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CSH: Ladies.......I'm opening a can of WORMS

(CLICK HERE here to view the original thread with full colors/images)




Posted by: Dr. Pain

We are mainly gonna address the Ladies in this thread, (even thought some of the issues apply to the men)

And WE are ALL gonna contribute to the research

We all know how cheats and inconsistency can RUIN a cut, but there are several "little" issues to revisit. Some of the answers are in the archives here......some need better explanations.

WHY DO CUTS FAIL/STALL?

Let the posting begin

Major:

1) HRT
2) Birth Control (form of HRT)
3) Meds...Thyroid, SSRI's, etc
4) Estrogen Dominance
5) ???

Less MAJOR, but more than Minor:

A) Caffeine
B) SWEETNERS
C) GUM
D) Dairy
E) ???

Related....

I) ADRENAL BURNOUT
II) Wilson's Syndrome
III) Other Thyroid problems
IV) Reverse T3
V) ????

GO!

So we can ALL have a better understanding!


DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

A little help here....unless you all like being "stuck"...just don't be posting "I don't know why I'm stuck?"

Reverse T3 and Wilson's


http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...hlight=reverse

DP



Posted by: tigress

I read that thread 3 or 4 times yesterday. I feel like I am having a mini breakdown over this whole thing. It's like, wtf is the point of it all if nothing is happening? I thought my skinfolds showed improvements til i entered them into the spreadsheet and my percentage barely moved.



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Nat, relax...the point is that you have the rest of your life to fix things......nothing has been lost, it's all about learning your body

We had to go this route w/Danielle, and it proved successful....with 2 or 3 or you guys being "stuck", we are merely exploring thess issues...it doesn't mean they apply...DO NOT FREAK!

DP



Posted by: w8lifter

Gum AND Caffeine



Posted by: w8lifter

Fructose (sweetners)

Sugar



Posted by: Britney

Shit I had seen that thread before

I am shamefully chewing.....But I have weeks before my comp, so we can use it as a tweak later right? Please?


Is this why my tummy is a fuqqing barrel w/o carbs?



Posted by: w8lifter

No comment. *snaps gum*



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by Britney
Shit I had seen that thread before

I am shamefully chewing.....But I have weeks before my comp, so we can use it as a tweak later right? Please?


Is this why my tummy is a fuqqing barrel w/o carbs?
Would that be an :empty barrel?"

Brickass......Tweak This: Go look in the mirror, turn circles really fast so you can see your ASS........then spit out your gum, that tweak is NOW!


DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
No comment. *snaps gum*
You TOO!

DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Somebody go find BF and Estrogen Dominance...k?

DP



Posted by: Britney

I like my ass?



OKAY YOU WIN *spits gum at D......garbage*






Posted by: Dr. Pain

Start an Asslovers thread then. ......Thanks...coffee is next....lol

DP



Posted by: tigress

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Pain
Nat, relax...the point is that you have the rest of your life to fix things......nothing has been lost, it's all about learning your body

We had to go this route w/Danielle, and it proved successful....with 2 or 3 or you guys being "stuck", we are merely exploring thess issues...it doesn't mean they apply...DO NOT FREAK!

DP
I am not an emotional person by nature, and I AM freaking! I did know my body, and i know that I would have had a huge difference by now if it was a few years ago. WTF did I do to it? What should I do now? Do you think the cytomel will help?



Posted by: tigress

Sorry, I saw your post on my journal after I made the above post. Thanks for trying to calm me down.



Posted by: Britney

DP, just to clarify, coffee is NEXT not NOW right?

Tigress,
Listen to W8 and DP. Trust me its normal to freak. *been there done that* Right now you are not going to be able to look at yourself from a normal perspective or see all your changes. But BELIEVE me if you are being true to your plan the changes ARE there. It just seems while we are IN the situation, we can only see what is in our heads. Do not give up now! It will be worth it in the long run. Today I can look at past progress pics I thought I looked fat. Ect in and clearly see every chg week to week. Though at that time, I couldn’t. Your head can mess with you big time. That is why its important to have a supporter during this time-like W8 or DP can be – to help keep you in line!



Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by Britney
Today I can look at past progress pics I thought I looked fat. Ect in and clearly see every chg week to week. Though at that time, I couldn’t.
Me too....I look back at my pics just before my last contest...where I was gonna pull out due to the size of my ass and I'm thinking "What fucking ass????" Yet I was freaking about it. What an ASS I was



Posted by: tigress

Thanks Britney. Hopefully there are some internal changes going on. There doesn't seem to be any changes in measurements.



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by tigress
I am not an emotional person by nature, and I AM freaking! I did know my body, and i know that I would have had a huge difference by now if it was a few years ago. WTF did I do to it? What should I do now? Do you think the cytomel will help?
Nice Gritney...err Britney

Nat.......again, relax.......somewhere we have a thread that suggests "hormonal shifts" ...some starting as early as 10-15 years before menopause are the culprit...the body is very complex

We are just exploring here, KNOWLEDGE is POWER!

DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Pain
Somebody go find BF and Estrogen Dominance...k?

DP
Please



Posted by: w8lifter



Estrogen Dominance


More

more

I don't know if these are good or not...I don't know what I'm looking for? Sounds interesting though?



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Thanks Leah, notice the re-occurrig theme or "Increased BF?"...when we search, please make sure lipogenesis, or Body fat is used in the Key words.

Interesting supps re: this topic Soy, Birth Control-negative, DIIM, Progesterone, Pregnenolone, DHEA-possibly positve (if someone neds direction)...of course "Hormonal Balancing" is in order.

K....who is on "Adrenal Burnout Syndrome?"...

HRT?

DP



Posted by: tigress

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Pain
K....who is on "Adrenal Burnout Syndrome?"...

DP
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...rnout+Syndrome

http://www.ironmagazine.com/archive/Supplements_II.htm

I did a google search also, but most of the stuff I found were advertisments for supplements to "help" with adrenal burnout, so i didn't include the links here.



Posted by: Dr. Pain

HRT anyone?

Thanks BTW

DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

K....sit down when reading this!

I've been thinking "Oh NO!"

These "major stalls" started occurring when we threw Cardio into the mix....almost all here have "backrounds" of excessive cardio....there is the possibilty....the body remembers......and "shuts down" in response to such stimulation! :uglyisn'tit?:

THE COMMON DENOMINATOR HERE, NOT THYROID, NOT B/C, NOT HRT.....


....Just think about it? I for one, get fatter everytime I try cardio!

Try a week off.....drop your cals by 100-150 a day....and see what happens???

Just an Idea

DP



Posted by: w8lifter

I know I complained....but I'm gonna...cause I am so very tired of being soft



Posted by: Dr. Pain





DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

...and if someone had time.......a search for Cardio and it's effects on Estrogen (and other hormonal, esp serum cortisol) levels?

DP



Posted by: w8lifter

Searching...but found this...thought it was interesting:

Exercise effects dependent on time of day



Posted by: Dr. Pain

That was interesting

DP



Posted by: w8lifter

I kinda am not sure what I'm looking for exactly? lol



Posted by: Dr. Pain

On a recent handout I received:

Syptoms of low thyroid level include: fatigue, muscle aches, constipation, dry skin, w8 gain, slow heart rate, sensitivity to cold, or dry brittle hair that tends to fall out easily.

DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
I kinda am not sure what I'm looking for exactly? lol
We're looking for decreased GH or TEST, increased Cortisol and or EST w/cardio or excessive cardio!


DP



Posted by: w8lifter

Well...I found something that says exercises decreases blood levels of estrogen? lol



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Post it if you want to....I'm not as biassed as most....lol



Posted by: w8lifter

http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com...lth_news.shtml

I can't find anything you want ...I give up



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com...lth_news.shtml

I can't find anything you want ...I give up

Quote:
the effect of exercise on blood estrogens in postmenopausal women.
Of course..... Their's is declining anyways...lol

Thanks for trying!

