I would go see an endo before trusting a saliva test. Blood work trumps all.

If it is low then start TRT and get your dose dialed in first, THEN the gears.

By the looks of things you should be doing a little more reading.

Good luck

test,tren,drols,ipam/cjc,igf-1 LR3 with a hint of slin

If you're going to cycle than 250mgs of test a week is pointless. That's barely above what a normal male produces in a week. for some people that's a trt dose. IMO, you need at least 400mgs for a decent cycle.

test,tren,drols,ipam/cjc,igf-1 LR3 with a hint of slin

I think a lot of vets are going to disagree, I'm staking a second compound; I would totally agree with you if I were doing test only. will I get better results with 400? For sure, but with greater sides. This is a first run and I'm prone to MPB, If things are going well at week 6, I might up it...

I think a lot of vets are going to disagree, I'm staking a second compound; I would totally agree with you if I were doing test only. will I get better results with 400? For sure, but with greater sides. This is a first run and I'm prone to MPB, If things are going well at week 6, I might up it...

Your wrong most vets on here would not agree. You should go back and read the sticky above titled first cycle. And then research the compounds your talking about using.

400 is a very low and safe dose. Test is actually one of the safest steroids. if you're worried about sides, then a test +primo cycle is your best bet IMO. Keep a proper dose of ai and you'll be fine.

And pct should be (if you're planning on it):

Clomid 100/100/75/50
Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5

My PCT is listed in my cycle and I'm sticking to it. I also like the Primo cycle

The Official PCT Thread - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums

400 is a very low and safe dose. Test is actually one of the safest steroids. if you're worried about sides, then a test +primo cycle is your best bet IMO. Keep a proper dose of ai and you'll be fine.

And pct should be (if you're planning on it):

Clomid 100/100/75/50
Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5

BS. A lot of guys have had no problem gaining 10lbs on Var only, Eq only or Primo only on first cycle. I'm adding more than a maintanance level of test. If I gain 10 keepable lbs with little sides and no fat gain, I'll be very happy. I'll then do it 2 more times.

If anything, I could up the Eq or Primo...I don't have to up the test.

I actually always do clomid 100/100/75/50 with the aromasin and it works like a mofo, even after tren. I do use hcg throughout though too.

My PCT is listed in my cycle and I'm sticking to it. I also like the Primo cycle

The Official PCT Thread - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums

Are you serious man? Listen to vibrant he was nice enough to respond to a thread that is stickied on the top. You are an idiot primo only would not get you shit, var only for a guy as fat as you would be useless. You want to gain 10 lbs I'm 185 5'11 and my lifts are bigger than yours. Youre a fatty that needs to lose 15pounds. stop argueing and start listening.

Sorry to be so blunt but that fucking pct is stupid. you're going to listen to pct advice from a company that sells over hyped supplements/pro hormones. You already have low test and you're risking complete shutdown.

You keep saying that you did alot of reading but you havent figured out a simple first cycle? You could read for about 5min on this site and figure it out. Listen to what you are being told. That is way too many compounds for a first cycle. Your goals are really no different than anyone elses. We all want to put on muscle, while either reducing or maintaining our fat level. Swallow your pride and listen to people who know. Good luck no matter what road you take.

C'mon man...I see your point but seriously...this shit as come a long way. I've read dozens of studies posted by some good guys on a lot of boards which discuss the need for less clomid when using HCG, added with the other compounds...I'm not too worried.

I'm still all ears though...you never stop learning.

For the other guys who are going to post, assume I've read a shit load...unilike most guys, I'll be getting blood work done throghout, if someting isn;t right, I'll make an adjustment...

Sorry I didn't realize you had such a gear stockpile considering this is your first cycle. If you want to get slightly more complex then definitely kickstart with prop, and finish with around 7weeks of var @50mg. Ideally you should go a little higher on the var but it's up to you if you want to grab some. You'll start making gains right out of the gate, have some solid time on test E to gain some weight and then the var should harden you up a bit at the end if your diet's on point. Sounds pretty good to me no?

hcg doesn't do anything to restart natural test production. post up the studies you are talking about because I believe you're missing the point somewhere(Im saying that's not the case though)

The bare minimum for clomid would be 50mg. and you need an ai for pct as well. if you dont want aromasin, check out formerone by black lion research. that's what I'll be using for pct after being on gear for 6-7months. pm if you want more info on that.

