For the same reason the church/religions exists. Mind control... kids are more likely to listen and behave if they're threatened with no presents, easter candy, or whatever that is magically under control of a mystical creature they can't bat their tiny little eyes at or soften up with their tears. .

I did it because it was great fun for my kids. Most kids, unlike most adults, aren't cynical and believe the world is magical. Not only is an having an active imagination not bad, it's absolutely essential for a healthy mind.

When my kids got old enough, I told them the truth. They weren't bitter and appreciated all that I'd done for them. They still like to pretend that Santa and the Easter Bunny are real, but I get all the hugs.

So don't be bitter because your mom helped to make your childhood magical. It hasn't robbed of nothing and helped to make your childhood more fun.

Go give your mom a hug.

I did it because it was great fun for my kids. Most kids, unlike most adults, aren't cynical and believe the world is magical. Not only is an having an active imagination not bad, it's absolutely essential for a healthy mind.

When my kids got old enough, I told them the truth. They weren't bitter and appreciated all that I'd done for them. They still like to pretend that Santa and the Easter Bunny are real, but I get all the hugs.

So don't be bitter because your mom helped to make your childhood magical. It hasn't robbed of nothing and helped to make your childhood more fun.

Go give your mom a hug.

I've never understood this.

I feel cheated by my parents for forcing me to believe shenanigans for my first decade on this planet. I feel like they set me back by instilling this bullshit in my brain while going out of their way to hide the truth from me.

My kids from day one are going to be told the truth unless somebody here can convince me that there is a reason why my cunt mother would be so cruel...

This is a good post.

I'm curious though, why is it essential for a healthy mind?

My parents did the same, although I learned the truth early through my older brother. I was much more resentful for a time in my life over the many years I was forced to go to church. But in a way, that help clarify things for me, and gave me a greated understanding of why people believe in religions, even though I do not believe in god. A working knowledge of the old testament served me very well educationally as well, primarily due to my decision to major in English Literature. Without it, I would have had a much harder time understanding all the allusions to the bible in literature. In any case, I don't think the time is wasted, it's only a part of development.

Santa is a lot of fun as Doms said for the kids, so that is number one. My daughter is almost ten and still believes in him with ferver to the point she has convinced her best friend that he is still real even ater her mom told her he wasn't. The threat of santa not bringing presents is also how I get my daughter to practice hours of grueling chinese caligraphy ( he writes her a note every christmas telling her how proud he is). Of course, I'm not sure what I am going to do now that she is ten and almost about to not believe in santa.

if its positive reinforcement you're looking for, why does a fairy tale element have to be involved?

That's a cop out answer.

Explain your reasoning, pronto.

When you see your kid's face light up on Christmas morning because Santa brought him something you'll see that it's worth it. The first couple years it's just another day for them, but from three on up it's a lot of fun. For them and for you.

I think most people don't get angry with their parents lying to them about Santa and the Easter bunny.

it's easier than saying you need to learn chinese so that in 20 years it will make you marketable in a global economy that will demand more than just "talent" in engineering, science, business whatever. My brother has a six figure position in IT as a project manager for an international actuarial/software company because he can globe trot and speak 4 languages. He only has B.S. from Princeton competing against PHd from MITs, but they need someone who can oversee other software engineers who work outside this country. International busineesess and skills will always have a better chance of surviving when the domestic business goes to shit.

That and my mom utilized the same exact tools and the three of us didn't fare too badly.( for us it was learning english and Hindi) ( there was no santa for us but there is a buddah that is essentially the same thing... Hotei buddah who is the guy with the big fat round belly you see as a cheesy decoration in chinese restaurants.)

I don't disagree that kids get excited. But it's the present they're lighting up for, not Santa.

It definitely adds a fun element to Christmas, I agree, but Jews have made it centuries without a fairy tale - unless Hannahkuh Harry is real?

I don't disagree that kids get excited. But it's the present they're lighting up for, not Santa.

It definitely adds a fun element to Christmas, I agree, but Jews have made it centuries without a fairy tale - unless Hannahkuh Harry is real?

You should also consider that your parents didn't take you to church because they didn't like you, quite the opposite, actually.

Also, depending on the religion, you spent time with family and friends in a nurturing, caring environment. That's not a bad thing, either.

