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cutting cycle Critique


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Posted by: Just a guy

alrite... i have got rid of my Bulking drugs... and am goin to start over with a cutting cycle... Tell me what u think...

1-12 Test prop ED 100mg's
1-12 Tren 75mg's ED
1-10 Equipoise twice a week 500mg's
1-8 Deca (for joints) 200mg's a week
1-12 Winstrol 50mg ED


My diet is looking like the Atkins thing... i am taking in NO carbs except maybe 20Gram though the whole day do too protein.

15-30 minutes cardio 1st thing in the morning before i even eat anything.. ED of the week

What else should i do... im tryin to drop ALOT of fat... I cant take Clen.. or t3.. because im already on such drugs too keep me normal (thyroid problems).. i do have some Hydroxycut... Ehpedra free... supposed to be decent... How far should i slack my calories? im thinking they will be at the most 2,500 a day.... im not even putting milk in my protein shakes no more...

So is it true that on the Atkins thing... u can eat AS much fat and protein as u like while still losing weight? Like i could eat hot wings EVERY day and still be losing a ton of weight? just dont sound rite... any other pointers would be great.


Posted by: Just a guy

i'll also be eating my 450 G's of protein


Posted by: Power Rabbit

the prob with atkins is that its really designed for a really fat lazy person...not your average body builder ....your gonna want some carbs in there for lifting....only time you sould completely cut carbs is pre show(or when your gonna be in front of alot of people naked)....


Posted by: Just a guy

uhh,,, now im confused... what am i supposed to do... I have heard from everyone that Little to no carbs will build Lean muscle and cut ALOT of fat


Posted by: Power Rabbit

its just my opinion......but to build muscle you do want carbs....


Posted by: Just a guy

but im fat and muscle is Hiding behind these layers of fat


Posted by: Just a guy

bump


Posted by: 1/2MAN50AMAZING

IMO if your doing a cycle involving tren and winstrol it doesnt matter what you really eat as long as you notting eating absurd amounts of caleries like 7000 a day.... i have you considerd the anabolic diet? its similar to akins accept that its a high fas low carbs diet (not as low as atkins) and people who have tried have had tremendous results! im talkin naturals not juicers. I think its like 65% fat 35% carbs im not sure. BUT theres a cacth the fats you are eating are non saturated fats... meaing ecssential fatty acids EFA shit like flax seed oil. and on the weekend you carb up...


Posted by: Just a guy

so how many calories is too low??? there's no way i can lose muscle while cutting just because of the drugs right? cuz im thinkin about tryin to stay under 2500 calories... dunno if thats 2 low


Posted by: 1/2MAN50AMAZING

well.... no usally shit is based on 2000 caleries a day so i wouldnt drop below this IMO i never have but ask those who have to make sure.


Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally posted by Just a guy
there's no way i can lose muscle while cutting just because of the drugs right?
Who gave you that idea? The shyt is not magic bro. When I went on a cutting diet I went as low as 2300 calories and hell yes I lose weight, muscle included. If you want to cut you need to slowly scale back calories, and watch your macro breakdown, you can't just yank 2000 calories and not expect to lose muscle.

Nobody here but you can answer what is too low. Pull 500-1000 calories a day for 1-2 pounds weight loss a week, not counting water.


Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally posted by Just a guy
I have heard from everyone that Little to no carbs will build Lean muscle and cut ALOT of fat
There is Atkins, or CKD, etc - but it will be harder to maintain muscle if you dont do it right. I would not do straight Atkins unless you are willing to lose some muscle.


Posted by: BUSTINOUT

Let us know how your hair holds up after 12 weeks of test/tren/winny. lol

As for deca for joints, I saw benefits from as little as 100mg/wk. I would start there first. The goal is to get the best results with as little drugs as possible. Personally, I think the winny is unnecessary.


Posted by: Just a guy

ok... well what happens if i keep my calories where they were... about 4k but it was nothing but fat and protein and maybe 40 Grams of carbs throughout the WHOLE day... would i still lose fat??


Posted by: Just a guy

what do u suggest mudge


Posted by: Just a guy

today i Ate 2 chicken breasts.. 2 big cheeseburger paddies and some vegi's along with 1,200calories worth of whey protein (300Grams)..... does that sound like enough calories to u?? I really dont know what the exact calories are in the meats... i reallly... really dont want to lose any muscle... i would like to keep what i have and maybe more... but shed all of that unwanted fat...

macro breakdown? does that have to do with food? i cant quite remember...

i thought it was you that told me u could still gain muscle on a calorie deficit Diet... i could be mistaken... but pretty sure i heard that from u


Posted by: Mudge

It will say on any packaging what the calories are, it sounds like 2 meals worth. Macro-nutrients, yes thats food.

