Training Body Parts Twice Per Week [Forum Archive]

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Training Body Parts Twice Per Week

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Posted by: pwloiacano

I am looking for some feedback from the forum on this subject.

Here is what I am doing right now.

Chest:
One heavy day -- about 10-12 total sets
3 days later light day -- 5-6 total sets (mainly dumbell work)

Bi's / Tri's:
One heavy day -- about 7-9 sets each
3 days later light day -- 5 sets each

Back:
One Heavy Day -- about 18 sets
3 days later light day -- about 8-9 sets

Shoulders:
I rarely do a lot of direct shoulder work because after doing heavy benches, my shoulders cannot take another heavy pressing session all the time in a weeks time. So, I only do shoulders maybe every other week. However, I add some side laterals on chest day as they are a good exercise that does not effect my shoulder pain. Usually seated pressing (especially dumbells) and upright rowing are the culprits there.

Legs:
I have tried to go twice per week, but some weeks, my knee tendons are really feeling stressed and sore. So, I play that by ear and train them twice per week only if I feel good enough.

I also ride my bike to the gym about 90% of the time before all my workouts. Round trip is about 8 miles.

Doing twice per week workouts have really helped put some size on my arms and that is why I am trying it with other body parts. I especially want to make more progress with my back. I am 45 years old and I do not want to over-do it. I am not sure if I am going down the road to overtraining.

I would welcome any feedback from the forum on the concept of doing twice per week workouts (heavy day & light day).

I look forward to some feedback.

Posted by: ceazur

Sub'd.. Im interested also. I have been told if you do something like this, as long as your body feels completely recovered then your good to go. BUT you may need an extra recovery day when its all said and done.

Posted by: Built

I like training this way also; we fossils need to respect the need to recover, believe me, I hear you.

I train legs often. Lately I do leg work almost every workout, but not much - for instance, I may do three sets of 8-rep squats on a day where I train heavy for back, and then possibly toss in a little shoulder work. I find by spreading my workouts out this way, I recover better and my workouts don't leave me trashed. Really heavy squats might only happen every two or three weeks for me; the higher rep stuff isn't what I enjoy, but my knees and my ego have come to an agreement and this seems to be the best compromise at the moment. Getting old sucks, but it beats the alternative.

If you're trying to bring up back, split it into two workouts - one with horizontal pulling, and one with vertical pulling. Put deadlifts in on a day where you don't otherwise train back and you'll probably find your back comes up better. You could start by writing out your current workout, and then rearranging the lifts so you split legs across two workouts, back across two workouts, and deads on a day you don't otherwise train back (for instance, you could have a day with off-the-floor deads, followed by Romanian deads call it your heavy hamstring day. You could toss in some less-taxing upper body work that day, perhaps dips or other tricep work, and maybe abs)

Posted by: pwloiacano

Thanks Built. I was hoping that you would answer this.

I currently do deadlifts on my leg day as my last exercise after about 6 sets of hams. It goes like this:
Squats (as deep as my body will allow me to go down). 3 sets -- rep range 12-15. I have gone heavier. For example, about 10 days ago, I did 5 sets and did 405 for a triple. My knee tendons were very sore.
Leg Presses: 2 sets of 12-15 reps
Leg Extensions: 2-3 sets of 25 - 30 reps per set ( real good burn )
Lying Leg Curls: 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps
Seated Leg curls: 3 sets of 10-15 reps
Deadlifts: 5 sets of 6-10 reps. I do them Dorian Yates style. I only bend my knees a bit and go down and stretch, but not all the way to the floor. I guess you could call it a type of rack pull. Whenever I do these heavy, my upper back and hamstrings are always sore the next day.
Then, I will try to train them about 3 days later. I did this after my heavy day I mentioned above. I got through it, but my knee tendons were screaming, so I skipped my next scheduled leg workout.

As for back, my heavy day is as follows:

Dumbell Pullovers: 3-4 sets 8-10 reps
Chin ups: wide grip ; neutral grip ; underhand -- using the assisted machine at this point as I can only perform a couple with my own bodyweight. 2 sets each 6-10 reps.
T-Bar Rows: 3 sets of 7-10 reps
Underhanded Barbel rows: 3 sets of 8-12 reps each
Stiff Armed Pulldowns: 2 sets of 15 reps each.
** I also add in a couple sets of face pulls & shoulder shrugs after that.

Back - Light Day:
Chin - ups : three different grips -- 2 sets each
Cable Rows: 3-5 sets. Using a lat pulldown bar. Overhand and underhanded grips. 10-15 reps. THEN DONE

Thanks again Built. Let me know your feedback.

Posted by: SuperLift

Ive been hitting legs twice a week in an attempt to bring them up. Working good so far, just make sure you get plenty of nutrients to repair and sleep to recover.

