Chest.... [Forum Archive]

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Chest....

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Posted by: R1pilot

I am currently on a cycle of 60 mg D-Bol Daily, 200mg Deca and 100 mg Winny EOD. Whether I am using or not I can get big everywhere but my chest. I have never figured this out, help?? Like I said my tri's, delt's and trap's swell up nicely but I get little results with my chest.....

Posted by: Mudge

Sounds like a nice way to rip your liver out.

Paul Demayo got ragged on for his chest genetics, thats your key word right there, genetics. If it bothers you, then dont train anything else hard but your chest until it catches up. Then when the rest of you overpowers your chest do it again. Milos Sarcev had the same problem, but with his arms, and it cost him in points and he had to leave the rest of his body on maintenance so that the arms could catch up.

Posted by: R1pilot

Is this cycle wrong?? I had many people tell me that it was a good base cycle...

Posted by: R1pilot

I am also using Legalon 70 for the liver issue. I was not able to get Nolvadex, so I am trying the OTC OXO6.

Posted by: LAM

you should always use test as a base on a cycle. and taking dbol and winny at the same time is hell on your liver...

Posted by: ZorroAzul

chances are you won't be able to get a boner even if Pamela Anderson got on her knees and blew you.... :-)

Posted by: Mudge

Your doses are high on both, how is that the base of a cycle?

Posted by: deeno

you need max 30 mg of d-bol daily, if u have the 5 mg tabs, one every 3-4 hours to keep blood levels up, for a total of 4 weeks. 60 mg is pretty high. Deca and winny will leave u with limp dick.

Posted by: LAM

also, 200 mg a week of deca is a waste...you were given some very bad info

Posted by: topolo

Its 200 eod.....not weekly

Posted by: LAM

even worse...that's between 600-800 mg/wk of deca with no test

what exactly is the point of this cycle ? because it is neither a bulking or cutting cycle, simply a poorly designed one...

Posted by: deeno

600-800 mg is a high dose of deca, u'll need HCG or ur nuts will shrink dude, also you need an anti estro, like clomid or nolva for ur PCT, especially since you are using dbol

i would get some test enan at 500mg weekly, run ur deca 400 mg weekly, and 30 mg daily of dbol, drop the winny, the more experienced guys can confirm this, good luck

Posted by: R1pilot

Ok, I can get about anything I need. You guys tell me what you think is the perfect stack. I weight 215 and have been working out for a few years. I screwed up on that dosing amount, it is 50mg winny and 100mg deca EOD. I'm not trying to hide it I am new at this and have obviously been getting crap for information. Since I am only a week into this can I just drop the D-Bol totally and keep at the same pace with the winny and deca or what.......

Posted by: deeno

what are your goals
ie. bulking, cutting

Posted by: R1pilot

Just wanting to gain a little mass

Posted by: deeno

drop the winny
test enan at 500 mg/week 1-10
dbol 30mg ed week 1-4
deca 400 mg week 1-10

HCG 250-500 IU biweekly
Nolva 20mg/day for pct for 3-5 weeks

for my first cycle i'll b runnin just test, seein wut happens
but dude definitely research what ur putting into ur body, and remember its all about diet...

Posted by: R1pilot

I had researched it and alot of people have told me that d-bol and deca were a great combination alone...

Posted by: Mudge

There are few people out there who do deca without testosterone. Lee Priest claimed his first cycle was deca, and I can think of maybe 2 people of all the message boards I'm on who dont get deca dick from running deca only cycles.

The saying test is best, is popular for a reason. Nothing like testosterone, of course with various sides trenbolone is quite awesome in itself but I still wont run a cycle without testosterone.

Posted by: R1pilot

Just tell me what is a good cycle for a starter, forget that I have the deca, winny and d-bol. What is a good mass builder with the least side effects. I am not looking to get huge, I just want a little more mass that is not gonna disappear as soon as I get of the cycle. Not saying that after the cycle I quit working out so don't say it will always go away if you quit working out. I just mean a good mild cycle with a low side effect rate and doesn't crash after you finish with it.

Posted by: JerseyDevil

Deeno's recommended cycle is right on the money. It is the classic bulking/mass stack. Winstrol is better for cutting and generally is used the last six weeks of a cycle. For your purposes, I would drop it and use it in a cutter later on. I would do the Nolva a bit differently also.

Test enanthate weeks 1-10, 250mg twice weekly
Deca weeks 1-10, 200mg twice weekly
Dbol weeks 1-4, 30mg ED
Nolvadex weeks 1-12, 10-20mg ED OR Arimidex 0.5mg EOD (A-dex preferred)
HCG weeks 1-12, 250iu's twice weekly
Nolva weeks 13 & 14, 40mg ED
Nolva weeks 15 & 16, 20mg ED

Remember to eat a LOT of calories, and at take in at least 300 grams of protein per day.

