IronMagazine Bodybuilding Forums


IronMagLabs - Bodybuilding Supplements
Pages: 1

17AA's effect on liver: Same when shooting as when drinking?

(CLICK HERE here to view the original thread with full colors/images)



Posted by: ZorroAzul

A snapshot of what leads to my question:

I am 9-10 weeks into a Sustanon + Deca cycle. I am also a social drinker, South Beach rat. So my routine for a long time has been to drink a lot on weekends.

I haven't felt any difference at all on my body's response to alcohol while on the cycle. 2 weeks ago I started to shoot Winstrol, but the pain at the injection site was severe, to say the least. I read Mudge's explanation that Winny can be drank, so that's just what I did for the last week....

Man did I get drunk.... let me refrase, intoxicated. This was extremely embarrassing since it was on a date and I drank a lot less than a usual night out clubbing. Still, haven't been this drunk since college, and that was 6 years ago.

This weekend coming up I do not plan on drinking, maybe a beer or two and I am OD'ing on Milk Thystle.

So this leads to the question that starts the thread, is there any difference on the effect on the liver? or was it just a buildup that caused this??

feedback is welcome.


Posted by: plouffe

So do you think this other intoxicants ( sterioids ) could have caused your alcohal tolerance to go down?


Posted by: ZorroAzul

Most definitely so. I've only felt like this one time that I was taking LAMISIL for skin fungi. Turns out that LAMISIL inhibits the enzyme in your liver that breaks down alcohol.

But this wasn't a gradual alcohol tolerance decrease, it was all of a sudden and the only new variable would be the Winstrol.


Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Zorro drinking on any roid is probably not wise, but with a 17aa roid your asking for trouble. I would decide what you want more. Its gotta be either drinking or a bodybuilding lifestyle. The two are not supposed to go together.


Posted by: Supermans Daddy

I would say that 'Yeah Boy" your liver is scream'n and cuss'n you out!!!!!!!!! But that is my opinion based on my deal'n with 10 or 50 mg tabs and experience wit Halo, not liquid Winnie. I know that a lot of tha brothas drink it and I would assume that it's tha same as any 17aa compound. Feel me when iI say that ANY 17aa is gonna test your liver and drink'n alcohol is gonna tax your liver even more. Take'n these things into tha mix, I think it would be only natural for your liver to not do tha damn thang right because of tha demands that have been already placed on it due to multiple passes of compounds already being processed through. I would be bout gett'n some Liver X or Liver Restoration and keep'n thangs run'n on tha safe tip!Might not be a bad idea to pass up that grog at least till you chill on your cycle.


Posted by: Mudge

Either way it goes through the liver.


Posted by: Supermans Daddy

Quote:
I would assume that it's tha same as any 17aa compound. Feel me when iI say that ANY 17aa is gonna test your liver and drink'n alcohol is gonna tax your liver even more.
We're on tha same page.
Quote:
I think it would be only natural for your liver to not do tha damn thang right because of tha demands that have been already placed on it due to multiple passes of compounds already being processed through.
Thats on point .


Posted by: Mudge

Alcohol is plain not good if abused, but hey its your life, it can be as short and unpleasant as you like it to be.


Posted by: Supermans Daddy

I feel ya . Drink'n and gett'n high and shit, that ain't me. However if someone make's tha choice to go out like that, hey that's their world. I'm sure that there are some people that do their thang wit alcohol and it's all good. I don't judge another man until I've walked in his shoes, but there are some shoes I ain't ready to try on. I'm an extremist and I'd go out on a limb and say that anybody that does juice is somewhat of an extremist also,but shit I don't understand I give a respectful bit of fear too. I'm scared of DNP, T3, insulin, and Get High Drugs include'n alcohol. I've watched people in my own family change into someone that I did'nt know, it even altered their physical appearence. Yeah Grog is some deep shit boy ! Just kick'n a thought.


Posted by: TrojanMan60563

I think taking any drug should not be taken lightly, you have to respect what it can do for you, and to you. Its when you ignore what it can do to you is when you can end up hurt or worse dead.


Posted by: GSXR750

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...950&highlight=

drinking and steroids don't mix, pick one or the other.


Posted by: Just a guy

Start smoking weed.... I NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER drink on cycle especially if on ORal's... you dont sound that brilliant... i have a friend that drinks while he is on and he freaks out and calls me in the middle of the night saying "DUDE, Which side is your liver on... because its hurting right now" lol

When im on strickly injectables and NOT dieting and its a very special occasion(like a whole bunch of bitches at my house) I will drink about 6 beers. Or a couple mixed drinks... but that is once in a blue moon.... Calm down on the ALcohol brotha... i would hate to see you have to get a liver biopsy like i did.


