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| Isn't that covered in that precious book you have been reading by the guy with 30 years of experience? |
| Isn't that covered in that precious book you have been reading by the guy with 30 years of experience? |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
But for some reason no matter how heavy or how many reps as high as 15 or 20 I go with still heavy weight, it just doesn't want to fill out that much. Like I said it's mostly the outer part of my upper chest that gets thick even though I can go heavy or light on all upper chest movements.
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| 15 or 20 reps is not heavy weight. The term heavy is relative to how much you can lift. If you can do it 15-20 times, then it is light for you. Heavy means you can only performance a few repititions. 5 or fewer reps equates to heavy, maybe even less depending on who you ask. |
| Also, the point of my statement was to say that you cannot change the shape of a muscle. If that part doesn't fill in, then that is just how life is. |
| Make your chest bigger. How are you going to make one part of the fiber bigger than the other? Oh yeah, synthol. |
| Yep, 15-20 reps is not heavy training. It doesn't matter if you bench 650, if you are doing 405 for 15 reps that is not heavy training for you. |
| it's one muscle Johnny. ya can't pick a portion of it and "stimulate it more" |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
Than what are isolation exercises for? They are to isolate one particular part of a muscle.
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
nikegurl
Than what are isolation exercises for? They are to isolate one particular part of a muscle. |
| No. Isolation movements are to isolate ONE MUSCLE or a GROUP (i.e. one arm biceps), they are not to stimulate one END of a fiber group more than another end. |
It is the only thing I can think of besides bigger muscles or synthol.
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Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
LOL, Johnnny, should stick to posting pics in the open chat forum!
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I will definately give him credit there.
| No. Isolation movements are to isolate ONE MUSCLE or a GROUP (i.e. one arm biceps), they are not to stimulate one END of a fiber group more than another end. |
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you're still contradicting yourself when you say you agree with mudge. the chest is ONE muscle. there isn't an isolation move for the inner/middle part of your upper chest. |
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k...we may be getting somewhere here after all. are you basically asking if there are any good chest exercises you don't already know about? pretty much all of them are pressing or flye type movements. bench press (db, bb, flat, incline, decline, hammer strength etc) are your basic pressing moves. pushups and dips both use the "push" movement to work your chest. these are all compound exercises. flyes, pec deck, cable crossovers (low and high) are all isolation moves based on the flye movement. |
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you aren't going to find an exercise for that one area of your chest...b/c "that area" of your chest is not it's own muscle. good luck to you. |
| One of the lectures on the ISSA CFT video goes into this whole "shaping" issue. While watching it I was really wishing some of our members were there to see it. Not that they'd believe it anyway |
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I'm really happy with them so far. Very good practical info, but also a good bit of theory and anatomy/physiology. The part I was referring to, Dr Hatfield goes into how absurd it is to think you can shape a muscle. Basically, what has been said here many times. I just thought it gives this fact a little more clout to hear him say it. |
| He's saying that NOTHING will reshape the muscle. You can only make it larger. So, if I'm understanding your question, the answer is... nothing works. |
| You cant isolate a specific area of the chest. You need to do various things to increase its overall mass. So just keep doing what your doing, and hope that your chest develops more. |
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You CANNOT isolate the upper, middle, and lower chest! This has been debated a million times. Believe what you must. |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
Okay so let me get this straight, if I'm doing decline bench press isn't the & I quote "majority" of the part you're working the lower chest? So what are you saying that the upper chest gets worked when you do decline bench? Even if it did, it wouldn't grow as much as it would if you did upper chest work as well. |
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Originally Posted by johnnny
Speaking of which so when I'm working my upper chest doing incline bench, incline dumbell flies or whatever, you are saying that I'm not isolating the upper chest with those movements. So what you are saying is that when I'm doing my upper chest the whole chest gets worked is that what you are saying?
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Originally Posted by johnnny
There wouldn't be exercises designed to hit the upper chest, the middle chest or the lower chest if they didn't individually work those areas with the right exercises.
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Originally Posted by SF
nowhere has science ever made a connection between tighter contractions (emphasis) at portions of a muscle with growth to that portion of muscle. So while you can make portions of a muscle sore, you cannot make certain portions grow. So doing 9 sets of flat bench IS the same as 3 sets of each.
