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Originally Posted by maniclion
Not even in your hand? Then every man whoever was and ever will be are condemned to Hell Fire Damnation.
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Originally Posted by maniclion
Not even in your hand? Then every man whoever was and ever will be are condemned to Hell Fire Damnation.
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Originally Posted by irontime
Not true, I completely understand the obvious, but the obvious isn't always the answer. I am trying to get you to use a wider perspective. Not everything is black and white. Don't just take everything for face value, question everything. You'll get a lot smarter that way.
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Originally Posted by god hand
Dick wasnt made to go in ass or mouth. It was made to go in pussy. I not saying it should go only in pussy, but thats clearly what it was made for. NOW WHO IN THA FUCK IS GOING TO DENY THIS!
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
yes though are you forgetting in the animal kingdom animals kill members of their own species for things other than food or survival? male cats kill babies of other males in order to get the females to go into estres faster. something that would be considered murder in any human society. my point is we cannot make a direct corelation between what is acceptable in the animal kingdom and what is acceptable in society. the fact is we are more developed than animals because God created us that way. and with this development he gave us powers of reasoning not bestowed to the animal kingdom. with these powers came added responsibilites. not everyone chooses to follow. i truthfully cannot believe people actually use this arguement to try and rationalize their behaivior. i do however take comfort in the stats derived from this poll
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Originally Posted by John H.
Hi Brogers,
Not so at all. Yes, in order to procreate, a Man will be facing a Women while fucking her usually although he could do it from behind if he is big enough and wanted to fuck her from standing behind her and could put his cock into her vagina without any problem because he is big enough to do that from behind as a variation for example. It is NOT "abnormal" and it is not "wrong". It IS a variation like anything else in life. So too is BiSexuality and Homosexuality a natural and right variation of life. Take Care, John H. |
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Originally Posted by John H.
god hand,
THINK about this: the HAND is conveniently made by Nature to wrap around the cock of a MAN for a damn good reason. And any Man that does not wrap his hand around cock IS DENYING himself. And others. John H. |
that the human hand was made only to wrap it around tha dick? Not this shit has just got damn stupid!
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Originally Posted by god hand
It dont matter how u get tha dick in tha pussy as long as u get it in there
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Originally Posted by god hand
Are u saying
that the human hand was made only to wrap it around tha dick? Not this shit has just got damn stupid! |
And the hand is conveniently meant to fit around cock... In fact you might think of it as "one hand helping 'another'" |
Originally Posted by John H.
god hand,
Do you just use people or do you honestly care about those you are with? John H. |
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Originally Posted by John H.
Have you ever wrapped your hand around your cock? Or had another Guy do it for you? It would probably be the first time in your life when you actually were truly happy! John H. |
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Originally Posted by John H.
Bio:
You need to THINK more and do that OBJECTIVELY and consider ALL information from ALL sources ALL the time. Everything that is or happens in life is "covered" in your bible. And your Bible was written by MEN. John H. |
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
sure was. they are called prophets you might look into them they are kind of important in the whole grand scheme of things.
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Originally Posted by John H.
Bio:
All it is IS a SCAM - a "grand scheme" SCAM - just like politics. John H. |
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
tell that to Peter James and John.
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Originally Posted by ForemanRules
How can you tell a fictional character anything?
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
sure was. they are called prophets you might look into them they are kind of important in the whole grand scheme of things.
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Originally Posted by lnvanry
R there a lot of gay people at your gym?
It doesn't bother me...I've been to a friends gym on the northside of Chicago (wrigleyville) and it was flaming...Men blatenly staring staring at you. I felt a little out of place. |
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Originally Posted by John H.