There are countless threads advicating HCG on cycle as it helps with reducing shut down, you can find them right here. I'm not saying you are wrong, I've just read too many other respected opinions and i'm not worried for a second that I'll perminately shut down, It's not like I'm doing tribulis for PCT.

I'll read more and maybe bump up the Clomid, you have raised my curiosity.

Are you on the same thread as everyone else. I looking at doing 250 test e (with a prop kicker (it's still fucking test) with Var starting 8 weeks into the cycle. This is too many compounds???

If your refering to my PCT, I could through some more shit in there too...I've got plenty of money to burn...

I wasn't talking about hcg on cycle, of course it keep your boys big and makes pct easier. it sounded like you expected hcg to restart your natural production.

Yes!! this is what I'm looking at for a first run. Carefull, some of the bros might think you're an idiot.

Whatever bro. Your cycle sucks and you dont wanna listen to anyone. 250 test is to low and your too fat for Var. Good luck anyway

NO ONE on this site thinks DL is an idiot he is still telling you to run test E at 500 a week. And notice how he said var at the end would harden you up because that is what primo and var are supposed to do. Thats also why I said your to fat for those compounds. How hard do you think your going to get at 25% body fat. A lot of guys will tell you those compounds are way more beneficial when you are 10% bf and lower.

Are you stupid? Var and Primo can put on mass and especially when combined with test. I never said I was cutting...and if you read my fucking first post you'd know why I'm carying more body fat.

For any other fucking idiot who feels they want to apply their goals to mine...think first.

I'm going on TRT cycle or no cycle. I'm doubling what I would on TRT and I'm adding a synergestic compound to get the result "I" want.

If you come to this thread to Troll, go somehwere else. Alternatively you can read before you comment!!!

Looks like your making an uninformed decision. And that your bad mouthing all the guys trying to help you. Good job aye

Also low test doesn't make you fat. There are many many men with low test that are extremely thin. By that standard wouldn't all women be fat?

The link in my thread is a real good read. I was going to go 100/100/75/75. but after reading about the Natty supps that help and using HCG on cycle, many feel these doses can be much lower. Clomid is toxic drug. The good thing is, I'll have plenty of ancillaries and if PCT takes 5 weeks...so be it...

Cheers

If someone want to bet me I can't put on 10 lean pounds with any of the above listed cycles, you're on...

All I asked was which one you liked better, despite the dose, for those who have actually run these cycles, which I'm guessing is half the posters...

No one is helping me and I'm not asking or it...

Bro I'll take that bet!!! Post before and afters in a journal and run 250 test and any of your other compounds in those amounts posted. you gain 10 lbs of muscle I'll apologize.

What ever you want. Cause it's not going to happen. Would you also like me to post you tube video after you tube video of guys with low test pinning that are not fat.

look, so you're saying that none of us tried to help you nor do you want it? Why make a thread then? Good luck but don't be surprised when not too many people help you after saying what you said.

Skinny, can you point me to some of your logs...that would be helpful...

Bro I'm 20 lbs less than you and squating 315*10 and I broke both my legs three years ago was in a hospital for two months and in a wheel chair for 4 months after then using a walker and then a cane. You are a weak know it all and will fail in gym just like you always have.

Bro I'm 20 lbs less than you and squating 315*10 and I broke both my legs three years ago was in a hospital for two months and in a wheel chair for 4 months after then using a walker and then a cane. You are a weak know it all and will fail in gym just like you always have.

That's what I looked like at the end of my first cycle. I pretty happy with it. Except for the silly face I'm making. Let's post up your "after" of the cycle that your posting hahaha and compare. And you missed my first post where I said I'm no veteran. Cause I'm on my secon blast of my first cycle but unlike you I listened to the advice givin to me. But hey post some pics fatty.

That's what I looked like at the end of my first cycle. I pretty happy with it. Except for the silly face I'm making. Let's post up your "after" of the cycle that your posting hahaha and compare. And you missed my first post where I said I'm no veteran. Cause I'm on my secon blast of my first cycle but unlike you I listened to the advice givin to me. But hey post some pics fatty.