Posted by: Mudge

What side is your liver on? Damn I hardly payed attention and I still know that shit. He shouldn't be drugging himself up it sounds like.


Posted by: Just a guy

its that same guy... u remember... that was doing all the shit and roids... He's doing alot better now but still... i dont think he's determined like me... u must remember he is only 19 years old so the whole Party thing is still in him.... Its still in me too but i feel very mature for my age.


Posted by: Mudge

Party thing? Whats that. I guess I missed out on that stuff. I drank a little but I didn't get trashed on a regular basis, so maturity is something I think he defined on his own if he thinks he is mature, because I would not agree with such a definition.


Posted by: ZorroAzul

Ok we are drifting off subject but I want add something...

Drinking responsibily on a regular basis is not an indicative of inmaturity. If anything at all it would be doing steroids to get your muscles bigger (which I am a doing as well). In this world we live in, muscles only buy you respect in an age that most of us have passed a long time ago, High School.

I live on South Beach, Miami where drinking socially every night out is a way of life. Doctors, Lawers, Brokers, Millionaire Retirees all adhere to this lifestyle, and all are well past their mid 20's, most in fact (like myself) in our early 30's.

Moderation is the key to anything in life my friends.. even drinking a lot of WATER can kill you.

Needless to say, this weekend I will be completely dry... until the gear clears my system. Thanks for the good advice, who knows maybe you saved me from a lot bigger problems.


Posted by: Mudge

Drinking + steroids is pushing your health. If you are watching your blood pressure and your liver values, your gains wont be as good but at least you are watching your health somewhat.

However I doubt most people do watch these things. I drink every once in awhile, in fact I had about 12 ounces of wine last night. I do not however, get trashed.


Posted by: Supermans Daddy

Yo mellow, I feel ya and I do agree wit you on several points one of which would be you simply asked for some info ,not anyone's opinion or permission( include'n mine ) to do your thang. If I in any way was outta pocket, "My Bad Homey" I think what tha homies was kick'n in their own way was " Be bout being safe and healthy" at least that's what I'm scream'n. But keep'n it real I gotta say that I got another thought bout that Anabolic use being tha same vibe as drink'n. There are MANY reasons ,health included that a person might use anabolic drugs, but on tha flip side there's only one reason that I can think of for drink'n, " To get Drunk"! I don't drink so I can't call it, it just makes sense to me. Just a thought, Reality is a muthafucka, especially sober. ha ha ha ! Be safe homey. Peace and Love!


Posted by: GSXR750

Quote:
Originally posted by ZorroAzul
Ok we are drifting off subject but I want add something...

I live on South Beach, Miami where drinking socially every night out is a way of life. Doctors, Lawers, Brokers, Millionaire Retirees all adhere to this lifestyle, and all are well past their mid 20's, most in fact (like myself) in our early 30's.
Nobody is drifting off subject. I think the message we are all trying to convey is that drinking on a regular basis while using anabolics is detrimental to your health. The way I think of it, Choosing to drink all the time is just taking away from your results, gear or no gear.

As for the doctors and millionaires...............who cares what everyone else does.

Worry about the weeds in your own backyard because Im growing something fruitful.
-mudge-


Posted by: Mudge

Detrimental to your health and your gains. Be an alcoholic or get in shape, your choice.

ODing on milk thistle means exactly dick, its not going to prevent much of anything.


Posted by: ZorroAzul

GSX, yes we are drifting off subject when we start questioning the judgement and maturity of people. That is why I mentioned the regular crowd in SoBe, who (in the most part) seem to enjoy of a maturity level higher than what is often exhibited on these boards by most of us.

Mudge, options are not always black or white (be an alcoholic or get in shape), there are many shades of gray in between. I like to be in shape and I have been all my life, but I like to have a few drinks socially as well. I doubtfully think that this labels me as an alcoholic, or that it will prevent me from being in good shape either.

We should drop the subject about alcohol and gear, we all seem to agree that they are like water and oil, they do NOT mix.

Mudge, you mentioned that Milk Thistle is useless, Can you expand on this please?... You just broke my heart! I thought that taking it was extremely beneficial, perhaps your silence would have been better since I may have benefited from a placebo effect!


Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally posted by ZorroAzul
Mudge, options are not always black or white (be an alcoholic or get in shape), there are many shades of gray in between. I like to be in shape and I have been all my life, but I like to have a few drinks socially as well.
Having "a few drinks" and "man did I get drunk" are not the same thing. If you are abusing the liver milk thistle wont do much for it, its a nice supplement, but its not going to protect you from what I've read. The important thing to do with milk thistle for "liver health" is to use it for long periods of time.

