what should I reduce? [Forum Archive]

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what should I reduce?

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Posted by: BerryBlis

Hello,

I've been thinking of changing my workouts lately because I think i might be slightly overtraining and not recovering enough. Right now I'm on a 3 day split and take a recovery/rest day on the fourth day. I usually do 2-3 parts/day and am currently doing 3-4 exercises per body part, and 4 sets/exercise with 8-12 reps so it works out to about 40 sets/workout. I was just wondering if you think it would be better for me to keep 4 sets/exercise and reduce the number of exercises i'm doing or reduce to 2-3 sets/exercise but keep 4 exercises/part?
Also, if it helps at all, i'm currently trying to add a bit of muscle mass.

Thanks a bunch!!
BerryBlis

Posted by: Robert D.

first of all if you feel "overtrained" my advice would be to take a week off from training.

rule of thumb for natural lifters is never train more than 2 days in a row.

Posted by: yellowmoomba

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerryBlis

Hello,

I've been thinking of changing my workouts lately because I think i might be slightly overtraining and not recovering enough. Right now I'm on a 3 day split and take a recovery/rest day on the fourth day. I usually do 2-3 parts/day and am currently doing 3-4 exercises per body part, and 4 sets/exercise with 8-12 reps so it works out to about 40 sets/workout. I was just wondering if you think it would be better for me to keep 4 sets/exercise and reduce the number of exercises i'm doing or reduce to 2-3 sets/exercise but keep 4 exercises/part?
Also, if it helps at all, i'm currently trying to add a bit of muscle mass.

Thanks a bunch!!
BerryBlis

Wow!! 40 sets!!! That's crazy. I would cut it down to no more the 24 sets per workout. Even at 24 - that's a lot. I try to hit my Chest and Back with 8-9 Sets, Quads with 5-6 and the rest with 3-4 sets. I also only hit the muscle once a week. For years I thought "more is better" but finally realized that I was overtraining....

Good Luck.

Posted by: Johnnny

BerryBlis

Quote:

Robert DiMaggio

Quote:

first of all if you feel "overtrained" my advice would be to take a week off from training.

rule of thumb for natural lifters is never train more than 2 days in a row.

I agree take a week off if you feel overtrained by the end of the week you'll be fully recovered but continue eating your 5-7 meals a day though.

I never train more than 2 days in a row being a natural lifter.

Try this routine, I just started it 4 weeks ago & it's working great.

Monday: Chest & biceps
Tuesday: Legs & Calves
Wednesday:Rest
Thursday: Back & Triceps
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Shoulders & Traps
Sunday: Rest

This way everything gets to rest & chest & shoulders should never be done on the same day or on back to back days as your shoulders need to be strong when doing your chest.

You also shouldn't do back & biceps on the same day as you use your arms quite a bit in regards to a lot of the rowing exercises for back, & you shouldn't do triceps on the same day as chest or shoulders as your triceps are worked a lot when you do chest & shoulders so your triceps won't be as strong when you go to train them.

40 sets a workout is way too much & will cause overtraining if it hasn't already.

For Chest I don't do more than 4 exercises & no more than 3-4 sets each exercise.

For biceps I do 3 exercises 3 sets each exercise which is perfect.

For legs I don't do more than 4 exercises & I do no more than 5 sets per exercises. For calves I do 2 exercises 4 sets each.

For back I don't do more than 5 back exercises & no more than 22 sets total for back. For triceps I don't do more than 3 exercises & 3 sets per exercise.

For shoulders I do no more than 3 exercises & no more than 4 sets per exercises. For traps I do 2 exercises 4 sets per exercise.

I hope you get things sorted out. Good luck.

Posted by: twizted110

ok Berry. everything that these guys are saying are great ideas to help you out. but if you need some ideas on some new workouts i highly suggest going out and buy a FLEX mag. they got some great workouts in there that are or have been done by some of the bodybuilders themselves. thats where i get alot of my workouts from or i take parts of one and parts from another and put them together to create a new workout.

Posted by: Johnnny

twizted110

Quote:

ok Berry. everything that these guys are saying are great ideas to help you out. but if you need some ideas on some new workouts i highly suggest going out and buy a FLEX mag. they got some great workouts in there that are or have been done by some of the bodybuilders themselves. thats where i get alot of my workouts from or i take parts of one and parts from another and put them together to create a new workout.

No offense, but I wouldn't trust the workouts in Flex or any magazine as many ppl here would agree.

Most of the time the body builder in the magazine with a routine next to his picture is just getting paid to have his picture in the magazine next to the routine which he might not even now that's how his picture is being used.

Posted by: twizted110

ok so i guess do workouts from a mag that you say can't be trusted means that i can't be trusted becuze i get all my workouts from flex.

Posted by: Johnnny

twizted110

Quote:

ok so i guess do workouts from a mag that you say can't be trusted means that i can't be trusted becuze i get all my workouts from flex.

That's not what I'm saying at all. All of us at one point or another have gotten bad training advice like me with super setting biceps & triceps. I found out about 5 weeks ago that it would cause overtraining to your arms.

