-->
Pages: 1

Your advice, please!


(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)




Posted by: Monolith

Yea or Nay?

Sets in red are actual working sets.

Monday: Chest/Tri's
Hammer Wide Press - x15, x12, x8, x6, x6
Flat DB Press - x8, x8, x8
Pushdowns - x12, x8, x8, x6 (dropset)

Tuesday: Legs, Calves
45 Degree Press - x15, x10, x6
Hacks - x10, x9, x6
Lying Curl - x12, x12, x8
Abductors - x12, x12, x10, x5
Standing Calf Raise - x20, x15, x12, x10, x8 (dropset)

Wednesday: Off

Thursday: Back, Traps
Hammer Pulldown - x15, x12, x8, x8, x7
Seated Cable Rows - x8, x8, x7 (dropset)
Hyperextensions - x15, x15, x15
DB Shrugs - x15, x12, x10 (dropset)

Friday: Shoulders, Bi's
Hammer Shoulder Press - x12, x8, x8, x8
Cybex Lateral Raise - x11 (dropset)
Hammer Preacher Curl - x15, x12, x8, x6, x6
Standing BB Curl - x8, x8 (dropset)

I havent actually done this split yet, im currently doing a M(chest, tri, bi), W(legs), F(back, shoulders) split... but im finding im spending far too long in the gym (90 mins).

Was wondering what everyone thought of this new 4 day split (maybe i should work diff things together?), and also, your critique of my routine. I feel like i've got some holes in it.... Would it help if i listed the weights as well?

Thanks.



Posted by: Prince

the volume is actually a bit low for my taste, but it's okay. I assume all working sets will be to failure and that is the reason for such low volume, right?



Posted by: J'Bo

whats a hammer wide press?
on second thought...whats with all the hammer movements?
you a carpenter or something?



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by Prince
the volume is actually a bit low for my taste, but it's okay. I assume all working sets will be to failure and that is the reason for such low volume, right?
Yep, all working sets are to failure.

I was actually doing more working sets previously, but it seemed to be the opinion of this board that that could lead to overtraining - so i lowered the volume.

Often im still feeling very pumped and could do a few more good sets, but just restrain myself.



Posted by: Prince

many things can ultimately lead to overtraining, going to failure on all working sets every work-out can lead you to overtraining as well.



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by J'Bo
whats a hammer wide press?
on second thought...whats with all the hammer movements?
you a carpenter or something?


sorry, hammer is just a brand of equipment my gym uses. like cybex.

i tend to use more machine exercises than most, as i dont have a training partner... and training to failure on certain exercises without a spot can be rather hazardous... like benching (although i must say, from personal experience, you havent truly known how far you can push yourself until youve got a bar with too much weight on it 6 inches from your larynx and no one else around - talk about a 'train as if your life depends on it' attitude )



Posted by: Prince

Just be careful, if you do not use dumbbells and barbells you are neglecting the synergistic muscles and can eventually lead to injury, especially rotator cuffs.

I train alone and never have a spot.



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by Prince
many things can ultimately lead to overtraining, going to failure on all working sets every work-out can lead you to overtraining as well.
yeah, i suppose thats right... i dont feel that im in an overtrained state atm, though.

how many working sets per bodypart would you recommend? and should large muscles have more working sets than smaller muscles?



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by Prince
Just be careful, if you do not use dumbbells and barbells you are neglecting the synergistic muscles and can eventually lead to injury, especially rotator cuffs.

I train alone and never have a spot.
Yeah, i use DB's quite a bit. It's the BB's i avoid...

How can you go to failure on stuff like bench press without a spot?



Posted by: Prince

I like to do around 6 for small body parts and 9 for large (on average).

I never go to absolute failure on exercises like free weight bench press.



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by Prince
I like to do around 6 for small body parts and 9 for large (on average).

I never go to absolute failure on exercises like free weight bench press.
ahh... ok.

on kind of a seperate note - is there a general rule to follow for the length of rest intervals?

im using 90 sec RI's for everything but legs, which is 120 secs.



