERYTHING, it sucks.

i have a few black buddies. if i were EVER to call them African american, they would ridicule me. they are BLACK haha

it seems like everyone and anyone is suing or complaining or bitching about something right??? if someone kills a mosquito at a campsite, 5 minutes later the National Human Society for the Ethical Treatment of Mosquitos shows up and is protesting and demanding an apology............what is this world coming to????



Posted by: RCfootball87

Originally posted by dg806
I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop'in English, see the previous line.
Most of that I agree with, except this one mainly. If the fat ass cops could run fast enough to catch anyone, they wouldn't have to shoot them in the back. And doesn't shooting someone in the back make you *gasp* a COWARD. And isn't it illegal for a regular person to shem if they're trying to escape? If a cops life is not in any grave danger, and the person running is a drug dealer or theif, not a murderer, and the cop shoots him in the back, the cop should get 20 years to life in a state pen. Damn cops.



Posted by: Eggs

I kind of find it funny when people say "damn cops" and are pissed that they stereotype people or whatever. Umm, hello... saying "damn cops" is just as much a stereotype as saying all women are whores, all Middle Easterners are "camel jockies" or terrorists, saying all Pollocks are idiots, saying all Southerners are trash, as saying all French are cowards, all Germans are Nazis, all men are dogs, etc. Be consistant ya bunch of hos. If you're going to stereotype, atleast when you condemn someone else for it start off by saying "I'm a hypocritical bitch, but... "

Why the heck should a cop have to chase a criminal every time one runs? Tell me, when you get in a fight do you say "Okay, you hit me first, then its my turn", lets all be nice about this fighting now and make sure everyone gets a fair chance at it. A dudes going to pop a cop without blinking and without letting him get out of his car, but you want a cop to run down some dude. I dont think a cop should pop every dude that turns to run away, but if he sees somebody shoot somebody else for instance, tells the guy to drop the gun... and the guy drops the gun and starts to run away, I believe he should be capped just like that. The dude just shot somebody, he'd do it again in a second.

This society is too quick to help out he criminals and yet the victims get to live as victims, or die as them. In my opinion its simple, you take a life you loose yours. I always thought it funny that death row dudes would plead with the jury "It was wrong for me to take a life, its going to be wrong for you to take mine." Its funny how life all of a sudden had value when it suited their goals. Screw that, I want televised firing squads or public hangings. Wanna see what happens when you take anothers life? We'll show you.

As I said before, this isnt for crimes like chicken thieving and stuff... but for murder, etc.



Posted by: firestorm

Well Eggs, it isn't always as clear as black and white, a cop gets a call to a shooting and while approching sees someone fleeing the scene. Should he run them down and shoot them or run them down and see if he is running from the cop or the shooter? My point is, the cop should be required to see a gun and then have the right to shoot the bitch down no questions asked, no warnings just shoot em. I'm sure that piece of shit didn't warn his victim before putting a round in his/her chest. More street justice and less corrupt court justice I say. Give the police more power.



Posted by: Eggs

Yeah, I was an MP in the military (or the equivalent... was in the Navy). Certainly not saying that cops should just cap everyone, but I think there hands are so tied now that they cant effectively operate.

Its kinda funny, but from my experience its usually the criminals that are complaining about their rights being abused. Even when they are abusing the rights of others.



Posted by: firestorm

SP Eggs.



Posted by: Eggs

Well, I was 9545, SP is a version of that, but the official designation for Navy MP is Masters-At-Arms (MAA). But I was 9545, which means they take you out of your rate and you do the job of an MAA.



Posted by: Flex

Originally posted by Eggs
Yeah, I was an MP in the military (or the equivalent... was in the Navy). Certainly not saying that cops should just cap everyone, but I think there hands are so tied now that they cant effectively operate.

Its kinda funny, but from my experience its usually the criminals that are complaining about their rights being abused. Even when they are abusing the rights of others.
no shit, aint that the truth. a while ago, i remember hearing or reading about a guy who broke into someones house, and robbed it while the couple was upstairs sleeping. the "man" of the house woke up to noise downstairs and ended up chasing the guy out the door. on his way out, the robber tripped and like broke his leg on the ouside stairs. cops came and he got arrested for buglary or whatever. then.........the robber actually tried to sue the owner of the house for like faulty property or something like that! are you kidding me???????????

if it were my house, the robber would be LUCKY if when i caught him, i didnt torture him too much before i killed him.



Posted by: firestorm

My point of how laws work for the criminals and why I have no problems with street justice or vigalantism.



Posted by: Eggs

Dude, that kinda stuff happens all the time. This robber was climbing around on a guys roof trying to get in through the sky light... so the dude falls through and breaks some bones. Sues the home owner and wins! That kind of stuff happens alot, and it makes me sad because this so isnt what the founders of our country had in mind.

I know that things change and we have to modernize, but we've oversteppted our bounds in so many things and the courts are no longer enforcing the law, they are enforcing their own agenda. They too are human to be sure, but is it too much to ask that one try and be objective?



Posted by: Flex

haha vigalantism, good one fs.

what about bounty hunters. (i kill people for only $50, and that's including the burial!)



Posted by: Flex

Originally posted by Eggs
Dude, that kinda stuff happens all the time. This robber was climbing around on a guys roof trying to get in through the sky light... so the dude falls through and breaks some bones. Sues the home owner and wins! That kind of stuff happens alot, and it makes me sad because this so isnt what the founders of our country had in mind.

I know that things change and we have to modernize, but we've oversteppted our bounds in so many things and the courts are no longer enforcing the law, they are enforcing their own agenda. They too are human to be sure, but is it too much to ask that one try and be objective?
alls i know, is that if someone breaks into my house, they better hope someone calls the cops. i don't care if he is there to steal my toothbrush. i'll beat the fuck outta him so bad that he'll be beggin for the cops to arrive.

(if someone breaks into your house, don't you have teh "legal" right to kill them???)



Posted by: Eggs

Burial? More than most criminals deserve. Remember in the old days on the battlefields where they would let the animals and birds eat the dead?

Really though, there is a difference between vigalantism and just killing dudes. And there is a big difference between the law killing someone and vigalantism. What happens if as a vigilanty you kill the wrong person? Then you have commited the same crime that the person you were hunting had committed... on an innocent person as well.

Now if you see a dude doing something straight up wrong then I think you can take a little of it into your hands. But everyone needs to be careful about making mistakes when judging others.



Posted by: Eggs

It depends what state you're in Flex. Not all states..



Posted by: Flex

Originally posted by Eggs
It depends what state you're in Flex. Not all states..
Oh well, i'll just kill first and ask questions last......



Posted by: gr81

Originally posted by dg806
I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some midlevel governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies.
Couldn't agree more with this statement!

II think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop'in English, see the previous line.
Police officers are givin way too much power in this country already and in general it is abused IMO.

II think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack In The Box.
I can't agree with this. A person going to school is gettign an education, what are the drive thru workers doing? Maybe not every student takes full advantage of their opportunities but in general a person in school IS more enlightened than an entry level employee no doubt. why else would they be getting an education?

Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead of anyone today, and they meant what they said - now leave the document alone, or there's going to be trouble.
This is ridiculous. There has to be room for change, the things that applied when the constitution was written do not necessarily apply now. Change is absolutely necessary for positive growth and denying that is foolish. This country is not the same and therefore it is important to live our life by teh exact guidlines tat were catered for an entirely different world. It doesn't work like that.

I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.
Of course you do. you bettre check yourself, you sound like a liberal from this post! But you know what is even more dangerous is casting someone into an entire category b/c of an opinion of theirs and then making assumptions about them based on that category you have placed them in. that is dangerous. We hsouldn't be labeling people as democrat or republicn, we should be basing our thoughts on individual ideas and work from their. Otherwise we discredit a person before they have even spoken.

I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Even suggesting it makes me mad. You're telling me that someone who is a minority, gay, disabled, another nationality, or otherwise different from the mainstream of this country has more value as a human being that I do as a white male. If someone kills anyone, I'd say that it's a hate crime. We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already have.
totally agree

I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought this country allowed me that right. I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings. I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.
Lords knows I agree with this.




Posted by: Eggs

Have a throw away gun?



Posted by: Flex

throw away gun.............nah, ill just use my bare hands.

(ok, maybe i'll use a chainsaw and have some fun)



Posted by: Eggs

I think "the constitution is a living document" thing is misunderstood. I do think that the laws need to change to adapt to society. But I dont believe that they should be open to interpretation by every judge out there trying to enforce their agenda and get back at the world because their Mommy didnt buy them the pink PC "I'm gay" Gi Joe when they were 5.

Okay, that was kinda a red herring, my bad. Anyways, I dont think its right that its open to interpretation as suits the individual. Sure there are appeals and what not that can be accessed at times, but by and large the system has been hi-jacked by those who do what they think is right, and not what actually is right. When one subjectively determines the value of something, theres bound to be an error.



Posted by: Eggs

Remember that movie fargo?



Posted by: gr81

Originally posted by Eggs
Why the heck should a cop have to chase a criminal every time one runs? Tell me, when you get in a fight do you say "Okay, you hit me first, then its my turn", lets all be nice about this fighting now and make sure everyone gets a fair chance at it. A dudes going to pop a cop without blinking and without letting him get out of his car, but you want a cop to run down some dude. I dont think a cop should pop every dude that turns to run away, but if he sees somebody shoot somebody else for instance, tells the guy to drop the gun... and the guy drops the gun and starts to run away, I believe he should be capped just like that. The dude just shot somebody, he'd do it again in a second.

This society is too quick to help out he criminals and yet the victims get to live as victims, or die as them. In my opinion its simple, you take a life you loose yours. I always thought it funny that death row dudes would plead with the jury "It was wrong for me to take a life, its going to be wrong for you to take mine." Its funny how life all of a sudden had value when it suited their goals. Screw that, I want televised firing squads or public hangings. Wanna see what happens when you take anothers life? We'll show you.

I would love to hear how our society turns criminals into victims. I have never heard that. It is more like we are quick to turn cops into heros. Did you know that in my state, washington state last year, there was not 1 case prosecuted against a police officer for violating civil rihgts or police misconduct. In fact I will post the link ot the story I read that in yesterday in the seattle times if you want to read it:
Seattle Times: Police Misconduct

Just recently A police officer in WA state who was off duty and not in his jurisdiction walked up to a car in his neighborhood. There was a man with his family in there who was black and the cop ended up killing the man, saying he ws reaching for a gun. It turned out later the man was unarmed! The officer was not prosecuted, got off scott free. I have been involved in several incidents myself where innapropriate Police conduct occurred and of course a judge is not going to believe a young guys word over a cop's. My whole point ot this is that you can't generalize like police officers need more power in this country without looking at the whole picture. I agree that criminals should be prosecuted to teh fullest extent of the law, but I also believe that lots of police officers abuse their power with little or no consequences to their actions and that needs to be dealt with, more power is not teh answer. the system needs to be reworked.



Posted by: Flex

I hate cops.

i'm not saying i don't respect them though, please don't get me wrong. i have much respect for what they do.

but they don't have to be such fuckin dicks about EVERYTHING. why do they feel the need to be dicks at ALL TIMES and talk down to people.

i realize that they often deal with asshole people that make trouble and shit, but why do they talk to everyone like they are better, when they are NORMAL people with a badge and a gun?

Bottom line....i'll use a line from the infamous NWA....

Fuck Tha Police



Posted by: Eggs

You say that the system needs to be reworked alot gr81, but you have yet to propose a working theory for this. I hate to say it, but I get tired of hearing people complain about things when they arent going to offer advice as to how it can be fixed. The only previous comments you have made about cops are that they abuse their authority. Not how we can revise the system so that we can be rid of the problems of cops doing so.

You're young like I am, you're white like I am. I drive fast, you do too looking at your wheels. I play my music loud in my car some times. How come I've not been in situations where this abuse is evident but you have?

The statement I was making in that paragraph was in regards to criminals and victims. I'd moved past cops at that point. My statement was that true victims end up being just that, victims. Criminals get turned into victims all the time though, as I said before with the thief breaking into the house and suing, and thats happened quite a few times. Or a criminal getting a good lawyer and getting off free because of some tiny little loophole that the cop didnt think to cover. So that even while there is proof the crime was committed, oops, someone forgot to sign that piece of paper and date it so the case is thrown out. There was a girl at my kids sisters school who was driving while drugged up one night and hit a dude and killed him. The kid was under age so nothing happened, but meanwhile the guys family has to figure out a survive with the sole money maker gone. If you cant see how apparent it is that the justice system is whacked dude... there isnt any way for me to show it to you.

I agree that there are cops that abuse their authority. At the same time there are criminals who manipulate the system to their own benefit because of crap judges and worthless citizens that are mindless.

As to the case about the cop that shot the guy. You're presenting half a piece. I'd like to see the article on that, I guaranteed some information isnt getting passed out. The part that doesnt serve your statements.



Posted by: Eggs

Tell you what, you try dealing with idiots all day long and see how short your fuse gets on it. Deal with people spitting on you even though they dont know you, making your job harder by never cooperating, by wanting to hurt you just because you are trying to help your country, people talk smack about you behind your back, etc.

It sounds good standing from where you are to say you dont understand why they might be jerks sometimes, but try standing in their shoes and saying that you dont understand it. Theres a word, jaded. It happens, even if its not intended to.



Posted by: gr81

Originally posted by Eggs
You say that the system needs to be reworked alot gr81, but you have yet to propose a working theory for this. I hate to say it, but I get tired of hearing people complain about things when they arent going to offer advice as to how it can be fixed. The only previous comments you have made about cops are that they abuse their authority. Not how we can revise the system so that we can be rid of the problems of caps doing so.
If you really want to get on the topic of what should be done then we can, I wasa not mearley "complaining" as you put it an dI do have lots of ideas on how to re tool things. That was not what the post was about and I didn;t want to make a post a page long, but if you want to address that I will be more than happy to address it with you man.

