Fina FAQ (another) [Forum Archive]

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Fina FAQ (another)

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Posted by: capinatl

If your board name is mentioned in this article and you want it removed please contact me at capinatl@ziplip.com. Many of my experiences and beliefs are not commonplace, and that is O.K. We are all free to develop our own opinions.

KITMAKERS
The standard conversion potency kits will yield is 75mg trenbolone per ml; however, more and more kitmakers are going to a 100mg/ml yield. Most kitmakers post “magic dissolving solution” on their sites as part of their kit which is actually benzyl alcohol, commonly referred to as “BA”. Just about any kitmaker you find on the Internet is probably legit as I’ve yet to hear of any scamming kitmaker. Most people, including myself, have a favorite kitmaker due to service and reputation in the bodybuilding community. I’ve used 5 different kitmakers kits and have achieved cycle results with all kits.

A few experienced trenbolone conversion users like to make their own kits by purchasing all that is needed from Internet suppliers, and even kitmakers. This is certainly not cheaper or more user friendly, but I think desirable because some trenbolone users develop a very personal relationship with their conversion product. I always suggest buying a kit as it’s the easiest, cheapest and safest way to suspend your trenbolone. There is a lot more room for error in your conversion if you assemble the kit yourself. IMO, if you haven’t done four or five conversions there is no advantage in producing the kit yourself.

HOMEBREW VS. PRE-MADE
When trenbolone is suspended by yourself at home you can be assured of two things; potency and sterility. When you purchase pre-made trenbolone from an underground lab (UG) you cannot be guaranteed of either of these issues. Additionally, the price fro pre-made trenbolone can be outrageous – I’ve seen prices from $8 per ml to $14 per ml. Conversion with a kit and Finaplix will const about $2.65 per ml, you will NOT find trenbolone pre-made from a source for less than $5 per ml.

PELLETS VS. POWDER
The most common conversion method involves dissolving Finaplix brand pellets, suspending the trenbolone acetate in oil, separating the methylcellulose and filtering the suspended product. With trenbolone acetate in powder form we have the luxury of not dealing with the methylcellulose and simply dissolving and suspending trenbolone in solvents and oil. This method is obviously more desirable and becoming more popular. One security in using Finaplix pellets is you know you are receiving true trenbolone. If you have access to powder be sure you know your source. Whether you use pellets or powder I promise you will benefit from trenbolone results.

CLOUDY FINA, THE COFFEE FILTER & BAKING
Cloudy fina is completely fine, just a cosmetic issue; fina legend basskiller has said that if you let the suspended trenbolone sit for a day before filtering with a Whatman filter and/or coffee filter your conversion will come out clearer. Many homebrewers ask if using the coffee filter is necessary – it is not. I utilize the coffee filter after I’ve filtered all I can through the Whatman. I pour the leftover sludge into a coffee filter and squeeze out all I can with my fingers and then filter that through the Whatman filter. This can yield another 4 or 5 mls in your conversion. Most coffee filter users pour their whole conversion through the filter which takes all night, and then filters through the Whatman filter for a very clear conversion. I bake my fina for 30 minutes at 250 degrees. Some suggest baking for 45 minutes, and still others suggest baking for 15 minutes, cooling, and repeating two more times. One thing is universal, and that is the baking temperature of 250 degrees. It is brutally important that you obtain an oven thermometer to calibrate your oven to 250 degrees. Rarely have I used an oven that was accurate. In order to destroy your trenbolone you will have to bake it at 400 degrees according to most fina fanatics, so don’t worry if you are a few degrees too high.

CONVERSION MATHEMATICS
Each Finaplix cartridge contains 2000mg (or 2 grams) or trenbolone acetate, so you would need 2 cartridges for a “4g” kit conversion. The following recipe is intended for a 4g kit: 8ml BA, 42ml oil, and 4000mg (4 grams) of Finaplix pellets. This will yield an end product of 75mg/ml which is the standard conversion. Add your volumes of oil+pellets+BA and divide that number into 4000 for a 4gram kit conversion. 4grams of fina is approximately equal to 4mls.

8mlBA+4gTREN+42ml oil divided into 4000 = 74.07mg/ml.

