Did anybody ever entertain the notion that we "create God" and "heaven" out of fear of the unknown of death? Or, to comfort us in witness to the inhumanities of humanity?

And maybe we invented Hell in order to keep a majority of the unwashed masses in decent social order. Sort of like a chimpanzee troop kicking out the one jagoff chimp that keeps fucking up. And while I'm at it with chimps did you know we share 97% of the same DNA with chimps? The reason for that is we both branched off from a common ancestor 6 millions years ago on the plains of east central Africa. Wheres that in your Adam and Eve book?

Scientists recently found the remains of a human ancestor, in the horn of Africa, thats at least 4 million years old. How long ago was Adam and Eve?

And why would it matter, in terms of human interaction, if there even was a heaven or hell? A God or not? What is the relevance? Who gives a shit? The fables behind creationism, at least to me, are the ultimate expression of human arrogance. Right up there with the pope thinking he's got a personal bee-line right to God that none of the rest of us have. When the Bible was written people thought the earth was flat, mermaids and monsters roamed the sea's, the earth was the center of the universe, the stars were the fires of heaven,humans were lucky to live to 40yo, and wannabee scientists were burned at the stake. But gee, why should we question the Bible?

Woman from a mans rib? Whats that about? What are you fucking crazy?...............your loving Uncle....... ...Uncle Rich

Neither are right.

Neither are right.

correction, you believe neither are right.

Did anybody ever entertain the notion that we "create God" and "heaven" out of fear of the unknown of death? Or, to comfort us in witness to the inhumanities of humanity?

And maybe we invented Hell in order to keep a majority of the unwashed masses in decent social order. Sort of like a chimpanzee troop kicking out the one jagoff chimp that keeps fucking up. And while I'm at it with chimps did you know we share 97% of the same DNA with chimps? The reason for that is we both branched off from a common ancestor 6 millions years ago on the plains of east central Africa. Wheres that in your Adam and Eve book?

Scientists recently found the remains of a human ancestor, in the horn of Africa, thats at least 4 million years old. How long ago was Adam and Eve?

And why would it matter, in terms of human interaction, if there even was a heaven or hell? A God or not? What is the relevance? Who gives a shit? The fables behind creationism, at least to me, are the ultimate expression of human arrogance. Right up there with the pope thinking he's got a personal bee-line right to God that none of the rest of us have. When the Bible was written people thought the earth was flat, mermaids and monsters roamed the sea's, the earth was the center of the universe, the stars were the fires of heaven,humans were lucky to live to 40yo, and wannabee scientists were burned at the stake. But gee, why should we question the Bible?

Woman from a mans rib? Whats that about? What are you fucking crazy?...............your loving Uncle....... ...Uncle Rich

Only a fool would think the Earth was created in seven days.

Read the bible and ye shall see the truth.

Read the bible and ye shall see the truth.

See, this is what I'm talking about. What is truth?..hahaha I don't think truth is the 5000 year old tales of goatherders refined by a priestly caste and portrayed as the autoritative inerrant word of God. These are creations of man for practical knowledge(for 5000 years ago) and control of the gen. populace.

I'm a firm believer in life before death. That has meaning for me. Promises of glory in heaven after I'm dead smacks of resounding bullshit. Just keep shoveling shit your whole miserable life and you'll be rewarded on your deathbed with eternal life. What a deal.

See, this is what I'm talking about. What is truth?..hahaha I don't think truth is the 5000 year old tales of goatherders refined by a priestly caste and portrayed as the autoritative inerrant word of God. These are creations of man for practical knowledge(for 5000 years ago) and control of the gen. populace.

I'm a firm believer in life before death. That has meaning for me. Promises of glory in heaven after I'm dead smacks of resounding bullshit. Just keep shoveling shit your whole miserable life and you'll be rewarded on your deathbed with eternal life. What a deal.

Just keep shoveling shit your whole miserable life and you'll be rewarded on your deathbed with eternal life. What a deal.