You're young like I am, you're white like I am. I drive fast, you do too looking at your wheels. I play my music loud in my car some times. How come I've not been in situations where this abuse is evident but you have?

The statement I was making in that paragraph was in regards to criminals and victims. I'd moved past cops at that point. My statement was that true victims end up being just that, victims. Criminals get turned into victims all the time though, as I said before with the thief breaking into the house and suing, and thats happened quite a few times. Or a criminal getting a good lawyer and getting off free because of some tiny little loophole that the cop didnt think to cover. So that even while there is proof the crime was committed, oops, someone forgot to sign that piece of paper and date it so the case is thrown out. There was a girl at my kids sisters school who was driving while drugged up one night and hit a dude and killed him. The kid was under age so nothing happened, but meanwhile the guys family has to figure out a survive with the sole money maker gone. If you cant see how apparent it is that the justice system is whacked dude... there isnt any way for me to show it to you.

I agree that there are cops that abuse their authority. At the same time there are criminals who manipulate the system to their own benefit because of crap judges and worthless citizens that are mindless.
I don't understand te point you are trying to make here? we do not live in the same location as each other so the comparisons end where you began them. I get a sense that you are in some way hinting to the notion that these situations I speak of are in some way self induced, at least that is the tone you have. If I was black then would it be more legit of a complaint to you? Regardless I can't comment on why you haven't had the same experiences as I. You will have to come and live in my area and you will see that it is a fuckin warzone down here. the cops are horrible and they have the shit on lockdown. If you were here you would see. I am not out doing anything illegal. I don't drink, I rarely smoke, I don't deal drugs, I don't solicit women for sex or carry a gun. I don't dress like I am trying to be a gangsta at all. I don't speed, at least anymore, so you tell me. It isn't my fault. Maybe I wouldn't be so bitter about this if the police around here didn't treat people like we are criminals. These people are public servants that are supposed to serve and protect, not harrass until you reach your monthly quota of tickets. That is a great strategy to go and ticket the people that are paying you salary, great plan!


As to the case about the cop that shot the guy. You're presenting half a piece. I'd like to see the article on that, I guaranteed some information isnt getting passed out. The part that doesnt serve your statements.
As for this, you are right I didn't present the story in its entirety. I did however post a link to the story I was referring to earlier so you could read it yourself. Besides, even if the guy did talk shit to the cop or whatever else he could've done. The fact was the cop was OFF DUTY and NOT IN HIS JURISDICTION. Oh and most importantly the man was UNARMED. So no matter what else the story could possibly hold, there si no reason for this guy ot be shooting an unarmed man with his family in the car. Oh and the cop wasn't charged for a crime. other details are not important. I am certainly not basing my whole argument on this story anyways, it is just one example.




Posted by: Eggs

If you really want to get on the topic of what should be done then we can, I wasa not mearley "complaining" as you put it an dI do have lots of ideas on how to re tool things. That was not what the post was about and I didn;t want to make a post a page long, but if you want to address that I will be more than happy to address it with you man.
Sure, I'm always ready to discuss what can be done to change things for the better. If I werent I wouldnt even have begin to discuss it. The ability to discuss and think things through it perhaps the greatest gift we've been given, to not do so would be a shame.

I think you're making too much of where I live. I've never lived where you do, no doubt, but I lived in Cali for 5 years. Near Ventura... wasnt overly crazy, but more so than quite a few places. Lived in Chicago too, but I think the crime in Chicago has gotten alot better over the years.
Just to understand me completely. I do think these things are self induced. Dude, if I was in a place where I thought I was being mistreated I'd split for somewhere else. You're going to call that being cowardly perhaps, but tell that to the immigrants that for the past several hundred years have fled to the US to escape persecution. Now I'm only drawing the comparison of the US and persecution in the lightest sense. What we view as persecution here is nothing compared to in many countries. Thats beside the point though really.

I'm sure there are strategies that could effectively be used, but telling the cops to go sit on their thumbs isnt one of them... its easy for us to say they should work smarter than they are, or operate in a certain way, but we're doing so from outside the system without knowledge of whether it would be effective or not. Irregardless, I'm always up for a forum on the topic

As for this, you are right I didn't present the story in its entirety. I did however post a link to the story I was referring to earlier so you could read it yourself. Besides, even if the guy did talk shit to the cop or whatever else he could've done. The fact was the cop was OFF DUTY and NOT IN HIS JURISDICTION. Oh and most importantly the man was UNARMED. So no matter what else the story could possibly hold, there si no reason for this guy ot be shooting an unarmed man with his family in the car. Oh and the cop wasn't charged for a crime. other details are not important. I am certainly not basing my whole argument on this story anyways, it is just one example.
Ah alright, I thought that article was a link to the prior paragraph and not about the cop shooting the guy. Will read that. You know, off duty cops have done alot of good at times by being in the right place at the right time. However, just like on-duty cops making mistakes, off-duty ones are bound too as well. Some places require their cops to carry off duty as a way of getting a little extra work out of them without them having to be on duty or getting paid for it. I think that its a good idea, but that perhaps it needs to be supervised better.



Posted by: firestorm

Originally posted by gr81
I would love to hear how our society turns criminals into victims. I have never heard that. It is more like we are quick to turn cops into heros. Did you know that in my state, washington state last year, there was not 1 case prosecuted against a police officer for violating civil rihgts or police misconduct. In fact I will post the link ot the story I read that in yesterday in the seattle times if you want to read it:
Seattle Times: Police Misconduct

Just recently A police officer in WA state who was off duty and not in his jurisdiction walked up to a car in his neighborhood. There was a man with his family in there who was black and the cop ended up killing the man, saying he ws reaching for a gun. It turned out later the man was unarmed! The officer was not prosecuted, got off scott free. I have been involved in several incidents myself where innapropriate Police conduct occurred and of course a judge is not going to believe a young guys word over a cop's. My whole point ot this is that you can't generalize like police officers need more power in this country without looking at the whole picture. I agree that criminals should be prosecuted to teh fullest extent of the law, but I also believe that lots of police officers abuse their power with little or no consequences to their actions and that needs to be dealt with, more power is not teh answer. the system needs to be reworked.

WEll HELL GR8 if the system worked for the public and not so much for the criminals then we wouldn't be having this conversaition about Cops and more power. If a murderer who is sentenced to life in prison ACUALLY went to prison for LIFE then that is one Murderer that WON'T be back on the streets in 5-10 doing it all over again. We all have pipe dreams or daydreams of how we would like things to be and we are only voicing a few. It's true there are crooked cops out there but to group them all in that category is just unjust. I know MANY law enforcement officiers and I trust everyone of them do a respectable job. Lets face it, nothing we say here will ever become law. We just talk the talk. I honestly wouldn't want to see a cop blow someone away just because he was holding a gun. Hell man I used to carry one legally and if I saw a crime and was running with my gun out to assist and the cop sees me 1st and shoots me well damn there would go my perfect world right? Were just talking about how we wish criminals would get their just punishment and if the courts wont do it then cops or vigalantes should. Just a pipe dream buddy.