I would strongly suggest getting a diet book, because it sounds like you dont know what you are doing except eating what you feel like eating.

If you are lucky, you can retain muscle on a caloric deficit, this is called cutting. Thats what the gear is there for, but you cant just cut calories in half (as an example) and expect to retain it all. You need to take baby steps, and you have to know how your body responds to things, this takes experience as well as some book knowlege. If it were so simple as cutting calories wham bam thank you mam and you keep all your muscle, then people who compete wouldn't lose so much thier first time or two on stage.


Posted by: Just a guy

gotcha... i guess i will just try to eat no carbs in alot of Cals off fat's and meats.... and hopefully the drugs will help... because i guess im in over my head... and eating what i feel like eating is horribly wrong... i have to keep my self from Eating any pasta's breads or ANYTHING with carbs... the only carb intake i get is from my protein shakes which is like 2g's a scoop which is 24g's in the whole day... so thats not a good plan? i've been tryin to ask yall that but yall keep telling me im going to lose muscle.... Do u have to have alot of carbs to build muscle?? then what is the protein for? christ... i must be gettin the wrong information... i thought i could build and lose fat that way.... atleast that is what i gather


Posted by: Mudge

Without some carbohydrates most people will lose some muscle, with moderate quality carbs you should be able to keep a good portion of it, but again caloric totals need to be scaled not just chopped.

Somewhere between 65-100g carbs is probably good enough for glycogen stores, depending on what you do for a living etc

Caloric excess plus high carbs helps create an environment friendly to muscle building. Dude if dieting were so easy as just getting shredded and building muscle at the same time then nobody would have bulking and cutting diets at all, we would all put on 25 pounds of muscle and lose 5% of our bodyfat at the same time.

The messed up thing about all of this is that you are a slave to your diet if you want to reach your goals, this is the area to study, not so much steroids because with basic cycles comes only a need for basic knowlege, its diet that you have to follow the entire day for at least 6.5/7 days of the week, plus you have to know how to manipulate your diet to get your body where you want it to go. This means know how + observation and study of yourself, not what some dude on the internet is doing with his own diet.

Going from a 4000 calorie a day diet down to 2500 is too fast. I would not plan on losing more than 1-2.5 pounds a week unless its OK to lose beef with it.


Posted by: Mudge

I dont have genetics for being ripped without serious work (I would not really say I've been "ripped" in my life). For such a person as myself, you eventually reach a point where you say this sucks, and you have to start studying diet. This is where I'd say 95% of gym goers fail, either trying to gain or lose, this is your battle.

Fuck the gear, you know the basics, go read diet stuff.


Posted by: crackerjack414

first off all every one has there own way of dieting but ill say carbs are manditory it would be easier on u and your body to give your self a month to eas into dieting just clean up your diet and graduely start lowering your carb intake and doing a few days of cardio and keep tweeking it till u lose about 2 pounds a week. I like a carb load once a week with clean carbs controlled but there are several ways to diet depening if u do cardio or not. But my point is that carbs are essential when dieting

also i dont like your cycle no need for prop imo u can use eth and switch to prop later when a show comes close and id add an anti e through out


Posted by: Just a guy

ahhh christ... for real fellas i went from 233 to 225 in one day.. could be water weight deminishing... but shit... i look alot more ripped today... just dont want to lose the muscle!... i will try to keep about 50g's of carbs in me ... well 50-70 grams... if thats ok?

I like injecting my self everyday... i got so tired of test cyp... needed something more maintainance...


Posted by: Just a guy

what if i do a ckd diet? like mon through Fri i eat hardly NO carbs... and then on the weekend... i carb it up... what u think? there's more to it i know... just seeing what yall thing... thanks


Posted by: unfrzcvman

As far as the no carb thing goes, the fact that you can eat as much meat and veggies as you want and not gain weight creates a bit of a misconception. When you only eat meat, fat and veggies, your body goes into a type of starvation mode. Your hunger is cut and you don't eat as much. The folks who lose tons of weight on Atkins are actually eating fewer calories then their high carb counterparts (despite appearing to eat high calorie foods). These folks are people who have real bad insulin problems and the diet stabilizes their blood sugar for the first time in their lives. On Atkins, you simply aren't as hungry throughout the day.

That said, if you force yourself to eat a set amount of calories (e.g., through protein supplementation, etc.), you'll keep the weight (except for the water weight loss). Remember, 1 gram of glycogen holds about 4 grams of water so you'll lose a lot as you deplete your glycogen stores. I don't know so much about the impact of gear on this, but I suggest you just taper your carbs in the evening and reduce calories a sensible amount. Remember, there is no quick fix...