Hey im a committed person to friends and family. Just caught my wife cheating on me so im starting to question it myself lately. It seems good people finish last in this world. (why would that be)

I'm sorry that your wife did that to you. I hope you come out of it a stronger man. Life is not just. Live it with abandon though...and strength. Good luck Maynard.

By all means.. state what you believe, but don't for a second assume that you know the absolute truth.. what God would & would not do, what the Bible is or isn't, or suggest that 80% of the world is dillusional, believing in, as one said, 'bullshit'.

No one KNOWS anything, this is a matter of belief... that includes atheism.

You are wrong. We humans know a lot of things...look at science, philosophy, hell even rhetorical debate is a useful knowledge...I think so anyway.

Hey im a committed person to friends and family. Just caught my wife cheating on me so im starting to question it myself lately. It seems good people finish last in this world. (why would that be)

What? you mean like 77 virgins? O wait, that's not christianity. My bad. I get the two confused sometimes.

Hi Maynard,

That is always tough. Yes, you can look to yourself but you also need to look at the WHOLE picture too. It just could be that she has found someone else and that has absolutely nothing to do with you at all - it just could be. It does happen. YOU may have had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. I agree good people do seem to "finish last" but I can tell you I would never change being a good person because of that because a good person knows what is good and what is not. If you try (meaning anyone here) to "live up to" the "standards of this world" you would be very wrong because much of those "standards" are based on pure bull and not at all true or right.

People who REALLY LOVE AND APPRECIATE you for you will always BE. Those that are against you you would want to be away from anyway. It is a waste of your precious time here on this earth to try to "change" what is not meant to be. You can love someone but you can not make them love you if they really do not. And you would not want that anyway.

There are many people out there that will truly care about you. Focus on that.

Take Care, John H.

Hi Luke,

There is not a whole hell of a lot of difference. Insanity is insanity. You ARE NOT CONFUSED AT ALL.

Take Care, John H.

I meant in terms of this debate. Debate away, but no one KNOWS the answer. Science will never proove it, neither will belief in God.

I find it comical how people here are talking so matter-of-factly.

By all means.. state what you believe, but don't for a second assume that you know the absolute truth.. what God would & would not do, what the Bible is or isn't, or suggest that 80% of the world is dillusional, believing in, as one said, 'bullshit'.

No one KNOWS anything, this is a matter of belief... that includes atheism.

Also, just because you don't believe in something, putting down someone else because of it is ridiculous. I've seen John H. several times ask people not to offend him regarding certain subjects.. children, his service, etc.. yet when it comes to religion, he has no problem ripping into many people's most charished beliefs. Hypocrisy, John H.

Hi Maynard,

That is always tough. Yes, you can look to yourself but you also need to look at the WHOLE picture too. It just could be that she has found someone else and that has absolutely nothing to do with you at all - it just could be. It does happen. YOU may have had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. I agree good people do seem to "finish last" but I can tell you I would never change being a good person because of that because a good person knows what is good and what is not. If you try (meaning anyone here) to "live up to" the "standards of this world" you would be very wrong because much of those "standards" are based on pure bull and not at all true or right.

People who REALLY LOVE AND APPRECIATE you for you will always BE. Those that are against you you would want to be away from anyway. It is a waste of your precious time here on this earth to try to "change" what is not meant to be. You can love someone but you can not make them love you if they really do not. And you would not want that anyway.

There are many people out there that will truly care about you. Focus on that.

Take Care, John H.

how do we know what the truth is, how we supposed to know what god wants from us and what god said to us.... the kuran and bible and other hole books carry gods words but how we supposed to interped it corectly if we dont realy under stand it... see in my opinion we miss understood god because we dont understand god, because we aint gods we're only human.... we cant understand dogs... why ....because we aint dogs.....
we cant undertands cat why?.... because we aint cats

peace and love hehe

7-11

Thanks John. The fact is I did catch her cheating and with a very unattractive scrawny little weasel? I dont get it and she calls everynight crying on my voice mail. I do love her more then anything. We also have an adorable 2 1/2 year old son together. He was also born deaf. Basically I put every pain or hurt into the gym. She really hurt me though. Married 4 1/2 years. Whats funny is she was so controlling and possesive it wasnt even funny. Now I think I know why.