DP



Posted by: w8lifter

Yeah...I know, lol ....oh well

I'll keep looking



Posted by: Dr. Pain

http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_do..._Dominance.htm

Quote:
Coffee (especially when accompanied with sugar) also creates an acidic internal environment. The body will try to neutralize the acid by withdrawing valuable minerals such as magnesium and calcium from the bone. This leads to mineral depletion if chronic and ultimately osteoporosis.

In summary, coffee consumption can lead to increased estrogen, adrenal gland exhaustion, and osteoporosis. Clearly, coffee is not the women's best friend by any means.
Quote:
Those who consumed at least 500 mg of caffeine daily, the equivalent of four or five cups of coffee had nearly 70% more estrogen than women who consumed less than 100 mg of caffeine daily. Coffee consumption increases estradiol levels. There are three different forms of estrogen in the body - estrone, estradiol, and estriol. Estradiol is the form that is pro-cancerous.
Quote:
12. Increase in coffee consumption. Caffeine intake from all sources was linked with higher estrogen levels regardless of age, body mass index (BMI), caloric intake, smoking, alcohol, and cholesterol intake. Studies had shown that women who consumed at least 500 milligrams of caffeine daily, the equivalent of four or five cups of coffee, had nearly 70% more estrogen during the early follicular phase than women who consume no more than 100 mg of caffeine daily, or less than one cup of coffee. Tea is not much better as it contains about half the amount of caffeine as compared to coffee. The exception is herbal tea like chamomile that contain no caffeine.
I know......I suck...LOL :P

DP



Posted by: w8lifter

....Okay....that would make me stop drinking coffee!



Posted by: Dr. Pain

..and not the fact that it makes you soft?...LOL


DP



Posted by: w8lifter

That just says caffiene....not coffee



Posted by: Dr. Pain

What's your point?.....I'll give up coffee if you will...starting tomorrow..and we'll challange all the others too

DP



Posted by: w8lifter

Oh god no...I already tried it...I went back! lol

Although I did realize I CAN do it if I want/need to....now I'm just doing it cause I want to



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
Oh god no...I already tried it...I went back! lol

Although I did realize I CAN do it if I want/need to....now I'm just doing it cause I want to


That....... sounds like ESTROGEN DOMINANCE!

DP



Posted by: w8lifter

It is not



Posted by: Jodi

Damn, that sites got too much info. Getting brain fried!

I hate giving up coffee. Does this include decaf, I know there is a slight bit of caffeine in decaf but how much really??



Posted by: Dr. Pain

I'm just pointing something out...Jodi..I wouldn't worry about it.....we are only gonna quit if w8's quits!


DP



Posted by: w8lifter

Cha!....blame me...you can't do that, lol



Posted by: Jodi

Well you 2 can quit. I'll watch. I have to draw the line somewhere. Not my Decaf too j/k

I always like a challenge.

Good info on that site regarding medical issues I've been dealing with.



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
Cha!....blame me...you can't do that, lol
Hell Yes I can!

DP

Jodi....



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Need a little Help:

. Randolph TG. Masked food allergy as a factor in the development and persistence of obesity. J Lab Clin Med 1947;32:1547.

DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Not what I was looking for...but interesting:

http://www.chronicfatiguesupport.com...t/lipogenesis/



Posted by: Dr. Pain

And an Excellent outline:



http://www.biol.andrews.edu/anat/anp...etabolism.html


DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Nat, especially for you!

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...threadid=15644


DP



Posted by: w8lifter

Weren't we a busy beaver



Posted by: Dr. Pain

*Not a Beaver*

DP



Posted by: tigress

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Pain
Nat, especially for you!

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...threadid=15644


DP
Thanks DP.



Posted by: w8lifter

This would be an interesting article:


Evaluation of health aspects of sugars contained in carbohydrate sweeteners. Report of Sugars Task Force, 1986.

