2nd Cycle advice sought, please share your thoughts [Forum Archive]

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2nd Cycle advice sought, please share your thoughts

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Posted by: ZorroAzul

I am going to buy my 2nd cycle gear now that I have access to it, just in case.

I have access to anything I can think of, including HGH. Also price is not a problem when considering this cycle.

My stats: 30y.o. 185 lbs, 6'0 very low BF%

I want to get up to 200 lbs, and stay lean. I don't mind a slow but steady 10-12 week increase in weight. but I would like to avoid water retention as much as possible.

My thoughts were:
sustanon, 500 mg/week
Equipose (British Dragon) 500mg/week

all this for 10 weeks, with Nolva 20mg/day

I would prefer to avoid HGH and Prop. because of the daily injections.

comments will be appreciated, thanks so much!

Posted by: BCC

Your cycle looks decent to me. I would prefer using a single ester testosterone rather than sustanon, but that's personal preference.

If you really want to avoid some water retention, throw in .25mgs of arimidex/day.

Posted by: ZorroAzul

Thanks for reply, BCC
I thought Sustanon because I read that it leads to less water retention than Cyp. or Enanth. But I also read that most experienced guys in here prefer single esters, why is that??

Last but not least, I understand that Arimidex should be run instead of Nolvadex, leaving the latter for PCT. please correct me if I am wrong.

Posted by: ZorroAzul

"Study shows Arimidex boosts testosterone"...

Maybe you guys already knew, I didn't... here's the link

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBo...stosterone.htm

Posted by: Mudge

It boosts T because less T converts to E.

Posted by: biggmike777

I would stick with a single ester such as cyp or enanthate unless you want to do EOD injections. Sust IMO is only effective like this.

Posted by: ZorroAzul

I thought I'd share this with you guys, it is a java calculator of plasma levels of gear in your blood throught the cycle... very useful!

http://powerboard.rockarfett.com/roidcalc/

Posted by: Mudge

I haven't looked deeply into it, but all the educated chemists (I'm talking 4 year degrees or better) say its shit.

One of the well known chem "gurus" was almost a Backstreet Boy, some of you may know him.

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally posted by biggmike777
I would stick with a single ester such as cyp or enanthate unless you want to do EOD injections. Sust IMO is only effective like this.

Yep, sust is legendary for no good reasons. I happen to prefer prop, I got tired of waiting for cyp and enan to do their work, if you are on long cycles though they are great.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Quote:

Originally posted by biggmike777
I would stick with a single ester such as cyp or enanthate unless you want to do EOD injections. Sust IMO is only effective like this.

I am planning a 12 week cycle of Sust injecting every third day. You don't feel this will be good? EOD injections is a gram a week. I think that is probably going a bit to heavy for my first cycle. I have plans of stacking 30mg dbol for first 4 weeks, and possibly running a light 300mg per week deca for the first 10 weeks of the cycle. If things go real well I may end the last 4 weeks with 50 MG winny ED. I'm going to run Arimidex the entire cycle, and PCT with Nolva and HCG. I read something in MD mag writen by Dave Palumbo saying the proper way to run Sust is EOD. He is a test freak, and I doubt this is a wise choice for a virgin like myself. Especially since I have plans on adding light doses of a few other things.

Posted by: Power Rabbit

eod injects dosent have to come out to be a gram a week...you dont have to jab a whole cc each time...its just more of a pain in the ass since sust is usually found in 1cc amps or redijects, so you have to store your half a amp till next jab

Posted by: Dale Mabry

I would say a gram a week is too much for your first dilly

Posted by: ZorroAzul

Guys, I was just running the numbers in the above calculator, and I see that to establish a high and constant plasma level in the blood, the bestway would be to front-load with Sust 500 first shot, and Eq 500mg first shot... then 250 each 3 days later...

that's be a full gram, all of a sudden on my 2nd cycle... isn't that too much?? please advise, thank you!

Posted by: Dale Mabry

I tried that calculator, me thinks something is awry with it.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

I am going to be getting amps when I do Sust. thats why I mentioned the gram a week. I would love to have it in a vial but the only place I know of that has it that way is IP and I don't want to use their oils. I am just gonna stick with 1ml every third day. thats the easiest way for me to deal with amps, and not taking too much. Maybe for a second cycle I will up it to a gram

Posted by: Dale Mabry

Buy an empty sterile vial and draw it out and put all the amps in the vial.

Posted by: ZorroAzul

that calculator seems accurate to me...

Using thte half-lives posted by Mudge, and taking into account the correct amounts of each ester in SUSTANON 250, I once calculated the average delivery to the blood system.