Hi Bio,
I am well aware of the "prophets". Each "religion" has theirs. Religion IS MAN MADE - remember that. And I think you hit it on the head - "...scheme of things." - many religions are nothing more than a "scheme". TRUTHFULLY - and ACCURATELY - speaking that is! Do YOU KNOW WHO they were?! REALLY?! Do you KNOW them personally? That is did you walk with them in their lives? NO ONE KNOWS anyone UNLESS they were WITH them in their lives and EXPERIENCED knowing those people and even then - as with today - people CAN NEVER really KNOW others! Your religion is something you CHOOSE to believe in because it "fits" your "scheme" that is what you "feel" is "right" - but that does NOT make it so - it is just something that "seems right" - TO YOU! That's why there are THOUSANDS of religions EACH with their own VARIATIONS and BELIEFS! Take Care, John H. |
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
your post is full of incorrect logic john. arent you always talking about getting to KNOW someone TRUTHFULLY? and your assuming all prophets are no longer living, what about if there were living ones? have you ever thought about that? living ones that we can get to know personally. then you can decide for yourself from personal experience. ill say it again corrupt religions begin when man changes God to meet individual beliefs, a true faith changes mans beliefs to meet the real truths that are God.
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Originally Posted by ForemanRules
I am a living prophet
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
your post is full of incorrect logic john. arent you always talking about getting to KNOW someone TRUTHFULLY? and your assuming all prophets are no longer living, what about if there were living ones? have you ever thought about that? living ones that we can get to know personally. then you can decide for yourself from personal experience. ill say it again corrupt religions begin when man changes God to meet individual beliefs, a true faith changes mans beliefs to meet the real truths that are God.
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Originally Posted by John H.
Get to KNOW a Man. Get to BE friends with each other - to the point that you both want to have Sex with each other. Then, let him wrap his hand around your cock for you. And WORK on it to the point where you think you will COMPLETELY LOSE your mind if you do not get relief - then, have him STOP - WITHOUT letting you blow off. Then, let him start playing with your body (entirely), massaging every inch - HONESTLY, and LOVINGLY. Then, let him play with your balls. And your cock. Start, and then stop BEFORE blowing off. MAKE IT LAST for as long as you can hold back - THEN, let your BALLS BOIL OVER and BLOW OFF. Let him suck you off TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY.
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Originally Posted by Platinum
Dude, women are on this planet for a reason...
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Originally Posted by Platinum
Dude, women are on this planet for a reason...
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Originally Posted by John H.
Hi Bio,
I say the following WITH TOTAL RESPECT AND HONOR AND DIGNITY to you - and as a way for you to be MUCH HAPPIER and see things for REAL: Get to KNOW a Man. Get to BE friends with each other - to the point that you both want to have Sex with each other. Then, let him wrap his hand around your cock for you. And WORK on it to the point where you think you will COMPLETELY LOSE your mind if you do not get relief - then, have him STOP - WITHOUT letting you blow off. Then, let him start playing with your body (entirely), massaging every inch - HONESTLY, and LOVINGLY. Then, let him play with your balls. And your cock. Start, and then stop BEFORE blowing off. MAKE IT LAST for as long as you can hold back - THEN, let your BALLS BOIL OVER and BLOW OFF. Let him suck you off TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY. You will then KNOW about life and living and TRUE HAPPINESS. And have a smile on your face and in your heart and soul - because you were with another Human Being WHO HONESTLY CARES ABOUT YOU - and YOU HIM. IF you would rather it be with a Female, that is fine too. Either Gender WILL WORK for you IF YOU HAVE OR CAN DEVELOP AN OPEN MIND - and be objective - AND HONEST. PEOPLE - Male and/or Female CAN LOVE others REGARDLESS OF Gender and marital status - marriage IS MAN-MADE. Remember that. Marriage IS NEVER "a requirement", BEING HONEST! BE HAPPY. BELIEVE ME, YOU WILL BE!!!! Right now, it seems to me you are really starving yourself and what YOU - the total YOU - NEEDS! Take Care, John H. |
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
how is this a response in anyway to what i wrote? you just ignored what i wrote to you. i assumed as much. its your M.O. for subjects you cant answer. oh well. the truth is i dont have any problem with what you wrote as long as its a female who im married to. the fact is john you keep saying over and over marriage is man made and yet you cant back it up. you have as yet to show one society that pre-dated marriage. the truth is honestly every society has had a marriage ceremony of some sort. that is a pretty telling sign of something john, im just sorry your too stubborn to grasp the concept here.