Glinsmann WH, Irausquin H, Park YK.

A critical review composed of two parts: estimates of present levels of sugars intake and of recent trends in nutritive carbohydrate sweetener content of the food supply and a review of recent scientific literature addressing potentially adverse health effects associated with sugars consumption. The review contains an executive summary, an appendix with 75 tables summarizing the estimation of sugars intake of U.S. population groups, and over one thousand citations.

Publication Types:
Review

PMID: 3543257 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Posted by: w8lifter

Not what you're looking for but interesting still....


HEALTH NEWS and VIEWS

by
Theron G. Randolph, MD




Posted by: w8lifter

Food Allergies and Obesity:

If an allergic food is eaten several times daily, a masked or chronic allergic reaction may develop. This reaction is characterized by an improvement in chronic symptoms occurring immediately after food is eaten, followed by a progressive increase in symptoms after about 2 hours. Patients with masked allergies learn to avoid these reactions by eating at frequent intervals the foods to which they are allergic. Withdrawal symptoms may include a gnawing hunger sensation, nasal stuffiness, inability to concentrate, fatigue, sleepiness and nervousness. The foods these patients eat most frequently between meals are those which there is the highest incidence of sensitivity; namely, corn, wheat, and milk. As these foods are all high in calories, patients with food allergies may have great difficulty losing weight. However, avoidance of masked allergens is often followed by diuresis (excess urination), disappearance of swelling, decreased appetite, and sudden weight loss.

Randolph TG. Masked food allergy as a factor in the development and persistence of obesity. J Lab Clin Med 1947; 32:1547

http://www.lemmo.com/treatments/weight_loss.htm



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Now who has been a busy little .....um....w8lifter:

Quote:
This rapidly developing chemicalization of man’s intake of foods, beverages, drugs, and water supplies as well as such topical and/or inhaled materials as cosmetics, clothing, household furnishings, cleaning agents, janitorial supplies, etc., occurring since the turn of the century . . . [caught us off guard, and] . . . in view of the speed with which chemicalization of the environment is occurring, chronic illnesses presented by today’s chemically susceptible persons are to be regarded as mere curtain-raisers for tomorrow’s far more generalized and endemic environmentally related health problems.
I quote this, because the two Doctors at last nights dinner and I started discussing the "new" thyroid standards for hypothyroidism.....they use a diiferent set of guidlelines from a famous Doctor....5. to 4.0 TSH, but say that they always treat the symptoms regardless of the blood test. The quote is important because the conversation went to "why" so many people are "fucked up" for lack of a better way to say......hormonally inbalanced!

We agreed that the "environment" had changed in the last few decades......environmental stimulus, toxins, processed foods, estrogens......stress....basically wracking the human system, and causing the need for more HRT (of all kinds). The conversation drifted around....but ended up at "Environmental and food caused estrogens" (soys, plastics, etc) being a large part of the dynamic shift in body comp that is prevalent today!


DP



Posted by: w8lifter





Posted by: Dr. Pain

...and the last link was quite good...except for the SF comment....(he doesn't totally believe in what he is saying?)

and some other minor mis-information....but I like this:


Quote:
Hormones and Metabolism:

Thyroid
Growth hormone
Testosterone
DHEA
*A deficiency of any of these hormones will make weight loss more difficult. It is important to be appropriately assessed through standard blood tests & physical examination.

Sleep:

Hormones such as growth hormone, testosterone, erythropoietin are released mainly during deep sleep (stage 3,4)
This hormones stimulate the body to heal and grow, and even lose weight!

Medications Which Cause Weight Gain:

psychotropic drugs: phenothiazines, antidepressants, tranquilizers
hormones: estrogen (birth control pill, premarin), prednisone
anti-arthritic medications (NSAIDs)
DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Diet = a way of life or regimen

Obesity types: divided into hyperplastic & hypertrophic

Hyperplastic: there is an increased number of fat cells throughout the body.