Posted by: Eggs

I'd read that article but I hate registering for stuff



Posted by: gr81

Originally posted by firestorm
It's true there are crooked cops out there but to group them all in that category is just unjust. I know MANY law enforcement officiers and I trust everyone of them do a respectable job. Lets face it, nothing we say here will ever become law. We just talk the talk.

I never grouped them together, I said that some abuse their power, some don't. I never say the word all in any argument I debate. I have been around the block and have met and encountered many cops in my time and I have known plenty that are good guys, lots that are bad and plenty on between. I know a guy right now that works for the Lynnwood police Department, the area where I live, and he ahs admitted to me that their PD is corrupt as fuck, that they don't care about the people, only the money. I know that all police officers do not fit into a single catagory and teh ones that are just and reputable are brave and do a great thing for society. Unfortunately my opinio is gonna be subjective as everyone's is, and in my experience as well as the experience from the pepole I have known, the cops around here have been crooked and continue to be. They do not operate under the "innocent until proven guilty" slogan. It seems to be reversed. If I could do more than talk, if my voice was being heard and represented by someone who cared about my demographic then maybe it wouldn't just be talk, maybe someone would care about what me and people liek me have to say. Unfortunately our opinions and experiences are discredited and go unheard, how is that for justice?



Posted by: firestorm

Well all I know is I'm dependant upon them. If someone breaks into my house they are the ones I'm calling or my wife when I'm not home so if I have to depend on them I'm not talking smack about them. They do a difficult job and I respect that.



Posted by: firestorm

When people say things like Fuq the cops or that they hate cops I would just love to see how fast they would call one when they needed one for an emergency and then see how much they hate them.



Posted by: gr81

but you are missing the point, we don't hate all cops. We like the ones that we can count on in an emergency b/c that is their job. We hate the ones that we can't depend on, that is why we hate them.



Posted by: Eggs

Yeh bro, but its spitting in the face of the good as well as the bad when people say "fuq the cops" and stuff. Now if they said "Fuq corrupt cops" that'd be a different story. In the first case its all inclusive though, and thats how its taken.



Posted by: Flex

Originally posted by gr81
but you are missing the point, we don't hate all cops. We like the ones that we can count on in an emergency b/c that is their job. We hate the ones that we can't depend on, that is why we hate them.
thank you. that's what i'm trying to say fire.

i realize they have a difficult job and they take so much shit everyday from different people, but they don't have to act like dicks and like they are better cuz they have a badge anda gun, thats all i'm saying.

many other normal people take shit all day from people and have difficult jobs, but they don't act like complete dickheads to everyojne they come across.

i dont really hate cops (some i do), but its just a general statement you know? obviously they are gonna be the 1st ones to show up to help in an emergency situation or whatever situation, but that is their job you know? Paramedics show up also, but they don't act like dickheads at all times.....



Posted by: Flex

Originally posted by Eggs
Yeh bro, but its spitting in the face of the good as well as the bad when people say "fuq the cops" and stuff. Now if they said "Fuq corrupt cops" that'd be a different story. In the first case its all inclusive though, and thats how its taken.
i know i know! you're correcting my semantics though haha

this is why this thread started in the 1st place! how people complain about everything, including semantics



Posted by: Eggs

Theres more than semantics involved in that

You want a comparison Flex? Look at doctors. Some doctors treat their patients like they are another number. Just another animal coming in to get pocked and prodded. Others do a great job and care about their patients. Cops are the same way. Every profession has its a holes. Like the kids that you piss off at McDonalds that spit in your burger last week





Posted by: Flex

Originally posted by Eggs
Theres more than semantics involved in that

You want a comparison Flex? Look at doctors. Some doctors treat their patients like they are another number. Just another animal coming in to get pocked and prodded. Others do a great job and care about their patients. Cops are the same way. Every profession has its a holes. Like the kids that you piss off at McDonalds that spit in your burger last week

i realize that bro.

obviously every proffession has its holes. and i didnt mean to stereotype all cops, like i said.
i just didnt want to take the time to write "not all, but more than a little....and probably the majority, but not sure exactly how many" cops are dickheads, you hear me?



Posted by: Eggs

Yeh, I get ya... but ya have to realize that I give props to those cops that are doing their jobs, so I want to make sure they get the respect thats their due.

Some people say "They are just doing thir job." But alot of those guys and girls on the force are putting their lives on the line to do whats right, and for that I have to give them their props.

Kinda like I do soliders over in the war. There are those out there that are idiots, and there are ones that cause problems... but there are also alot of fine young men and women out there taking bullets to represent this country and its ideals/morals to the rest of the world. Some people wont understand that, and some of our soliders dont... and some wont come back from it. Either way, our services deserve honor to be rendered to them for their dedication to our country.



Posted by: Flex

Originally posted by Flex
I hate cops.

i'm not saying i don't respect them though, please don't get me wrong. i have much respect for what they do.

but they don't have to be such fuckin dicks about EVERYTHING. why do they feel the need to be dicks at ALL TIMES and talk down to people.
thats why i said this before eggs....



Posted by: firestorm

Originally posted by gr81
but you are missing the point, we don't hate all cops. We like the ones that we can count on in an emergency b/c that is their job. We hate the ones that we can't depend on, that is why we hate them.
sorry for the misconception there GR8 that wasn't directed to you just a general statement.



Posted by: firestorm

WEll guys I'm not going to blast you for your verbage because I'm the worst culprit here to making statements such as yours without witing them exactly how I mean them. Just tonight I had to write an appology for saying something that came out the wrong way. No problems here guys. ONe thing though,,, Police officers put that bad ass attitude on as a defense mechanism. They need to be seen in a certain light and not some nice guy neighbor. they need to have a certain intimidation effect and mental armor If I may to perform that job. I know guys that are totally different people when they put that uniform on. It is a very stressful job and believe it or not many cops do not enjoy causing others grief and hardship. Many drink alot to release the stress and horrors of the job. Horrors as in big city cops and those in high crime areas. anyway, I'm getting tired I'm taking a break be back laterzzz.



Posted by: gr81

...yeah and some of them just have small man complex and use their badge as a way of exhibiting power over people that they ynormally wouldn't be able to.



Posted by: firestorm

ok that is true GR8 I know of a few of them too. Clear cases of the Napoleon complex



Posted by: Eggs

Yeh, thats what you said before Flex... was just stating what my rationale was.



Posted by: kbm8795

I think this discussion really illustrates just what kind of a public relations problem police seem to have within many communities. One of the problems seems to be the perception among some groups that the police only "serve and protect" the public they recognize and understand, meaning their own personal concepts about reality and what is right and wrong.

Obviously, their job is to enforce the law. . .laws they didn't make, and laws that are constantly changing and being re-interpreted. They don't get a lot of say or power over what they are expected to enforce.

