Well here I go again, Whats the real deal about ATP and AMP, and how or if these products can be helpful. I been reading that it's that deal for race horses and greyhounds( AMP) and I also have been reading that we use ATP in everything that we do, if thats true then it's got to be useful for something. Does anybody know the deal on if this stuff is toxic and if so in what kind of doseages.
Posted by: plouffe
AMP gets converted into ATP. W/o being converted AMP is just a waste product or someshit, but uses enery for the conversion. ahh... ATP is good weee.... and ummm.. I've see ATP triphoshate that is taking through the nostrals.. Not sure what brand.
You got any ideas on injectible doses. and am I correct in assuming that this will help in muscle recovery?
Posted by: plouffe
You are very correct, but im not even sure on how stable this shit is, especially intravenislly. Also I think after to much your body would stop absorbing...
Posted by: plouffe
Also I dont know where you could even find an injectible form. The shit i showed you is the only form I've seen in my life
ATP (adnenine-tri-phosphate) is a adnenine molecule (which is a nucleotide used in many parts of the cell- like DNA and RNA) with three high energy phosphate bonds attached to it. It is the most preffered energy source for many chemical reactions (however other nucleotide triphosphates like GTP are also used)
AMP is adnenine mono (meaning 1) phosphate. Obvously this is lower in energy then the ATP
Why you dont need to take ATP or AMP:
1) Your body has no trouble making it (meaning it is not the thing which is limiting your strength or endurance)
2) and ATP is made as it is used- meaning when a muscle cell wants to contract the ATP is made at that moment.
- If i was to remove all the ATP from your body right now there wouldnt even be just barely enought o fit on a pin head- yet everyday you use boats loads(a bit of an exageration) of ATP!
What the cell makes ATP out of is creatine phosphate ,sugar (or fat, or proein) and oxygen- this is overly simplified but it tells you the basics. If you want more ATP availible to your body you need to either give it creatine, oxygen, or more sugar.
Posted by: Mikhal
Much Love my brotha, Yeah, yeah. sounds good even I understood that plainly. I have a question remaining then that should make sence. If I don't use creatine,( because I don't like the bloated feeling I get ,plus the water weight it adds to me sucks) and my diet is one that is really low in sugars Do think at that point ATP or Kynoselen ( which I'm starting to realize is just AMP)would do anything to add in recovery time.
Posted by: ice
In all honesty I don't know for certain. My background knowledge (physiology honors student) says no. Your recovery from exerciseing is primarily dependant on three things
1)proteins
2) growth factors (testosterone mainly)
3) lack of stress (cortisol, lack of sleep etc.)
Your body does not need to have sugar to make sugar (ie sugar is not lke a vitamin which your body cannot make). So i still wouldnt worry about being atp deficient. It is simply never going to happen unless you have a bodyfat percentage of 0% you eat no forms of carbs (starch, sugar or whatever) and you have no muscles (which are the bodys main energy source after fat and sugar are depleted)
I dont take creatine either as it has never affected me.
My best suggestion to improve your recovery is to focus on increaseing one of the three factors I listed above.
I hope this helps
Posted by: Mikhal
I just checked my bodyfat, 4% I'm pretty lean, feel like a tiger though.Do you think I'm low enough in bodyfat to benefit from ATP if used with L-Carnitine.I'm just looking for some ways to increase my recover times, I get 60 second between rounds and I like to come out like every round is the the first. That's not a problem thank God, but I'm carrying a lot more muscle than ever before and I'm just making sure that I'm preparing properly. Yo Yo Ice Ice Baby, I had to do that. Thanks for all the lo down, thats the goods.
Posted by: ice
4% thats insane! god dam I wish i was 4%. I really dont know at this point if ATP will benifit you. You seem to be a very dedicated athlete (i've been reading some of your other posts). Sometimes what doesnt work for 99% of people will work for the 1% like you.
As far as I know ATP doesn't not cross the cell membrane. So whether you inject it, snort it or eat it it will not get into the cell (based on my very limited knowledge of the cell). The reasons why are:
1) To my knowledge ATP is never found in the plasma (blood), ADP is but that is for platlet response (blood clotting) and in that case it is only a "messenger" which tells other platlets to clot. It is not actually taken into the cell.
2) the cell membrane only lets uncharged small fats (called hydrophobic since hydro=water and phobic=fear) through. ATP is not a fat and the phosphates on it greatly reduce the likelyhood it will go through the cell membrane.
3) It is unlikely that the cell will have a transport protein for ATP. For example glucose is a sugar which can not penetrate the cell membrane. The cell will not have a transport protein for ATP since ATP is not needed by the cell (as strange as that sounds). The cell makes enough ATP.