Believed to be related to the amount of calories eaten by pregnant mother; thus determined in utero.
No association to diseases

Hypertrophic

increase in the size of each fat cell
can increase 1000X its original size!!
two general fat distribution shapes: android (apple-shaped) & gynecoid (pear-shaped) based on a waist/hip ratio
the apple-shape obesity associated with diabetes, heart disease, etc., and not the pear-shaped obesity


Quote:
The Aspartame controversy:

In a one-year follow-up of 78,000 women (aged 50-69) aspartame users were more likely to gain weight than in non-users. These results could not be explained by differences in food consumption patterns.

Stellman SD et al. Artificial sweetener use and one-year weight change among women. Prev Med 1986;15:195-202

I bet that holds true for some other sweetners, hope the research comes soon!


DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/chemfoodhert.html

Quote:
Coffee is a known phytoestrogen. Coffee is commonly known to make fibrocystic breast disease worse. It is not thought to be the caffeine, but coffee itself mimics estrogen strongly. Thus, decaffinated coffee still may be estrogenic.
I'll gp further if I need to


DP

w8...see "Pomegranates"



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Interesting but long:

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

See Xenoestrogens

DP



Posted by: buff_tat2d_chic

Information OVERLOAD!!

I don't know what it all means. I have been for months now...I don't which way I should go



Posted by: w8lifter

I told you not to go there!



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Watch this (New Thread)...and I haven't started on decaff!



Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Pain
http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/chemfoodhert.html



I'll gp further if I need to


DP

w8...see "Pomegranates"

Okay?...why? I don't eat 'em?



Posted by: w8lifter

I'd be more concerned w/ my beer intake than pomegranates



Posted by: Dr. Pain

You asked me about them once...I didn't know this then !


DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
I'd be more concerned w/ my beer intake than pomegranates
Recently?

DP



Posted by: buff_tat2d_chic

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
I told you not to go there!
Me???


I am sorry



Posted by: w8lifter

Oh please..according to this EVERYTHING is estrogenic!



Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by buff_tat2d_chick
Me???


I am sorry

LOL! No....DP...sorry BTC....not you



Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Pain
Recently?

DP

No of course not, lol



Posted by: buff_tat2d_chic

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
LOL! No....DP...sorry BTC....not you
Whew! Ok, thank goodness!



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Glad she didn't say "You Suck!"...meaning me of course!


DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:
Originally posted by w8lifter
Oh please..according to this EVERYTHING is estrogenic!
Yep.....Everything YOU do....lol....inc...girly

I hope the Cutter's can find the info in this Thread

DP



Posted by: Stacey

DAMN LOTS OF INFO HERE!!!! I Will take the time to read it all tonight..



Posted by: w8lifter

Why alcohol calories aren't as important as most people think...


According to conventional wisdom, the infamous "beer belly" is caused by excess alcohol calories being stored as fat.

However, researchers from the University of California have shown that less than 5% of the alcohol calories you drink are turned into fat. Rather, the main effect of alcohol is to reduce the amount of fat your body burns for energy.

Alcohol calories
Successful weight loss is all about oxidizing (or burning), more calories than you eat. When they go on a diet, many people choose low-calorie alcoholic drinks, mainly because they contain fewer alcohol calories than their regular counterparts.

However, this recent study, published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, shows that even a very small amount of alcohol has a large impact on fat metabolism.

Eight men were given two drinks of vodka and lemonade separated by 30 minutes. Each drink contained just under 90 calories. Fat metabolism was measured before and after consumption of the drink. For several hours after drinking the vodka, whole body lipid oxidation (a measure of how much fat your body is burning) dropped by a massive 73%.


Rather than getting stored as fat, the main fate of alcohol is conversion into a substance called acetate. In fact, blood levels of acetate after drinking the vodka were 2.5 times higher than normal. And it appears this sharp rise in acetate puts the brakes on fat loss.

A car engine typically uses only one source of fuel. Your body, on the other hand, draws from a number of different energy sources, such as carbohydrate, fat, and protein. To a certain extent, the source of fuel your body uses is dictated by its availability.