Hi Maynard,

First, the most helpful thing you can do IS working your ass off in the gym BECAUSE this will help you get the anger out of you and put that energy to GOOD use - DEVELOPING YOURSELF EVEN BETTER. The end result of that is YOU WILL GET EVEN BETTER health-wise overall.

Second, this helps you to clear your head and see things AS THEY REALLY ARE. You can NOT force someone to love you. If they do not they will not. Even if YOU love THEM to "pieces". It could be that THAT ALONE might be something that will drive them away. Everyone is different. People react differently to everything. I know this - you have a son you LOVE. He WILL KNOW THAT FOR SURE no matter what happens between you and your wife.

You can try to give your wife a chance and see what the problems may be - look at ALL sides of it HONESTLY. Hear what she might be saying to you and see if there is any truth to it. BE HONEST. She also may be someone who wants everything HER way or no way. Certainly SHE has put the seed of doubt about herself in your mind now by HER actions.

As for HER controlling that IS ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD. Some of that is ok but too much IS TOO MUCH and something you can NOT live with - nor your son.

THINK HARD about it ALL from ALL sides of it. It could be that you will have to move on. But you son will always BE your son and he will love you as you love him - he will know that because you will let him KNOW that. Don't try to force the issue - HE WILL SEE things for what they really are HIMSELF. Just make damn sure he knows you love him.

Take Care, John H.

Thanks for the advice. It has been a very difficult past 2 months. If she would stop calling me crying it would be easier. Cause every couple weeks I break and I go sleep with her and kick myself after. Another bad thing is I think shes one of the hottest women I have ever seen too. (sucks bad)

There are infinite gods who created the evolution of new gods, it's a vicious cycle, humans will one day be gods and create universes and dimensions of dementia just as our creator has done, maybe it'll just be a virtual world of electrons, protons and neutrons all neatly arranged to form different forces, energies, shapes and forms but wait isn't that the way it is now?

Also, regarding the scientific validity of some of the fairy tales in the Bible, that is also a crock. Please show me the scientific foundation and validity for angels, walking on water, changing water to wine, etc. You see what you want to see.

Creationism and popular religion are comforting self delusions in a terrible, beautiful world.

thats an interesting point of view. where did you get it?

There are infinite gods who created the evolution of new gods, it's a vicious cycle, humans will one day be gods and create universes and dimensions of dementia just as our creator has done, maybe it'll just be a virtual world of electrons, protons and neutrons all neatly arranged to form different forces, energies, shapes and forms but wait isn't that the way it is now?

thats interesting, but see not all people are the same what bout hitler? wont he be punished and what bout mother teresa she will get the same at the end as everyone else so there is no judgment day

because science is as yet unable to explain a certain phenomenon you will not believe it. thats ridiculous, ask any scientist, there are so many things out there that we as yet do not have explanations for yet undoubtedly happen.

Hi Maynard,

I DO understand. Being "...one of the hottest women..." (at least physically) is not the WHOLE package. You want someone who is good at heart and soul, all else follows.

If she is playing you she is. You are going to have to figure out if that is true or not because you do not want your life made more miserable. It is not an easy thing to do many times. Sometimes time can help and sometimes it can be harmful too.

KEEP WORKING OUT DAMN HARD though because that WILL KEEP YOU ON TRACK. And will help you make good decisions.

HANG IN THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks again John. If I can get past the unbelievable sex we have then to be honest with you there is nothing else. She a controlling, cheating, and dishonest bitch who really fucked me and our son over. I dont really want a rebound with a girl now either. Im just trying to get my head right again. Thanks for the advice.

I am.

However, unless you are the one human on earth that has proof otherwise, I'd dare say that you dont know one way or another.

both

You forgot the option: Neither, we are just one big SIMS game.

What happened to puke, I mean Luke?

Only a fool would think the Earth was created in seven days.

What happened to puke, I mean Luke?