Posted by: Mudge

CKD works great for alot of people, its very low carbs through the week and then a carbup, its not atkins + carbup. We are talking 20-30g carbs for the whole day.


Posted by: 1/2MAN50AMAZING

you guys are giving good advice! this will also help when i ready. except im not trying to cut so much right now im gonna try the anabolic diet this diet was talk about by dan duciane and other top BBS high fat low carb diet. good for bulking AND losing body fat


Posted by: Mudge

Bodyopus has various diets in there.


Posted by: 1/2MAN50AMAZING

who's bodyopus?


Posted by: Just a guy

so u think ckd would be good for my situation? i only eat 24 G's of carbs a day (because of my protein)


Posted by: Just a guy

oh yeh... i havent got fina cough yet?? does that meen my shit fake?


Posted by: Just a guy

im usiong Ultra G and South Lab

Tried to shorten it down... didnt want to give full name ya know


Posted by: 1/2MAN50AMAZING

24 carbs a day is good now fina on the other hand i dont know to much about ive heard people getting the "cough" after the first week of use and then it goes away you might want to ask mudge i think it vaires from maker to maker.


Posted by: Mudge

24g carbs is about dead minimum for keeping any glycogen in the body. For people doing longer workouts you need more, no ifs about it.

Bodyopus is a Dan Duchaine book.

I dont get fina cough, fina breath I get in about 10 seconds though with anything around the 100mg area.


Posted by: 1/2MAN50AMAZING

you think he should amp it up to 40 carbs a day?


Posted by: Just a guy

so what u think?? u think i will lose muscle on this plan.... ur the one with all the books... rite now icant afford them...


Posted by: Mudge

Personal choice, 40g carbs is nothing. 2 servings of oatmeal with no sugar is 54g carbs right there. I would have some carbs before a workout and some after. I think he is trying to do things too quickly, and I dont like yo yo diets, it doesn't work for my genetics.

I've already said what I think many times, then you just ask the same questions. Scale back slowly is how I prefer to do it, otherwise I lose body mass of every kind. I can maintain most of the meat but not all of it. You pull carbs and muscle is going to go away, by water and by meat itself.

50-75g carbs is about the minimum I would use if I actually planned on keeping what I have.


Posted by: Just a guy

so whats this about cardio on a empty stomach...


Posted by: Mudge

It is there because you have no food in the body, so you prey that bodyfat is burned as fuel instead of glycogen.

Youre asking gearheads about diet and many of the diet smart people dont come in here bro, you are in the wrong forum.


Posted by: Just a guy

lol well i guess im not going to be able to burn Any fat... for christ sake.... and the only reason i ask the same questions is because UR skinny (not like skinny skinny) im fat... Just hoping u would know a little info on what i should do if im already Big and strong enough just wanted to lose about 15-20lbs of fat


Posted by: Just a guy

i've already been in diet... there not on roids my friend... i get alot of lame as threads that dont meen shit


Posted by: 1/2MAN50AMAZING

just a guy how much do you wiegh anyway? and what is you hieght?


Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally posted by Just a guy
and the only reason i ask the same questions is because UR skinny (not like skinny skinny) im fat...
I consider myself "fat" more than skinny, I'm at least 15% bodyfat bro, I dont really care to know though. As long as I keep my gut under 40" I am ok with it, because its the only way I can put on serious weight. Eating all my carb calories in rice is very difficult because the water when you cook the shyt bloats it up, filling me up too easily. Same with oatmeal, full of water.

Diet is a science man and when you have a stubborn body that is where you have to spend all your time. I carry a naturally high bodyfat percentage, I have since I was probably 12 years old or so.


Posted by: Just a guy

im 230 and 5'10


Posted by: Just a guy

i guess im gonna keep eatin my carbs... and just hope that the Fina trims me up a little.... Im very disappointed now... because all i want to do is just lose some weight... and i guess it will never happen.... im probably 30% body fat... looks like im gonna be a fat piece of shit for the rest of my life.


Posted by: Mudge

Bro, dont yo yo. Keep it simple, and spend some time learning diet stuff.

How many carbs do you get now and what are the sources? Remove SOME carbs, dont completely yank them, or go from 600g carbs down to 50 so quickly. Its too much too soon.

If you want to slam down the carbs to the floor, I would suggest 100-200g daily of quality carbs spread through at least your first 4 meals, you wont be on a serious cutting diet unless you are greatly above that number now, but you will definitely trim up and you should be able to retain nearly everything, but again there are so many individual things and I have not seen your diet where it is now so generic recommendations can't really be made with any kind of guarantee as to what it will do to you.