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Originally Posted by Pitboss
So we are on a page and half of everyone saying no you can not make one section of your chest grow. It all grows or doesn't grow at all.
It's like watering a tree. If you water only the south side will the north side stop growing??? I isolated the water and the south should be growing more than the north right?? NO it's the same freaking tree!!!! You can make your left chest bigger than your right though |
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Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
LOL, it's great watching you all debate the upper/middle/lower/inner/outer chest isolation!
My advice is to utilize all movements and angles for chest, period. Make sure this includes dumbbell work, not just barbells, especially dumbbell flyes. |
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Originally Posted by PreMier
Prince, do you think that doing inline will build the upper chest?
Do you think decline will build the lower chest? |
| My advice is to utilize all movements and angles for chest, period. Make sure this includes dumbbell work, not just barbells, especially dumbbell flyes. |
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Originally Posted by PreMier
Prince, do you think that doing inline will build the upper chest?
Do you think decline will build the lower chest? |
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Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
I refuse to get into these debates anymore, they go no where.
I do not believe that it's possible to stimulate different regions of a single muscle. If this were possible you could shape a muscle I do believe that hitting a muscle from every angle possible will give the greatest results and best development and that muscles grow as a whole. Regardless of where you may be sore, the entire muscle will grow proportionally, not in parts. |
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Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
I refuse to get into these debates anymore, they go no where.
I do not believe that it's possible to stimulate different regions of a single muscle. If this were possible you could shape a muscle I do believe that hitting a muscle from every angle possible will give the greatest results and best development and that muscles grow as a whole. Regardless of where you may be sore, the entire muscle will grow proportionally, not in parts. |
I am staying out of this one!! I can't stand this debate
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I refuse to get into these debates anymore, they go no where. I do not believe that it's possible to stimulate different regions of a single muscle. If this were possible you could shape a muscle I do believe that hitting a muscle from every angle possible will give the greatest results and best development and that muscles grow as a whole. Regardless of where you may be sore, the entire muscle will grow proportionally, not in parts. |
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Johnny, There is more to lifting and strength than just moving some weight around. You had mentioned in a previous post to Premeir that if you stop doing incline presses you would get weak and lose size. If you stop doing a certain movement your nervous system and endocrine system become unfamiliar with the stimuli it takes to achieve that press. That is why when you start a new movement or something you have not done in a long time you will shake when performing it. Luckily though or bodys adapt very quickly and you will see strenght increase rapidly usually within in a week or two. Those strenth increase are largely due to your nervous system becoming more efficient at a given movement. |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
Rauschgift
Do you really think I didn't know that already? |
| Yeah REALLY I don't think you know jack shit. To be completely honest I think my 6yo daughter has a firmer understanding of exercise physiology. I think you have a firm grasp of just about every myth that there is when it comes to weight lifting. Except you believe it to be true. IMO you should do much more reading and listening and less running your mouth. What is truly funny is how you post a question and when people try to educate you on it you argue with them. |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
Rauschgift
The whole point was to know if there wasn't something I haven't tried that would cause more over all upper chest growth. |
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Originally Posted by Pitboss
So we are on a page and half of everyone saying no you can not make one section of your chest grow. It all grows or doesn't grow at all.
It's like watering a tree. If you water only the south side will the north side stop growing??? I isolated the water and the south should be growing more than the north right?? NO it's the same freaking tree!!!! You can make your left chest bigger than your right though |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
DrChiro
So you're saying...side delt raises aren't isolating the side delts in comparision to doing just military presses? If side delt raises & bicep concentration curls aren't isolatioin exercises, than what are they? |
| And you are making my point for me. AGAIN if you had any understanding of exercise physiology you would not be asking that question. So, if you do not know what you are talking about listen to those that do. Scientia est potestas! |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
Like I said I learned all of this stuff along time ago. I'm looking for something new that I might not have tried yet.