The best delivery came out to be every 4 days, and it was incredible to see the genius of the chemists that calculated the percentages of each ester... the numbers fell into place magically!!

and this calculator returns similar numbers, only that it is PLASMA LEVELS, which I did not calculate (you need to first calculate the delivery of the substance to the blood, then the time that it remains active)

Posted by: Mudge

Sust was created for a steady release of test over a period of about 15 days for HRT overseas, here in the US cypionate is used.

Posted by: biggmike777

Quote:

Originally posted by TrojanMan60563
I am planning a 12 week cycle of Sust injecting every third day. You don't feel this will be good? EOD injections is a gram a week. I think that is probably going a bit to heavy for my first cycle. I have plans of stacking 30mg dbol for first 4 weeks, and possibly running a light 300mg per week deca for the first 10 weeks of the cycle. If things go real well I may end the last 4 weeks with 50 MG winny ED. I'm going to run Arimidex the entire cycle, and PCT with Nolva and HCG. I read something in MD mag writen by Dave Palumbo saying the proper way to run Sust is EOD. He is a test freak, and I doubt this is a wise choice for a virgin like myself. Especially since I have plans on adding light doses of a few other things.

I do feel this will be effective for a first timer. It will not be as effective as EOD injects, and Rabbit said it perfect in that you can do half an amp EOD. If you can though I would try and get some kind of a single ester if you would prefer to inject less often.

Posted by: ZorroAzul

You guys are swaying me towards Propionate.... so it would be EOD or E3D??? 500mg a week would combine well with 500mg Equipoise??

Last but not least, should I front-load EQ??

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally posted by ZorroAzul
Using thte half-lives posted by Mudge, and taking into account the correct amounts of each ester in SUSTANON 250, I once calculated the average delivery to the blood system.

Problem #1 Those are active half lives, not true half lives.
Problem #2 Blood levels do not decline in a linear fashion.

One chemist told me that typically, a true half life is 4 or 5 times shorter than the active half life. One chart I have seen shows Enanthate at 5 days true half life, not 10.5 as the active half life is.

So again I would say that from people I trust that have looked at the calculator, it was a nice idea but its shyt.

If you are only looking for 10 or 15 pounds a gram is an insane amount, 500 test is all you need and you still will be eating like a lazy man with no appetite. 10 or 15 pounds for a second cycle, easy. JMO

Posted by: ZorroAzul

Thanks Mudge,

I am glad I posted the question.

I do not understand what you mention about appetite, I need to increase mine.

So in your opinion, just go with a simple enanthate 500/week cycle?? as I said before, I have an awesome source with access to anything, including real Primobolan. should I stack it with Sustanon, enanthate, etc?? should I get Equipoise for the increased appetite? how much??

Arimidex still as an anti estrogen even if only running 500/week test??

Thank you very much again for the help!

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Quote:

Originally posted by biggmike777
I do feel this will be effective for a first timer. It will not be as effective as EOD injects, and Rabbit said it perfect in that you can do half an amp EOD. If you can though I would try and get some kind of a single ester if you would prefer to inject less often.

For as long as I known what a steroid was I have wanted to use Sust. I will give it a shot for my first cycle and see if my desire to use it are worth it. I was thinking of using ethanate for my first cycle, but since I can get Sust I want to give it a chance. I don't know if I will mind frequent injections because I havn't done it yet, but if the results are good and the pain is not massive then I don't think I will mind. We'll see whats up soon.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
Buy an empty sterile vial and draw it out and put all the amps in the vial.

I thought about doing this, but is it a safe/sterile idea? I don't want to expose all the oil to air while transfering then let it sit in a vial for weeks. Sounds like breeding ground for bacteria.

Posted by: Mudge

You wont have to increase diet much at all to hit 15 pounds at the end of a cycle, you dont even need to stack if your diet is on. A lot of people bitch that they dont put on more than 30 but seriously thats getting into unhealthy territory.

You could look to Vitamin B12 shots for appetite, doesn't work on some. Same with EQ, doesn't increase appetite for some people, and its an $ way to do it.

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally posted by TrojanMan60563
I thought about doing this, but is it a safe/sterile idea? I don't want to expose all the oil to air while transfering then let it sit in a vial for weeks. Sounds like breeding ground for bacteria.

How many weeks are we talking, HCG is not good for all that long, 6 weeks is fine in the fridge in bac water.

Yes its sterile, you have the bac water, plus its hardly exposed to air its inside a syringe. Very little ever touches air.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Hey Mudge I feel safe storing 10 slin pins with the HCG in the fridge. Dale was talking about opening all the Sust amps I am getting and drawing out the oil and putting it into a vial. This way I could do like 1/2cc injects EOD instead of 1cc E3D. I just don't know if this is a good idea exposing all that oil to air and rebottling it. I would think over a 12 week period the bacteria levels would get bad after it was all exposed to the air tranf from amp to vial

Posted by: ZorroAzul

Trojan, I just finished a 10 week, 250Sustanon, 200 Deca E4D

I have a very hard time being hungry, so I guess the deca didn't work much. I still put on 15 solid lbs, cero side effects other than a little acne on my back.