However, they DO have some control over HOW they choose to enforce a law, and how they approach members of the public when there is a potential situation where they think a law may have been broken. There is something very wrong about a system where some members of that public feel like they are criminals because they are questioned or stopped by the police - it isn't law enforcement's job to make anyone feel like a victim. You don't victimize the very people you are supposed to be serving and protecting.

It's not like we get the choice to ask a cop stopping us if they are a "good" cop or a "bad" cop. But you can bet if you get the feeling that you are a member of a particular demographic group that has felt victimized by law enforcement, the chances of feeling "served and protected" is diminished.

This isn't necessarily always the cop's fault - they don't always have the time to build community support, reassure someone that they are really there to help, and instill confidence in their reasoning for the choices in their actions. But they do have a job to do - which includes protecting people they personally don't like.



Posted by: kbm8795

Originally posted by Eggs
I think "the constitution is a living document" thing is misunderstood. I do think that the laws need to change to adapt to society. But I dont believe that they should be open to interpretation by every judge out there trying to enforce their agenda and get back at the world because their Mommy didnt buy them the pink PC "I'm gay" Gi Joe when they were 5.

Okay, that was kinda a red herring, my bad. Anyways, I dont think its right that its open to interpretation as suits the individual. Sure there are appeals and what not that can be accessed at times, but by and large the system has been hi-jacked by those who do what they think is right, and not what actually is right. When one subjectively determines the value of something, theres bound to be an error.

Now you see, (no offense, Eggs) I hate statements like that - the attitude that the Constitution has been hijacked because every judge in the country no longer represents solely the opinion of the group who has controlled and held power for over 200 years. Every court case is supposed to be individual - which is one reason why precedent and interpretation changes with new situations.
This is not like it's a brand-new thang that judges have an agenda - for most of our history, those who held the bench were heterosexual white males who were either elected (often as affiliates of a politcal party) or appointed by political parties. Even the Supreme Court appointees are contested by political parties because their political attitudes and values determine how the Constitution may be interpreted in the future.
The Constitution just isn't some living document because society "changes" - when this country was founded, there were black people here, women here, disabled people here, and gay people here. All of them were disenfranchised. That fact alone means there was a system in place with values and an agenda, and the laws created to enforce that agenda were often upheld in the courts. Society didn't just "change" and say "gosh - we really aren't treating these other people in a democratic manner" - most of these people had to take action, lodge protests, challenge the system over many years just to secure fair and equal access. If that means they are promoting "their" agenda, then think about what life must have meant for those who were not provided rights or benefits of that protection over the years.
It hasn't been that many years since the interpretation of "separate but equal" educational systems was successfully challenged and integration between the races in school districts was enforced. It also hasn't been many years since interracial marriage wasn't recognized and was sometimes considered criminal. If you want a more recent example, think about the selective enforcement of sodomy laws in the states that still have them - even in cases where the laws prohibit certain oral sexual activity between any two people, the laws are only carted out and enforced against homosexuals. Heterosexuals are only subject to that law if they have committed an accompanying crime, like having sex with a minor or prosecuted for rape. Then, of course, there are the states which have those laws on the books as a crime only when gay people commit the act. Whose agenda established those laws and interpretation?

My lengthy point here is that the courts have always been pushing someone's agenda, and often as not victimizing someone else to preserve their own promotion of what is right and wrong.



Posted by: Eggs

Originally posted by kbm8795
Now you see, (no offense, Eggs) I hate statements like that - the attitude that the Constitution has been hijacked because every judge in the country no longer represents solely the opinion of the group who has controlled and held power for over 200 years. Every court case is supposed to be individual - which is one reason why precedent and interpretation changes with new situations.
What group has controlled and held power for over 200 years? I thought the Democrats got theirs too. Or are you referring to the caucasian male? Yes they did do as they thought was right so long ago. If you want to throw something at them though, you'd better be ready to toss it on the caucasian males that died to be rid of slavery as well. Are systems always fair? Hardly, but do I think that the law needs up be reinterpreted by every Tom, Dick Sally that comes along? No.

This is not like it's a brand-new thang that judges have an agenda - for most of our history, those who held the bench were heterosexual white males who were either elected (often as affiliates of a politcal party) or appointed by political parties. Even the Supreme Court appointees are contested by political parties because their political attitudes and values determine how the Constitution may be interpreted in the future.
Sure, whats your point?

The Constitution just isn't some living document because society "changes" - when this country was founded, there were black people here, women here, disabled people here, and gay people here. All of them were disenfranchised. That fact alone means there was a system in place with values and an agenda, and the laws created to enforce that agenda were often upheld in the courts. Society didn't just "change" and say "gosh - we really aren't treating these other people in a democratic manner" - most of these people had to take action, lodge protests, challenge the system over many years just to secure fair and equal access. If that means they are promoting "their" agenda, then think about what life must have meant for those who were not provided rights or benefits of that protection over the years.
It hasn't been that many years since the interpretation of "separate but equal" educational systems was successfully challenged and integration between the races in school districts was enforced. It also hasn't been many years since interracial marriage wasn't recognized and was sometimes considered criminal. If you want a more recent example, think about the selective enforcement of sodomy laws in the states that still have them - even in cases where the laws prohibit certain oral sexual activity between any two people, the laws are only carted out and enforced against homosexuals. Heterosexuals are only subject to that law if they have committed an accompanying crime, like having sex with a minor or prosecuted for rape. Then, of course, there are the states which have those laws on the books as a crime only when gay people commit the act. Whose agenda established those laws and interpretation?
I'm not quite sure how you took the word change and turned it to suit your goals to make it appear as if I meant it to have less meaning. Either way, your being fallacious and trying to make it appear as if I have been against progress. I do not think that the courts should attempt to enforce their own agenda, I dont believe they should have before or do so now. Your statement that they did it before seems to indicate that in itself gives you ample reason to believe they should do it now. It is certainly the peoples need to promote their agendas... your and my agenda. That doesnt mean that every judge should try and shape his courtroom in his/her own image. There is a responsibility assumed when taking that position, and in that responsibility is acting in a manner that should somehow be consistant with law. You want change, go vote and picket.

My lengthy point here is that the courts have always been pushing someone's agenda, and often as not victimizing someone else to preserve their own promotion of what is right and wrong.
As I said before, hows that a point? And please read the whole thread next time, we were referring to criminals that were suing people when they got hurt robbing their house, etc. I believe that when one becomes a judge they need to take a test to determine if they have common sense. Its certainly not prevelant today.

So either way, it was nice of you to bring racism, etc into this... but I was just referring to judges not properly sentencing people and/or further victimizing the true victims of the crimes. Which one wouldnt understand if one just jumped to my post, but seen in context of the thread...

and FYI, I'm all for progress... especially when its for human rights. However, I'm not for "progress" when its about a dude suing me who was in my house illegally trying to steal my TV set (or anything else along those lines).