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Originally Posted by ForemanRules
You really are in love with him
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
you would know
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Originally Posted by BigDyl
Wow, ban this ignorant mother fucker immediately!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by ForemanRules
Don't ban him..............just help him find Jesus.
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
how is this a response in anyway to what i wrote? you just ignored what i wrote to you. i assumed as much. its your M.O. for subjects you cant answer. oh well. the truth is i dont have any problem with what you wrote as long as its a female who im married to. the fact is john you keep saying over and over marriage is man made and yet you cant back it up. you have as yet to show one society that pre-dated marriage. the truth is honestly every society has had a marriage ceremony of some sort. that is a pretty telling sign of something john, im just sorry your too stubborn to grasp the concept here.
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Originally Posted by ForemanRules
You two must have forgot to send me an invitation to your blessed event.
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Originally Posted by John H.
Hi Bio,
"Stubborn"? Me? Look at yourself in the mirror. Marriage IS Man-made and always has been. Read some history on the subject. Fairy tales have existed in all "societies" as well.... READ AND LEARN from history. I stand COMPLETELY by what I have said. Because IT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND ACCURATE! Take Care, John H. |
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
care to answer any of my multiple questions john? how about naming a society or civilizatin without a marriage ceremony? prove marriage predates any society and ill accept your point of view
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
and im saying marriage has been around as long has man has. from the begining of man and woman marriage was instituted. if your point is correct and man predates marriage and therefore created it themselves then you would be able to show that by showing when marriage was first instituted. i argue you will not be able to due this. i say you will be unable to show historically that man predates marriage and has made up marriage. Show me john. again prove your point give examples. dont hide behind the research yourself and you will see BS. i know as much as if not more history than you do and most certainly about the topic of marriage. so maybe you should do some reasearch OBJECTIVELY and with an OPEN MIND instead of your normal posts of making stuff up that you think proves your point. so once again john show me where man predates marriage and ill believe your point of view.
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
another post like the rest john, without substance. now you want me to prove marriage was not an invention of man? ok. never in the history of the world has there been a society or civiization that did not have some ort of marriage ceremony. therefore wherever man was found to be congregating some sort of marriage covenant was found. therefore man and marriage have always gone together from the begining of man. it is not man-made but instituted of God. thats the honest truth looking at all of the facts. now if you want to come up with a re-post of your previous response (as that is all you are capable of) feel free. those reading this will quickly determine your dodgeing the facts and issues here.
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Originally Posted by eastbaylifter
Normally I'd stay miles away from these discussions, but John's actually right - Jesus NEVER said one word about homosexuality. Read the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). Paul's letters in the New Testament are where it's mentioned, and I'm convinced Paul attached homosexuality since he was repressing his own attraction for men (he called it the "thorn in my side"). Pepper, instead of calling someone ignorant, quote the book and verse where Jesus PERSONALLY mentions homosexuality. Otherwise stop stooping to cheap attacks.
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Originally Posted by Pepper
Jesus also never said anything directly about rape, incest or domestic violence. Are those things okay, too?
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
That's a lame comeback.
Jesus was against anything that hurt other people. I think that as a "Christian" you would know that. Being homosexual and loving someone of the same sex hurts no one. If two people are in love, where is the hurt? Like others who claim to know the bible, you know nothing and you read it literally, in all its glorious and perverted mistranslations. It makes me sick to think that people like you call yourselves Christians. You are like the Scribes and Pharisees that Jesus railed against: you speak the letter of the law but don't know the spirit of it. And the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was NOT homosexuality. It was inhospitality to strangers. One of the highest codes of moral conduct among Middle Easterners, even today, is to show hospitality. The comfort of your guest is your prime concern. The denizens of Sodom and Gomorrah ignored that. And if they were homosexual, why would Lot offer his DAUGHTERS to the men? |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
. You are like the Scribes and Pharisees that Jesus railed against: you speak the letter of the law but don't know the spirit of it.
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
And the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was NOT homosexuality. It was inhospitality to strangers. One of the highest codes of moral conduct among Middle Easterners, even today, is to show hospitality. The comfort of your guest is your prime concern. The denizens of Sodom and Gomorrah ignored that.