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
DrChiro
So you're saying bicep concentration curls aren't isolating the bicep's peak compared to doing standing barbell curls? Or Side delt raises aren't isolating the side delts in comparision to doing just military presses? If side delt raises & bicep concentration curls aren't isolatioin exercises, than what are they? |
| If you knew all this info since grade nine then why are you asking questions like |
| BTW Bicep peak decelopment is genetic. Just like your concerns with your middle and upper chest is, more than likely. |
| you say you know all this stuff but your shoulder example has nothing to do with the upper/lower/middle/inner/outer chest issue. that's why i said it seemed like you needed to brush up on muscle anatomy. |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
DrChiro
So you're saying bicep concentration curls aren't isolating the bicep's peak compared to doing standing barbell curls? |
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Originally Posted by Var
I dont expect ANYONE to have knowledge when they come here. I didnt know shit when I was a newbie...I still have a lot to learn. It starts to wear on me when a person is incapable /unwilling to learn. Too many people have spent their time trying to explain this.
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there's nothing wrong with not knowing stuff. the problem is when you don't know much AND you're sure that you do.
| You can't isolate a peak. |
| I used to think he was just trying to stir shit. If you remember, when he first joined some dude from another board was bashing him saying he was a trouble maker. Now I'm starting to think he's just really dense and doesnt know any better. I dont expect ANYONE to have knowledge when they come here. I didnt know shit when I was a newbie...I still have a lot to learn. It starts to wear on me when a person is incapable /unwilling to learn. Too many people have spent their time trying to explain this. |
| If you were just wondering what exercises you could add to your routine, you should have said that. The fact is, you turned this into another "muscle shaping" debate and now you're back-peddling. I have no personal grudge against you, but it gets old to read the same thing over and over from the same person. If you already know "everything that has been said here" and are just looking for new chest exercises, dont title the thread, "Trying to fill in the inner or middle part of my upper chest". |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
Than how come if I stop doing some form of concentration curl or preacher curl for say 5 or 6 weeks & just do barbell curls & hammer curls, how come I start losing my peak to my biceps pretty quickly? & how come when I go back to doing concentration curls or preacher curls my peak returns within a couple of weeks?
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Seriously, fess up...you're writing a college thesis on something related to internet relationships, chat rooms, message board drama...something! There's no way you are for real! You go off on these diatribes in every one of your threads. Have you noticed that? |
| I think its time to start ignoring this guy. I felt bad for the beating he was taking for a while, but I really think he's yanking our chains. This is either some kind of experiment, he's really some bored pre-teen trying to entertain himself, or he has an extra 21st chromosome. In any case, I'm done. |
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one minute you say you agree with people (i.e. you cannot isolate the bicep peak) and then the very next post you're saying when you eliminate isolation exercises (i.e. concentration curls) you quickly lose your peak. pick one johnny. do you think 1) you can do certain exercises to specifically develop a peaked bicep or 2) do you think you can develop your bicep and how much it peaks or doesn't is determined by your genetics. |
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
Johnny just because some one has shitty genetics, it doesn't mean that everything is poor. Maybe they lack in legs and back, but have a killer peak in there Bi's.
Just like your instance, no exercise is going to develop a certain part of you chest, it grows as a whole muscle. Maybe your genetics (ie. muscle insertion points, don't allow for as much growth as you would like to see.) |
Gotta do the best with what ya got.
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Johnny just because some one has shitty genetics, it doesn't mean that everything is poor. Maybe they lack in legs and back, but have a killer peak in there Bi's. Just like your instance, no exercise is going to develop a certain part of you chest, it grows as a whole muscle. Maybe your genetics (ie. muscle insertion points, don't allow for as much growth as you would like to see.) |
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There is no such thing as an upper chest muscle, that is the point. It is the Pectoralis, and that is the whole chest, so therefore you can not just grow one part of that muscle by itself. |
| I think he forgot to take his Lithium. When I read through this thread in its entirety it's as if he has split personalities. The down side is none of them are good. |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
IainDaniel
I've seen guys who just do flat bench press & some pec dec. No upper chest movements. Yet their flat bench press is strong. Some ppl have told them they should be doing their upper chest as well. When they've started with incline bench for the first time they couldn't even do 165lbs on the incline bench while their flat bench press was 275lbs for a good 6 reps. Now what does that say? |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
Some ppl have told them they should be doing their upper chest as well. When they've started with incline bench for the first time they couldn't even do 165lbs on the incline bench while their flat bench press was 275lbs for a good 6 reps.
