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Originally posted by Deeznuts Dude, at your age your body's producing enough testosterone and recovering at a fast enough rate that it would be the equivalent of a 40 year old taking an AWESOME supplement. Why take PH's? A good diet and hard work are all you need right now I think. You haven't begun to reach your natural potential.
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Originally posted by titans1854 i'm looking to get big for my senior season of football too. why can't i just take it for like 6 months? or maybe just a short period of time to gain weight and raise bench a little? |
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Originally posted by bandaidwoman Camarosuper and everyone else here is right. The 21 year old isn't some legallity. The maximum testosterone production peaks between 19 and 21. For some men, the growth plates don't fuse until 25. You may be happy at your height but I've seen guys grow 3-4 inches between the age of 18 and 23. And if height isn't of concern, then the other issues such as the higher rate of conversion to estrogen of the prohormones seems to be more problematic in teenagers (since your conversion enzymes are called "upregulated" in amount due to the natural surge of testosterone that is higher). Acne will be a bigger issue as others have mentioned. I've seen cases of very early prostate enlargement in guys in their twenties (needing a catherization just to pee) when they did use gear in their teenage years (remember, it is testosterone that enlarges the prostate.)....it takes years for the average Joe but it may be accellerated especially in teengagers who are chugging out a huge, huge dose of testosterone and supplementing on top of it. Also, theoretical( but not clinically studied ) increased risk of testicular cancer....the only cancer that reaches its peak between the age of 18 and 25. (It's a young man's cancer). Your leydig, sertoli cells, neurohormonal axis etc. and all the cells residing in your testicles are still maturing until the age of 20 or so and such a outside source of extra testosterone may trigger the cells to "take off" so to speak. There are only case studies of its association with very early steroid use but not a proven cause and effect yet. However, you realize the cure for testicular cancer is castration....... By the way, there have been no association between anabolic steroids and testicular cancer in those who have reached full sexual maturity ie: greater than 23 years of age. |
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Originally posted by bandaidwoman Camarosuper and everyone else here is right. The 21 year old isn't some legallity. The maximum testosterone production peaks between 19 and 21. For some men, the growth plates don't fuse until 25. You may be happy at your height but I've seen guys grow 3-4 inches between the age of 18 and 23. And if height isn't of concern, then the other issues such as the higher rate of conversion to estrogen of the prohormones seems to be more problematic in teenagers (since your conversion enzymes are called "upregulated" in amount due to the natural surge of testosterone that is higher). Acne will be a bigger issue as others have mentioned. I've seen cases of very early prostate enlargement in guys in their twenties (needing a catherization just to pee) when they did use gear in their teenage years (remember, it is testosterone that enlarges the prostate.)....it takes years for the average Joe but it may be accellerated especially in teengagers who are chugging out a huge, huge dose of testosterone and supplementing on top of it. Also, theoretical( but not clinically studied ) increased risk of testicular cancer....the only cancer that reaches its peak between the age of 18 and 25. (It's a young man's cancer). Your leydig, sertoli cells, neurohormonal axis etc. and all the cells residing in your testicles are still maturing until the age of 20 or so and such a outside source of extra testosterone may trigger the cells to "take off" so to speak. There are only case studies of its association with very early steroid use but not a proven cause and effect yet. However, you realize the cure for testicular cancer is castration....... By the way, there have been no association between anabolic steroids and testicular cancer in those who have reached full sexual maturity ie: greater than 23 years of age. |
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Originally posted by IronSlingah I understand that you destroy your natural test production if you take gear for months on end but its hard to believe that these serious side effects (IE-testicular cancer/ Stunted Growth Prostate inlargement) can happen after a 3 week cycle on something like M1T. |
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Originally posted by IronSlingah I understand that you destroy your natural test production if you take gear for months on end but its hard to believe that these serious side effects (IE-testicular cancer/ Stunted Growth Prostate inlargement) can happen after a 3 week cycle on something like M1T. |
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Originally posted by dg806 I can get you a link to where a guy did bloodwork on a M-1T cycle. He worked in a lab and had access to test. His test totally shut down after 3 weeks!! ZILCH, NADA! If you want to read it let me know. |
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Originally posted by dg806 I can get you a link to where a guy did bloodwork on a M-1T cycle. He worked in a lab and had access to test. His test totally shut down after 3 weeks!! ZILCH, NADA! If you want to read it let me know. |
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Originally posted by JerseyDevil DG, you're referring to Supersoldier's thread correct? He had shutdown after only 3 days, not weeks!!! Here were the labs for testosterone. For those who don't know, a male is considered to be hypogonadal at about 260 ng/dl and below. Day 1: 436.77 ng/dl Day 3: 39.10 ng/dl Day 5: 24.49 ng/dl |
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Originally posted by Prince that almost seems impossible to go from 436ng/dl to 39ng/dl in 3 days. |
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Originally posted by JerseyDevil DG, you're referring to Supersoldier's thread correct? He had shutdown after only 3 days, not weeks!!! Here were the labs for testosterone. For those who don't know, a male is considered to be hypogonadal at about 260 ng/dl and below. Day 1: 436.77 ng/dl Day 3: 39.10 ng/dl Day 5: 24.49 ng/dl |
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Originally posted by billyzane1 I was gonna pct with 6oxo and milk thistle of course. |
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Originally posted by IronSlingah How can they record just natural test-production? Wuddent they have to take the whole sample with the natural and M1T test in it? |
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Originally posted by bandaidwoman Iron slingah is right. These numbers look like numbers after finishing a cycle rather than during. (In which case, such drastic decrease in 3 days is not unusual) Not sure how he differentiated natural endogenous testosterone from M-1T conversion to testosterone during a cycle unless he also looked at the ratio of coresponding estrogen production and some of the temporary changes associated with bound vs. free testosterone levels and has a formula for calculation that I am unware of. Remember, only 2% of circulating testosterone is unbound and biologically active; the rest is bound to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) or albumin. Standard testosterone level testing looks at the total testosterone = bound and unbound testosterone. |
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Originally posted by JerseyDevil I think I know the answer to this. 1-testosterone and the methylated version (M1T) do not convert to testosterone, nor do they aromatize to estrogen. 1-testosterone (17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one) is a steroid that is closely related to testosterone chemically. It has a double bond at the 1 position, testosterone has a double bond at the 4 position. Since this is the case, I don't believe it would show in total testosterone. |
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Originally posted by maze To the first post... There are lots of supps that you can take right now, like creatine, l-glutamine, protein powders, etc. I made the mistake of using Andro @ 22 and got some fat in my pecs, i removed that 3 years later. Its not worth it ... man, wait until you are 25 to use PHs or ProSteroids ... I have trained 17-23 year olds with only creatine and high protein diet and they get similar results as a 28-30yr PH user. |
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Originally posted by firestorm Excellent reading. Very informative people. I'm wondering why Bandaidwoman isn't a MODERATOR on here yet!!! Prince look into that. |
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Originally posted by firestorm Excellent reading. Very informative people. I'm wondering why Bandaidwoman isn't a MODERATOR on here yet!!! Prince look into that. |
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Originally posted by coderr not to change subjects or sups but is 6-oxo strong enough for s1+? |
| [i][b]only 2% of circulating testosterone is unbound and biologically active; the rest is bound to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) |
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