Mild scoliosis problem... [Forum Archive]

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Mild scoliosis problem...

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Posted by: cmf85ro

Well, as the title says... I am the proud owner of scoliosis (not very severe I guess but still). This reflects in:

1) unequal shoulders (right is bigger than lfet by 1-1.5 inches)
2) unqeual pecs (right is bigger here too)
3) unequal abdominal region (the left side kinda pops out if you understand what I mean...)

The question was, if anybody knows, how can I work past this problem? The main thing that troubles me is that i always seem to get a good workout for the right side but the left side feels as if it has been unworked... Any ideeas? Do you know of any exercises that might help me? I searched the net but didn't find anything actually relevant...

Tx

Posted by: S.O.S

cmf85ro,

i have the same problem. Mine isnt very severe either. My spine curves about 20 degrees to the left. I'm not a doctor or anything but i dont think your problems are from the scoliosis.

1) unequal shoulders ( my right shoulder is also bigger than left) i think this might just be because i am right handed, but i dont know about you. To try an even them out i do dumbbell shoulder press or exercises in which one shoulder does the work. do whatever you can with the left than match with the right.

2) unequal pecs (my left is bigger but my right is stronger) i think everyone has this to some degree. When i ask my friends about they dont seem to notice that one side is bigger. What you can try and do is dumbell press or anything that will isolate one side of your chest so you cant cheat with the other.

3) unequal abdominal region ( i dont have this problem) i dont know what causes this. it may even out over time or it may be genetic. I dont think one side of you abs can grow bigger or faster than the other but im not positive.

I hope this helps. Also i dont know what your doctor told you about all of this it may be the cause of your problems. You should ask if you havent already. Did you go through any physical therapy. When i found out about mine i had to go so just woundering.

Peace

Posted by: Mudge

All I know is a pro female bodybuilder of the early 90s (I can remember the name given a few days) started lifting because of scoliosis. Her doctor prescribed some back work to her (SLDL I think and who knows what else), and she fell in love with training.

So while I'm no doctor, and I have no real advice for you (I'm about worthless I suppose) make sure your back and abs are strong. Westerners love to ignore the problem hoping it gets better on its own, but it seems best to at least do a theraputic workout on problem areas, not ignore the issue like we Americans seem to love doing.

I didn't even know that it effected muscle size that much.

Posted by: ponyboy

Mudge, you are far from worthless - your advice helps many people all the time including myself!

This can be treated - your problems are probably mostly because you are right handed (which I'm assuming you are). Therefore you do most of your movements with your right side. That side therefore is stronger and tighter and pulls your whole body to one side. Scoliosis is a symptom of this problem (I just had it diagnosed myself).

How to fix it? Core strengthening but you also need to realign your body. Check my journal for what I'm doing to help myself. Also, try to shift anything little that you do to the left side like carrying bags, mousing at work (if you do that), etc...it is a little thing and will feel weird, but it will help in the long run.

Posted by: cmf85ro

First of all i'd just like to say thanks to all you guys for your advice!

Quote:

Originally posted by ponyboy
Mudge, you are far from worthless - your advice helps many people all the time including myself!

He is right you know...

Quote:

Originally posted by ponyboy
Also, try to shift anything little that you do to the left side like carrying bags, mousing at work (if you do that), etc...it is a little thing and will feel weird, but it will help in the long run.

I had already started doing that... I'm glad to hear that my assumption was right about this.

I haven't checked with a therapyst recently... I was thinking about that... Anyway, if my assumption is correct my spine bends to one side and also curves around it's axis (I guess this would explain the unequal abdominal region, that compensates for the unequal thoracal region... nice language huh?

)

Posted by: S.O.S

Quote:

Originally posted by cmf85ro
I haven't checked with a therapyst recently... I was thinking about that... Anyway, if my assumption is correct my spine bends to one side and also curves around it's axis (I guess this would explain the unequal abdominal region, that compensates for the unequal thoracal region... nice language huh?

)

Yeah my spine curves closer to the top. When you do go to your therapyst ask about a video tape of streches you should do. My back doctor had one made for me for my spesific problem, but it focuses alot on core training.

Posted by: DrChiro

excellent advice ponyboy!
there are 2 types of scoliosis 1)structural 2)functional, the degree to which you can correct these (without surgery) depends on which one you have.

structural is a true anatomical problem....like a mishapesd vertebrae

functional...is more along the lines of what ponyboy suggested....chronic muscle imbalance due to lifestyle, working out, etc.

core exercises help in both cases...but go see your chiropractor....if he/she cant help correct the problem, at least they can keep it from getting worse!

Posted by: Prince

Everyone has a small curvature in their spine, it is caused by one leg being shorter than the other, which we all have.

Basically, the longer leg forces the hip upward on that side and the spine has to compensate by forming a small "S" (this happens over several years while you're still growing as a child).

I believe the average person has a difference of 1/4" in leg length, it sounds like you have a larger than average difference in your leg length. A chiropractor cannot "fix" this unless they plan to raise that leg with a heal lift, and do adjustments at least weekly to help straighten the "S". I think it can be improved but never corrected 100%.