Now what does that say? |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
IainDaniel
I realize that the pectoral muscles are a whole. But if you don't do all areas of your chest lower, middle & upper, whatever areas you aren't working will simply not develop. I've seen guys who just do flat bench press & some pec dec. No upper chest movements. Yet their flat bench press is strong. Some ppl have told them they should be doing their upper chest as well. When they've started with incline bench for the first time they couldn't even do 165lbs on the incline bench while their flat bench press was 275lbs for a good 6 reps. Now what does that say? |
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Originally Posted by Rauschgift
Johnny,
There is more to lifting and strength than just moving some weight around. You had mentioned in a previous post to Premeir that if you stop doing incline presses you would get weak and lose size. If you stop doing a certain movement your nervous system and endocrine system become unfamiliar with the stimuli it takes to achieve that press. That is why when you start a new movement or something you have not done in a long time you will shake when performing it. Luckily though or bodys adapt very quickly and you will see strenght increase rapidly usually within in a week or two. Those strenth increase are largely due to your nervous system becoming more efficient at a given movement. |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
no one seems to have an answer just criticism. So that tells me something about some of you.
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| I am going to say this one more time...if you read back through this thread I have already explained how the neurological system affects strength when lifting. Your response to that post was " yeah I know I learned that when I was nine" Now here you are asking the same damn question. Is this some kind of joke or are you truly mental? I have to tell you, I am normally very patient but damn you are the true test of patience. |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
Like I already said I know that the upper chest grows as a whole.
From the beginning I've said that my upper chest has always seemed to fill out in the outer area of the upper chest & not so much in the area right below the center of your neck. You'd think that someone who can incline bench 245lbs or more & 120-130lb dumbells in each hand for incline dumbell press would be getting major OVERALL upper chest growth. |
| Pretty likely horrible shoulder strength, proper bench form on the flats dont require much in the way of shoulders. Incline also requires more arm strength, where flat bench again for me doesn't require a whole lot other than the lockout. |
| ??? WTF!!! Pretty much everyone has anwered you. The answer is NO!!! |
| How many people believe Johnny is doing inclines with 130 lb dbs? |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
nikegurl
I've seen guys do 150lb dumbbells on incline dumbbell press for 5 or more reps. |
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so have I - many times. (i used to train at Gold's Venice so i'm plenty used to seeing heavy weights being used) i'm just surprised to hear you're using the 120s and 130s when your knowledge is so "elementary" |
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I love when Johnnny posts...it's my entertainment for the day (or as long as his threads are allowed to run) But since I always want to help...let me share this: There is this new technique out of Germany...I just read about it...and it is designed to build your inner chest. Step 1: remove your clothes Step 2: sit on the edge of your bed or a chair Step 3: lean foward as far as possible, placing your head between your legs Step 4: NOW.... BLOW YOURSELF DUMBASS! did you learn that technique in 9th grade? Or was it in 9th grade that you learned to be an obnoxious, ignorant, shit? because you sure as hell didnt learn anything about bodybuilding in 9th grade...or any other grade....nor do you seem to learn anything here....even though many people on here (that I have the utmost respect for) have been kind enough to give you their time and share their knowledge with you. (damn...i'm being rude today...oh well) |
| what i think is funny johnnny is when you are given several intelligent answers you still refuse to accept them. you say people misunderstand you in almost every thread. maybe youre just a really poor communicator. please explain to me why this shit goes on ONLY in your threads, and why you continue to argue against these "intelligent & real answers" |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
DrChiro
Sorry dude I don't know that technique. But you know an awful lot about that technique yourself. I'm guessing it's your pass time when you aren't busy being an immature know it all. As for learning about bodybuilding in grade 9 I sure did. & I've learned even more. As for accepting ppl's advice here, I've accepted plenty of advice & tried new things learned in this forum. But as for this particular thread, I've only heard about 3 or 4 intelligent & real answers. The rest is hot air such as your thread. It's obvious you don't know how to answer my simple little question or you would've by now. Instead you're breathing out hot air. Either post something related to the thread & my 2 questions, or mind your own business. I think that you are someone who thinks he knows everything as that's the impression you give, but when it comes down to it you just leave replies such as this one. Again just 2 simple questions & only a few ppl had intelligent answerw & even suggested a couple of things that I could do, but I have already been doing them. |