Posted by: Prince

for the type of training you're doing I would say 2-3 minutes rest intervals.



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by Prince
for the type of training you're doing I would say 2-3 minutes rest intervals.
youch!

what am i supposed to do with all that time? bring a book i guess?



Posted by: J'Bo

or check out some chicks in your gym....just ask kuso about chick watchin in the gym or Dave he is a master(bater)....just a suggestion though. <this is j'bo's way of lightening up a thread and trying to make you laugh...please dont take offense>



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by J'Bo
or check out some chicks in your gym....just ask kuso about chick watchin in the gym or Dave he is a master(bater)....just a suggestion though. <this is j'bo's way of lightening up a thread and trying to make you laugh...please dont take offense>
LOL... no worries, its hard to make me take offense to anything.

id spend more time checking out the chicks in my gym if i wasnt so afraid theyd beat me up for it... some of them are HUGE



Posted by: J'Bo

really? yikes....hopefully i scare some of the guys in my gym too maybe that should be my new goal...get big enough to scare the boys away.



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by J'Bo
really? yikes....hopefully i scare some of the guys in my gym too maybe that should be my new goal...get big enough to scare the boys away.
just grunt and scream as you military press a couple 45's, that should do the trick



Posted by: J'Bo

no they just think that i am moaning and it kinda defeats the whole purpose....45's hey....not gonnsa happen anytime soon.



Posted by: sawheet

JBO moaning, I liky



Posted by: jasonbrunt

i use the same split currently, but I was advised by some folks in here to group biceps w/chest and triceps w/back...just not on back to back days.



Posted by: Twin Peak

Quote:
Originally posted by Monolith
Yea or Nay?

Sets in red are actual working sets.

Monday: Chest/Tri's
Hammer Wide Press - x15, x12, x8, x6, x6
Flat DB Press - x8, x8, x8
Pushdowns - x12, x8, x8, x6 (dropset)

Tuesday: Legs, Calves
45 Degree Press - x15, x10, x6
Hacks - x10, x9, x6
Lying Curl - x12, x12, x8
Abductors - x12, x12, x10, x5
Standing Calf Raise - x20, x15, x12, x10, x8 (dropset)

Wednesday: Off

Thursday: Back, Traps
Hammer Pulldown - x15, x12, x8, x8, x7
Seated Cable Rows - x8, x8, x7 (dropset)
Hyperextensions - x15, x15, x15
DB Shrugs - x15, x12, x10 (dropset)

Friday: Shoulders, Bi's
Hammer Shoulder Press - x12, x8, x8, x8
Cybex Lateral Raise - x11 (dropset)
Hammer Preacher Curl - x15, x12, x8, x6, x6
Standing BB Curl - x8, x8 (dropset)
1) You should be in the 8-12 working sets per BP per week.

2) Chest needs inclines, somewhere.

3) Tris need some power movement, closegrips, skull crushers, overhead DB press, etc.

4) Legs kill abductors, add squats or at least front squats. Do SLDL for hammies in addition to or instead of curls.

5) Back needs more work, also needs power movements. You should add deadlifts and rows at least. Deads -- learn to love em. Rows can alternate from barbell to DB to T-Bar. Seated cables are you be used sparingly.

6) Shoulders -- guess what my comments are going to be. Add pressing movements -- DBs or barbell to the front. Cybex machine? Come on man, grab them dumbbells, and do them seated. Need bent over laterals for those rear heads.

7) Flip flop the exercise order.

Overall you stray away from power movements, and do to many hammer strength machines.



Posted by: dg806

Quote:
Originally posted by Twin Peak

2) Chest needs inclines, somewhere.
Hey, how about telling this to Chicken Little!!



Posted by: Twin Peak

Quote:
Originally posted by dg806
Hey, how about telling this to Chicken Little!!
I have, repeatedly. He is even starting to do them now. I think. We still disagree, however.