All very true. Except for church always being a nurturing, caring environment, but that's another issue. I remember righteous indignation about it from my youth, and I did come to realize they only had the best of intentions. My parents were both wonderful, caring parents who wanted nothing but the best for their children. I was very, very lucky.

Completely sarcastic with that. I love my Mother with all of my heart and she knows that. I would also have no problem telling my Mother that I called her a cunt on a message board in jest. That's because she's not terrible at parenting like most.

I've never understood this.

I feel cheated by my parents for forcing me to believe shenanigans for my first decade on this planet. I feel like they set me back by instilling this bullshit in my brain while going out of their way to hide the truth from me.

My kids from day one are going to be told the truth unless somebody here can convince me that there is a reason why my cunt mother would be so cruel...

I hate Christmas! I feel like an ass every Christmas when I think about the stupid shit I asked for when my parents struggled to make ends meet. Four-wheelers, trampolines, tons and tons of toys and shit. I did it because I thought it came from the north pole.

I appreciate what they were trying to do. They were just trying to be good parents, but they were suckered. They get tricked into thinking they weren't good parents if they didn't buy me and my brother ridiculous amounts of expensive shit. Now I'm an adult, I try to return the favor buying them expensive shit.

In the end, it is a scam. I buy people tons of expensive shit while they buy me tons of expensive shit. We both end up spending ourselves into debt trying not to feel guilty for being a scrooge. In the mean time, stores are making a killing, and we go broke. Santa is the biggest marketing scam ever played on Americans.

Here is an idea, end this Santa Clause bullshit. I loved gifts as a kid. What kid doesn't? But It wouldn't have left an empty hole in my soul had I never believed in a fat bearded man sneaking down my chimney to bring me free toys. Instead, lets everyone take an extra week off during Christmas time. Save the money you would have spent on over priced cloths and video game consoles, and use it to spend more time with family, have some beers and a few laughs, and unwind.

She perpetrated a lie for the first ten years of your life! How is that not terrible?

Seriously, Santa, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, et al. are often family traditions associated with gift giving and happiness.

Let your children enjoy the magic of imagination and creative storytelling while they can. The World will erase those pleasures soon enough.

I hate Christmas! I feel like an ass every Christmas when I think about the stupid shit I asked for when my parents struggled to make ends meet. Four-wheelers, trampolines, tons and tons of toys and shit. I did it because I thought it came from the north pole.

I appreciate what they were trying to do. They were just trying to be good parents, but they were suckered. They get tricked into thinking they weren't good parents if they didn't buy me and my brother ridiculous amounts of expensive shit. Now I'm an adult, I try to return the favor buying them expensive shit.

In the end, it is a scam. I buy people tons of expensive shit while they buy me tons of expensive shit. We both end up spending ourselves into debt trying not to feel guilty for being a scrooge. In the mean time, stores are making a killing, and we go broke. Santa is the biggest marketing scam ever played on Americans.

Here is an idea, end this Santa Clause bullshit. I loved gifts as a kid. What kid doesn't? But It wouldn't have left an empty hole in my soul had I never believed in a fat bearded man sneaking down my chimney to bring me free toys. Instead, lets everyone take an extra week off during Christmas time. Save the money you would have spent on over priced cloths and video game consoles, and use it to spend more time with family, have some beers and a few laughs, and unwind.

Why though?

Again, I just don't udnerstand why.

If the world is going to erase those pleasures, why not prepare your kid from the get go?

Why though?

Again, I just don't udnerstand why.

If the world is going to erase those pleasures, why not prepare your kid from the get go?

So, as a young child, if you're parents told you it was them and not Santa that brought the toys you'd have asked for nothing? Sure... Young kids don't understand that sort of thing.

As an adult, I enjoy Christmas and giving gifts. Not only to my family, but to my close friends. I don't go into debt doing it, either.

You really do seem to hate everything and enjoy almost nothing. Having a celebration involving gift-giving and well-wishing to others probably isn't your thing.

I going to start calling you the last word bender as a pun related to that shitty movie and your need to twist other people's words into something you can argue with. My entire post flew over your head at light speed.

I hate everything? Sure, I'm a bitter cynical fuck, but I think taking a vacation to spend more time with friends and family is a better bang for your buck than buying kids $600 xboxes that will be junk in 3 years when the parent's retirements are vanishing and many can't even pay their mortgage. Maybe I would be happier if I could find joy in staving third world countries like you do.