. and wasting our time and effort. I think you just enjoy stirring up the crap you do for no good reason what so ever.| i answered your question on the second page smart guy. |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
DimebagDarrell
I mentioned that some ppl said it was a genetic thing. So you aren't one of the ppl I'm talking about. b/c I agree with you. Just as I mentioned about my traps, they get thick in the back area, but they don't get much height to them up top which is a genetic thing. |
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As for arguing all I want to know is if there's any way I can speed up the filling out area of my entire upper chest? That's it that's all. Pretty simple. & I am someone who if they stop doing upper chest movements even if I'm still doing a lot of shoulders who will lose upper chest strength & size. |
| then why the fuck are you getting all pissed at me because i havent answered your question? see your post, 4th one down from the top of this page. |
| yes, you can speed up the filling out of the upper chest. but youll have to speed up development of the WHOLE chest, not just that part. period. case closed. this has been discussed a million times with you. get it through that thick skull of yours. |
| If you know that this is a genetic thing, then what was the point of this post? Why wouldn't this same principle apply to your chest? |
| So do you believe that the shape of a muscle is genetic or not? You seem very confused... |
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Originally Posted by hithard51
johnny i would think incline dumbell flyes would help ya out. also i dont care if chest muscle is one muscle if i dont do decline my lower chest gets weaker and smaller it however does not affect my size in the middle of my chest or upper chest nor does it affect the weight i use. if the incline dumbell flyes dont work it is def. genetics i had a workout partner for about a year who had a big chest and could max a good amount of weight at 315 but his inner chest and upper chest was real small no matter what he did for it he then took roids and it helped by making his chest bigger overall and his inner chest and upper chest grew too but it was still in the same proportion as before he took roids.
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| johnny i would think incline dumbell flyes would help ya out. also i dont care if chest muscle is one muscle if i dont do decline my lower chest gets weaker and smaller it however does not affect my size in the middle of my chest or upper chest nor does it affect the weight i use. if the incline dumbell flyes dont work it is def. genetics i had a workout partner for about a year who had a big chest and could max a good amount of weight at 315 but his inner chest and upper chest was real small no matter what he did for it he then took roids and it helped by making his chest bigger overall and his inner chest and upper chest grew too but it was still in the same proportion as before he took roids. |
| How many here think hithard51 is just Johnny with a new screenname? |
You and Johnny should work out together.
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Originally Posted by hithard51
ex. doing incline presses doesnt make ure lower chest grow or get ne bigger.
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| why doesnt people just do flat for chest var? if what ure saying is true i would just be able to do 12 sets of flat and call it a day. also after im done with flat bench and go to incline my middle chest is tired from the flat workout my upper chest however is not. |
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Originally Posted by hithard51
incline trains upper chest flat middle decline lower. its simple var
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ot happy with the width of your "lats" or the peak on your biceps? Can you really perform specific exercises to improve the shape of your muscles and your symmetry? For decades legendary bodybuilders have said that you can change the shape of your muscles. However, scientifically, this has never been directly examined. Judging by the literature presented by prominent bodybuilding researcher, Jose Antonio, it is more than possible. J. Streng Cond Res. 14(1): 102-113, 2000.
While there are many different opinions by researchers and scientists.... I would probably assume that most of it is genetic, but you can aid in development of a muscle by hitting it from all angles, seeing that different exercises recruit more fibers from one area or another...
Still up in the air.
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Originally Posted by camarosuper6
However, there have been a few articles recently that offer the possiblity that shaping the muscle MAY be a possiblity.
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This has already been answered. People train at different angles for variety. We're constantly fighting adaptation which leads to plateus. We hit a muscle in different ways to "keep it guessing" and continue to grow. It in no way causes the muscle to change its shape. So whats your point? Are u asking me why some people, who dont do inclines, have weak inclines??? I cant believe I'm getting into this again... |
| P.S. Pls stop jerking off to my photo gallery. Just because I'm not a big guy, doesnt mean you can fantasize about me being your bitch. I dont swing that way. |
| Where's your comeback? Use whichever screenname you like. I know it gets confusing. |
| Thanks Johnnny! I appreciate any advice your retarded ass can provide. |
| Any chance a mod could compare dickhard and John-boys IP's? They gotta be the same person! |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
Sorry but I'm not going to supply you with any advice with your remarks.