Yeah I feel like one haha. You posted my journal that I posted thinking that people here haven't seen it lol. And even in that journal I ask for help saying i don't know it all. And I was doing you a favor posting in here regurgitating info that the vets are tired of. You know how many times people post this same thread. I'd figured I'd pass on what was passes to me. Guess I learned lesson.

People assumed I was looking for help, I was just looking for conversation and maybe some feed back on sucess/failures they experienced. People jump the gun a lot...it's human nature I guess.

I'm excited about my first cycle and I've made some decent gains on 1/4th the natural test of most of the guys here, since coming back from ilness...

I have enough gear for 6-7 cycles, I'm in no rush, I consider my cycles super TRT

Cheers.

You really don't understand this.

first cycle run your test. If you want to add in D-bol go for it.

Me think ur an idiot for not listening to others,.. you don';t need all the other thngs listed. You will get the same results with just test as you would with eq, tren and everything else.

You will blowup regardless of compounds.

at least my cock is still bigger

and I use AAS for their cutting properties... My post is solid advice to help you, then you want to be a jagoff. GICH

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250mg test e IS a trt dose for alot of people... 500 at least for a cycle bro. You'd basically be putting yourself just above high normal test levels, while shutting yourself down further. If you intend to do trt you should get on 200-250mg a week anyway. I'm telling you you'll be dissapointed with that cycle and the EQ is not going to do much in that time frame. Just run the 500mg test, kickstart with prop @ 100mg EOD and use a-dex. If you want throw in the var but I didn't realize how high your bf was, maybe save that for another cycle. Your diet is gonna be the most important thing though really not what gear you use.

and link to your pics?

show me up big guy?

If not, go suck a dick.

where does it say I curl 20's in my journal... I curl 35's.

Hope your first cycle goes well and hope when you grow up you change your shithead attitude. GL

You know what's funny man you keep comparing your lifts to ours. The difference between me and you is I don't think my lifts are impressive at all. And you keep saying how you "lift more than the average guy even with your test". You seem to think a lot of your self. I am the opposite, girls can lift what I lift. There are 60 year old men at my gym that rep 500 lb squats I feel like I'm nothing and have a lot to learn and long way to go to get to a level of any merit. But good luck with your trt.

Lol your lifts were never more than mine I lifted more than what you posted in high school hahah.

That's fucking idiotic advice even if you're joking. Dude is asking for help and that's the advice you give him? if you want to troll and joke around, do it in anything goes.

LOL

Your cock migh be the only thing bigger. Fucking guy has legs smaller than 16 year old girl and he's giving me AAS advice.

You may want to consume food with the 4 compounds you're stacking in your current cycle...it will help.

and link to your pics?

show me up big guy?

If not, go suck a dick.

You're a real fucking dipshit aren't you. You didn't read my post, you chose to pick out the points you wanted. I could not even squat the bar 18 months ago, because of ilness. In May I was squating 105 lbs X 10. By Dec I was back up to 315 X5. Been cutting for 4 weeks and now back down to 265 (natural, no cycles under my belt). What do you think I'm going to be at after a cycle and another year of training, once I'm on TRT.

Karma's a bitch, here's hoping you break another leg...oh I mean good luck with your training!

You can't talk to people like this in this section. Please take it to anything goes. If it continues we'll have to lock this thread.

Guys are trying to help and it seems as if you don't like what they are saying.

Chill.

No I'm a guy with 187 natty test levels Ass Hole and I've been reading a shit load for 2 years. If I can gain 6 clean lbs on 6 weeks dermcrine, clearly I can gain 10 lbs on any of the cycles above.

And who gives a shit what I lift, you did not read the first thread which was aimed at elliminating as many stupid posts as possible. I lift WAY more than the average guy.

My goals are not your goals.

Vibrant knows his shit, but he does not know what my goals is. I still appreciate his feedback though...

I just saw this thread Van. I am not sure anything I can add will help except good luck Bro!

I just saw this thread Van. im not sure that any advice I give will be even considered, so ehh do whatever you like!!!

I'm 6 weeks into my cycle, up 6lbs and 1" off my waist. Pretty well the result I was looking for, but I'm suprised how fast the progress is coming considering the haters on this thread.