Tyler Liver Detox or Glucorell R have more support as liver treatment. Unless injected as an emergency (done in Europe) I could not point to milk thistle being actively used in the US for liver treatments.

Nice supplement, but its not going to help someone who is beating their liver down. What your liver values are I would have no idea, I hope you do.


Posted by: ZorroAzul

thank you very much for the tip. I read about both supplements and Tyler's sounds more appropiate, but it is not available at GNC or Vitaminshoppe... I am gonna go to the couple of local health stores and supermarkets, maybe I'll get lucky if not I'll order it.

I never get over the edge when I drink, that is why I said "Man did I get drunk!", I was in shock (besides embarrassed) that I drank less than usual and it felt as if I had chugged a bottle of vodka.

So be wise and learn from other's mistakes, do not drink while on gear!


Posted by: ZorroAzul

Mudge, one more question since you seem to be very well informed on this subject.
When should I do my liver values bloodwork? during the cycle? PCT, time off? all of the above??

My biggest concern is that I would do these exams through my doctor, and I do not want him to reveal to him that I am using AAS unless I have to.

This is an important subject into which I haven't read anyone dwelve deep, perhaps you and/or anyone knowledgeable on the matter will have a minute to offer your advice, thank you.


Posted by: Mudge

Tyler is unfortunately pretty expensive.

In theory you would be doing it on cycle to see how bad off you are, and a couple weeks afterwards (or more if you wish) to see if you have recouperated. Usually peoples liver values normalize very quickly, however some peoples do not. One guy at Fitness Geared found out he had a fatty liver, and blamed it on his cycle of M1T, frankly not likely that 4 weeks destroyed it.


Posted by: Supermans Daddy

Yo bro, There's a kit availible almost every fighter and track guy I know use's. PM me and I'll shoot ya the hook up. There's also several companies that do just blood work that offer services. It cost $40.00 and they send you tha stuff to send them your hook-up and a container to keep it cold, you overnite it to them and they get back at ya in 24hrs.Tha whole deal cost less than $60.00. If you're down wit someone at a university you can get down that way too. If you need info PM me like I said, I got your back!


Posted by: gr81

what a nice guy you are Mik, what up thou maYn. get at'cha boi...


Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Whats wrong with telling your doc you are on gear? Isn't it true that he can't tell the police what your doing. Thats like doctor patient confidentiality. By law he doesn't have the right to give out your biz. I would think if you told your doctor you were doing something potentially harmful to your body that would be enough reason to allow the doc to give you regular blood work


Posted by: Mudge

By law they can't, but sometimes they will. Guess who gets busted, the guy who gets busted for gear who doesn't have enough money to screw his own doctor for breaking the oath.


Posted by: ZorroAzul

In my case guys, it is not that. My Doc has been my family's doc for at least 15 years, he's seen me grow and even played golf with my father.

So imagine the lecture and spanking I would receive if he ever found out, hehe....
I almost blow my cover when at the beginning of the cycle I did a blood exam for a new life insurance policy... I was in excellent health with the exemption of AST serum that was over the limit. I did my research and it is common for Deca to raise this numbers.

Mikhal, PM means private message?? sorry, as you can see by my well deserved label under my name, I am a "newbie". Thanks for the help, I'd definitely want to take the test that you mentioned.


Posted by: JerseyDevil

You have to be careful discussing the use of anabolics with your doctor. Your doc will still keep medical records documenting your lab reports and bloodwork. Your insurance comapany is then privy to this information. If they figure it out, then your insurance coverage will be dropped, and good luck getting another.

I believe it was Dante B who mentioned to his doctor he was taking ephedra, while it was still legal. A few months later he received a cancellation of coverage letter from his insurance company. Reason? Abuse of a stimulant... So even if your doc honors the oath, your records can still be viewed by others.


Posted by: Just a guy

my doc knows i juice... He was the one that convinced me that there is not much wrong with em... He said no body gets hurt from using roids unless there prone to some illness like Liver problems.... My doc kicks ass... but he talks like a queer... its iiight tho.


Posted by: Mudge

Nobody smart has problems unless prone to illness/complications.


Posted by: Supermans Daddy

Don't even sweat tha small stuff,EVERYBODY was a newbie at one point. Some of us still are even after years of doing this shit. A bunch of people kick tha wanna be guru shit, I just speak on what I know about and try my best to keep it real.Yep PM is private mail ,and I would be more than happy to help a brotha out wit tha little bit of info that I've been blessed wit. Get at me Homey. Peace and Love!


(CLICK HERE here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

17AA's effect on liver: Same when shooting as when drinking?


Article Archives

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60