I also have very deep seated reasons for the things I believe. I don't know, maybe listening to my parents fight about money 11 months out of the god damn year might have something to do with it. Then at around age 13 or 14 I start reflecting on all of the Christmas mornings where they easily dropped three to five thousand dollars on me and my brother.

Really mom and pops? Fucking really? I just heard you guys having a knock down drag out fight over spending too much money on grocers, but I look into the garage and I see a $3000 ATV. Even a young teenager starts to put the puzzle pieces together, and realize that asking for ridiculous shit when my parents are losing their minds trying to manage their finances and provide for me and my brother was selfish. Since then, I haven't asked for shit, and I never will. Not asking for shit still means they go out and buy me shit every Christmas that they can't afford, and I still buy them shit I can't afford meanwhile I can't stop thinking in my head how much I wish they would keep the money. With the way things are going now, they are going to need that money a lot more than I need a designer watch or new cloths. If I need something, I go out and buy it myself.

Fuck Christmas! It has devolved into an evil holiday that preys on the good qualities of people, and perverts their sense of duty and altruism by convincing people to spending tons of money on consumer goods to keep shitty companies out of the red for the year. So, lets get rid of it. Stop telling over privileged spoiled ass kids that magical elves are building them a shiny new play station 3 in the north pole.

So what you're saying is that as a kid, if Christmas didn't exist, that you wouldn't have asked for all kinds of shit? You need to rethink that.

Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla!

So what your saying is batman and the joker were brothers. Never in the DC comics was that ever hinted at. You are wrong, and I think you need to rethink that assumption of yours.

You don't have kid, do you?

I don't, and I was being at least 30% sarcastic. In today's society a lot of religious or holiday tales and characters are fun for kids and provide imaginative ways to teach certain desirable traits in people. I don't disagree that santa clause, the easter bunny, jesus, what-have-you all can provide a superb foundation for teaching virtuous behavior or bringing joy to ppl, but a lot of these things have roots in behavior control... a tool we all know isn't always used to the advantage of everyone in the equation.... I will say that if I do ever have children I'll play the santa card for some time, for a lot of different reasons.

So, in short, you're saying that Christmas is evil, not to be gotten rid of, and then we'll all magically be better off.

I don't know, maybe listening to my parents fight about money 11 months out of the god damn year might have something to do with it. (snip)

Really mom and pops? Fucking really? I just heard you guys having a knock down drag out fight over spending too much money on grocers, but I look into the garage and I see a $3000 ATV.(snip)

I don't know what the hell this sentence means. Also, you might be better off understanding me if you ask me to clarify something instead of starting every reply with "so, what you are saying is..."

That shit is annoying as fuck, because most of the time you get it wrong, and then go off on a rebuttal to things I never said and ideas I never meant to convey. You are trying to read between the lines, and that is fucking impossible to do with me. My thought processes are chaotic to say the least. But, I re-read my posts in this thread, and I am convinced that I was abundantly clear except for few declarations that were meant to be taken as a joke.

Keep into consideration that you are trying to interpret the thoughts of a deeply disturbed mind. I have been up for three days now just because I didn't feel like taking my meds. I haven't had a manic episode of this quality in months, so I am enjoying it as best I can. It is rare for me to have this level of clarity and speed of thought.

So, if you really do want clarification, here is the long version with no lines to read between. I'll take you for a ride through my thoughts. My parents were, are, and always will be fucking nuts. I have met a lot of mental cases in my life, but no one comes close to the level of neurosis and insanity as my parents while at the same time maintaining a level of superhuman functionality and duty to family. No two people could brutalize each other as efficiently as they could, while staying married nearly 50 years now. I never once in my entire life saw them kiss, hug, or even show affection toward one another. I believe they hate each other, but also have a sick dependency on each other. Despite all of this, they busted their ass to make sure I felt loved. Perhaps they put all of their eggs in one basket in a feeble attempt to justify their miserable pathetic existences trying to make sure their children were happy.

