Best abdominal exercise [Forum Archive]

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Best abdominal exercise

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Posted by: Ralphie

So what do you think is the best ad exercise(s)

I am looking to put together a good ab workout..

Inclined crunches?
Weighted everything?

jackknives? what is your opinion?

Posted by: mda1125

Recently read an article that said weighted crunches (lay on the floor, get the rope as close to your head as possible, and put the weight high enough so you can only do 6-8) is the best bet.

They were going on the principal that doing hundreds of crunches might make for better endurance but really doesn't overload the muscles, which makes them bigger.

You don't bench 135 x 25 times and then just keep increasing.. Most people in the forum will tell you to train heavy. So why any different with abs?

Granted, each individual will respond differently. That goes back to the calf debate if you should go heavy for 6-8 or 15-20. Some people get stronger at the 6-8 range but notice no size increases.

So this is just a general statement above.

And of course, diet affects how visible the abs are since males seem to carry most of their weight around the mid-section.

So my vote is for weighted crunches, then incline crunches (holding a weight to the chest). Of course incline weighted crunches, you might be able to hold more weight then is safe.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally posted by mda1125
Recently read an article that said weighted crunches (lay on the floor, get the rope as close to your head as possible, and put the weight high enough so you can only do 6-8) is the best bet.

Historically, I have never really done ab isolation exercises, but I have been doing them over the last couple of months. I am trying to grow my abs muscles, and I find that weighted cruches on a Swiss ball work well. I do four sets, 8-10 reps each.

Posted by: FortifiedIron

Declined Barbell Crunches

Kc

Posted by: Ralphie

declined barbell crunches?
What?

Posted by: FortifiedIron

Hold a LOADed barbell across your chest, with use of partner if you have one. You can use a chambered bar if you have one, they work the best. Make sure its a FULL crunch not a punny!

Kc

Posted by: Ralphie

OH, you mean incline?
Decline is what threw me off.. I've only seen it referred to as inclined.

Posted by: seyone

I love weighted roman chairs.

Posted by: FortifiedIron

Quote:

Originally posted by Ralphie
OH, you mean incline?
Decline is what threw me off.. I've only seen it referred to as inclined.

I still mean decline. Do a 4x15 decline barbell situps and follow it up with 4x6 saxon bends or bent presses your abs and obliquies will be screaming in the morning.

Kc

Posted by: Robert D.

You guys ever tried an ab roller? Those are killer, I hate them!

Posted by: T2G

Three of my favorites:

Crunch
Reverse Crunch
Oblique Crunch (lying on your side)

Posted by: marshal959

ball crunch 3x15-25
ground crunch w/plate 3x15-25
leg lifts or decline crunch 3x15-25

always go past the really painful part
really heavy weight and low rep may make you midsection thicker

dietdietdietdietdietdiet!!!!!

Posted by: Dr. Pain

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...&highlight=abs

Posted by: Dr. Pain

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...s&pagenumber=1

I do like serious resistance in lower rep ranges like I did today...

Posted by: Charger

Cable Kneeling Crunch
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...ingCrunch.html

Swiss ball crunch's
Roman Chair weighted crunch

Posted by: tjwes

If you want a small waistline you should never do weighted ab movements.The abs grow just like any other muscle,and in time your waist size will increase taking away from your taper.Remember B.B. is a sport of illusions and you can create the illusion of being bigger if you have a nice V-shape.Especially important if you compete.Sit-ups are a waste of time ,the function of the abs is to bring your sternum closer to your pelvic bone.Do crunches slowly and reverse crunches and add a STRETHING EXERCISE SUCH AS ROMAN CHAIRS,do them in tri-set fashion and keep moving ,make it intense.

Posted by: katie64

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
You guys ever tried an ab roller? Those are killer, I hate them!

Do Ab Roller's really work???????? I asked W8 if I could incorporate and Ab Routine into by workouts, I need it..........

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
You guys ever tried an ab roller? Those are killer, I hate them!

The roller where you lie and your back and rock? You are not referring to the ab wheel, are you? That ab wheel kills my lower back.

The Swiss ball is the shit.

Posted by: katie64

Quote:

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
The roller where you lie and your back and rock? You are not referring to the ab wheel, are you? That ab wheel kills my lower back.

I can't do the roller your talking about baboon, it's awkward, and the other is a back killer, I tried it at a friend's once, fine going down, it's getting back up, LOL

The Swiss ball is the shit.

Are you saying that the SB is the best way to work the abs????

Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:

Originally posted by katie64
Do Ab Roller's really work???????? I asked W8 if I could incorporate and Ab Routine into by workouts, I need it..........

I find the rollers less effective unless doing what I call "Jackie Chans"

Like this, but to full extension...this is as far as you would want to go however for practical purpose:

Posted by: Dr. Pain

and finish

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally posted by katie64
Are you saying that the SB is the best way to work the abs????