Posted by: MTN WARRIOR

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1pilot

Just tell me what is a good cycle for a starter, forget that I have the deca, winny and d-bol. What is a good mass builder with the least side effects. I am not looking to get huge, I just want a little more mass that is not gonna disappear as soon as I get of the cycle. Not saying that after the cycle I quit working out so don't say it will always go away if you quit working out. I just mean a good mild cycle with a low side effect rate and doesn't crash after you finish with it.

So eat more food then and work out. You dont need drugs for that.

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyDevil

Deeno's recommended cycle is right on the money. It is the classic bulking/mass stack. Winstrol is better for cutting and generally is used the last six weeks of a cycle. For your purposes, I would drop it and use it in a cutter later on. I would do the Nolva a bit differently also.

Test enanthate weeks 1-10, 250mg twice weekly
Deca weeks 1-10, 200mg twice weekly
Dbol weeks 1-4, 30mg ED
Nolvadex weeks 1-12, 10-20mg ED OR Arimidex 0.5mg EOD (A-dex preferred)
HCG weeks 1-12, 250iu's twice weekly
Nolva weeks 13 & 14, 40mg ED
Nolva weeks 15 & 16, 20mg ED

Remember to eat a LOT of calories, and at take in at least 300 grams of protein per day.

This is exactly what I was planning for my second cycle, except the d-bol would be 25 mg/day (since I have 50s). My question is this: since I only will weigh about 165 lbs when I start the cycle, can I use 300 mg of deca a week instead of 400? I don't want too be too shut down or suffer deca-dick any worse than I have to.

Posted by: deeno

pirate

from what i gather, i would keep the 400 mg, as long as ur using test, i dont think 100 mg more or less a week will determine whether u 'shut down' or not, just my opin though

pilot

with the cycle i mentioned u'll gain 15-20 pounds muscle easy, providing you are training and eating right (calorie intake), also providing normal genetics. u have to keep calories up not only through ur cycle but well after to keep it.

Posted by: R1pilot

Well my pics are all natural, so I think I eat pretty good. I just want to do this right or not do it at all.

Posted by: R1pilot

OK, I have checked around, I cannot get the Test enanthate. Could I substitute Sustenon, 250mg a week?

Sustenon 1-10, 250mg a week
Deca 1-10, 100mg EOD
Nolvadex 1-16 @ 20mg ED, 13-14 being 40mg ED
HCG 3-12 @ 250 iu twice a week

Posted by: deeno

test is test is test
yea u can substitute sust for enan

wut happened to the dbol, sust usually takes about three weeks to 'kick in', so u can jumpstart ur cycle with some dbol through weeks 1-4 at 30mg/day

Posted by: bigsampson

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1pilot

OK, I have checked around, I cannot get the Test enanthate. Could I substitute Sustenon, 250mg a week?

Sustenon 1-10, 250mg a week
Deca 1-10, 100mg EOD
Nolvadex 1-16 @ 20mg ED, 13-14 being 40mg ED
HCG 3-12 @ 250 iu twice a week

If you have the funds I would bump the sust up to 500 mgs week

Posted by: Mudge

Why on earth would you shoot deca EOD?

Posted by: JerseyDevil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Why on earth would you shoot deca EOD?

That's exactly what I was wondering. Dude... deca's half life is 15 days. Twice a week injections is the norm, and even once a week is sufficient.

Sust250 twice a week for 500mg/week is good.

Posted by: gr81

Quote:

So eat more food then and work out. You dont need drugs for that.

smartest post in the entire thread!

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyDevil

Sust250 twice a week for 500mg/week is good.

My first cycle was sust, and along with food it was awesome.

Posted by: R1pilot

OK, points taken. I have 500, 10mg D-Bols, I will add them in weeks 1-4. Sustenon 250 up to 500mg weekly, no problem. And didn't know the half life on deca. That's why I am here to learn from you guys. As for you , "don't do drugs" guys, do you actually know what forum you are in??? And I really don't think it is any of your business what I or any of these other guys do. Worry boutcha self.

Posted by: RCfootball87

Doesn't deca convert to nandrolone? If so, do the 19-nor-diol pro-hormones have a similar "deca-dick" effect?

Posted by: gr81

Quote:

"don't do drugs" guys, do you actually know what forum you are in???

Pal, when we hear you talk and know immediately from the get go that you don't have enough knowledge under your belt to run a cycle, thats when we say it. Nothing could be MORE important in a AAS forum than to stress the important of self research prior to juicing. You say you did research, but you have nothing factual to contribute except what random other people have told you about the shit. Not everyone should be taking steroids, its not a question of we don't think you should be taking, its that you don't know the the fucc you are doing. I am the biggest proponant of AAS, I love the shit, but if you don't have a solid level of knowledge, as well as a plan and why that plan will work, then you are just wasting your money and putting your hormone levels through unecessary stress. You can't lieten to cats that are more knowledgable then you and benefit from it, or you can be a jackass and get smart when you hear a response you don't like. either way the choice is yours, but you will learn or pay for it in the end. I could give less of a fucc about what you put in your body, and I am not worried about you. I was offering my opinion, and it just happens to be much more advanced than yours in this subject, so don't cop an attitude.