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Originally Posted by Pepper
Honestly, do you REALLY think that Christ's teachings, taken as a whole, lead a reasonable man to believe homosexuality is not a sin?
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Originally Posted by Pepper
This is not simply a matter of "taking the Bible too literally." I struggle with those guys everyday and they frustrate me. However, I don't understand how you can read the Bible and come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not a sin. You are simply trying to retrofit the Bible around your lifestyle.
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Originally Posted by Pepper
One final comment...It is clear from your comments and those of others that it is not enough for Christians to say that they respect you, have compassion for you and even love you BUT we believe that homosexuality is a sin. That is tolerance.
You want me to change my belief, ignore the Bible and say that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. There is a lot of sin in my life, so I do not judge you or anyone else, however, I can't just ignore the Bible because you want me too. |
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Originally Posted by Pepper
Why do you bother in these threads? You can't talk about this without getting all worked up.
Believe what you want, I don't give a shit. |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
That's a lame comeback.
Jesus was against anything that hurt other people. I think that as a "Christian" you would know that. Being homosexual and loving someone of the same sex hurts no one. If two people are in love, where is the hurt? Like others who claim to know the bible, you know nothing and you read it literally, in all its glorious and perverted mistranslations. It makes me sick to think that people like you call yourselves Christians. You are like the Scribes and Pharisees that Jesus railed against: you speak the letter of the law but don't know the spirit of it. And the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was NOT homosexuality. It was inhospitality to strangers. One of the highest codes of moral conduct among Middle Easterners, even today, is to show hospitality. The comfort of your guest is your prime concern. The denizens of Sodom and Gomorrah ignored that. And if they were homosexual, why would Lot offer his DAUGHTERS to the men? |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Yes.
Those guys? And they frustrate you? Who the fuck are you? I am not retrofitting anything. I accept that the bible has been corrupted and mistranslated through the centuries and reflects what the church fathers at the time wanted it to say. How do explain that the word homosexual is in modern English translations, but there is no word in the Greek of the New Testament for homosexual? How do you explain that the word homosexual is a compound of Greek homo (same) and Latin sexualis? Hmm? Yet the word appears in English translations of the bible and does not exist in the original writings? Are you going to seriously tell me there is no corruption in translation? Well, believe what you want if it gives you comfort. If it preserves your world view so be it. You know nothing of either the bible's history or of homosexuality. |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Oh stop the drama! Another person's sexuality has nothing at all to do with you! You shouldn't even be thinking about it. Why are you?
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
I get involved because there are other people who may be influenced and understand. It's not all about you, you know. I also bother because you have no right or knowledge to tell me what it is to be homosexual, or what I feel.
I am not worked up, but as Jesus said... There is none so blind as he who will not see. I've presented writings over and over again refuting your sacred-held beliefs in the literal interpretation of the bible and you refuse to accept them, even though they are from degreed writers. I don't know what your background is, but I doubt it is as a linguistics or biblical history scholar. Yet you have the temerity to write off what degreed authors have said. Wait... I am worked up... over ignorance and intellectual blindness under the false guise of piety and faith. Yours is not faith, but rote. You don't know what is behind the writings you so literally intepret. And to call yourself a Christian and yet say that a group of people frustrate you? I asked before... who are you to make such a judgement? You still didn't answer that question. And then you claim "ooh, but I am a sinner". You're a hypocrite, just like the ones Jesus chastised. Have a nice life and I hope one day you can really understand what a Christian is. Hint: it's NOT someone who knows how to quote the bible. Even Shakespeare said "The devil can quote Scripture to his purpose". |
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
this is an issue that effects society i would hope everyone would think about it and decide for themselves.