CONVERSION VARIATIONS
Now, most homebrewers will say that the BA will NOT fully dissolve more than the recommended amount of trenbolone pellets than comes in your kit. For instance, if you use two 2g carts in your 2 g kit you really won't double your potency to 200mg/ml if your kit is designed for 100mg/ml. They will tell you you've wasted a lot of fina. However, I've not seen any tests done on this method of increased potency conversion - so until then I'm somewhat a skeptic. Animal, who is a respected chemist, of sorts, has also said the same thing (that extra carts are a waste). The most trusted method (myself included) of increasing potency strength is to leave out some oil, thus increasing trenbolone ratio to total volume. The biggest negative is that the injections may cause more soreness as the BA ratio is higher than desired by most users. The other problem is that there is skepticism as to whether or not the lower volume of oil will suspend the trenbolone. Once again, I think the jury is out unless someone runs tests.

I don't have the time or care to invest the money to have my conversions tested for potency, so all I have to go by is my experience with physical results and sides while on fina to determine my likely yield potencies. The last kit I got I modified to reduce pain as I am very sensitive to intramuscular fina shots. I've lowered the amounts of BA and added Benzyl Benzoate (BB) as the BB is reputed to help in post injection soreness. The BB will also dissolve and help sterilize the converted product, but allegedly to a lesser degree than BA (of dissolving power especially). This was my last conversion recipe:

2mlBA+4mlBB+4gTREN+29ml oil divided into 4000 = 102.5mg/ml.

This batch was painless, and according to my results was probably under the calculated potency strength of 102.5. I believe this is because I was in a hurry to dissolve and only swirled it for about one hour, and didn't use heat as an aid.

This is my latest attempt at a high potency conversion:

2mlBA+6mlBB+6gTREN+26ml oil divided into 6000 = 150mg/ml

One key thing I've chosen to do differently is to let it dissolve for about three days. I believe that the trenbolone had dissolved nicely, but then I am going solely on visual comparisons to other successful batches I've converted. I also utilized heat just before I completed the conversion as an extra measure. I’ve tested the conversion and could taste the fina even when mixed with testosterone, but until I cycle this conversion alone I can’t comment on the potency accuracy.

DOSAGES
On my first fina cycle I started with testosterone and 75mg trenbolone EOD and exploded in strength, vascularity and hardness. After a few more cycles with fina and experimenting with dosages ranging from 75mg EOD to 112.5mg ED I have concluded for myself that 150mg EOD is all I desire. At 75mg EOD I receive some results, but nothing outstanding. At 150mg EOD I gain in size, strength, vascularity and hardness – however – at this dosage I also receive negative side effects like shoulder and lower back cramping, aggression, heartburn, sleeplessness and night sweats. For me, when I begin to get negative side effects I also begin to get positive sides as well. At higher dosages like 112.5mg ED my side effects become unbearable. The muscle cramping pain becomes so intolerable that I often have to stop my workouts, quick in the middle of squat routines, avoid deadlifts, and even totally skip shoulder days. I’ve come to the conclusion that trenbolone dosage is a unique balance of sides vs. results. Once the sides prevent me from achieving my workout goals or force me to modify my routine drastically, it’s time to cut back.

I have a good friend who included trenbolone in his second cycle at 100mg EOD with testosterone and told me he wanted to go to 100mg ED. To this day I still regret replying with a simple, “O.K.” as his side effects went through the roof. His aggression and attitude changed so much that his mother said to her normally laid back son, “What happened to my son? I don’t even know you anymore!” He said he couldn’t control himself around his family and girlfriend and unfortunately both relationships dissolved before his cycle completion. Now there are a few on the boards who have done 150mg ED, but all I’ve been in direct contact with have said those high doses have left them with a sour taste for trenbolone. My friend won’t even consider using trenbolone again.

CYCLE DURATION
I’ve done fina for 8 week cycles and even as long as 20 weeks. Post-cycle recovery has not been an issue for me at either duration. Kendahl69 has some lengthy experience with a propionate and fina cycle and I’ve not heard a negative word about fina from him either. As with any AAS, cycle duration decisions have more to do with post-cycle recovery experience and stats than any other factor.