Posted by: sassy69

The only thought I had, with regard to getting older and the fact that you've gotten results from the 2x/week arms days - are you still doing that for arms? You might consider a larger recovery cycle for arms - i.e. every other week do your 2 days of arms, and on the opposite week do only 1 day.

The reason I bring this up is that you tend to work your arms anyway on chest & back day, which you're now doubling up to 2x/week. In my 3 decades of training, the biggest problem I've had and longest standing problem I've had has been w/ arm tendonitis - I experienced my first elbow-ish tendonitis in 1992 and went thru some physical therapy for it. Its been an on-going issue that has peaked or subsided over the last 20 yrs, but its always there. It started w/ what the PT called it "the opposite of tennis elbow", and have had variations of that in both arms from wrist to elbow to bicep insertion, and the other issue is shoulder. Shoulder issues probably date back to the early 90s as well but I never really had it explode until 2008. I had it MRI'd for a potential rotator tear but they never found anything - just some arthritis, and a lot of general wear & tear on the tendons. The times it has been the biggest issue has been on skull crusher or any sort of press work.

Anyway my point being, these joints tend to be the ones that show tendonitis first and once you get it, it never really goes away. So to that end, I'd give particularly arms more consideration in recovery time, given that they are not an isolated muscle group.

Posted by: Anabolic5150

Sassy is spot on with her post. Besides the time I was out of the gym due to rotator cuff surgery, I've missed more days or had to train around repetitive use injuries more then anything. Tendinitis, sore ligaments, those little things that just hang on for what seems like ever. Been training 30+ years and I remember those things as being the most annoying.

Posted by: sassy69

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

Sassy is spot on with her post. Besides the time I was out of the gym due to rotator cuff surgery, I've missed more days or had to train around repetitive use injuries more then anything. Tendinitis, sore ligaments, those little things that just hang on for what seems like ever. Been training 30+ years and I remember those things as being the most annoying.

This is pretty much where I am at too. The only legitimate injury I have from the gym is when a buddy accidentally knocked a 25 lb plate on my big toe. Everything else I have - which btw, is what is driving me out of an 11 career in competitive bodybuilding - is the accumulation of tendonitis issues or some sort of joint issue in every joint in my body .. literally. The best advice I could ever give anyone is to give attention to the little joints and don't overwork them because they are the first to go. Expect it. Its just a matter of when.

Posted by: shidztomes

Wow ... I'm not sure If I could have this kind of built.

Posted by: Built

As other wiser, stronger and bigger (than me) people have noted, you do not want to wreck your joints or tendons. They never, ever forgive you for this indiscretion.

pwloiacano, deads should, in my opinion, always come first in a workout. They're a taxing and demanding movement, and need your full, fresh energy in order to be done safely and effectively at the heavy weights you'll want to use for this most excellent of lifts.

Try this: make a list of every exercise you do and how many reps and sets you perform of it over the course of the week. Categorize each lift under the following:

Horizontal push
Horizontal pull
Vertical push
Vertical pull
Hamstring/posterior chain dominant
Quadriceps dominant
accessory/concentration/core (ie bicep curls, leg curls, leg extensions, calf raises, abs)

Set your workouts up to combine these movements as I indicated above, starting with a heavy compound and ending with accessory work.

For example, if you are going to spread your leg work across two workouts, you could pair quads with, say, biceps and do this:

Heavy barbell squats 5x5 (or 3x8, or alternate between these rep ranges, going heavier of course for the 5-rep work)
Leg presses 3x12
Seated leg extensions - I only like to see these done as the top third of the range of motion, and they're great for a killer burn without destroying your knees done as a couple or three of 15-20 rep sets at the end.

You could do my bicep workout after or before this if you wish. (accessory work can be done before the heavy stuff if it's for a different muscle group and isn't particularly taxing. Nobody gets trashed from a bicep workout. If you want to do them first, while you're fresh, go for it. It's a useful trick that can help if you're trying to bring up a lagging part)

You could use this basic setup for hams, perhaps done three or four days later:

Off the floor deads 5x5
Romanian deadlifts OR GHRs or Good Morning 3x8
SHELC or leg curls 3x10-15 reps (I really like SHELC here. Do 'em one leg at a time if they get too easy)

You could pair this with, say, shoulders if you like, or triceps. I wouldn't suggest pairing it with chest, as you may be trashed after this but you could do a light chest workout and a heavier one on another day if you wanted to bring up chest.

Back you could break into horizontal and vertical planes:

Horizontal back

5x5 or 3x8 unsupported t-bar rows
3x8 one arm dumbbell rows
3x12-15 cable rows or motorcycle rows
You could train calves and abs this day if you like, or you could train chest or tris with this workout. You could also do some lighter leg work, something like walking lunges and farmer walks, or one-leg-at-a-time leg press.