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
i have studied the greek manuscripts as well and while the word homo-sexual in not in the greek version the meaning is the same. i hardly find any of peppers posts to show her to be a hypocrite. in the bible or not homo-sexuality is a sin. it was in ancient judaism of which Jesus was born, and in early christianity which Jesus started. in no extra-biblical sources that remain to us to this day of early judeo-christian history is there any evidence that homo-sexuality was ever accepted or allowed to be practiced among its members. to argue as such is ridiculous. but to each his own i guess
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
im not sure what pepper's background is in linguistics or bible history, but
i find it pretty presumptuous that you would assume you are in some way more qualified than her. i agree the bible is not translated correctly 100% of the time. that does not mean you can twist and manipulate the scriptures to say your personal weakness is not a sin. im more than prepared to discuss any "mistranslation" of the bible you think you can come up with. you are quick to point out the original greek does not use a word for homo-sexuality. big deal. do you speak another language? i do. and i know that when translateing there is not always a word for word translation available. i have studied the greek manuscripts as well and while the word homo-sexual in not in the greek version the meaning is the same. i hardly find any of peppers posts to show her to be a hypocrite. in the bible or not homo-sexuality is a sin. it was in ancient judaism of which Jesus was born, and in early christianity which Jesus started. in no extra-biblical sources that remain to us to this day of early judeo-christian history is there any evidence that homo-sexuality was ever accepted or allowed to be practiced among its members. to argue as such is ridiculous. but to each his own i guess |
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Originally Posted by Pepper
Second, Minotaur, I have said only that the teachings of Christ and the Bible hold that homosexuality, or any sex outside of marriage, is a sin.
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Originally Posted by Pepper
You on the other hand have called me numerous names, suggested that I am not a true Christian, called me ignorant. All because I don't agree with your interpretation of scripture.
You, sir, are much more of an oppressive bigot that I ever will be. |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
I get involved because there are other people who may be influenced and understand. It's not all about you, you know. I also bother because you have no right or knowledge to tell me what it is to be homosexual, or what I feel.
I am not worked up, but as Jesus said... There is none so blind as he who will not see. I've presented writings over and over again refuting your sacred-held beliefs in the literal interpretation of the bible and you refuse to accept them, even though they are from degreed writers. I don't know what your background is, but I doubt it is as a linguistics or biblical history scholar. Yet you have the temerity to write off what degreed authors have said. Wait... I am worked up... over ignorance and intellectual blindness under the false guise of piety and faith. Yours is not faith, but rote. You don't know what is behind the writings you so literally intepret. And to call yourself a Christian and yet say that a group of people frustrate you? I asked before... who are you to make such a judgement? You still didn't answer that question. And then you claim "ooh, but I am a sinner". You're a hypocrite, just like the ones Jesus chastised. Have a nice life and I hope one day you can really understand what a Christian is. Hint: it's NOT someone who knows how to quote the bible. Even Shakespeare said "The devil can quote Scripture to his purpose". |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
And you are wrong about homosexuality.
If you kept your interpretation and your opinions of scripture and gays to yourself, you would not be complaining now. You opened the door. Good try in spinning it so I am the oppressor and bigot. Wha wha wha! I have no tolerance for people who wear their religion and their pride in their religion on their sleeves. And I ask for the THIRD time: who are those guys (I'm going to assume gay guys) who frustrate you and why? Who are you that they should frustrate you? |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
If you kept your interpretation and your opinions of scripture and gays to yourself, you would not be complaining now. You opened the door. |
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Originally Posted by Pepper
So, you have a right to your opinion, but I don't.
What an open-minded guy you are. I am so inspired. |
I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? :: I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? : I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? : I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!????
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
so how do you feel about gay christians?
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Originally Posted by ForemanRules
how did you know about that
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Originally Posted by ISuckPenisImGay
I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!????
I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? :: I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? : I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? : I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? |
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
well i looked at that site minotaur and all i can say is that might possibly be the worst use of the bible i have ever see. to use that to reconcile your belief in God with your personal life is really grasping at straws. i really dont know where to begin with that site.
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Why don't you try? You've done nothing but knock the site without giving any specifics. Could it be because you don't know what you're talking about and don't WANT to believe what he says, despite all the references he gives?
Unless and until you can come up with some valid refutations to anything he says... any old thing... c'mon, pick a topic since you opened the door... I don't accept your out-of-hand rejections of his writings as anything less than the fear that it would shake the foundations of your world to learn that something you believed in is wrong. You cannot think outside the box! |
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Originally Posted by Pepper
THE BIBLE REPEATEDLY DEMONSTRATES GOD'S LOVE, CARE AND ACCEPTANCE OF ALL OUTCAST, REJECTED, MISUNDERSTOOD AND ALIENATED PEOPLE.