A great cycle might look like this:

Wk 1-4 Dianabol 30mg ED
Wk 1-6 Testosterone Enanthate 500mg wk
Wk 1-8 Trenbolone Acetate 75mg EOD

A next level cycle might look like this:

Wk 1-4 Dianabol 30mg ED
Wk 1-8 Testosterone Enanthate 750mg wk
Wk 1-10 Trenbolone Acetate 150mg EOD
Wk 1-13 Arimidex .25mg EOD

My favorite fina cycle:

Wk 1-4 Anadrol 50mg ED
Wk 1-10 Testosterone Enanthate 250mg EOD (875wk)
Wk 1-12 Trenbolone Acetate 150mg EOD
Wk 1-15 Arimidex .50mg EOD
Wk 1-12 Bromocriptine 1.25mg BID
(Normally I've started and ended this cycle with Prop, but for simplicities sake I've posted it as is.)

CLOMID POST CYCLE
Day 1 - 300mgs
Day 2 - 200mgs
Days 3-14 - 100mg x 12 days
Days 15-21 - 50mgs x 7 days

NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS
As with any androgenic anabolic steroid (AAS) side effects include acne, hairloss, high blood pressure, shutdown of endogenous testosterone production and more uniquely; sleeplessness, night sweats, aggression, and shoulder and/or lower back muscle pain. I am one that is very prone to male pattern baldness and have had not lost one hair while on any cycle, including trenbolone. For heartburn I find a jar of Tums will get me through the cycle. I’ve tried Melatonin, a natural sleep aid, with moderate success. The most uncomfortable side effect I get is the shoulder and lower back muscle pain. Many refer to this as a cramp, but it’s more of an endless burn. Drinking 1.5 gallons of water per day has helped me moderately. BillyGman has suggested to many to utilize 500mg of Magnesium bi-daily (BID) and avoid the urban legend of Potassium to reduce muscle cramping. There are quite a few board members who have found Magnesium helpful. I’ve tried the Magnesium BID with moderate success.

FINA COUGH
Many fina users experience the dreaded fina cough eventually. I do believe some are more prone to the cough than others. G-S has done 400 fina injections with only one fina cough experience. I get the cough on almost every inject. There is a lot of speculation as to the catalyst of the fina cough and equal speculation to the validity of each argument. Many people say it’s the solvent, benzyl alcohol, but because “BA” is used in numerous other injectables as a solvent with no symptomatic cough I doubt this theory. I find it more likely that it is an issue directly related to trenbolone acetate, or possibly as has also been suggested on the boards by Hugh, a combination of the solvent and trenbolone. One preventative measure to fina cough I’ve found to be successful is to slow down the injection as soon as I get the “alcohol” taste in my mouth; pause and continue the injection and I can avoid the cough entirely. The most fail-proof preventative action is to mix the trenbolone with testosterone/equipoise or another injectable. Most often my fina/test cycles consist of 150mg EOD fina and 875mg test wk, so mixing 1.5mls trenbolone and 1ml of test enanthate EOD is not only a powerful cycle, but one that maintains consistent blood levels with no fina cough at all.

FINA DICK
Unless you are a monk in the Himalayas you are probably concerned with maintaining your erectile function at maximum capacity. Like deca (deca dick), trenbolone is a powerful androgenic anabolic steroid and will shut down your HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular-axis) with authority. Most users that do the mistaken fina only cycle find their erectile function ceases around week 5 or 6 of their cycle. There is a small minority of fina only cyclers that claim they actually have a sex drive increase while on fina, but I promise you this is a minority. One board member I’ve known, NeverDie, experienced an additional emotional rollercoaster he wouldn’t wish on his worst enemy. Stacking testosterone with trenbolone will prevent any erectile dysfunction, even at 250mg per week, but for better cycle results 500mg per week is highly suggested. Most importantly, the synergistic effect of combining testosterone with trenbolone will yield substantial results in your cycle.

