Advice from the experts. [Forum Archive]

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Advice from the experts.

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Posted by: atvbulldog

New to the board and new to any enhancement supplements. Been a long time natural lifter for 32 years on and off, until some suffering some severe trauma 4 years ago. It screwed my pituitary gland and now take Androgel for TRT. That doesn't get me where I want to be. So I took DMZ rx for 6 weeks two tablets per day. I take blood work every two months no matter what and my AST (52) and ALT (80) came back elevated. I expected this to some degree having only stopped taking DMZ for around 10 days before blood work. All the rest lipid panel etc. came back fine. I would appreciate any input from more experienced people. Yes, the DMZ worked incredibly well for me. Strength, mass and definition. Nice to meet everyone here. Thank you in advance.

Posted by: OldSchoolLifter

I'm not sure if I found a question in your post?

Posted by: atvbulldog

I guess my question is are those numbers normal after only a six week cycle of DMZ? Can these numbers be expected to change within a few more weeks? How critical are they in determining any kind of real liver damage?

Posted by: TonyMack

Honestly I think you'd be better off getting more from your TRT program. Open to intramuscular injections? Talk to your doctor about using a more effective testosterone delivery method.

Posted by: atvbulldog

I am not good with needles but may be forced to inject because of costs. I did think very highly of the results with the DMZ oral. My local doctor is going off endo's recommendation from Mayo Clinic. This causes confusion between them and I doubt they would prescribe enough Test to get anabolic results. Mayo is very conservative and thought I was fine at Total T of 180 Free T 15. My local is more compassionate and liberal. I would love to find an anti-aging clinic within 100 miles of me.

Posted by: TonyMack

Originally Posted by atvbulldog

I am not good with needles but may be forced to inject because of costs. I did think very highly of the results with the DMZ oral. My local doctor is going off endo's recommendation from Mayo Clinic. This causes confusion between them and I doubt they would prescribe enough Test to get anabolic results. Mayo is very conservative and thought I was fine at Total T of 180 Free T 15. My local is more compassionate and liberal. I would love to find an anti-aging clinic within 100 miles of me.

Best of luck finding a new doc, but you will get much better TRT results with something like this:
50 mgs Test Cyp e3d
500 iu HCG e3d (day before Test)
Anastrozole as for AI as needed

Human Grade cyp using a 25 g needle will not be painful, and the results will be far superior. Frequent doses will keep your levels more stable and easier to control E2.

Run higher doses between blood draws and back off in time to convince your doc the dose he is prescribing is only getting you to the high end of normal. Some docs are loose with the prescription pad and will give you 150-200 week. Some, like trained endos, will not. Anti-aging clinics will likely give you what you ask for (within reason), but most are cash only and have compounding pharmacies that over charge. A good GP willing to help you is your best bet on a budget.

Back to your original question on liver damage, I wouldn't worry about long term damage from a 6 week dmz cycle. Your liver will heal itself and values should return to normal in a couple weeks.

Posted by: atvbulldog

Tony, Thank you, great advice, I came to the right place. This was the first time my liver panel ever came back high and it kinda freaked me out.

Posted by: Digitalash

6 weeks of dmz is kind of harsh, so I'm not surprised to see your lipids a little bit off. They should return to normal pretty quickly though so I wouldn't worry. Personally I think you'd be better off just running test and then returning to your normal trt in time for your blood tests though.

Posted by: atvbulldog

I don't know the protocol for asking another question but figured I could keep going with this thread. Am I right in thinking that I don't need any PCT if I went on larger Test "cycle" because my body has pretty much no natural production of Test on it's own. Doctors have said I will be on TRT for the rest of my life.

Posted by: TJTJ

The statements I make are for theoretical discussion only.

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Posted by: TonyMack

Originally Posted by atvbulldog

I don't know the protocol for asking another question but figured I could keep going with this thread. Am I right in thinking that I don't need any PCT if I went on larger Test "cycle" because my body has pretty much no natural production of Test on it's own. Doctors have said I will be on TRT for the rest of my life.

If you are on TRT and you decide to blast a higher dose for a while, you will just go back to your normal TRT dose for "recovery", so not a PCT in a sense to regain your natural production.

You mentioned before you have a pituitary issue, so I take it your hypogonadism is secondary? If so, the HCG will keep your balls producing. Has your doctor talked to you about HCG?

Posted by: TonyMack

Btw, I'm only giving you talking points for your doctor visits, and info from my own experience. I highly suggest working this stuff out with your doctor.

Posted by: heavyiron

Originally Posted by atvbulldog

New to the board and new to any enhancement supplements. Been a long time natural lifter for 32 years on and off, until some suffering some severe trauma 4 years ago. It screwed my pituitary gland and now take Androgel for TRT. That doesn't get me where I want to be. So I took DMZ rx for 6 weeks two tablets per day. I take blood work every two months no matter what and my AST (52) and ALT (80) came back elevated. I expected this to some degree having only stopped taking DMZ for around 10 days before blood work. All the rest lipid panel etc. came back fine. I would appreciate any input from more experienced people. Yes, the DMZ worked incredibly well for me. Strength, mass and definition. Nice to meet everyone here. Thank you in advance.

Usually docs get concerned once liver enzymes elevate 3-5 times upper limit. Since yours are not even close to that I would not worry at all.

Dehydration and weight lifting can increase these values so next time you get tested stop lifting weights for a week and drink plenty of fluids to see a real baseline.

Posted by: atvbulldog

Tony & Heavy and all, Yes, I am pretty well informed on all aspects hypogonadism. My GP is a friend and has been for thirty years. I have to admit that the few body building sites I have been on, and this one I finally started to post on, have taught me more about my problem then the endo's at Mayo Clinic ever did. One of those Dr.'s was a sports medicine specialist that claimed to work with thousands of pro athletes. The only good recommendation they gave me was not to get surgery on my pituitary gland. I understand that all advice given here is taken as reserve without medical opinion.

Posted by: TonyMack

Good luck bro, keep us posted on your progress.

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Advice from the experts.

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