From my experience chiropractors do not even address the reason that poeple have this problem (at least not the ones I have encountered), they say things lke "Oh yeah we can fix you all up and straighten your back...blah...blah...blah. Just come in every week for an adjustment...blah...blah...".

Anyway, if you can find a qualified doctor, most likely a sport's physical therapist type doctor (not sure what they're called), they might actually do something that is effective to help correct/improve the curvature.

Posted by: JLB001

Hmm..If all sports physical therapist are the same...you won't get much from them. Mine only hooks me up to this little machine and only comes back to adjust the frequence thing. I'd take the Chiroprator any day or that crap.

Posted by: DrChiro

Hmm prince,,sounds like you went to a shitty chiropractor...please dont judge them all by that experience...some of us actually do know what we are doing.

Heel lifts are excellent if in fact you do have a true anatomically short leg (this would be included in the structural scoliosis)

more often you have a short leg due to SI joint (hip joint) fixation of some sort...or possibly a cervical misalignment causing what is known as a neurologic short leg...again, both of these would cause a functional scoliosis that could be reduced if not fixed by PROPER chiropractic treatment my chiropractor that actually deserves to be called DOCTOR.

I find it interesting (actually it kinda pisses me off)...that one bad experience with a chiropractor makes them all quacks and chiropractic sucks....but if you get a bad MD you either put up with it or go find another one....dont judge chiropractic just on one chiropractor...there are good ones and plenty of bad ones!

If you lift weights or play sports you NEED to be going to a chiropractor (not all the time...but at least have one that you go to just like you have a general practitioner to go to if you need them)....musculoskeletal problems are no different than any other disease process in the body...the earlier the problem is identified and dealt with, the better the prognosis!

Posted by: Prince

Quote:

Originally posted by DrChiro
I find it interesting (actually it kinda pisses me off)...that one bad experience with a chiropractor makes them all quacks and chiropractic sucks....but if you get a bad MD you either put up with it or go find another one....dont judge chiropractic just on one chiropractor...there are good ones and plenty of bad ones!

I don't think they are all quacks, I am sure there are some decent ones. And if that is your profession I did not mean to offend you.

As far as medical doctors, I see a lot of them as legal drug dealers. And I have had my share of bad doctors as well. I guess the difference is there are so many specialties with doctors, so you cannot really lump them all into one category like a chiropractor.

But for the most part the only time I go see a doctor is for a drug.

Posted by: DrChiro

I'm there with you man...most general doctors are drug pushers...they dont really have a choice though, it is the only tool they have...unless they are surgeons.

There are actually 100's of different techniques withing chiropractic as well as specialties within the profession....most people aren't aware of this (i wasnt when i started chiropractic school)...just gotta do a little research.

As far as everybody having a curve in their spine...most people do have a slight curve that allows for more space around the heart but it is not significant in most cases and shouldnt cause any problems nor progress.

Posted by: bandaidwoman

Dr. chiro is right, alot of our neurologists and sportsmedicine specialist work with chiropractors all the time. Unfortunately, there is a big animosity between the orthopedists and chiropractors for obvious reasons. But, in general, there are quite a few great chiropractors who really help out a MD and vice versa. There will always be the one or two bad chiros , bad MDs, bad Physical therapists, etc. that ruin it for the rest. Too bad.

Posted by: DrChiro

bandaidwoman is my new best friend!!!!

i notice you are from atlanta...i used to go to Life University till they had their "problems"....now I am here in Houston at TCC

(good move all in all...found a good school and a great girlfriend!)

Posted by: scolioboy696

I hope this post isnt too late... i only just registered but...
I have the same problem, mild scoliosis. Im kinda unsure after reading what everyone is trying to say so here it goes.

My left pec is much larger then my right pec. Well basically the outer pec is the same but im missing a huge chunk on the lower/inner right pec. The pec also has a curve making my right pec look smaller.
e.g. ( . ( . ) (diagram of the pec, haha bit off realistic but i hope u understand.)

Im wondering if this could be fixed by just doing inner pec workouts with dumbells for my right pec? ( and if so any suggestions for workouts...) or is it the rib sticking out on the left pec or something like that making it look much larger and the only way to help it is to go to a chiro?

Thanks a LOT in advance.

Posted by: Prince

Quote:

Originally posted by scolioboy696
Im wondering if this could be fixed by just doing inner pec workouts with dumbells for my right pec?

there is no way to isolate your "inner pec".

Posted by: DrChiro

actually some people are born without one or both pec minor muscles...really not rare at all...i came across 3 bodies with congenitally absent pec minor muscles and that is just in my VERY limited experience...this may be your problem.

also it could be an innervation problem (nerve problem)...for whatever reason

or it could be something else of course

or you could just be an anatomical freak from a mutated gene! (just kidding)

Posted by: Rifter

Scoliosis is a different animal. And thus far, this thread hasn’t explained the inherent natures of training for people diagnosed with scoliosis.

You have to understand the nature of scoliosis. It is NOT a fixed physical deformation of one's spine. Scoliosis DOES get worse - the quicker your skeletal growth, the worse the condition. The older you get, the worse the condition. The more you gym, the WORSE more pronounce the deformities - but more on this later.