Yes. This is true. Let's be specific. Christ befriended the prostitute at the well. God loves all of us. We are all sinners. Christ showing compassion for the prostitute in no way implies that prostitution is not a sin. Also, this is not really related to anything, but I found this quote today. I think it summarizes my frustration with many Christians when it comes to dealing with homosexuals and other sexual sinners: C. S. Lewis in his book, Mere Christianity, says: "If anyone thinks that Christians regard unchastity as the supreme vice, he is quite wrong. The sins of the flesh are bad, but they are the least bad of all sins. All the worst pleasures are purely spiritual. The pleasure of putting other people in the wrong, of bossing and patronizing and spoiling sport, and backbiting; the pleasures of power, of hatred. For there are two things inside me competing with the human self which I must try to become: they are the animal self, and the diabolical self; and the diabolical self is the worst of the two. That is why a cold, self-righteous prig, who goes regularly to church, may be far nearer to hell than a prostitute. But of course, it's better to be neither." |
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Originally Posted by Pepper
Now, one for you...how do you and Dr. Truluck spin out of these passages?
Leviticus 18:22: "No man is to have sexual relations with another man; God hates that." Leviticus 20:13: "If a man has sexual relations with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death. They are responsible for their own death." |
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Originally Posted by Pepper
Rom 1:26,27
Rom 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. Rom 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. |
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
best post yet. simple, clear, concise logic.
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
Special note on YADA: The Hebrew word YADA "to know" is never used in the Old Testament to mean "to have sex with". People have been conditioned to think that "to know someone biblically" means to have sex. The use of YADA in Genesis 4:1-2 to say that Adam knew Eve and she conceived and gave birth to Cain is followed by saying that later she gave birth to his brother Abel without any reference to YADA. Why? Simply because YADA does not mean to have sex. It is a general term that describes many kinds of intimate relationships. I have studied all of the uses of YADA in the Old Testament, and my personal conclusion is that it never means what we mean by sexual intercourse. Just substitute a common slang expression for sexual intercourse instead of the word "know" in Genesis 4:1 and you will see how inappropriate the idea is. The Old Testament Hebrew writers never thought or wrote in those terms. The Bible never gives any details about sexual acts. The only clear Hebrew term for sexual acts is "to lie with," which is left without any further explanation.
multiple things with this. the first is that the original Hebrew uses no vowels. so when he says YADA meaning "to know" he is adding in order to help translate. something you are against because it causes problems in translation. well it appears both sides do it doesnt it. the lack of vowels in Hebrew is a common problem leading to many problems such as confusion over numbers referenced (how many people did samson really kill with the jawbone of an ass?) or even to the proper spelling and pronunciation of the name of the lord. the second point i have is this man clearly states this is his personal opinion of translation. it is still ambiguous and could still easily be translated that "to know" is in reference to a sexual act. but continue to grasp at straws if you so desire. this site does not prove that homosexuality was allowed. even if we say the bible says nothing about homosexuality, which i consider to be a stretch you still have 2000 or so years of tradition to overcome. you are saying God allows homosexuality, to prove this you have to show that at some point in judeo-christian history man changed the laws of God. you need to show that 2000 years of tradition is incorrect and that man changed what was once an accepted practice into something against the laws of God. not impossible, but very difficult. it is amazing to me that this is a debateable issue. the laws of God are that sexual relationships outside of marriage are against the church of God. do they happen? yes. are they accepted? no. homosexual marriage was never practiced in judeo-christian history. that is easily proven. so if the marriage of two males was never accepted in these societies how could the sexual union be? open your eyes. this has nothing to do with me blinding myself to the truth. it has to do with simple logic. |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Go read the site.
Done. |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Go do some research, open your eyes and your mind, and grow up. |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Further pointing out that you know little to nothing of linguistics... Hebrew and Arabic (both descendant dialects of the same protolanguage) DO have vowels. No language can be spoken without vowels. The vowel SOUNDS are simply not written in Hebrew and Arabic except as diacritic marks.