You could pretty generically state, weight is going to come from activity and total calories per day, and your body makeup is going to come from the makeup of your diet. So to lose some weight you cut 500-1000 calories from your daily diet, that is low enough that you can still retain your beef. As to where you pull calories from is where it will also further ensure that you retain the quality body mass.


Posted by: Just a guy

alrite... so i will keep my diet the same except not Eat nearly as much... get the 100-200 grams of Carbs and throw out the weightgainer... that would probably drop about 1000calories... i cant decide if I should start putting milk back in my protein shakes.... and hydroxycut is a good idea rite?? or should i also throw that out 2


Posted by: Just a guy

errr i was gettin about 100-200 carbs a day from just Weight gainer... gettin 24 from the shakes... 60 Grams from the milk in the protein shakes... and then pasta's or what not that i ate through the day... so yeh i was gettin around 400-500g's of carbs a day


Posted by: Mudge

I dont use hydroxybunk, nor do I use weight gainer but hell yeah that shyt will bloat you up that stuff is loaded with sugar.

I use milk but on a cutting diet I dont, its sugar. For starters though simply removing SOME from your diet will be a big help.


Posted by: Just a guy

what the milk? so 2 with milk 2 without?


Posted by: Just a guy

without the weight gainer.... which was 750 calories through the day and 2 shakes without milk which was 360 and less carbs.... errrr i think im cuttin 2 many calories still.... thats prolly a good 1500 through the day that i have cut since my bulker...


Posted by: Just a guy

if i keep drinkin the milk in my shakes it would be close to 1,000 less than usual


Posted by: Mudge

On a clean vs dirty diet, I notice milks effects on my body right away, but keep it simple for now.

Good luck


Posted by: Just a guy

i dont understand what u meen by keeping it simple... all of this shit is far from simple... milk or no milk... i guess i can replace the milk calories with something else


Posted by: Power Rabbit

heh when im cutting keeping it simple is the best i can do....to make sure i get exactly my macros i pretty much eat the same meals 8 times a day:-/ ....too lazy to look up values of other food..i get a choice of 10 egg whites and 1/2 a cup of dry oats.....1 and a half cup of dry oats 2 scoops of whey and milk.....or chicken and tuna with 3 cups of lettuce........


Posted by: Mudge

Cutting 500-1000 calories is simple bro, we aren't even touching the surface of diet know how, anyone can count calories. I dont consider myself terribly diet educated at all, I know some basics and thats it, I think diet is pretty complex business when you get to the nitty gritty.

Put your meals on 3x5" cards and you dont have to eat the same things all the time, that way you can look to a certain card and already have the macro breakdown and calorie totals there etc etc, but I basically eat the same stuff. Eating is just a function, its not something I put much thought into once its layed out for me.


Posted by: KC6

[quote]Originally posted by Just a guy
alrite... i have got rid of my Bulking drugs... and am goin to start over with a cutting cycle... Tell me what u think...

1-12 Test prop ED 100mg's
1-12 Tren 75mg's ED
1-10 Equipoise twice a week 500mg's
1-8 Deca (for joints) 200mg's a week
1-12 Winstrol 50mg ED


,,,
i would take the equipoise out, and have deca at 400mg, primo if i wanted less water, but thats just my opinion.


Posted by: Just a guy

deca is just for joints... i hate deca... deca makes u bloat.. EQ is great for vascularity


Posted by: Mudge

Deca is better for high calorie diets, I dont get much from it anyway.


Posted by: QuestionGuy

just a guy....You like saying DRUGS dont you ?


Posted by: BUSTINOUT

Quote:
Originally posted by Mudge
Deca is better for high calorie diets, I dont get much from it anyway.
Amen


Posted by: DEEPSEA

FINA & DECA.. ..NO THANKS!
U might NOT be Capt. Limpy w/ all that TEST BUT...prolac gyno is NO fun..nor are the sides of Bromo..
Yank the DECA..IMO


Posted by: Just a guy

100mg's of DECA AINT SHIT


Posted by: Just a guy

fine... i'll drop the deca and be in pain all the time because of the winny... NO... i like my deca... its only for my joints


Posted by: Just a guy

i think i hit maintenance... because im stuck at 222lbs... so im gonna start taking the skin off my chicken... i got a SLOW.. i meen SLOW ass metabolisim...i can gain weight but its hard as hell to lose any... now im at like 2200-2500 calories a day... and 30 carbs.. with 400g's of protein... aaaarg... everyone pray that some fat melts.


Posted by: Mudge

If you have been stuck for a week you are at or close to maintenance.


Posted by: QuestionGuy

i feel you with that one GUY



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