Well u know.........I think that GOD can create a planet in seven days. Hmmm.....guess u never throght about that. Idiot.

yup! or I will slap you with my yellow hand!

scandalous, when is the funeral V?

Bible will never be wrong. God created all. 31 votes 48.44%
Darwin is right. we r nothing but just a result of evolution 33 votes 51.56%


I'm proud of the people here....51.56% as of Oct 30 2005....take stock in science over superstition...thats great but as a species we still have a long way to go.

Bible will never be wrong. God created all. 31 votes 48.44%
Darwin is right. we r nothing but just a result of evolution 33 votes 51.56%


I'm proud of the people here....51.56% as of Oct 30 2005....take stock in science over superstition...thats great but as a species we still have a long way to go.

As a species, it's ~90% for the Big Man. Quite a long way to go, indeed

As a species, it's ~90% for the Big Man. Quite a long way to go, indeed

Quoted at 16% here so probably 20-25% or so in reality.....Religions esp Christianity do not count members who become atheist/agnostic or change to another religion..

Same pie chart I saw... says of the 16%, half are theistic, but not religious. I gave you 2%.

In the end, the winners of the God/Evolution debate will be the ones who believe in God.

Or Santa

Because evolution has a strong basis in science?

They both have very little evidence. Only difference is, you place your faith in some scientists who say somehow, by chance, life was randomly created, and that single celled organisms, somehow over time turned into the wonderous entity that is the human body, instead of believing a creator designed and intended it. So drop the superiority complex, it really makes me want to puke.

Because evolution has a strong basis in science?

They both have very little evidence. Only difference is, you place your faith in some scientists who say somehow, by chance, life was randomly created, and that single celled organisms, somehow over time turned into the wonderous entity that is the human body, instead of believing a creator designed and intended it. So drop the superiority complex, it really makes me want to puke.

In the end, the winners of the God/Evolution debate will be the ones who believe in God.

In the end, the winners of the God/Evolution debate will be the ones who believe in God.

Evolution is the most idiotic thing mankind has ever thought up...

Vaginal secretions were not formed from two rocks slammin together!!!

God made those! What a freakin genius!!!!!!!!!

btw, save yourself for marraige. Or God will evolve you into a mutant. Or at least your penis...

In the end, the winners of the God/Evolution debate will be the ones who believe in God.

go fucking prey

Actually, depending on which religion is right (almost all of them say if you believe a different religion you go to hell) anywere from 1-30% win.

prey (pr)
n.

1. An animal hunted or caught for food; quarry.
2. One that is defenseless, especially in the face of attack; a victim.
3. The act or practice of preying.

The grammar Nazi strikes again!

Actually the HOLY BIBLE says that a man will be judged according to the standard he lived in life out through. Yes if you are taught about Christ and reject His teachings or that He is the way you WILL ... Even if you live well through other teachings and at a high moral standard. If you have seen His truth and yet choose to reject His truth then you have made your decision. Those of us here have ALL been given or are now given this opportunity...

However MANY will NEVER hear of Him before it's their time to move on. In such cases God will judge accordingly. If a man lived a moral life and was pure of heart he will surely see heaven gates. Even moreso he will enter in. It's not by works that we will be judged (thank GOD!) but when someone has no way of knowing Christ personally it's a different story. He neither will be judged by his works but according to the condition of his heart of hearts....... Is he full of the dark or the light?... You shine one or the other. Knowingly or not...

Ok, 1- to like 40%. happy?

prey (pr)
n.

1. An animal hunted or caught for food; quarry.
2. One that is defenseless, especially in the face of attack; a victim.
3. The act or practice of preying.

The grammar Nazi strikes again!

how was I owned?

oh i see, I spelt a word wrong! boy is my face red!

Now you've gone too far...

Green day makes shitty music, who cares what they think.

I was responding to your post! read what the albums called!

Actually, depending on which religion is right (almost all of them say if you believe a different religion you go to hell) anywere from 1-30% win.

Yes, the Bible says that you should not follow the denominations of men (which are the religions that have come about over the thousands of years)...But follow Christ's Church.

Even those that believe in God might not make it to Heaven (if there is Heaven). That was not my point.