I would like to try something new on my next cycle, but I was so happy with sustanon that I may just go back to it. So whatever your decision is, rest assured that you will be happy with the results.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Thanks Zorro. I just have a gut feeling that I will like Sust. Its what I have wanted to do forever and a day. Glad to hear you had good results from it. When I start I will post results, and I am for sure going to post some before/after pics. I want some feedback on the cycle results.

Posted by: Supermans Daddy

What up Zorro ! Of course you know that I'm gonna say that you might wanna throw some Tren in tha mix wit that EQ and just get crazy lean muscle. I can imagine tha scene in tha original Frankenstein movie where you see a ocean of torch's as tha villager's bum rush tha castle to kick tha monstas ass whenever I make this next statement. I HATE TEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! However I do understand tha logic in using it. Good luck on your roll Homey!

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally posted by TrojanMan60563
Dale was talking about opening all the Sust amps I am getting and drawing out the oil and putting it into a vial.

Oh, well thats up to you. I dont like amps myself, they are "cute" I guess but they are a pain in the ass for me to deal with

Posted by: Supermans Daddy

Quote:

Oh, well thats up to you. I dont like amps myself, they are "cute" I guess but they are a pain in the ass for me to deal with

MAN do I feel ya !!!!!!!! I don't like to perform surgery to open tha Masteron amps either. I hate to admit it but I hardly ever get it all tha way perfect, wound up buy'n a glass cutter at tha hardward works great. Still a pain in tha ass.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

I am going to buy the amp cutters/opener from GPZ. I hope that makes opening amps easier. or I am going to have a long 12 weeks of messing with amps

Posted by: ZorroAzul

I've never ever had a problem openig amps... I just use the alcohol pad first to disinfect the neck, then use that same pad to shield my fingers.. a little pressure and "pop!" done deal.... very easy!

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Hey do any of you actually use laxtex gloves when injecting? Or does that just protect the doctor from getting your blood on him/her?

Posted by: Power Rabbit

i dont...just wash up

Posted by: ZorroAzul

Still confused on how to proceed...

Mudge, you said 1g/week is too much for what I want. Do you mean 1g test, or 1g total gear at a time? I was doing 250sus +200 deca E4D and "only" gained 15 lbs...

I really want to maintain my natural "rippedness" even if at the cost of not gaining as much muscle. I am not shooting for a massive body, more for 6'0 200 lbs ripped.

In your opinion, would I be better off on a cycle of Eq 400/week and 500 sust?? too much Eq? too much sus??

thanks!

Posted by: Mudge

1g total, if you are a lazy eater you could go for it I just think its ridiculous to run so much drugs if you are looking for half cycle gains.

I think its clear you aren't going to agree with where I'm coming from though so I will just leave it at that

Posted by: ZorroAzul

thank you for your reply.

I am not meaning to agree or disagree, I really just do not undestand and I am trying to educate myself. Maybe that's why my questions may sound repetitive.

I like what I hear about Eq because of the definition it adds, and the increase in appetite... I read min, dosage 400/week.
But I also hear (specially you Mudge) saying that Test should be the base of all cycles.. and base should be more than any other in the stack, so that's why I say 500 sus, 400 eq... but it does look like a LOT to me as well.

Could I just run the Eq by itself? or maybe with only 250 sus insted of 500?? Thanks again for your time!

Posted by: Supermans Daddy

I hate to butt in, But I'm really not joke'n around when I say that if you are try'n to get lean muscle and shredd at tha same time, Tren and EQ is tha way to go. I 'm no expert but I think you can get much more cut wit EQ then wit Test. And I 'm sure that Tren will put Lean muscle on. PM me and I send you some pics of me on EQ/TREN/Winnie, wit NO TEST, I get super hero look'n results. As always this is just tha way it works from my experience.

Posted by: ZorroAzul

Mikhal, I am terrified of losing hair while on Tren.... But I know it would be the way to go.

So far in my last cycle I had no hair loss... I don't know how far I want to push myself.

Posted by: Mudge

The base does not have to be more, but if your test level is 5x or more over normal and you dont weigh over 200 pounds yet you can't put on 10 or 15 pounds then something else is wrong not the drugs.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

From what I have read even on a cutting cycle test should still be used just in low doses.

Posted by: Supermans Daddy

Yeah , I feel ya on tha hair loss. It don't worry me cuz I'm natty Dread. My hair is thick and long and I would hate to lose it also. But I gotta say thats never been a problem for me. This is gonna sound wierd but my hair grows IT SEEMS when I'm juice'n. Like Samson.Rasta got crown like lion mane. ha ha ha! I and I Mon.

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