FINA, DECA & BROMOCRIPTINE
Because both trenbolone and deca durabolin increase prolactin levels they are not suggested to stack together. Estrogen related side effects are considerably easier to combat than progesterone related side effects. There are a few users who stack the two together, and even one underground lab that makes a fina & deca blend as one of their premier products - but you won’t see me test any. Bromocriptine is prescribed to Parkinson Disease patients and is an affordable prolactin blocker (Dostinex is another). A lot of fina users take bromocriptine at 1.25mg BID to combat high prolactin levels, and is often said to strictly follow that dosage as any more than that reduces IGF-1 levels, but I’ve seen no study confirming this statement. From what I’ve learned I don’t believe bromocriptine is even necessary for doses of 75mg ED and lower. If you are one of the rare users that experience bloating on fina then you will likely find bromocriptine beneficial, but probably not necessary to block prolactin levels. There is a lot of talk on the boards that gynocomastia caused by high progesterone levels cannot be combated with nolvadex, but I don’t believe this to be accurate as estrogen must be present in order to induce gynocomastia. Delving into these subjects further would require another article.

TYPICAL TRENBOLONE CYCLE RESULTS
Any experienced AS user knows it is impossible to predict someone’s anticipated results from any steroid cycle, let alone trenbolone. Often trenbolone is stacked with testosterone and an oral to kickstart the cycle and many will say a cycle as such can be a bulker or a cutter depending on diet. Personally I find I get true “quality gains” with trenbolone; meaning for the most part what I get on cycle I pretty much keep. Usually I even find my strength 6 weeks post cycle is what it was during my cycle peak. A lot of users simply blow up on a fina/test cycle. Certainly strength, vascularity and hardness are common to all who use fina, and should be expected – but as far a weight gain goes – this cannot be answered.

FOR THE NEWBIE?
I believe most will disagree with me here, but I don’t think I made any great mistake including trenbolone in my first cycle. I studied and researched trenbolone and concluded that the benefit vs. side effect ratio was ideal, even if trenbolone was the most androgenic steroid available. I was aware that trenbolone had caused female fry fish to change gender and was only allowed to be used in cattle just prior to slaughter, but stacked with test – it was a hard to beat “bang for buck” cycle, and I still feel this way. If you are a first time user and decide to go over 75mg EOD - that’s your own decision – and not one recommended by most fina users. Be careful and watch your sides. Just like any other AAS, this is not a game so be safe.

-capinatl

Posted by: Mudge

Great post, I hate clomid though

HCG, nolva + clomid for me.

Posted by: ZECH

Hey Mudge, why don't you add this to the bottom of the other Fina Faq and have this in the sticky also!

Posted by: Mudge

I can make this one a sticky at least for awhile, the other thread is Prince's

Posted by: capinatl

Very flattering, thanks guys. I would have posted it with Prince's but as you know it's a closed thread.

Posted by: KyJef

Hey Guys, I am ooing for a one stop shop, that will include everything I need to convert fina, minus the pellets and syringes.

I have tried a few places and the ones I have tried either dont give me enough info that it includes all that I need or their website is not available.

Any and all info is greatly appreciated

Posted by: whey2fast

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyJef

Hey Guys, I am ooing for a one stop shop, that will include everything I need to convert fina, minus the pellets and syringes.

I have tried a few places and the ones I have tried either dont give me enough info that it includes all that I need or their website is not available.

Any and all info is greatly appreciated

Try finaflow they are a very reliable source or at least have been for me so far.

Posted by: wickedwayz

Finaflow all the way. For some reason this taste in the mouth most talk about I have not experienced. I do my inj very slow though so that may be why. Shortness of breath is my main deal. Seems I'm runing out of breath alot faster than normal.

Posted by: whey2fast

Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwayz

Finaflow all the way. For some reason this taste in the mouth most talk about I have not experienced. I do my inj very slow though so that may be why. Shortness of breath is my main deal. Seems I'm runing out of breath alot faster than normal.

Make sure you do plenty of cardio at least 20 or 30 minutes every other day. Man that happens to me a lot and I can't sleep and sweat like crazy. The cool thing is that the tren is better quality and much cheaper than any I have ever ordered from over seas.
Have you tried their new ultra kits or know any one who has? thinking of trying the winni kit or the one for powders to make deca.

Posted by: PieEyedPiper

Great thread! Question though, I googled Kitmakers, and found some kits, but the ones I found were lacking the pellets. I looked at a couple of the sponsor sites and couldn't find them there either. Am I just looking in the wrong places?

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