I certainly can not say it's the best, but it works well for me. Everyone's got their favorites and there are lots of effective ab exercises. I simply prefer crunches on a Swiss ball (I hold a 35 lb plate on my chest, but I need to up that weight because three 15-20 rep sets are getting too easy).

Posted by: katie64

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Pain
"Jackie Chans"

Yikes, there is no way I could do those now..........

Posted by: katie64

Quote:

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
I certainly can not say it's the best, but it works well for me. Everyone's got their favorites and there are lots of effective ab exercises. I simply prefer crunches on a Swiss ball (I hold a 35 lb plate on my chest, but I need to up that weight because three 15-20 rep sets are getting too easy).

So one way to work the abs, I want to get rid of fat and strengthen my muscle, low w8, high reps or what....have you heard of "Ab Boot Camp"????????

Posted by: I Are Baboon

I have not heard of ab boot camp. My gym offers ab-blaster classes, but I am too scared to try one.

I am trying to build up my abdominals, thus the high weight, low reps. If you keep the weight low with higher reps, you may flatten your tummy, but you won't build your ab muscles.

Posted by: katie64

Quote:

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
I have not heard of ab boot camp.

AB BOOT CAMP

I am trying to build up my abdominals, thus the high weight, low reps. If you keep the weight low with higher reps, you may flatten your tummy, but you won't build your ab muscles.

I want to flatten as well as strengthen my muscles, every area is strong ( to a degree) except my stomach muscles, probably because I never did anything to strengthen them after pregnancies.

So what do you think???????????

Posted by: Ralphie

Can anyone tell me the best way to find out what my bf% is?
I know scales aren't accurate at all.. what other methods are there? Besides something like sitting in a water tank....?

I prolly have too much bf% to see my abs if I keep working at them at this point.. I just want to know where I stand though.. I am a pretty skinny guy.

Posted by: katie64

Fat Calipers

Posted by: J'Bo

Ummm i would suggest getting calipers done. NO WATER DUNK.

The dunk is the most accurate but few people actually get it done...so you wont be able to tell what you aer compared to others, cause they wont be as accurate as you are....plus it is very discouraging...it calculates intermuscular fat as well...calipers dont.

So do the calipers.

Posted by: Ralphie

Where can I get some?
And about how accurate are they?

Posted by: Robert D.

Fat Calipers are as good/accurate as the person using them.

They're great for tracking progress, but the accuracy can be off by a couple of %

I have a pair of Digital Accumeasure calipers.

Posted by: katie64

Has anyone checked out this site, AB BOOT CAMP

if so, can you tell me what you think???????

Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:

Originally posted by katie64
Has anyone checked out this site, AB BOOT CAMP

if so, can you tell me what you think???????

Good genetics in the demonstrator, but bad some exercises, bad form in many, too much psoas, and on the good exercises, there are better and more "correct/effective" ways to do them!

JMHO

Posted by: katie64

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Pain
Good genetics in the demonstrator, but bad some exercises, bad form in many, too much psoas, and on the good exercises, there are better and more "correct/effective" ways to do them!

JMHO

Dp............I checked out your "Abs By Vince", is that more for male body builders, any recommendations for me?????????

I want to lose fat and build muscle, something I can do more than once a week, or what ever is recommended, this is my problem area, thanks.......

Posted by: katie64

bumping this cuz I want DP to help w/an ab workout

Posted by: katie64

Again...........

Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:

Originally posted by katie64
Dp............I checked out your "Abs By Vince", is that more for male body builders, any recommendations for me?????????

I want to lose fat and build muscle, something I can do more than once a week, or what ever is recommended, this is my problem area, thanks.......

K, abs are made in the Kitchen (w8 and others)

Those exercises are fine for you....2-3 times a week is good

What we usually do is section the abs into 3 parts, upper rectus, lower rectus, obliques......

and we do or emphasize one area harder, and then hit the others, reverse or rotate that next W/O...so you really end up with an A, B and C W/O.

Upper means your body comes towards your legs, lower, the legs (not knees) come towards the torso, and sides usually involve a twisting motion,,,

I will build you a program later..have to go now sorry!

DP

Posted by: katie64

Thanks so much DP, I appreciate it..............

Posted by: J'Bo

Hey DP.
I tried the barbell roll yesterday and ohhhh myyyy godddd.
Good exercise. You just gotta be careful to not use your back too much.
Thanks babe. Keepem comin.

Posted by: Dr. Pain

My W/O yesterday

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Pain

1) Incline revers crunches
2) w8ed quarter roll-ups
3) one arm standing cable oblique crunches
4) BB roll outs
5) Dipstand leg raises w/twist
6) Ball Pike Planks
7) w8ed crunches, 2 plates on head

The only exercise I did 4 sets of was the one arm oblique chrunch (I love those), the rest where 3's.....and I tried a set of Saxon Side bends, only used 10's....I have a link if you need it ,FI (FortifiedIron) was right, those and using an Olympic cambered BB on declines rock....Dr. J my partner, thinks he is gonna get 25's on those (the declines), to me, so far it being new, the bar is freaking hard!