But these routines are most of the time made up by the magazine writers themselves. & if anything, the routines they list are routines that they think pro's do. & most of us aren't at that level not to mention the drugs & growth hormone/insulin stack. The routine's they list for most natural training ppl aren't the best.

I've seen some routines listed done by so & so that say to do chest & shoulders on the same day. Everyone knows they shouldn't do shoulders & chest on the same day or on back to back days.

Just an example.

Posted by: twizted110

hell i could of told you 2 years ago that if you do contant supersets for arms or anything really it gonna mess you up fast. same with people saying about chest and shoulders. anyone saying to train together has no clue about the world of lifting.

Posted by: Johnnny

twizted110

Quote:

hell i could of told you 2 years ago that if you do contant supersets for arms or anything really it gonna mess you up fast. same with people saying about chest and shoulders. anyone saying to train together has no clue about the world of lifting.

Like I said I've seen these types of routines very often in Flex & other magazines.

Personally I think the bodybuilder they use is just getting paid & he may not even know what the picture is used for at times.

That's why I'm not to crazy about routines in magazines.

Yes they give good advice on certain exercises & training techniques & diet, but I wouldn't follow a magazine routine.

Posted by: yellowmoomba

Quote:

Originally Posted by twizted110

Please explain why you should not train shoulders and chest on the same day.

Posted by: Johnnny

yellowmoomba

Quote:

Please explain why you should not train shoulders and chest on the same day.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm assuming you've just started training?

Everyone should know that training chest & shoulders on the same day or on back to back days is a big no no.

When you are doing your chest, your shoulders greatly come into play. Therefore after your intense chest workout, your shoulders or delts are completely finished & they wouldn't be able to handle a full intense shoulder workout.

That is if you train your chest hard enough.

When you're doing your upper chest movements especially your shoulders get much much more involved.

So if you were to attempt to have a full blown, intense & strong shoulder workout on the same day or on back to back days as doing chest, your shoulders would not be %100 & you would not make full gains nor would your shoulders be lifting as much as they could be giving a day or 2 rest.

It's the same as training triceps on chest & shoulder day as your triceps come into play with chest & shoulders with much of the pressing. Your tricpe workout will not be %100 & your gains wouldn't be as much.

The same as working your biceps on back day. Your biceps greatly come into play when doing all the rowing exercises for back.

You just shouldn't do it.

Posted by: yellowmoomba

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

yellowmoomba

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm assuming you've just started training?

Everyone should know that training chest & shoulders on the same day or on back to back days is a big no no.

When you are doing your chest, your shoulders greatly come into play. Therefore after your intense chest workout, your shoulders or delts are completely finished & they wouldn't be able to handle a full intense shoulder workout.

That is if you train your chest hard enough.

When you're doing your upper chest movements especially your shoulders get much much more involved.

So if you were to attempt to have a full blown, intense & strong shoulder workout on the same day or on back to back days as doing chest, your shoulders would not be %100 & you would not make full gains nor would your shoulders be lifting as much as they could be giving a day or 2 rest.

It's the same as training triceps on chest & shoulder day as your triceps come into play with chest & shoulders with much of the pressing. Your tricpe workout will not be %100 & your gains wouldn't be as much.

The same as working your biceps on back day. Your biceps greatly come into play when doing all the rowing exercises for back.

You just shouldn't do it.

Thanks for your reply.

Since you are already hitting your shoulders somewhat when you are doing chest why not target your shoulders with a few other exercises on the same day and allow both your chest and shoulders to recover before you hit them again 5, 6 or 7 days later???

Posted by: P-funk

I have trained chest and shoulders on the same day before and it worked. I used to always do uper body push/pull splits or total body workouts and it worked fine too. You just have to make it work and set up the program properly.

Posted by: Johnnny

yellowmoomba

Quote:

You still don't get do you? Your shoulders are fatigued greatly after an intense chest session. If you want to train your shoulder to the max at %100 your shoulders need to be fresh.

If your someone looking to gain mass & strength, you won't be able to lift the same way you could if you do your shoulders on a seperate day. Therefore you are losing valuable growth & you will be causing overtraining to your shoulders doing your chest & shoulders on the same day or on back to back days.

Most ppl here will tell you the same thing as I've read it before more than once.

Posted by: yellowmoomba

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

yellowmoomba

You still don't get do you? Your shoulders are fatigued greatly after an intense chest session. If you want to train your shoulder to the max at %100 your shoulders need to be fresh.

If your someone looking to gain mass & strength, you won't be able to lift the same way you could if you do your shoulders on a seperate day. Therefore you are losing valuable growth & you will be causing overtraining to your shoulders doing your chest & shoulders on the same day or on back to back days.

Most ppl here will tell you the same thing as I've read it before more than once.

I get what you are saying. I was just looking for YOUR reasons not to train the two muscles together. You seem to be very opinionated in your responses.

I have had good results working my shoulders with chest for some programs and on it's own day for other programs. For me it's all about the volume. I just don't agree with your comments - "Everyone knows they shouldn't do shoulders & chest on the same day ...."

Good luck with your training.

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