Here is my point:

1. If there is a God, the people who don't believe will burn in Hell (they have no chance)
2. If there isn't a God, everyone will simply cease to exist when they die.

Who has something to lose?

Another person who is mistaken about what the "theory of evolution" entails. All the theory does is provide an educated guess to explain the origins of living organisms, by filling in the blanks little by little. Sure, it can never be proven in a controlled setting that a monkey can evolve into a modern man. But there is undisputable evidence that DNA can change, giving new functions to cells. There is undisputable evidence that there is a high degree of DNA sequence matches between certain species. There is undisputable fossil evidence that humanoid species existed which have characteristics somewhere in between monkey and modern day man. And given the fact that multicellular organisms only arise from pre-existing organisms through reproduction, putting all this together to try to complete a puzzle = the theory of evolution.

Does it prove modern man evolved from monkeys without a shadow of a doubt? Of course not. But at least it's based on rational thought and evidence -- that the potential for genetic change and speciation exists. What evidence is there supporting that the flying spaghetti monster exists and has some special power?

Oh, I already said that in another thread actually. The response I got was something about loosing your pride believing in something you know wasn't true.

You have that bumper sticker don't you...

What homo said that? What you lose is the ability to have fun while you are here.

no, his doesn't have canada on it!

What you lose is the ability to have fun while you are here.

Yes, the Bible says that you should not follow the denominations of men (which are the religions that have come about over the thousands of years)...But follow Christ's Church.

Even those that believe in God might not make it to Heaven (if there is Heaven). That was not my point.

Here is my point:

1. If there is a God, the people who don't believe will burn in Hell (they have no chance)
2. If there isn't a God, everyone will simply cease to exist when they die.

Who has something to lose?

Not if your christian... Then you can do whatever you want and just be sorry later.

See, I don't understand how people can buy into god so deeply. Supposedly God gave us free will, but it's not free will, it's more of a delayed punishment. How can god say "I give you the ability to choose what you want to do with your life, but if you don't live within the boundaries that I set for you, you will suffer an unimaginable eternity in the depths of Hell" It's like prisoners being allowed to leave their cells to go exercise in the yard, but THEY ARE STILL IN PRISON. And my biggest question is what benefit does god get out of all of us falling to our knees to worship him? Does he have a massive ego to feed? Did he create solely so others could praise him? That sounds a little self-centered to me. When I was a kid I ordered some of those sea monkey things. I gave them life but I didn't say "Kiss my ass or im flushing you down the toilet" I'm not trying to offend anyone, im just saying how I see it.

Not if your christian... Then you can do whatever you want and just be sorry later.

that would be missing the point.

How would that be missing the point? If you have to live a certain way or suffer for eternity, you don't actually have free will. You have "Obey me or suffer" will.

Yes, but you are also mistaken. The Theory of Evolution deals with natural selection as a means of evolution within a population, not individual organisms. It says nothing about a fish evolving into a bipedal or some other radical jump from one species to another. There was actually a lot of controversy over the fact that Darwin's Origin of Species destroyed the distinction between man and beast. Darwin's theory only states that man and apes have a common ancestor, not that one gave way to the other. There is not a high degree of DNA sequence matches in all species . The more complex the life, the more complex the DNA sequence. About 97-99% of a humans DNA is non-coding or "junk" DNA, meaning that only about 1-3% actually directly code for proteins rather than code through mutation or drift (which non-coding can possibly do).

My real beef is against those who belive intelligent design , creationism etc. should be taught alongside evolution in the classrooms as a alternative "scientific theory". This is absolutely ridiculous and makes our educational institution even more laughable....

okay, so i have a little thought that i had come to me when i was stoned the other day and arguing with my cousin about this.

lets take christianity as my example, however you can pretty much replace that with any modern religion that preaches salvation through the worship of ONLY its god. here goes:

My understanding of god is that he/she/it is a superior being, and is at all places all the time. I think the word is omni-something (omnipotent and omniscient come to mind but the definitions aren't really matching what idea about god's power i'm trying to explain). So basically even while creating the universe, he already would be in the year 2005 and would see what his creatures have become, get my drift?

