-->
Pages: 1

Insulin insight required -


(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)



Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Greets,

Before I post the substance of this query, I will point out two things things. Initially, I am fully aware of the dangers of subcutaneous insulin injections - I am a type 1 diabetic, and have been for nearly 12 years (I am 20).

I have also consulted my physician in regards to the safety of taking insulin to promote gains and recovery with my workouts. So those of you who know how dangerous this practice is, wish me luck.

My objective is, on workout days, to balance my blood sugar in a normal range (70-120mg/dl) before I workout, and at some time during the course of the workout inject an amount of insulin (either at the beginning or toward the middle of the workout, which last from 20-30 minutes).

Here is where I need some helpful insight and critique. I had planned on taking, immediately post workout, 60grams of dextrose with 50-60 of additonal lower GI carbsl (oatmeal, probably) and 50 grams of protein. If this is wrong, please let me know. Should I modify any of this?

Presuming that the insulin affect begins approximately 30 minutes after the injection, and the duration continues for approximately 45 minutes thereafter, what time should I inject myself? Mid-workout? At the beginning of the workout? Should I take the carbs as soon as the insulin take affect, or before they do?

Finally, what amount of insulin is typically used for bodybuilders and others who have used it in a workout? I'd appreciate any recommendations from those who have experience with insulin as it relates to fitness.

Thanks.


Posted by: gr81

Quote:
I had planned on taking, immediately post workout, 60grams of dextrose with 50-60 of additonal lower GI carbsl (oatmeal, probably) and 50 grams of protein. If this is wrong, please let me know. Should I modify any of this?
The number of carbs really depends on the amount of slin you are taking, but its better to go over than under. What type of slin do they have you on. Usually BB use Humulin R due to its extremely short half life, but I am not familiar with what type of slin diabetes patients use so I won't comment on that. I think the rule of thumb is something like 10-12 grms of carbs/IU so if you are in that ballpark you will be fine.

Quote:
Presuming that the insulin affect begins approximately 30 minutes after the injection, and the duration continues for approximately 45 minutes thereafter, what time should I inject myself? Mid-workout? At the beginning of the workout? Should I take the carbs as soon as the insulin take affect, or before they do?
First off, never inject before you sleep which is somewhat common sense I would think. Other than that you can really do it any time of the day. The most beneficial time is post workout but there are cats that do inject before or mid WO. If you insist on doing it mid WO you need to sip on a carb/sugar drink during the training session. As a beginner I would recommend sticking with post WO seeing as how its the most beneficial, most anabolic part of your day, or if you wanna go twice, once in the morning, once post WO. The slin will take effect right away so you wanna start feeding your body right away and often. Its not wise to wait too long after the injection. Again Humulin R is the type of slin that bodybuilders use and thats what I am referring to.

Quote:
Finally, what amount of insulin is typically used for bodybuilders and others who have used it in a workout? I'd appreciate any recommendations from those who have experience with insulin as it relates to fitness.
The amount should begin relatively low (5 IUs) and gradually increase by about 1 IU, or as far as you are comfortable. I started with 7 IUs and worked up to 15 IUs or somewhere in that ball park. Again I stress the point of not getting overzealous and taking it very slow. You sound like you know somewhat what your doing but raising the amount should NOT be the focus. Its very easy to get fat taking too much too often. Everyones body is different, and I would imagine your body has somesort of insulin resistance, but be that as it may, you want to experiment what amounts are comfortable and at what point you start to feel hypoglycemic. You need to be able to recognize these symptoms and immediately address them. good luck man


Posted by: Duncans Donuts

I am on Humalog, which is (as far as Lily products go) the fastest acting insulin. It's duration of affect is typically within 2 hours after injection. I actually have done some experimentation and found that it peaks between 20-45 minutes and doesn't fully begin to escape my system until an hour and a half.
Quote:
First off, never inject before you sleep which is somewhat common sense I would think. Other than that you can really do it any time of the day. The most beneficial time is post workout but there are cats that do inject before or mid WO. If you insist on doing it mid WO you need to sip on a carb/sugar drink during the training session. As a beginner I would recommend sticking with post WO seeing as how its the most beneficial, most anabolic part of your day
Point well taken. My workouts usually last about 30 minutes, and since I have never had a blood sugar drop on humalog inside of 15 minutes (it usually hits me at about 20 minutes, as I said above) I will probably inject 15-20 minutes into my workout. I will have glucose tablets on-hand, anyway.

I will heed your advice and start lower and work my way up. My break in period to adjusting to insulin (as it relates to a workout) should be quicker than most, considering I have to deal with hypoglycemia at least on a weekly basis. Curious - what are your opinions on it's insulin's anabolic effect without combining with AAS? It is a worthwile endeavor, given the risk?