In other words, your body tends to use whatever you feed it. Consequently, when acetate levels rise, your body simply burns more acetate, and less fat. In essence, acetate pushes fat to the back of the queue.

So, to summarize and review, here's what happens to fat metabolism after the odd drink or two.

• A small portion of the alcohol is converted into fat.

• Your liver then converts most of the alcohol into acetate.

• The acetate is then released into your bloodstream, and replaces fat as a source of fuel.

Your bodies' response to alcohol is very similar to the way it deals with excess carbohydrate. Although carbohydrate can be converted directly into fat, one of the main effects of overfeeding with carbohydrate is that it simply replaces fat as a source of energy. That's why any type of diet, whether it's high-fat, high-protein, or high-carbohydrate, can lead to a gain in weight.

The bottom line is that even a small amount of alcohol (this study used two servings of vodka and lemonade) can have a big impact on the rate at which your body burns fat — even if the drink is low in calories.




Reference
Siler, S.Q., Neese, R.A., & Hellerstein, M.K. (1999). De novo lipogenesis, lipid kinetics, and whole-body lipid balances in humans after acute alcohol consumption. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 70, 928-936

http://thefactsaboutfitness.com/research/alcohol.htm



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Most excellent!

Tidbit, not a Timbit.....

Anybody seen this research?

Quote:
2. Effects of Sweeteners on Digestion & Appetite

Research by the American Cancer Society indicates that regular users of artificial sweeteners tend to gain weight not lose it. It is believed this is because artificial sweeteners may slow down digestion and increase appetite.

Jodi...are you on it?

DP



Posted by: w8lifter

I will look for it tomorrow



Posted by: Dr. Pain

We've seen this one...

Quote:
He also said there was a possibility that chewing gum induced a surge of insulin due to the mouth watering in anticipation of a meal. "It is known that there are insulin receptors in areas of the brain which are important for learning and memory," he said.

Source: University of Northumbria and the Cognitive Research Unit; Reuters
Interesting:

http://www.diabetolognytt.nu/aterkom...putation2.html



Quote:
Smoking habits correlated positively with degree of insulin resistance as well as various aspects of IRS. Smoking cessation also improved insulin resistance and IRS in spite of a concomitant increase in body weight. Long-term users of nicotine-containing chewing gum also exhibited insulin resistance and IRS. Again, the degree of insulin resistance was related to the nicotine consumption habits.




Posted by: w8lifter

Effects of sweetness and energy in drinks on food intake following exercise.

King NA, Appleton K, Rogers PJ, Blundell JE.

Department of Psychology, University of Leeds, UK. neilk@psychology.leeds.ac.uk

Exercise is known to cause physiological changes that could affect the impact of nutrients on appetite control. This study was designed to assess the effect of drinks containing either sucrose or high-intensity sweeteners on food intake following exercise. Using a repeated-measures design, three drink conditions were employed: plain water (W), a low-energy drink sweetened with artificial sweeteners aspartame and acesulfame-K (L), and a high-energy, sucrose-sweetened drink (H). Following a period of challenging exercise (70% VO2 max for 50 min), subjects consumed freely from a particular drink before being offered a test meal at which energy and nutrient intakes were measured. The degree of pleasantness (palatability) of the drinks was also measured before and after exercise. At the test meal, energy intake following the artificially sweetened (L) drink was significantly greater than after water and the sucrose (H) drinks (p < 0.05). Compared with the artificially sweetened (L) drink, the high-energy (H) drink suppressed intake by approximately the energy contained in the drink itself. However, there was no difference between the water (W) and the sucrose (H) drink on test meal energy intake. When the net effects were compared (i.e., drink + test meal energy intake), total energy intake was significantly lower after the water (W) drink compared with the two sweet (L and H) drinks. The exercise period brought about changes in the perceived pleasantness of the water, but had no effect on either of the sweet drinks. The remarkably precise energy compensation demonstrated after the higher energy sucrose drink suggests that exercise may prime the system to respond sensitively to nutritional manipulations. The results may also have implications for the effect on short-term appetite control of different types of drinks used to quench thirst during and after exercise.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial

PMID: 10336168 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Posted by: w8lifter

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr. Pain
Most excellent!