New lifting stats

Squat 315 X 7
Bench 200 X 7 (bench will always suck, fucked up shoulders) Inclined DB Press 80's X 7
Deads, 315 X 7
Overhead press 135 X 7 (again, shoulders don't like this much, but better than military)
Bent over BB Row 185 X 7

After this cycle, I'll be doing mainly Oly lifts. I'm not really interested in getting bigger, just leaner and stronger.

For those who are contemplating their first cycle, I don't think there is anything wrong with low dose, as long as it fits your goals...don't buy into the test is best argument (and only at 500mg), if it were, bold would not be one of the top detected AAS found in pro atheletes these day...(specifically in MMA)...

By the way 6lbs is shit for your first cycle bro. You could have done that natty and now your even worse off than you were when you started, and for 6lbs was that really worth it lmao?? Not trying to be an ass but you shut down everyone who had something to say, and im not including the dudes you were arguing with, but the ones who offered good solid advice. Now you have XYZ posting a thread about you on Anything Goes, congrats on being IM's Most Ignorant Asshole!!!

Fixed for accuracy.

Gich.

I'm 6 weeks into my cycle, up 6lbs and 1" off my waist. Pretty well the result I was looking for, but I'm suprised how fast the progress is coming considering the haters on this thread.

New lifting stats

Squat 315 X 7
Bench 200 X 7 (bench will always suck, fucked up shoulders) Inclined DB Press 80's X 7
Deads, 315 X 7
Overhead press 135 X 7 (again, shoulders don't like this much, but better than military)
Bent over BB Row 185 X 7

After this cycle, I'll be doing mainly Oly lifts. I'm not really interested in getting bigger, just leaner and stronger.

For those who are contemplating their first cycle, I don't think there is anything wrong with low dose, as long as it fits your goals...don't buy into the test is best argument (and only at 500mg), if it were, bold would not be one of the top detected AAS found in pro atheletes these day...(specifically in MMA)...

Are you fucking stupid??? I'm only 6 weeks in, the Eq has barely kicked in. I'd be surprised if I don't put on 15Lbs and lose and inch or 2 in my waist. I'll be cycling for 15 weeks minimum...

READ ALL WORDS IN POST...

LMFAO!!!!

Any of these cycles will do, I just want to know what the vets think . I'm not going to change the dose much of anything, no matter what the folks say...consider my goal...

The original cycle I wanted to do...

15 weeks
1-15 250mg Test E
1-15 400mg Eq
3-15 HCG (500iu/2)
1-15 10mg ED Aromasin
18 Triptorelin 100mcg
18-22 Igf-1 des
18-21 Clomid 25 ED
18-21 Sustain Alpha
18-21 Natty supps, Creatine, test busters.

Cycle 2

1-12 250 Test E or C
1-12 400 Primo
3-12 HCG (500iu/2)
1-12 10mg EOD Aromasin
18 Triptorelin 100mcg
18-22 Igf-1 des
15-18 Clomid 25 ED
15-18 Sustain Alpha
15-18 Natty supps, Creatine, test busters.

Cycle 3 (I just thought of it yesterday because I got a bonus vial of Prop in the mail), otherwise I was leaning towards cycle 2.

1-3 100 Test Prop EOD
1-12 250 Test E
6-12 50mg Var ED (split in 2 doses)
3-12 HCG (500iu/2)
1-12 10mg EOD Aromasin
18 Triptorelin 100mcg
18-22 Igf-1 des
15-18 Clomid 25 ED
15-18 Sustain Alpha
15-18 Natty supps, Creatine, test busters.

I think I'll do the cycles in reverse

3) lean bulk (off for 12 weeks after PCT)
2) cut (off 16 weeks)
1) lean bulk

What cycle did you end up going with?

What cycle did you end up going with?

I'm doing the Test/Eq with a prop kicker. All Z Gear.

300mg prop for 4 weeks

300mg test E 1-15 (will extend to 16 or 17 if gains are still strong). I decided to keep it consistant with the prop as the hairline was doing OK at the time.

500mg Eq 1-15 (might extend along with test e)

Aromasin 8mg EOD (I'm not getting any gyno symptoms)

HCG 250IU Monday, Wednesday and Friday (boys are not totally full, think I should up it?)