so, with that being said, lets say christianity just happens to be the correct religion. why would a god, who is present everywhere in space and time and knows all, endow his creations with free will and a desire to be skeptic, meanwhile he doesn't give anyone any evidence of his/her/its existence until well into human development (there were tons of civilizations around waaaaaay before christianity, who had different ideas about god[s]).

also, if you want someone to do something, what do you do? You don't write down whatever it is you want them to do, then bury it, then hope one day they find it and blindly just go do whatever it is they see on that paper. No, you come up to them and say, "look i need you to..." and if you have any means of punishing that person for not doing what you want, wouldn't you let that person know that they will be punished with such and such a punishment for not doing what you are asking?

now think about all the different religions that have popped up all over the place, even christianity is so divided that i've lost track of all of the little divisions it has. Look at Hindu's, Buddhists, Muslims, Polythiests etc. If god truly wants us all to worship him/her/it, and truly loves us, and wants us all to go to heaven, why would he allow all of these people to create other such religions which will just earn them an eternity in hell. so i guess you can say, that if christianity is correct, and there is a christian god who will punish everyone not believing in the christian god, he is a fuckin jack off because he pretty much set up 90 percent of the world to go to hell, intentionally.

Stay off the drugs

You can remember things after being stoned????

It's an easy answer, if you're looking at it from an intellectual pov there is no reasonable proof for God, and his mythology is very shaky at best.

If you are more an emotional person who can disregard that, you can believe in something intangible.



Now, Just so I'm not on the fence here I'm an Atheist but I truly understand why people choose to believe, it's a dog eat dog world and it's comforting. I find the need to believe sometimes but I just remind myself of the facts, that there is no proof and that's all there is to it.

There is confusion throughout texts that are written very closely to the supposed death of Jesus which confuse exactly who's rule he died under, which is something you don't confuse about somebody who recently lived.

Every part of Jesus' life has pagan parallels (mother is a virgin, father is a king, unusual circumstances of conception, son of a god, at birth father tries to kill him, spirited away, told nothing of childhood, returns and goes to future kingdom, becomes king, reigns uneventfully, prescribes laws, loses favor with his subjects, driven from throne, mysterious death at the top of a hill, children don't succeed him, body not buried)

Now if you want to see the same story over again, you can read mythology that predates Christ up to 2400 years on Oedipus, Theseus, Romulus, Osiris, etc etc etc

And you can find nearly ALL of his traits in previous saviors (real big coincidence!).

Previous Saviors HAVE:

Been Born By a Virgin on December 25th
Had stars appear on their birth
Visited by Magi from the east
Turned Water in Wine
Healed the sick
Cast Out Demons
Performed Miracles
Transfigured before followers
Rode Donkeys into the city
Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver
Celebrated communal meal with bread and wine (which represented the saviors flesh and blood also)

killed on a cross
decended into hell
been resurrected on the third day
ascended into heaven to sit by his father god
etc etc tired of typing

Now if you want the Church's OFFICIAL position about all these happenings?

The Devil made up this mythology to throw us off!


Now if you're trying to look at Jesus and God from an intellectual point of view and still remain a believer you just need to GIVE IT UP.
Why? You only need to ask yourself one question, really THINK about this though. Why is there religion, I mean why does it exist, why do they keep sprouting up?

The Answer is obvious, there is a basic need to believe in us, now if it was based on RATIONALITY there would be all kinds of religions that would have came true already right? There have been thousands and THOUSANDS of religions, there should be at least a half dozen proven miraculous prophecy proven right? Wrong.

So you can quite easily conclude that religion is not based on reasonable beliefs by reasonable people.

It's primitive, and you can think your way around the nonsense if you WANT TO , that's the key.

not that that wasn't witty, or whatever you were trying to accomplish with your, oh so thought provoking remark. but you mind giving constructive criticism? if i made a mistake somewhere in my logic, or with any of my assumptions feel free to correct me.

If you are more an emotional person who can disregard that, you can believe in something intangible.