Posted by: kbm8795

Uh....I did read the whole thread - if you noticed the original statement of the thread, it encompassed more than criminal situations that involved more than just breaking into someone's house. You stated that the constitution shouldn't be interpreted by every individual judge - what you didn't state was that you only meant that to apply to certain kinds of criminal activity. In fact, you said "..but I don't believe that they should be open to interpretation by every judge out there trying to enforce their agenda and get back at the world because their Mommy didn't buy them the pink PC "I'm gay" GI Joe when they were 5."

That isn't the kind of statement that indicates a support for advancing human rights. It also doesn't refer to people breaking into houses but instead refers to a system being "hi-jacked by those who do what they think is right, and not what actually is right. When one subjectively determines the value of something, there's bound to be an error."

I am sorry that you didn't see my point - which is that the notion of criminal activity has been traditionally arbitrarily enforced and is linked to the people in power who created the system. The notion of what is right and wrong is also fluid, which is why I used those examples to point out where some criminal activities in the past are no longer considered criminal.

The thread mentioned everything from hate crimes to fireworks - I was responding in reference to those original statements and your remarks in reference to the Constitution. As you know, the Constitution doesn't generate laws or guidelines concerning crimes like "burglary" - it merely serves as a document that is a guideline for citizen and government rights. It comes into play when a citizen's rights - including one accused as a "criminal," is considered violated.

It's often too easy to dismiss the inequality of the past by saying the system has been "hijacked" now....as if it wasn't always the case. The system has never been "just" to someone out there...I was merely pointing out that for every incident where we rage about a criminal getting off too easily, there are incidents where the courts themselves didn't recognize certain citizens as having any rights to begin with.



Posted by: kbm8795

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eggs
What group has controlled and held power for over 200 years? I thought the Democrats got theirs too. Or are you referring to the caucasian male? Yes they did do as they thought was right so long ago. ...............uh...and is doing what they "thought was right" the same as doing what was "actually" right, simply because they were a particular group that remade their courtroom in their image? How is that different than what you are saying happens NOW?

If you want to throw something at them though, you'd better be ready to toss it on the caucasian males that died to be rid of slavery as well. Are systems always fair? Hardly, but do I think that the law needs up be reinterpreted by every Tom, Dick Sally that comes along? No............I don't recall the number of government officials and court justices who died during that war. I do know that there wasn't a rush of former slaves being elected to Congress or appointed to the courts. In the South, those who were emancipated were later intimidated and thrown out of office. Slavery was abolished in the North just as much for economic reasons as for any moral interpretation. This doesn't mean that there weren't caucasian males who made sacrifices to be rid of slavery - there obviously was. But the point is that there HAD to be caucasian male support in order to get that slavery abolished. . .because they were the only ones with the power to change the laws and interpretation of the Constitution. Thus, human rights was dependent upon the interpretation of what is right and wrong by one specific group.



Sure, whats your point?



Posted by: TheGreatSatan

I believe that when one becomes a judge they need to take a test to determine if they have common sense. Its certainly not prevelant today.[/QUOTE]

I whole heartedly agree. You also have to many Judges who think they're politicians and are too worried about 'civil liberties' being lost even for criminals.



Posted by: kbm8795

That would most certainly require the elimination of political parties from the court selection process - something neither one of the major parties are apt to ever agree to institute.

It seems to me that our system was really "hijacked" by the people running those parties - if you notice, our Constitution never sanctioned the creation of political parties or established the number allowed to participate in holding power. And I believe that their representatives regularly cast aside notions of civil liberties when they conflict with their hold on power.

An interesting story appeared in one of my state's papers yesterday - apparently, one of the two major parties has managed to vote to cancel presidential primaries for both parties in three states, claiming the election process is "too expensive" for those states this next election year. Of course, that party only has one candidate running for re-election. It's a good thing so many Americans think ordinary citizens have too many civil liberties...



Posted by: awsof

"I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop'in English, see the previous line."


Maybe not a bad American, however a hypocrite and probably suck at being a Police Officer if you believe you can just shoot someone for running. Or it's just a wish so you can shoot something else beside a paper target. This all depends on where you are on the JOB. Or maybe you need to be more specific.



Posted by: DFINEST

I love GOD, my country, women
BUT I do not love GWB as President



Posted by: Big Smoothy

Quote Originally Posted by dg806
I think this has been posted before, but damn this is so true!
I love it!!

I'm a Bad American. This pretty much sums it up for me. I like big trucks, big boats, big houses, and naturally, pretty women.
How much of these things are paid for?

I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some midlevel governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies.
I agree, but this is NOT the way it is.

I don't care about appearing compassionate.
I don't either. The bleeding heart folks tend to be the cheapest people I know. They talk a lot, but they don't DO anything.

I think playing with toy guns doesn't make you a killer. I believe ignoring your kids and giving them Prozac might.
Most American parents are too busy to pay attention to their kids.

I think I'm doing better than the homeless.
You compare yourself to peole with a different lifestyle, by putting yourself on a self-rightous pedastol? You make me laugh.

I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized. I have the right not to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird or make me mad. This is my life to live, and not necessarily up to others expectations. I know what SEX is and there are not varying degrees of it.
I'm tired of certain "groups" getting bonus points when they take a test to be a police officer, or in admissions to universities. A friend of mine gets Affirmative Action applied to him because he is 1/4 Basque, and his last name ends in a vowel.

I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. But if you want to that's fine; I just don't feel like everyone else should have to.
Kwanzaa is a new-age kooky celebration that began in the 1960s. It's just the same as other cultish rituals. There is nothing "cultural" about Kwanzaa.

I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, a pack of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English.
Yes! This gets me very annoyed.

As of matter of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English. My uncles and forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it.
I believe English should be the official language. It is important for commuting and it also makes understand different cultures better because we can communicate.

I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop'in English, see the previous line.
In many cases, I do agree Dg....

I know how to count votes and I feel much safer letting a machine with no political affiliation do a recount when needed.
The voting machines are a big problem in the U.S. right now. Election fraud has already occurred and we all will be hearing about soon.

I didn't take the initiative in inventing the Internet. I thought the Taco Bell dog was funny.
Non-sequetur.

I want them to bring back safe and sane fireworks.
You have too much time on your hands. Get out of the donut shop.

Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead of anyone today, and they meant what they said - now leave the document alone, or there's going to be trouble.
Indeed. Our Consitution is longest surviving one in the history of the world. We should remember this.

I don't hate the rich. I help the poor. I know wrestling is fake. I've never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our forefathers weren't wealthy enough to own one either. Please stop blaming me because some prior white people were idiots - and remember, tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too - it was wrong for every one of them.
This was taken from Ted Nugent. As for slavery, the blacks were heavily involved in the slave trade as well, and slavery still exists in the Middle East and Africa.

I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.
This I do not agree with.

I want to know exactly which church is it where the "Reverend" Jessie Jackson preaches; and, what exactly is his job function.
Jesse Jackon's job function? Race hustler, poverty pimp, and exploiter of the poor. He lives like a King, mooches off others, takes government planes that are financed by taxpayers' money, and is a pig.