Btw, did it ever occur to you that at least 50-75% of the world doesn't give a rat's ass about your bible and your Judeo-Christian God or believe in either one? So who are you to state what is in God's mind when God is only in YOUR mind? All you have to go on is a belief in something that probably does not exist, yet you want to keep shoving YOUR beliefs in my face. Furthermore, there are societies where homosexual men were highly regarded and treated with respect. The Plains Indians come to mind. And yes there are societies where it was perfectly normal for two men to join together for life. Go do some research, open your eyes and your mind, and grow up. |
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Originally Posted by Pepper
It takes very little research to see that your postion holds no water. I agree wtih bio on this, it is somewhat incredible that this is even debated. Like I said, just denounce the Bible's authority rather than try to bend it around your lifestyle. Seems less trouble and less embarrassing.
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
exactly they are not written with vowels. the hebrew language does not use vowels in its written language. that doesnt change my post. and my post is directed to you. who professes to be a christian. if the person im writting to is not christian then i use a different approach. are you really this stupid? im not trying to convince anyone here to be christian. im saying this is what i base my beliefs on. shoving in your face? you ask me to respond to a website you post and when i do and you are unable to respond to the post and then say im shoving my beliefs on you? i didnt start the thread. and your examples of societies are of non-christian ones. i readily accept homosexuality was an accepted practice in non-christian societies. so what. if you are a believer in Christ then stop with the "what about non-christian BS" and get to the facts. if you are not a believer in Christ then i say i base my beliefs on my Christian values and that is the reason why i feel the way i do. i have not pushed my values on anyone, but i will speak boldly about the way i feel. when have i ever said homosexuals go to hell? never. ive not condemned anyone here. stop playing the repressed minority card. its getting old and isnt even valid
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
The bible has no authority! I don't have to accept it or abide by it or fit it into my "lifestyle" (and do tell me what that is) because I don't believe in it. I'm trying to make you understand that it's been used, incorrectly and immorally, to punish people... many people who don't even believe in it. What part of that don't you understand?
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
The bible has no authority! I don't have to accept it or abide by it or fit it into my "lifestyle" (and do tell me what that is) because I don't believe in it. I'm trying to make you understand that it's been used, incorrectly and immorally, to punish people... many people who don't even believe in it. What part of that don't you understand?
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Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
I agree 100%!
Long time since you have been around here, heh? |
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Originally Posted by bio-chem
... you have pretty much just shot yourself in the foot with that website.
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Christ never denounced love between two people, regardless of their sex. And that I stand by.
Continue to speak "boldly" about the way you feel and continue to piss people off. You'll learn in time when you've pissed off the wrong person, that "it's better to say nothing and be thought stupid than to speak and remove all doubt" (Chinese proverb), as you have done repeatedly. |
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Yeah, OK, whatever...
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Originally Posted by Pepper
John H., I suggest you buy a Bible and read it. Then, maybe, you will stop making such ridiculously false statements about what it says and doesn't say.
Seriously, you statements about the Bible are absurd. Ignorant is probably a better word. |
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Originally Posted by John H.
Hi Pepper,
I do actually own one and have read the whole book many times. I stand COMPLETELY by what I said. God - HIMSELF - and Christ - HIMSELF - NEVER SAID ONE WORD - PERIOD - EVER! The Bible was written by MEN - over 40 actually - and over a long period of time. Each with their own personal comments and thoughts. Take Care, John H. |
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Originally Posted by Pepper
Whoa now, wait a minute. Read John's posts here and everywhere. He is constantly saying that God says nothing about homosexuality. He is dead wrong. Paul, in God's word, mentions it. Stating that the Bible is OK with Homosexuality is absurd. I am sorry if that offends you, but it is.
I get really tired of liberal Christians trying to retro-fit the Bible to fit their agenda. What is funny, is they pick and issue where the Bible is pretty clear. What is funny to me is that you accuse me of cheap attacks when John H. posts a ridiculously cheap assault on Christianity with nearly every post. I suggest you use the search feature before you jump on my case. |