Posted by: CaptainDeadlift

Quote:
Originally posted by Monolith
How can you go to failure on stuff like bench press without a spot?
You can use a power cage. I can set the safety bar just above my throat which enables me to turn me head sideways and slide out. You'll need a bench just the right height for your body. Forturnately the gym where I train has just a set-up.



Posted by: dg806

Quote:
Originally posted by Twin Peak
I have, repeatedly. He is even starting to do them now. I think. We still disagree, however.
Damn!! (DG's in disbelief!)



Posted by: Twin Peak

Or, you can simply ask for a spot. I do.



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by Twin Peak
1) You should be in the 8-12 working sets per BP per week.

2) Chest needs inclines, somewhere.

3) Tris need some power movement, closegrips, skull crushers, overhead DB press, etc.

4) Legs kill abductors, add squats or at least front squats. Do SLDL for hammies in addition to or instead of curls.

5) Back needs more work, also needs power movements. You should add deadlifts and rows at least. Deads -- learn to love em. Rows can alternate from barbell to DB to T-Bar. Seated cables are you be used sparingly.

6) Shoulders -- guess what my comments are going to be. Add pressing movements -- DBs or barbell to the front. Cybex machine? Come on man, grab them dumbbells, and do them seated. Need bent over laterals for those rear heads.

7) Flip flop the exercise order.

Overall you stray away from power movements, and do to many hammer strength machines.
Monday -
Hammer Press x3
Flat DB Press x3
Incline DB Press x3

Skullcrusher x3
V-Bar Pushdown x3
(I have a feeling my tri's will be dead by this point... but if i can still move 'em, ill throw in some dips?)

Tuesday -
Squats x3
Hacks x3
45 Press x3
Deadlifts x3 (no idea how to do this... can someone post a link to one of those .gif's that illustrates em?)
Seated/Lying Curl x3

Wednesday -
OFF

Thursday -
Hammer Pulldown x3
Deadlifts x3 (Are these the same style of deadlift as on Tuesday? Or do i use a different form to target the back?)
Rows x3 (Unsure of correct form on these, too.)
(Seated Cable Rows - Used sparingly... why is this?)

Standing BB Shrugs x3
Seated DB Shrugs x3 (no idea how my grip is going to last by this point... maybe its time i finally get some straps)

Friday -
Hammer Shoulder Press x3
DB Military Press x3
Bent Over Lateral Raise x3 (On these... i had done them previously, but was again unsure of my form, and was feeling it a bit in my back... so thats why i started using the cybex instead. If someone could link to one of those .gif's again, id appreciate it.)

Seated Alt DB Curl x3
Hammer Preacher Curl x3
Standing BB Curl x3

Ok... now, is that an improvement? Still need tweaking, TP? What do you think about adding some dropsets in there? As for "flip-flop"ing the exercise order... does that mean just reverse the entire routine (monday uses fri routine, etc)? Or are there certain things i should reverse?

And if anyone else would like to say something, please feel free... no matter how small the comment. Prince? I'm sure you've got something to say.



Posted by: dvlmn666

Quote:
Originally posted by Twin Peak

5) Back needs more work, also needs power movements. You should add deadlifts and rows at least. Deads -- learn to love em. Rows can alternate from barbell to DB to T-Bar. Seated cables are you be used sparingly.

Overall you stray away from power movements, and do to many hammer strength machines.
This guy sounds like me up until last Nov. TP is right dude the deads are killer and help result in great overall strength increases.

Grab Dumbells and stay away from the Barbells unless you ask somebody to spot ya. Other than that freeweights are the best, I've found that out now, also feel like I've wasted alot of time those years I based my routine on machines.

TP, I thought you had a training partner?



Posted by: Twin Peak

My training partner showed up today for the first time in 6 weeks. Still last week I did incline barbell presses (335 for 5) without a spot, and got a spot for my next set.

Mono -- meant flip your 2 bi exercises.

Stiff legged deadlifts are different.

Add drop sets from time to time, but not always.

Can someone help him on form, etc? I am swamped.