Vertical back

self assisted chinups - try for 3x8, when you get there add weight. 5x5 is also fine. Keep your grip at or narrower than shoulder-width and use a neutral grip if possible.
Lat pulldowns - do them one arm at a time, like you're climbing up a wall. 3x10
Pullovers - 2-3x10 or so reps

As mentioned with horizontal back, any of the above pairings could work.

Over the course of the week, try to balance your push with your pull, your upper with your lower, and your hams with your quads. Mix and match accessory/concentration/core work into these, possibly between sets of the main lifts if they don't tax you in an effort to manage time. Keep your total work sets to about 16-24 per workout at the most, dropping down your training volume and ditching most high-rep and accessory work when cutting. You can afford more volume on bulking calories.

Does this help you set things up?

Originally Posted by pwloiacano

Thanks Built. I was hoping that you would answer this.

I currently do deadlifts on my leg day as my last exercise after about 6 sets of hams. It goes like this:
Squats (as deep as my body will allow me to go down). 3 sets -- rep range 12-15. I have gone heavier. For example, about 10 days ago, I did 5 sets and did 405 for a triple. My knee tendons were very sore.
Leg Presses: 2 sets of 12-15 reps
Leg Extensions: 2-3 sets of 25 - 30 reps per set ( real good burn )
Lying Leg Curls: 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps
Seated Leg curls: 3 sets of 10-15 reps
Deadlifts: 5 sets of 6-10 reps. I do them Dorian Yates style. I only bend my knees a bit and go down and stretch, but not all the way to the floor.

You just described what is generally known as a Romanian deadlift. Some folks call these stiff leg dead lifts, but I prefer the Romanian nomenclature, since the legs are not straight, but rather, slightly bent as you mention, then kept stiff. The barbell should remain in contact with your body and legs the whole way up and the whole way down, stopping only when you are about to lose the arch in your back. This is a great movement for hamstrings.

I guess you could call it a type of rack pull. Whenever I do these heavy, my upper back and hamstrings are always sore the next day.
Then, I will try to train them about 3 days later. I did this after my heavy day I mentioned above. I got through it, but my knee tendons were screaming, so I skipped my next scheduled leg workout.

As for back, my heavy day is as follows:

Dumbell Pullovers: 3-4 sets 8-10 reps
Chin ups: wide grip ; neutral grip ; underhand -- using the assisted machine at this point as I can only perform a couple with my own bodyweight. 2 sets each 6-10 reps.

Do real chins, and never wider than shoulder width unless you want to trash your rotator cuffs. You'll get better lat stimulation with a grip that allows the force to go straight down, than you will be triangulating the force through your shoulders and outward. Review trigonometric functions, vectors and net force for more on this. Or just trust me; either way.

T-Bar Rows: 3 sets of 7-10 reps
Underhanded Barbel rows: 3 sets of 8-12 reps each
Stiff Armed Pulldowns: 2 sets of 15 reps each.
** I also add in a couple sets of face pulls & shoulder shrugs after that.

Back - Light Day:
Chin - ups : three different grips -- 2 sets each
Cable Rows: 3-5 sets. Using a lat pulldown bar. Overhand and underhanded grips. 10-15 reps. THEN DONE

Thanks again Built. Let me know your feedback.

Posted by: Anabolic5150

Originally Posted by sassy69

I deal with joint and tendon pain every day, it sucks. But after 30 years of doing this crazy thing that we love so much, it's expected I guess. I just try my best to train around things when I can, try to do what I can to alleviate the pain and minimize any future damage if possible. It isn't easy, but at 51, I have to train smarter then the younger cats.

Posted by: TampaSRT

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

I don't call it working out anymore. I now call it pain management. The pain just moves around to different areas on different days.

Posted by: sassy69

Originally Posted by TampaSRT

I don't call it working out anymore. I now call it pain management. The pain just moves around to different areas on different days.

This is how I feel these days. Really takes away the desire to even bother going back in the gym. However I pay so much more when I get lazy and spend the day on the couch. My 20 min active warmup is mandatory if I want to even do a bodywt squat and expect to come out of the squat part w/o help. Once I"m warmed up, however, I"m pretty good. Then we just go back to the basics issues - tendonitis or the random tweak in my knees.

Ice ice baby is about all I can say.