Tidbit, not a Timbit.....

Anybody seen this research?

Quote:
2. Effects of Sweeteners on Digestion & Appetite

Research by the American Cancer Society indicates that regular users of artificial sweeteners tend to gain weight not lose it. It is believed this is because artificial sweeteners may slow down digestion and increase appetite. {/QUOTE]


Jodi...are you on it?

DP

This is as close as I've come to anything saying AS increases appetite...and it's not that good, lol. Most studies are saying just the opposite


Neurosci Biobehav Rev 1994 Summer;18(2):197-205 Links


Erratum in:
Neurosci Biobehav Rev 1994 Winter;18(4):613

Low-energy substitutes for sugars and fats in the human diet: impact on nutritional regulation.

Bellisle F, Perez C.

Unite INSERM 341, Hotel Dieu, Diabetologie, Paris, France.

Low-calorie substitutes for dietary sugars and fats are offered to the public as aids in the control of body weight. Their actual influence on food intake and energy regulation has been studied in many acute and longer-term studies. Artificial sweeteners are often presented as preloads, and their effects on subsequent intake are compared to those of sugars or nonsweet vehicles. Preloads are often liquid (drinks) or semisolid (yogurts) and presented as snacks, rather than parts of a meal. Under these conditions, partial or complete compensation for the missing energy is observed most often over the course of a few hours. However, increases in appetite have also been reported. Low-energy fat substitutes also apparently allow energy, but not nutrient (fat) compensation. Short-term, medium-term, and long-term behavioural responses to the use of low-energy substitutes can be different, mainly as a result of learning. Consequently, effects of their chronic use on body weight, body composition, nutritional balance, and various physical parameters are only partially predictable on the basis of present knowledge. The present article reviews recent contributions to this field and delineate open areas of research.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 8058213 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Posted by: w8lifter

Example:


Am J Clin Nutr 1991 Apr;53(4):872-8 Links


Comment in:
Am J Clin Nutr. 1993 Jul;58(1):120-2.

Effects of intense sweeteners on hunger, food intake, and body weight: a review.

Rolls BJ.

Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21205.

The sweet taste of aspartame, saccharin, and acesulfame-K has been reported to increase ratings of hunger and, after saccharin consumption, to increase food intake. However, most investigators have found that aspartame consumption is associated with decreased or unchanged ratings of hunger. Even if aspartame consumption increases ratings of hunger in some situations, it apparently has little impact on the controls of food intake and body weight. Aspartame has not been found to increase food intake; indeed, both short-term and long-term studies have shown that consumption of aspartame-sweetened foods or drinks is associated with either no change or a reduction in food intake. Preliminary clinical trials suggest that aspartame may be useful aid in a complete diet-and-exercise program or in weight maintenance. Intense sweeteners have never been found to cause weight gain in humans.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 2008866 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Posted by: w8lifter

Physiol Behav 1993 Mar;53(3):459-66 Links


Consuming aspartame with and without taste: differential effects on appetite and food intake of young adult males.

Black RM, Leiter LA, Anderson GH.

Department of Nutritional Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto, Canada.