We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already have.
I agree! I think Congress should meet LESS OFTEN. The pass too many laws that are so sophisticated and so intrusive that people don't even know what the law is anymore.

I'll admit that the only movie that ever made me cry was Ole Yeller.
Are you a redneck?

Yes, I guess by some people's definition, I may be a bad American.
No, you're not a bad American. You just another bag of wind.



Posted by: DFINEST

Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Snafu
.....Kwanzaa is a new-age kooky celebration that began in the 1960s. It's just the same as other cultish rituals. There is nothing "cultural" about Kwanzaa.


.....Jesse Jackon's job function? Race hustler, poverty pimp, and exploiter of the poor. He lives like a King, mooches off others, takes government planes that are financed by taxpayers' money, and is a pig.

I find it ironic that SOME individuals will openly and readily celebrate halloween, which is forced down your throat more than KWANZAA ever will be but will call KWANZAA a "kooky cultish ritual"...

I don't agree with alot of Mr Jackson's actions, but he hasn't done any worst than the POPE and The Catholic Church as they continually protect their child raping priest; to this day, I have not seen a word to read or heard any word from the Catholic Church denouncing their rapist priest but I continually hear about it is a person's moral obligation to denounce abortion and gay marriage. Where is there moral obligation at concerning their priest who rape kids? I am not denouncing the Pope or the church but where is the consistency of moral obligation that they preach about.



Posted by: Big Smoothy

Quote Originally Posted by DFINEST
I find it ironic that SOME individuals will openly and readily celebrate halloween, which is forced down your throat more than KWANZAA ever will be but will call KWANZAA a "kooky cultish ritual"...
Halloween and Kwanzaa are both kooky cult celebrations. Why are you equation Kwaanza with Halloween?

I don't agree with alot of Mr Jackson's actions, but he hasn't done any worst than the POPE and The Catholic Church as they continually protect their child raping priest;
Indeed.

to this day, I have not seen a word to read or heard any word from the Catholic Church denouncing their rapist priest but I continually hear about it is a person's moral obligation to denounce abortion and gay marriage. Where is there moral obligation at concerning their priest who rape kids? I am not denouncing the Pope or the church but where is the consistency of moral obligation that they preach about.
Catholicism is a frightening cult that diverged from Christianity. Many Protestant Christians do not believe Catholicism is a Christian religion because it has diverged so much.

Note the Great Schism, that has existed for over 1,000 years.



Posted by: DFINEST

Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Snafu
Halloween and Kwanzaa are both kooky cult celebrations. Why are you equation Kwaanza with Halloween?
I'm equating them BASED on the original post by dg806 about KWANZAA being forced down his throat and I know for a fact that halloween, has been forced down more throats for a longer period of time than KWANZAA ever will be.....

Only KWANZAA is portrayed as being "kooky and forced down the throat" of
persons who care not to celebrate it.....

There are different holiday celebrations throughout the year that people
do not care to participate in BUT that does not make you a bad American; Why is KWANZAA the only holiday that is singled out?



Posted by: MTN WARRIOR

Quote Originally Posted by Flex
Oh well, i'll just kill first and ask questions last......
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. However, in most states "you must be in fear for your or an immediate loved ones, life; in order to shoot. And the bad guy going out the window with you shooting him in the back doesn't qualify. I'm not agreeing, just giving you the skinny. IMO, you come in my house uninvited, you will leave un-breathing.



Posted by: MTN WARRIOR

Quote Originally Posted by Eggs
I think "the constitution is a living document" thing is misunderstood. I do think that the laws need to change to adapt to society. But I dont believe that they should be open to interpretation by every judge out there trying to enforce their agenda and get back at the world because their Mommy didnt buy them the pink PC "I'm gay" Gi Joe when they were 5.

Okay, that was kinda a red herring, my bad. Anyways, I dont think its right that its open to interpretation as suits the individual. Sure there are appeals and what not that can be accessed at times, but by and large the system has been hi-jacked by those who do what they think is right, and not what actually is right. When one subjectively determines the value of something, theres bound to be an error.
Funny, how did YOU know there was a "gay" GI Joe. hmmm. watch out Jenny.



Posted by: MTN WARRIOR

Quote Originally Posted by gr81
I would love to hear how our society turns criminals into victims. I have never heard that. It is more like we are quick to turn cops into heros. Did you know that in my state, washington state last year, there was not 1 case prosecuted against a police officer for violating civil rihgts or police misconduct. In fact I will post the link ot the story I read that in yesterday in the seattle times if you want to read it:
Seattle Times: Police Misconduct

Just recently A police officer in WA state who was off duty and not in his jurisdiction walked up to a car in his neighborhood. There was a man with his family in there who was black and the cop ended up killing the man, saying he ws reaching for a gun. It turned out later the man was unarmed! The officer was not prosecuted, got off scott free. I have been involved in several incidents myself where innapropriate Police conduct occurred and of course a judge is not going to believe a young guys word over a cop's. My whole point ot this is that you can't generalize like police officers need more power in this country without looking at the whole picture. I agree that criminals should be prosecuted to teh fullest extent of the law, but I also believe that lots of police officers abuse their power with little or no consequences to their actions and that needs to be dealt with, more power is not teh answer. the system needs to be reworked.

Wow GR81, I was just starting to think that we were similar minds. But come on, cops are human, just like soldiers are human. There are bad ones and there are great ones. It is not correct when it is incumbant upon the overworked and underpaid police officer to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Jimmy Crackhead intended to sell the crack he just alledgedly swallowed. Do they need authority like in Italy or in Nazi Germany, fuck no. But they need to have more authority and acceptance than the street walking crakc whores they arrest. But just remember that when they rape your daughter or beat your son (I'm not really directing this at you gr81), you voted for less power for police. You voted to not allow high-speed pursuits. You voted for that right wing sheriff who doesn't provide resources or training for his officers. You voted down that faster police car which could have caught the pedophile that just raped your kid. You voted against the power to search and seizure, while the right wing passed a law saying they could "listen in" on anything they wanted if it were terrorist related. Isn't a stalking pedo a terrorist, shouldnt we be able to monitor what he does?



Posted by: MTN WARRIOR

Quote Originally Posted by Flex
I hate cops.

i'm not saying i don't respect them though, please don't get me wrong. i have much respect for what they do.

but they don't have to be such fuckin dicks about EVERYTHING. why do they feel the need to be dicks at ALL TIMES and talk down to people.

i realize that they often deal with asshole people that make trouble and shit, but why do they talk to everyone like they are better, when they are NORMAL people with a badge and a gun?

Bottom line....i'll use a line from the infamous NWA....

Fuck Tha Police
That is so absurd. They are normal people with a badge and gun who GET FUCKING SHOT AT EVERY NIGHT BY IDIOTS LIKE YOU MORON. You dont think you would be a little edgy. Let me follow you around and just shoot at you whenever I fucking decide and you tell me how you feel. And let me pay you $40K a year with shitty benefits and make you do it at night when you could be with your family. You give humans a bad name.