However to keep things in perspective - I have to friends who just competed in the NPC Masters Nats at age 50+, and the amazing Dee Lazzsard has stated she will finally retire after competing pretty much every year, after winning the 65+ category in women's BB. So to that end, I think its on me to not sit back and just "accept" the shit I deal w/ today - there are many dimensions to lifting, and its time to put down the heavy stuff and go back to basics. My goal at the moment is a reasonable Turkish getup w/ kettlebells. I'm still at the part where I have an appt w/ the local trainer guy at my gym for "Kettlebells 101".. aka "This is a kettlebell & here is how you lift it".

Posted by: TampaSRT

I guess we are examples of the old saying 'no pain no gain'. The pain reminds me that I am working hard.

Posted by: Anabolic5150

I like "no pain means gains". Meaning if I take care of myself I can continue to train and grow.

Posted by: TampaSRT

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

I like "no pain means gains". Meaning if I take care of myself I can continue to train and grow.

I guess that is a good way of looking at it, I'll buy it

Posted by: carmineb

Originally Posted by TampaSRT

I don't call it working out anymore. I now call it pain management. The pain just moves around to different areas on different days.

lol tell me about it....

Posted by: pwloiacano

THANK YOU to all for your great feedback! This is why I love this site so much. There is no criticism, just good healthy and factual input that can be put to practical use.

I like Sassy's input on arms. It makes a lot of sense that with the extra work that I have incorporated with an additional light chest and back day. I am going to take that advice and only train arms twice per week every other week.

BUILT -- back to legs.

Today I did them and I decided to do my squats on the light to moderate weight side. 3 sets 185 x 12 ; 225 x 12 ; 275 x 10. Go figure, my knee tendons don't hurt at all!!!

I also did two sets of leg presses with moderate weight. 440 x 12 ; 530 x 12.

And three sets of leg extensions - two sets of 25 reps each and one at 20 reps.

Then went to hams:

3 sets lying leg curls -- 8 reps per set
3 sets seated leg curls -- 12 reps per set
5 sets RDL's. 135 x 15 ; 185 x 10 ; 225 x 8 ; 275 x 6 ; 135 x 15

I then rode my bike home with little to no effort needed. On that heavy day that I mentioned did, the bike ride home was absolute TORTURE !!!

What my plan is for my next leg workout this thursday was to do 3 sets of lighter squats in the 20 rep range per set. Then hit hamstrings again. What do you think of this idea? Also, would it be too much to do RDL's again? Or just maybe do a couple light high rep sets?? Let me know what you think. Thanks. Once you answer this, then I will go to the subject of your recommendations on back. But, lets do one at a time.

Posted by: Built

I like the quad stuff. I'll add the suggestion to only do the top third of the ROM for leg extensions. It's safer for the knees, and you get a wicked burn from it - not that the burn is such a big deal in and of itself, that's just lactate, but the partial ROM is under constant tension, something I sometimes like to tuck into the end of a leg workout. Seems to help my knees, too.

Re hams - I'd begin with the RDLs rather than leaving them to the end. Leg curls don't do a whole lot for hams. Try GHRs, good mornings, and SHELC.

I'm also a big fan of splitting up the leg work, pairing it with some upper body work.

Posted by: pwloiacano

Originally Posted by Built

I like the quad stuff. I'll add the suggestion to only do the top third of the ROM for leg extensions. It's safer for the knees, and you get a wicked burn from it - not that the burn is such a big deal in and of itself, that's just lactate, but the partial ROM is under constant tension, something I sometimes like to tuck into the end of a leg workout. Seems to help my knees, too.

Re hams - I'd begin with the RDLs rather than leaving them to the end. Leg curls don't do a whole lot for hams. Try GHRs, good mornings, and SHELC.

I'm also a big fan of splitting up the leg work, pairing it with some upper body work.

Thanks BUILT. Please define for me what GHRs and SHECL are. Sorry to be ignorant, just don't know what they are.

I also am training back on Wednesday. This was my plan for that day.

3 sets of chins with neutral grip as you recommended.
5-6 sets of seated cable rows - both overhand and underhand grip.
** I also do a couple sets each of reverse pec deck files & behind the back shoulder shrugs.

I saw your recommendation for horizontal & vertical days. Is it too much to do chins twice per week? It is the simplest exercise to do, and the one that I feel the most.

Posted by: JeepKuntry

Personally, I feel like you should do shoulders more frequently. Even if it is with lighter weight. Sometimes I do take a day and do a few sets from each muscle group on a weekend but it's only about once every other month. I work out legs every week. I have chicken legs, but they still need the same amount of attention as my upper body. Again, try lower weights and do it more frequently.

Posted by: sassy69

Originally Posted by pwloiacano

GHR = glute ham raises (‪glute ham raise without machine‬&rlm; - YouTube - lots of ways to do this if you have a machine/bench or not)

SHELC = Supine Hip Extension to Leg Curl (‪SHELC‬&rlm; - YouTube)

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Training Body Parts Twice Per Week

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