To clarify the above, it is not rare to find people with curvatures of 20 degrees between ages 20 - 25 (just after puberty). The skeletal growth after puberty is minimal, so the curvature will not increase as drastically as during puberty, until the vertebrae start deteriorating due to old age.

However, if neglected, scoliosis does have the tendency to increase by 1 degree a year (and apparently 2 degrees for woman who have bared children).

Every spinal curvature WILL correct itself WITH ANOTHER curvature. eg. If you were diagnosed at age 16 with a 20 degree curvature in the thoracic region, then by the time you end puberty, you will have another curvature in the lumbar region.

Another point to consider is the vertebrae rotation as a product of scoliosis. This is normally more significant in the thoracic region for 2 reasons.
1. It DECREASES the capacity of the rib cage, putting undue stress on the heart and lungs &
2. Causes diverse deformities to every muscle attached to said rib cage (obviously, if the ribcage becomes twisted due to the vertebrae's rotation, then the muscle covering the rib cage will be either enlarged or elongated)

Again, if you have been diagnosed with scoliosis in the thoracic or lumbar region, you will eventually experience rotations in both regions.

Another point is the lack of lordosis, this is the loss of the natural curve in the spine. This brings about all sorts of posture related problems which are a bit beyond the scope of this post.

Deformities of scoliosis
One Enlarged shoulder.
This is due to the spinal column pushing the lateral muscle (which would be under stress) and actually lifting the shoulder blade forward. Giving the appearance that-
a. Your shoulder is more forward than the opposite side.
b. It appears as if you’re always slouching no matter how straight you stand.

This problem under training conditions
The most significant problem is unequal form ( the effected side's arm will likely seem longer than the other) which will cause extra ( apart from the inherent left/right hand problem) development of one side.

The above is directly related to the pec issue.
The only advice i can give is to keep the effected shoulder as back as possible when performing an movement. e.g. Squeezing the shoulder blades together for bench press will ensure both arms reach the bar at more or less the same distance. Or pulling your shoulders back when performing barbell curls. This will help (but never solve) the symmetry problem.

Uneven abdominals.
Now here i would stake my life that the alternate lumbar area (right abs dominant, left lower back dominant etc) will also seem enlarged. This is caused by both the correction curvature pushing the lumbar area out and the rotation of the spine in that area, all cooped with the body’s ability to correct asymmetry.
Gives the appearance of
a. Great Abs!!!....albeit on one side.
b. Your torso will seem a lot thicker due to the deformation in lower back muscles.

This problem under training conditions.
Again, inherently bad form will cause one side to be more developed than the other. Nothing can be done about it, so may as well make your abs as strong as possible to support the lower back and hopefully prevent any further increase in the lumbar curvature.

As for the lower back symptom, I would suggest trying SLDLs as a means to strengthen the lower back, or hyper extensions, weighted or not, up to you.

I cannot recommend dead lifts, i feel that if the spines lack of lordosis (which will definitely occur with all the rotation and correction) removes the possibility of doing dead lifts free from injury ( the spine needs to be supported by a natural curvature to place sufficient strain on the lower back muscles instead of the lumbar vertebrae while doing dead lifts, if you lack lordosis, perfuming dead lifts is not only difficult but very dangerous - think instant fibrocitis).

If you do manage to hurt yourself on SLDL, or notice deformities developing, then opt for the hyper extension root.

One hip lower than the other.
This may not seem extremely visible, but I promise....if the lumbar region is affected, they are as well. This will also give the appearance of having one leg shorter than the other (common symptom of this is that when you walk, the shorter leg automatically hooks inside your stride, you feel as if you are walking on the outer most side of your foot). This is not really significant since limbs are normally free from deformities.

At the end of the day, training under scoliosis symptoms such as these (to be more direct, if your curvature is 20+ degrees, you will experience a majority of these symptoms) is a risk you yourself have to weigh.

Risk 1, continue with the worsted case 1 degree increase per year and be in a crippled state for your old age (not joking here, it is possibility)

Or

Risk 2, try strengthen the muscles now enough to support you through to old age.
Sure you might suffer a bit of deformities and never really look as good as you should, but you decrease the risk of heart and lung disease associated with serious (35 +) scoliosis.

You might think 20 - 30 degrees is mild, but take a look at the x-rays used to measure the curvature and think how the muscles will form around the curved spine. It will paint a scary picture.

My objective here is to help people with this condition to have a realistic perspective of scoliosis and training under scoliosis.

In closing, orthopedic surgeons don’t want to touch scoliosis until its absolutely chronic (45+), and you will obtain very little advice or help in that direction. Chiropractors are a better choice, they are actually willing to help without cutting you open and screwing around, plus most have a interest in bodybuilding.
It is in your own interest to check the curvature degree every few years, your efforts might prove detrimental if you are not following basic body building principles.

edit: Been reading more about this condition, Some recent studies show a few people that have managed to correct their scoliosis to some degree though proper posture management (see alexander technique) aswell as other exercises. I cant find any other information or details about this.

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