I was hoping to put on a little mass while lossing a few % BF without loosing hair, it's all working out except the hair, it is thinning more. I'll either start taking proscar or lower the Test and extend the cycle...will decide this coming week.

So far so good, I'm up 7lbs and down an inch in my waist. Even if I keep 10lbs and lose 2 inches around the mid section, it will be a success. I could not do this outside the cycle...my natty test is under 200.

Next cycle come this fall will be Test/eq/var. 300/500/50.

Forgot, I just started GHRP-6 last week as both my shoulders are acting up...I'll keep it going thoughout the summer.

I'm doing the Test/Eq with a prop kicker. All Z Gear.

300mg prop for 4 weeks

300mg test E 1-15 (will extend to 16 or 17 if gains are still strong). I decided to keep it consistant with the prop as the hairline was doing OK at the time.

500mg Eq 1-15 (might extend along with test e)

Aromasin 8mg EOD (I'm not getting any gyno symptoms)

HCG 250IU Monday, Wednesday and Friday (boys are not totally full, think I should up it?)

I was hoping to put on a little mass while lossing a few % BF without loosing hair, it's all working out except the hair, it is thinning more. I'll either start taking proscar or lower the Test and extend the cycle...will decide this coming week.

So far so good, I'm up 7lbs and down an inch in my waist. Even if I keep 10lbs and lose 2 inches around the mid section, it will be a success. I could not do this outside the cycle...my natty test is under 200.

Next cycle come this fall will be Test/eq/var. 300/500/50.

Forgot, I just started GHRP-6 last week as both my shoulders are acting up...I'll keep it going thoughout the summer.

So this thread has bee completely fucking basterdized.

Please, before you post, read post 1 and post 2. I'll only be doing one of the cycles and I'm leaning toward 3.

I want to do low dose and nothing is going to change my mind. Yes I know more equals more.

Read the 300mg/600mg study posted all over this site for guys who don't think a low dose can get results. The guys lost fat and put on muscle without training, even at 300mg. I'm adding a second compound.

Don't be douches

Looking forward to reading some more positive comments...

dont mind me... i just wouldnt cycle w hopes of 10 pounds but everyone is different so i shouldnt criticize his goals

Your on track for a lb a week, you should go for 30 weeks and maybe you'll weigh 160 lbs

Bro I put on 20 pounds of lean muscle last cycle 500mg wk test dbol 50mged put on 30 kept 20 I'm pretty sure it worked u need to first focus on cutting your bf but I know I know low t

And I never said 400 a wk was cruising

The bottom line bro is that you are getting some good advice from some real vets here. I'm not by any means saying that you don't know what you're talking about but I will say that I think you should do a little more research and maybe read a few of the other threads in this forum. Everyone is different and has had different experiences but there is a lot of the same information being repeated in this thread and that is because it is accurate. Good Luck with the rest of your cycle Bro!!!

I'm 6 weeks into my cycle, up 6lbs and 1" off my waist. Pretty well the result I was looking for, but I'm suprised how fast the progress is coming considering the haters on this thread.

New lifting stats

Squat 315 X 7
Bench 200 X 7 (bench will always suck, fucked up shoulders) Inclined DB Press 80's X 7
Deads, 315 X 7
Overhead press 135 X 7 (again, shoulders don't like this much, but better than military)
Bent over BB Row 185 X 7

After this cycle, I'll be doing mainly Oly lifts. I'm not really interested in getting bigger, just leaner and stronger.

For those who are contemplating their first cycle, I don't think there is anything wrong with low dose, as long as it fits your goals...don't buy into the test is best argument (and only at 500mg), if it were, bold would not be one of the top detected AAS found in pro atheletes these day...(specifically in MMA)...

new guys should keep in mind that the last paragraph is this guys opinion. He is on his first cycle and knows as much about steroids as my little sister. Please consult someone that knows what they are talking about before starting anything. The answers are out there, go find the right ones.

i don't use weights, bands and p90x.

Totally serious bro, I think one 315 deadlift would pull my arms from my shoulders.

You mean those who have tried to help?

Let's close this thread so you're not exposed to a severe negging and / or loose your cool (AGAIN) then proceed to start dropping curse words at members whom are trying to help you.

If you would like me to re-open this please feel free to PM me at anytime. Thanks.