J'Bo...here are the links I promised:

http://www.stumptuous.com/abtraining.html

http://www.dolfzine.com/page171.htm

Posted by: J'Bo

Thanks DP.
I geuss now i gotta actually do them.
LOL.

Posted by: Robert D.

Everyone here does realize that the "abs" are one muscle and you cannot work the "lower", "middle" and "upper" sections, right?

Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
Everyone here does realize that the "abs" are one muscle and you cannot work the "lower", "middle" and "upper" sections, right?

Like chest mister Prince...I can accentuate the part I wish to!

DO a standing side crunch (short ROM, expale air, handle fixed to the ear, elbow towards illiac crest), place your fingers into your obliques, and leave yout thumb across the rectus...then tell me were you "feel it?"

Posted by: katie64

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
Everyone here does realize that the "abs" are one muscle and you cannot work the "lower", "middle" and "upper" sections, right?

I just wanted an ab workout and no I didn't realize that.........

Posted by: Robert D.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Pain
Like chest mister Prince...I can accentuate the part I wish to!

DP

you can, but it will not work....

the abdominals (rectus abdominis) is not going to get bigger or more developed in any one section, it's comprised of only ONE muscle, (albeit with tenuous intersections called the linea alba and the linea transversea) running from sternum to pelvis, and can be worked completely with a crunch.

btw, leg raises do not even work your rectus abdominis, what is actually being stressed is the psoas.

Posted by: Dr. Pain

Prince......altough you can activate the rectus with an ordinary crunch, your "All or None Firing" principles do not make this the best or only way to train......and you can target or seperate abdominal regions such as the Transversus Abdominis, Obliques, Intercostals, and to a certain extent intercostal serratus tie-ins.

Plus, Body Building Science, not Anatomy, the Science of Perspiration and Hard Work....not only dictates hitting a muscle or muscles form several angles....but also dictates variety as well, according to Poliquin, and I trust him as a source, as much as 30% less muscle fiber can/will be recruited by the time a body has done an exercise in 3 consective W/O's.

Ask any accomplished BB if a "Crunch" covers the abdominal W/O requirement, and they will they you NO!

Also, we do emply lower abdominal exercises and take measures to deactive psaos invovlement, contraction can be targeted with a working knowledge of you body!..Contraction, is everything when it comes to abs!

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Obliques.html

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/RectusAbdominis.html

http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Sp...l#anchor165002

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/Wai...l#anchor172895

Posted by: Robert D.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Pain
Prince......altough you can activate the rectus with an ordinary crunch, your "All or None Firing" principles do not make this the best or only way to train......and you can target or seperate abdominal regions such as the Transversus Abdominis, Obliques, Intercostals, and to a certain extent intercostal serratus tie-ins.

Okay, but those are different muscles, I was specifically speaking of the "abs". Also, there are variations that can be used, crunches on an incline, crunches with weight, etc.

Quote:

Plus, Body Building Science, not Anatomy, the Science of Perspiration and Hard Work....not only dictates hitting a muscle or muscles form several angles....

Yes, to a degree. But how much are we really trying to build when it comes to abs? Is the goal to get a "big abs", I know I would not want that.

Quote:

but also dictates variety as well, according to Poliquin, and I trust him as a source, as much as 30% less muscle fiber can/will be recruited by the time a body has done an exercise in 3 consective W/O's.

But again, how much are we really wanting to build when it comes to abs? But either way, there are many variations that can be used, my main point was that you cannot build or work the "lower abs, "middle abs", or "upper abs" separately. As far aas the 3 work-outs thing, many others would disgree.

Quote:

Ask any accomplished BB if a "Crunch" covers the abdominal W/O requirement, and they will they you NO!

Who would this be? I can ask Jay Cutler if inclines will make my upper chest bigger and he will probably say yes, but knowing what I now know, I will know that he's mistaken.

Quote:

Also, we do emply lower abdominal exercises and take measures to deactive psaos invovlement, contraction can be targeted with a working knowledge of you body!..Contraction, is everything when it comes to abs!

Exactly, so why use leg raises to work the abs? If you're going to concentrate on contracting the abs, why do a leg raise in the first place?

DP, I am not really trying to argue or debate this, I just think that it's another gym myth people thinking that they're going to actually target their lower abs. It's even worse when people think that is how their going to make their lower abs more defined.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Posted by: Rissole

I like doing wieghted crunches of a fit ball, use the lower pulley on a cable X machine and rope over the shoulders

I also like hovers on the fitball

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