Thanks a lot for the help, man.


Posted by: Mudge

My diabetic friend can lose 80 points just in a workout, so I'd keep that in mind. I have used a glucometer also and find that my blood sugar can take a serious nosedive on leg or back day to the point I feel downright ill.


Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Typically when I workout, I am in a 100 or so range (mg/dl) with my blood sugar before I lift, and sip on a high fructose corn syrup drink throughout. Hopefully I can time the insulin with my training method so that the hit doesn't come at all, at least not until I'm downing lots of carbs post workout. I'll be sure and update with my results.

Mudge, what is your opinion on the potential benefits of using insulin?


Posted by: Mudge

Well honestly I have decided not to mess with it, and same for GH which I was considering for awhile. Where I am right now I dont need the stuff.

I have heard some people rave about insulin, and others who are very well developed (beyond myself without question) find that it gives almost no noticeable benefit.

GH/Slin + steroids though should be about as much of a monsterous stack as you can get. Keep watching your bodyfat and thats about all you can do as far as judging its worth and/or your specific useage protocol.


Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Well, at the very least I'm in a good position to see how insulin itself will work as an anabolic hormone (combined with proper nutrition, of course). I doubt anyone would use it exclusively, without AAS, unless they are a dependent diabetic. My experience in relationship to hypoglycemia and my ability to perceive when and how fast it's approaching should be quite a benefit.


Posted by: trHawT

I've heard to inject during a workout. I've also read that you need approx. 10g of carbs per unit. I'd consume a carb immediately after injecting the slin. Don't wait 30 minutes. Better to be safe than sorry. Pie filling would be the best choice of carb IMO. 3/4 - 1 can would be fine. Then, two hours later I'd consume a moderate carb, high protein meal, of course low fat (no fat if you can). I'd consume a carb if I felt really weak, at any time after the injection. Make sure you do your homework before using that shit. I might give it a shot on my GH, Sust, Slin cycle.
I've heard so much crap on how to properly use Slin. It's ridiculous. I wish there was one for sure answer.


Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts
I doubt anyone would use it exclusively, without AAS, unless they are a dependent diabetic.
Since it doesn't suppress HPTA its certainly an option for use alone, but of course stacking provides the most bennies in the shortest period of time.

As a diabetic at least you hopefully understand your blood sugar flucutations pretty well. My friend can eat 3 Triscuit crackers and end up with high blood sugar coming off LOW blood sugar. You wouldn't think 3 stinking crackers had such effects but they do.

During workout I dont know, never heard of that myself. Post workout is common, but I'd always have some soda on hand just incase shyt happened. Even then I have heard one report of someone saying they almost uncontrollably felt sleepy and could not have saved themselves if a friend were not there with them. Crap like that keeps me away, plus not a single report of great gains with the product. Humalog and Humulin-R are the two biggies.


Posted by: trHawT

My friend injected Slin one time, and he was so tired that he couldn't even open a can with a can opener. Had to have his girlfriend do it for him. Some serious shit.
Diabetic comas aint no joke.


Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Thanks for the insight everyone. It does kind of suck that there's not unified applicable theory on how to take insulin, which makes it all the more dangerous. I work at UPS and have at least one hypoglycemia spell a week. One time my blood sugar dropped all the way down to 22 mg/dl and I was still coherent. Being functional at such a low level (most people will feel dizzy at 50-60) gives me a very small window to react before things get lower - maybe 5 minutes if I'm lucky. Because of this I test my blood sugar about 10 times a day.

I will test every 10 minutes during a workout to ensure that this doesn't occur. I'll let everyone know how it goes. Thanks for the well wishes and advice.


Posted by: samat631

insulin and oatmeal are a power combo. im a type 1 diabetic too and i find this a good mix 2 hours pre wo. my friend gets jealous of how quickly i put on mass. i weigh 250 right now and im about 12-14 % bf

p.s. insulin also rapidly increases cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP found in some energy pills.. ect...)
and also nitric oxide synthesis which is why insulin gives you such sick ass pumps.


Posted by: Mudge

Make sure you guys are all aware of what kind of insulin you are talking about, bodybuilders only use short acting insulin. Oatmeal would NEVER be used in such a situation, never.

Humalog and Humulin-R are what is most commonly used.


Posted by: samat631

why never? complex carbs are great for sustaining blood sugars for workouts thats what my dietician said.


Posted by: Mudge

Of course, but if you are using a short acting insulin like a bodybuilder would, you dont want slow you want right now.

I have yet to find anyone who I would trust that has found insulin to be worth anything even modestly significant for bodybuilding.



(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)





vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38