Their efforts were in vain. See, shit piles of Christmas presents do not erase the memories of the months leading up to December. I can't remember how many mornings I walked into the living room to find the evidence of a fight the night before. Broken class on the floor, coffee stains in the carpet, blood all over the place. I didn't even have to wonder, because I already knew what happened. My dad's bruised and cut face and the strangle marks around my moms neck told me everything I needed to know. My dad would tell me good morning as blood ran down his face, and my mom would walk into the living room with a smile on her face and ask me if I was hungry and wanted anything to eat.

Holy fucking Christ! What awesome power of self delusion two people would have to have to pull that off, and to be so convincing that the entire situation was normal that I believed it was normal. That is one example of about 30 situations I observed, so I know there most be 20 or 30 more that I didn't observe. I also knew that many of the fights started over money.

Christmas rolls around, and I am getting all of this expensive shit. I have repeatedly witnessed my parents trying to kill each other over balancing the checkbook, and now I am getting over $3,000 worth of gifts. I didn't want any of it anymore, not at that cost. I was too young to understand that they were going to throw down no matter what. The money was just the excuse. But I was an early teen before I figured that out, and the seed had already been planted. I hated Christmas as much as I hated anything in my life. It was easier for me to blame Christmas for why my parents were so hateful and violent towards one another than it was to blame them.

I explained all of that so that I could say this, and you would understand it completely. Don't ever fucking make assumptions about me and what I would or wouldn't do. Don't ever fucking make assumptions about why I believe the things I believe. You know only the tiny piece of myself that I am willing to share with you. You can't even begin to know how little you know about my motivations.

It's no wonder you hate people, Christmas, and most things.

My parents were, are, and always will be fucking nuts.

You'll probably do it from the reasons a lot of parents, myself included, do it. It brings a lot of pleasure to create special moments for your children. It's pretty much like doing any real good deed; you're doing it for the benefit of someone else, but you get a really good feeling doing it.

As for controlling ideologies, it's not just some religions that use it, political parties are just as bad. Hell, if you can make anyone feel as though their a group and that there's an opposing "them", you have the opportunity for control.

the US is the land of illusion why the fuck not!

a lot of people do things just out of tradition, etc. personally I don't waste time on anything not based on reality.

Wtf why? lol Why let kids have fun while they're kids? What, you never played make believe, Cowboys and Indians, or army, or pro wrestler as a child?

And since the world will eventually crowd out those opportunities to enjoy carefree imaginative activities, it's better that you're first in line to punch your child on the nose?

you feel good lying to your children about where their presents came from?

Fine. Ask, don't listen.

I don't have a rambling mind. I know what I believe and I state it. I've stated clearly what my thoughts on this subject, especially how they relate to the fun of the children and my thoughts as a parent.

Tell your kids that neither Santa or the Easter Bunny exist. Knock yourself out.

I have no more interest for this topic.

Its all about the imagination. A kid with a good imagination can become a very good adult with that imagination.

i can watch the same actor be 15 different people in 15 different movies and get caught up in the movie and enjoy it. maybe if i had a childhood full of harsh reality and no imaginative exercise it would not be the same.

Why do people tell their kids lies like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?

Simple -> to put the blame on someone/something else for bad gifts or no gifts.

The toothfairy is awesome, and so is tinkerbell. All those other weirdo fabractions.

I did it because it was great fun for my kids. Most kids, unlike most adults, aren't cynical and believe the world is magical. Not only is an having an active imagination not bad, it's absolutely essential for a healthy mind.

When my kids got old enough, I told them the truth. They weren't bitter and appreciated all that I'd done for them. They still like to pretend that Santa and the Easter Bunny are real, but I get all the hugs.

So don't be bitter because your mom helped to make your childhood magical. It hasn't robbed of nothing and helped to make your childhood more fun.

Go give your mom a hug.

I somewhat agree.
I would be able now to fantasize more about reality, than to hate it and wish it were better if I had known this was it from the get go.

Imagination is not secluded to fairy tales. If I had been raised on reality rather than fiction than I'd be better able to use my imagination in everyday life now.

Think it'd be better to raise your children with the truth being a priority.

I somewhat agree.
I would be able now to fantasize more about reality, than to hate it and wish it were better if I had known this was it from the get go.

Imagination is not secluded to fairy tales. If I had been raised on reality rather than fiction than I'd be better able to use my imagination in everyday life now.

Think it'd be better to raise your children with the truth being a priority.