Just out of curiosity have you every done 245 or 265lbs on incline bench press & ever used 115 or 125lb dumbbells for incline dumbbell press? Just wondering. I've seen some guys using 140's & 150's to at my gym. |
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Who gives a flying fuck whether you can do 600lbs or 50 lbs!!! Nobody gives a shit what you lift or what I lift, so get over yourself already. As long as you are getting results do whatever the fuck you want! Done and out and sick of this fucking nonsense
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| Your up in the night. This is fucking retarded. |
| I just posted an article from the AST website about muscle shaping I thought might be interesting. They are a well known and respected organization |
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Originally Posted by hithard51
lam did u ever hear ne one say i gotta do some incline presses my lower chest is really lagging?
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| Does it matter if he has heard that? When a muscle contracts, it contracts as a whole. Therefore, when you do incline presses, your "lower" chest is contracting as well as your "upper" chest. |
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Originally Posted by Rauschgift
Johnny,
There is more to lifting and strength than just moving some weight around. You had mentioned in a previous post to Premeir that if you stop doing incline presses you would get weak and lose size. If you stop doing a certain movement your nervous system and endocrine system become unfamiliar with the stimuli it takes to achieve that press. That is why when you start a new movement or something you have not done in a long time you will shake when performing it. Luckily though or bodys adapt very quickly and you will see strenght increase rapidly usually within in a week or two. Those strenth increase are largely due to your nervous system becoming more efficient at a given movement. |
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This is your answer Johnnny already posted quite a few times since page 2
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
I'm not trying to be cocky or anything, but there are a few ppl here nikegirl for one who think that I'm some weak little guy who can't even do 60's for incline dumbbell press.
I'm just setting the record straight that I'm not some weak tooth pick who doesn't know what he's doing <snip> cause I'm not & I do know many things about training techniques & dieting. |
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Johnnny, no one here is basing their opinion on your training knowledge on your physique ... there's really no need, your words speak VOLUMES as to what you know. Or don't. And in terms of comparing lifts? I think you'll find that around here a solid knowledge base, a desire to help, and a willingness to LISTEN when appropriate, all go much further toward earning respect than do 140 DB presses ... |
| It seems to me people are saying it's not really a matter of strength but that the body is unfamiliar with the movement of incline presses when they haven't been done and it just takes the body a short amount of time to become familiar with what it's being asked to do when you start incline presses. It makes perfect sense if I haven't say skated in a couple years n suddenly go I remember how to skate but it takes a while for my body to get it back. I bike a lot so my body is uniformly strong n never falters on what it is familiar with daily but throw a new movement in the mix n it takes a bit to adapt. It doesn't mean that those muscles are weak they are just unfamiliar with that specific movement. |
| Lol....so Johnnny is harassing ironmagazineforums now. hahahahaahahahah. which forum is your retard advice going to be next? |
| thread's too long man....isn't it just debating about whether you can shape a muscle? can I isolate the right half of my left pec's 5th myofibril to grow please |
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Originally Posted by Rauschgift
Johnny,
There is more to lifting and strength than just moving some weight around. You had mentioned in a previous post to Premeir that if you stop doing incline presses you would get weak and lose size. If you stop doing a certain movement your nervous system and endocrine system become unfamiliar with the stimuli it takes to achieve that press. That is why when you start a new movement or something you have not done in a long time you will shake when performing it. Luckily though or bodys adapt very quickly and you will see strenght increase rapidly usually within in a week or two. Those strenth increase are largely due to your nervous system becoming more efficient at a given movement. |
| johnnny how many buddies do you have |
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Originally Posted by Terok`Nor
johnnny how many buddies do you have
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I like this guy.
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I like this guy.
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Originally Posted by camarosuper6
Damn man, whats up with that Prem?
I just posted an article from the AST website about muscle shaping I thought might be interesting. They are a well known and respected organization. I dont know either way whether its possible or not, and do not particularly care at this point in my bodybuilding life. I am simply trying to put on as much mass and strength as I can to build me a solid founadation. |
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Originally Posted by Saturday Fever
hahahaha
upper inner chest. hahahahahaha I'd like to see someone do nothing but upper inner chest work and come back in 2 months and report the obvious. That the whole fucking chest grew. camaro rules. |
| I Summon This Threadd>>>>>>>>>> Back From The Dead!!!! |
| camaro rules. |
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Originally Posted by Johnnny
Loooooser!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| Thank you, thank you... no autographs please. |