Posted by: maniclion

Flex, they have to come off as dicks in order to establish an authoritive position when dealing with lawbreakers or suspected lawbreakers. If you get to know them in a regular setting you would then be able to see who the real facist ones are and who the good ones are. I used to work at an office where many used to hangout at and I learned that the majority of them were more coolheaded than I. I think only 2 or three I met had bad attitudes that could end up being a problem if left unchecked, you know little comments like how they wanted to bash some guy's head for talking back or how they put the cuffs on extra tight cause they didn't like the guy or how they'd like to have fucked the prostitute they picked up. I'm sure the others guy's kept a running tab of who was a potential loose cannon and made sure they didn't handle too many things alone. The sad thing is that on occassion one of the loose cannons gets an easily persuaded partner and they can get into some trouble.



Posted by: Rich46yo

You wouldn't catch me living again in a country where the Police can shoot you just for running,"been there done that". I'm sorry, but 'running" is not an execution able offense". And even if it was it would be up to the courts to carry out sentence, not the police. when I first came on the job we could shoot fleeing burglars, as "burglary" was and is considered a "forcible felony". That all changed in a supreme court decision sometime around 1984. We can still shoot fleeing felons but the restrictions are so great the unwritten rule is,"don't shoot anyone running from you". We have rules and then we have unwritten rules. If you violate the "unwritten" ones you had better have some politics to survive. Same thing with car chases too, forget em. We used to chase for everything. Ive been in some that went into other states and put the movie "Blue Brothers" to shame.

Now? Forget it! This system will hang me out to dry in a minute if I chase someone and theres a crash.

Its always amazed me how some lifetime criminal,"and Im talking serious felonies here", can lodge a complaint against a PO and an entire machinery springs into action, spending untold $ of the taxpayers money to investigate the allegations. Then, and more often then you think , they will find in favor of the career criminal and the officer will get an unpaid vacation as payment for his actions that brought a career criminal to justice. THEN, quite often, witnesses wont show up or a mushhead court will find a not guilty verdict in the criminal case and spring the prick loose to prey on his community again. THEN the ACLU will finance a civil suite and the officer will have to go thru that separate procedure. And often, if the brutality complaint was already upheld against the officer, he will lose that civil case, or the city will settle, and a chunk of the officers paycheck will now be delivered to Joe Shitheads door every two weeks.

All this ,BTW, happened to a friend of mine, and others. This guy is as easy going and friendly as you can imagine. He got fucking rail-roaded! He had a bunch of great thinkers on his jury who, like Manlicon, thought they were experts on using force because they "hung out" with a bunch of coppers in an office, and they decided this officer used to much force even tho the offender fought him tooth and nail. It didn't help that the copper was a male/white, the offender was a male/black,"of course". And the jury was mostly black. AND it all came up right after the Rottoney King fiasco. The offender was high on drugs at the time. But this testimony couldn't be used in court, nor could his extensive criminal past.

And people wonder why we stop giving a shit and show up late just to take the reports. How many hits like that are you going to take and still go out and give 100% for the citizens? Now that I'm older I get to watch the metamorphose of these young officers as the reality of the street and the system changes them from ideological zealots to burned out empty suits who don't want to do anything.

I wont go that far personally. I still like people and like helping them. But I will not put my own neck in the guillotine for any reason. If a vicious gangbanging criminal gets sprung out to prey on the community again? Who cares? Its wasn't me who let him free and I'm not going to purger myself, a felony in its own right, just to protect a community that goes to bed at night thinking "were" the bad guys.

And before anyone starts thinking Manlicon knows anything about LawEnforcement? I would like to testify, and Ive been a civilian cop for 21years and was an MP for 4, that he doesnt know shit! But, like everything else, hes an expert on this too.......take care.................Rich



Posted by: Minotaur

Quote Originally Posted by dg806
Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead of anyone today, and they meant what they said - now leave the document alone, or there's going to be trouble.
That's probably the only point I disagree with. I don't think the framers of the Constitution were looking much further into the future than their own day, and what they wanted to get out of the political situation and climate of the times.

I do think they deliberately made the Constitution vague so that it would not come back to bite them in the ass at a later time.

I do however, agree, that it should be changed only under the gravest of circumstances, and not willy-nilly. Certainly not to define marriage, for example. The Constitution is too high an ideal to be bothered with something that is day to day and that the states can deal with.



Posted by: Big Smoothy

Quote Originally Posted by DFINEST
I'm equating them BASED on the original post by dg806 about KWANZAA being forced down his throat and I know for a fact that halloween, has been forced down more throats for a longer period of time than KWANZAA ever will be.....

Only KWANZAA is portrayed as being "kooky and forced down the throat" of
persons who care not to celebrate it.....

There are different holiday celebrations throughout the year that people
do not care to participate in BUT that does not make you a bad American; Why is KWANZAA the only holiday that is singled out?
Kwaanza is a pile of crap. I saw Kwaanza poster in classrooms and a teacher told he "had" to teach it and its principles. It's a pile of crap.

Let's be "oh-so PC."

It's bullsh*t.



Posted by: Rich46yo

Thats the problem with America today. Every special interest group wants to change the constitution so it fits their own vision of what this country should be. The Liberals are infamous for this and if theres one huge block to me supporting liberal parties its that. For the record Im against an amendment banning homosexual marriage becaue I believe the constitution shouldnt be tampered with. Let the issue be judged for constitutionality as it is.

If its judged as constitutional? Then so be it! Then the states have a right to decide it and it should be done so by a vote. "Marriage" is such a personal issue that it should not be tampered with by re-writing the US Constitution. Which should NEVER!!! be tampered with.......take care................Rich



Posted by: MTN WARRIOR

Your such a brainwashed Republican. "WE dont want to make the decision and piss people off, so lets say the states should decide.Then we can blame the democrats for which ever way it doesnt go".



Posted by: Rich46yo

The idea behind the US of A was for the states to have equal say, actually more, in the lives of Americans as does the federal Govt. The consitution should never be messed with in such matters. Actually if I was such a "brainwashed republican" I'd be screaming FOR a constitutional amendment banning such marriages. What Im calling for is the exact opposite.

Maybe you should read your current events before you post here. Or are you that "brainwashed"?....................take care.......Rich



Posted by: DFINEST

Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Snafu
Kwaanza is a pile of crap. I saw Kwaanza poster in classrooms and a teacher told he "had" to teach it and its principles. It's a pile of crap.

Let's be "oh-so PC."

It's bullsh*t.
BUT you have no objection to HALLOWEEN being taught,
which happens every year with decorations, costumes, and every other conceivable form of comercialization...

KWANZAA isn't required teaching in all school districts,
I know it isn't here where I live BUT
I have to accept halloween...

Again I ask you, WHY is KWANZAA bashed but you accept halloween?
I don't celebrate either.



Posted by: MaxMirkin

Because you get candy?



Posted by: DFINEST



yeah, like M&M's, huh man?



Posted by: MaxMirkin

M&M's........cute........





Posted by: ZECH

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