Posted by: CaptainDeadlift

If you are worried about your triceps being shot after having worked chest, pair biceps with chest and do triceps on the same day as shoulders.


For information on various lifts, go here:

http://exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift
If you are worried about your triceps being shot after having worked chest, pair biceps with chest and do triceps on the same day as shoulders.


For information on various lifts, go here:

http://exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html
I think i might take your suggestion on swapping bi's and tri's. You dont think that's a lil excessive, though? Working tri's indirectly on monday, then hitting them again on friday?

And thanks for that exrx link, i just spent 20 mins trying to search the forums for it.



Posted by: CaptainDeadlift

Quote:
Originally posted by Monolith
I think i might take your suggestion on swapping bi's and tri's. You dont think that's a lil excessive, though? Working tri's indirectly on monday, then hitting them again on friday?
I've been using that split for a while and like it. I do shoulders and triceps on Monday and chest with biceps on Friday. That seems to be enough time for the triceps to recover for the chest workout.



Posted by: jasonbrunt

hey TP...

I have a question about your advice about the back. Why use the seated cable rows sparingly? Curious for my own routine...



Posted by: Twin Peak

Quote:
Originally posted by jasonbrunt
hey TP...

I have a question about your advice about the back. Why use the seated cable rows sparingly? Curious for my own routine...
Because it is FAR less effective than barbell rows for building a thick back where your lats, bulge out the side of your shirt, and from behind you look like a roadmap.

Dumbbell rows, then T-bars are better alternatives.

Then said, I work in seated cables from time to time, particularly when I am drained or low in energy, or short in time.



Posted by: Monolith

Ugh... i just did the new "monday" routine, and im still way over 45-60 mins.

I did:
Hammer Press x3 (x2 warmups)
Flat DB Press x3
Incline DB Press x2

Seated Alt DB Curls x3
Hammer Preacher Curl x3
Standing Curl - Straight Bar x2, cambered x1 (forearms were startin to bother me)

And finally i did just 4 sets of calves... i was tired out.

All that took me about 75-90 mins. 90-105 sec RI's except on calves, which were 120.

Maybe i need to look at a 5 day split...



Posted by: Twin Peak

I can do 1 BP in 30-45 minutes, tops. If you want to shorten it, you should do chest and tris and back and bis as the tris and bis will already be warm, and you can get away with less work.



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by Twin Peak
I can do 1 BP in 30-45 minutes, tops. If you want to shorten it, you should do chest and tris and back and bis as the tris and bis will already be warm, and you can get away with less work.
Looking at the monday routine i just did, how long would that take you?

Maybe my RI's are just too long? I do tend to take my time with each rep... i seem to be a bit slower than most people at my gym, anyway.



Posted by: Twin Peak

Same, between 75-90 minutes. I take a long time to warm up.



Posted by: Monolith

Quote:
Originally posted by Twin Peak
Same, between 75-90 minutes. I take a long time to warm up.
bah!

5 day routine it is...



Posted by: jasonbrunt

Just curious...why not do the calves on the same day as the rest of your legs?

It just seems like a lot of work doing chest and bi's AND calves on the same day. It takes me about an hour to do my monday chest/bi routine, and I'm totally spent by the time I walk out of there. 5-day could be the answer too, I just read your reply about that.



Posted by: CaptainDeadlift

Quote:
Originally posted by Monolith
Looking at the monday routine i just did, how long would that take you?
Some of it may depend on the dynamics of the gym. For instance, do you have to wait for others to finish or are other people working in with you?

Not sure about your routine, but last Friday I did chest (10 sets), biceps (8) and abs (8) in about 55 minutes. Warm-up took about 10 additional minutes. I super-set the biceps and abs. Perhaps you could super-set the biceps and calves to reduce overall time.



Posted by: Kuzinbo





Yeah... get bigger... I likes em big... I won't be a-sared...

Quote:
J'Bo: really? yikes....hopefully i scare some of the guys in my gym too maybe that should be my new goal...get big enough to scare the boys away.





(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)





vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37