I hope i am right on this one. The cell is insainly complex. In fact right now I have just finished study for three hours the varouse mechanisms by which cells signal to one another (such as steroids, neurotransmitter etc.) and I it is amazing that we have discovered so much about the cell. Each pathway has like 10 steps which each involve 10 other step and so on and so on. Dam this test one tuesday is going to kick my ass.
Posted by: ice
sorry that post reads so badly im really tired right now.
Posted by: Mikhal
you seem quite well studied. .You'll do fine Tues. And thanks a gang. I guess I'll just have to try and see what I feel like. Do you know at what levels I might start becoming concerned if at all about toxicity.
Posted by: ice
no idea bro
Posted by: Mikhal
Hey, I tried a 1cc dose of atp today, MAN I think that it did do something as far as my carido and muscle recovery,It could have been a number of things , but I did feel like a battery. And One thing I noticed for sure, I seen more vains than I ever seen in my life,chest,abs,quaids.It was freaky. Got any ideas on why that happened.
Posted by: ice
No idea bro. It sounds like your a machine to begin with so probably if you ate a teaspoon of basil it would do something good for you. I still cant belive you 4% bf. How do you stay so low? Do you have like a super strict diet or is it just do shit loads of cardio?
Right now Im trying to cut from 16-17% body fat. I eat about 10 cal/pounds and its im losing weight but its slow. Got any suggestions?
Posted by: Mikhal
I am a machine, "the violent machine" playa, I thought you knew ha ha!I can only tell you what it is that "fighters and Myself" do which may not work for what you are looking for in bb. Yep at 8 weeks before a fight the diet starts to change, oh by the way I'm a veggie no meat at all for over 20 yrs, that in itself may play a role in my case. But I up my protein and boost my carbs just a touch( to survive through lots of cardio)and I get rid of all fatty stuff. If I'm fighting at 147lbs then I wear a sauna suit 3 times a week during my boxing /kickboxing training. If I'm doing it at 155lbs I skip that shit. I drink as much water as I can for 2 reasons at that point 1 to stay on point with keeping enough water in my system,2. helps my not to feel so hungry cause I'm so full of water ha ha!I lift 5 days aweek up until 2 weeks before the fight, at week 1 I lift one day light. I RUN LIKE HELL 5or 6 days a week, cus I'd rather run on the road ,then run in the octagon. I grapple 3 days a week, and try to workin some jujitsu at least a couple hours on the weekend.Sounds like a lot but I go away to training camp, and really ain't shit else to do but train hard, Plus my trainer cops the Hitler attitude , we both be beefing and He don't know this time I'll be Halo raging ha ha ha. Fuck it Basically all I can say is what everybody else is sprinkling around this piece,diet and hella ,hella ,hella cardio. In the end though ,it's all good. Peace iceman
Posted by: ice
thats messed! your a veggie too... man that just takes the cake.
Posted by: Mikhal
Ok, just got back from the gym and I'm weighing 154lbs. I did 1.5cc of ATP and nothing else but vits,mins,protein, and BCAA's. I can say without a doubt that that stuff does something for me as far as extra energy is concerned.Did 10 rounds with a different man in every other round, I was as fresh as each guy that came in. The last 2 rounds I was pushing the issue and was basically in pitbull mode. This time I noticed that about 1 hour after the injection the vains was looking freaky again, this time even more so than yesterday, I felt atomic! I think that this stuff might work well for bodybuilders looking for the worms under the skin type of thing before a contest and such.I think it has to do with low body fat, keeping it real, I"VE GOT NO IDEA!
Posted by: Mikhal
No actually it takes the tofu, I ain't fucking with cake right now ha ha !
Posted by: Mikhal
Damn it, I knew there had to be a catch! I just woke damn near screamin from some of the most intense charle horse (cramps) that I've ever had, I drink about a gallon and a half of water a day, so I don't think it was that. Could be that I needed to do some potassium and that is possible, but I did'nt just get them in my legs, I got them everywhere! arms chest quaids, calfs, sides, back. Shit I thought I was having a fucking stroke. After a half gallon of water and 200mg of potass. and about 20 minutes of hell it was over. I might think that you want to up your potassium if you use that shit. I"ll post more as I learn ( the hard way). OUCH!!!!PEACE I'm going to try adding 1cc of maxi B-1000 tomorrow.
Posted by: ice
as long as it works. Are you mixed martial arts like UFC?
Posted by: Mikhal
Oh yeah,That's the ticket. Been offered a fight there with yeves edwards in June,but I've just got an offer to fight in Pride in July thats a little to close together for the kid so I go with whoever comes with the most chesse, which will 90% be PRIDE, Cash rules everything around me , dig it! Peace
weee.... and ummm.. I've see ATP triphoshate that is taking through the nostrals.. Not sure what brand.