Despite some reports that aspartame (APM)-sweetened beverages may increase subjective appetite, previously we demonstrated that drinking 280 ml of an APM-sweetened soft drink (170 mg APM) had no effect on appetite, and 560 ml of the same soft drink (340 mg APM) reduced appetite. The present study examined this appetite reduction to determine its cause. Eighteen normal weight young adult males received five treatments (beverage preloads) at 1100 h in a randomized order, one per week: 280 ml of carbonated mineral water (CMW) (control), 560 ml of CMW, 280 ml of CMW with 340 mg of encapsulated APM, 280 ml of CMW sweetened with 340 mg APM, 560 ml of an APM-sweetened soft drink (340 mg APM). Subjective hunger and food appeal were measured from 0930 a.m. to 1230 h, and food intake from a buffet lunch offered at 1205 h was measured. Treatment had no effect on food intake or macronutrient selection. Both 560 ml of CMW or soft drink suppressed appetite, although 280 ml of APM-sweetened mineral water significantly increased subjective appetite relative to the control. Encapsulated APM had no effect on appetite. Therefore, appetite reduction following consumption of an APM-sweetened drink is likely due to drink volume and not the APM content. In addition, consuming APM-sweetened CMW produces a short-term increase in subjective appetite.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 8451310 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Posted by: w8lifter



Physiol Behav 1990 Mar;47(3):555-9 Links


Oral stimulation with aspartame increases hunger.

Tordoff MG, Alleva AM.

Monell Chemical Senses Center, Philadelphia, PA 19104.

We evaluated whether "sweetness" increases hunger. Groups of 10 male and 10 female subjects chewed a gum base containing one of four concentrations of aspartame (0.05%, 0.3%, 0.5%, or 1.0%) for 15 min. Relative to groups given nothing or unsweetened gum base to chew, groups given the sweetened gum bases increased hunger ratings, but not in a manner monotonically related to aspartame concentration. The most effective aspartame concentration to increase hunger was 0.3% for females and 0.5% for males. The highest aspartame concentrations had a time-dependent, biphasic effect on appetite, producing a transient decrease followed by a sustained increase in hunger ratings. Thus, the concentration of the sweetener, the sex of the subject and the time after chewing, were all important determinants of whether "sweetness" increased hunger.

PMID: 2359769 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Wow Leah..very impressive. A tiny bit of conflicting info...makes me wonder who paid for it!

I think we have been avoiding the "Sweetners" in protein powder for too long......I only have an example of one......but I watched WL go from 3-4 shakes out of 7-8 meals. he eats every 2 hours like a machine) ...to more whole food..and maybe 1 shake...PWO...and sometimes one more if rushed....and I think he's gotten some impressive results!

FOOD RULES!

What I got from those studies....is that 1) More than just aspertame..may be the culprit...I wish they had addressed insulin levels (lowering serum glucose, possibly thru lipogenesis), which in turn created more hunger

2) Some of these sports drinks I sell....very artificially sweet...that some drink before or during their W/O....may not be the "All That" and be hurting their progress Face it, Everyone want to be leaner...and most bigger and leaner....lol



DP



Posted by: w8lifter

Ok...so...just to sum all that shiat up .....after reading sick amts of studies this morning (more than just posted here) it seems that aspartame and acesulfame-K increases perceived hunger but doesn't necessarily lead to increased energy intake (perhaps because of reduced-calorie food choices? i.e. more aspartame-sweetened foods as opposed to sugar-sweetened foods. However, saccarine (sp?) definitely leads to increased subsequent energy intakes.





Posted by: Dr. Pain

There are Aspartame links obesity studies btw...Yeah I read a lot yesterday....again they are avoiding insulin as a topic!

The gum studies too.....it increases calories expenditure, it improves memory (via circulation to the brain)..etc...and then the brush offf the insulin producing effect as a "good thing" on brain cells, but neglect the possibility of storing serum glucose as FAT!

They are missing the point....I know it, you know, it will be proven one day soon....else it has and been swept under the table by the processed food and candy biz...and we just have to find it!

DP



Posted by: Dr. Pain

BTW...I didn't post it, but music at 60 bpm (like a relaxed heartrate) improves studying and memory ablity!

DP



Posted by: Erilaya

Holy Crap I just missed a meeting with a new client cos I got absorbed reading all this! Damn! oops.. umm I beter call and reschedule..

great reading..

thanks guys for sharing your vast knowledge and unending patience.

Eri'



Posted by: Dr. Pain

Big Freaking Bump!

DP



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CSH: Ladies.......I'm opening a can of WORMS


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