Quote:

I had researched it and alot of people have told me that d-bol and deca were a great combination alone...

thats not research, thats asking people what they think, which btw is what you are doing by posting a thread, so you don't have to raise up when people tell you something that you don't like the sound of. Do you even know what alkalation is and why its not smart to run all orals like you were? Do you even kow why they are all saying Test is best and how that would benefit you? do you even know why you are running a steroid cycle in the first place, since you stated earlier that you don't wanna "get big", you just want a little size, jesus christ.

Posted by: R1pilot

First I was not taking all orals. D-Bol was the only oral I was taking. Second, I am not looking to get HUGE, just gain a little more mass. I am built well now, and just want to see what I can get outta a cycle. The reason I was using too much D-bol was that the person I got it from thought I got 5mg tabs from him and I got 10's. I didn't mean to sound like a dick. I value all of your input. I have read plenty about the subject, but you yourself should know you can read one thing and go somewhere else and the next guys staets something completely opposite. I went with my supply guys suggestion, because he has been selling for years and answers all questions without skipping a beat.

Posted by: deeno

its all good

im gonna bump my first cycle in november, can't wait for the juice..
i've talked to some buddies who were like 170 at 18, bumped two mass cycles, hit like 200 and did a cutting cycle, after that they stopped with the juice and now are concentrating on maintaing strength yet losing body fat, point is that juice is great if u do it right, it can help u achieve goals that otherwise might not be possible, their goals were to cosmetically look good, which they do...

pilot u originally wanted 'just a little more mass' and for that all you really need to do is up ur calories and maintain training and rest. You'll gain solid mass, that you'll keep too. You don't need roids. For this test, deca, dbol cycle you'll gain a hell of a lot more then a 'little mass'...like 15 pounds of body weight, majority of it muscle...if thats what you classify as a 'little mass' then go through with it, i think you were unclear as to what your goals were, so peeps recommended that you stay away from the juice. good luck.

Posted by: Mudge

Gear or not, if you want to weigh more you have to eat more. So if you only want a "little more," then yeah you can get there naturally, course the choice is yours.

Posted by: bench

i found that deca, sust and dbol are the best stack

Posted by: hithard51

if ure only running 250-500mg of test weekly u dont need hcg

Posted by: hithard51

pilot i started first cycle month ago and im seein enormous gains im runnin 750mg sus a week with 400mg eq and 40mg dbol for first 6 weeks along with 1mg arimedex eod. i have clomid and nolva for pct. i already gained 50lbs on my bench and 20lbs im runnin this cycle for 3months and this is the end of my first month. also u should eat ne thing u want for ex. yesterday i had probly around 6000cals close to 300grms protein and i eat sdo much carbs i dont even have to countem.

does ne one know the balance between muscle and fat that u think u gain when eating alot on roids? for myself i think maybe 2/3 of the 20lbs ive gained sop far is muscle and 1/3 is fat? u guys probly dont know but do u think this is a good guess at the asmount of muscle/fat u gasin when on roids?

Posted by: Mudge

6000 calories and only 300 grams of protein? Are you eating ice cream all day?

I was doing 520g protein and typically only 5300 calories per day, that was with some donuts and corn dogs thrown in. Now and then I'd run to Burger King for a 2700-3000 calorie meal (4 double cheeseburgers and a shake) taking me to 6500 calories.

Diet know how and genetics will determine how much of that weight is water and fat, but it sounds like your diet is full of shitty food, 4800 calories of carbs and fat?

2400 calories of carbs = 600g carbs
2400 calories of fat = 267g fats

I'd change those ratios if you are really counting those calories.

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

with some donuts and corn dogs thrown in. Now and then I'd run to Burger King for a 2700-3000 calorie meal (4 double cheeseburgers and a shake) taking me to 6500 calories, but it sounds like your diet is full of shitty food.

At least we are all being honest.

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hithard51

if ure only running 250-500mg of test weekly u dont need hcg

Don't "need" it, but I would "recommend" it, especially for longer cycles.

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

At least we are all being honest.

I scaled up my calories in a short time period and had a very hard time eating like that, I came off something like 2300 calories daily, my first 'upgrade' was about 4400 or so. Eating all that in chicken/rice/oatmeal was not easy, rice and oats are full of water when you cook them making them very filling meals. I just wonder now and then if people are counting correctly, not passing judgement but I've seen people make mistakes.

As for HCG I do love it, but I didn't have any problems until I started using fina and deca, but everyone is different.

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hithard51

pilot i started first cycle month ago and im seein enormous gains im runnin 750mg sus a week with 400mg eq and 40mg dbol for first 6 weeks along with 1mg arimedex eod. i have clomid and nolva for pct. i already gained 50lbs on my bench and 20lbs im runnin this cycle for 3months and this is the end of my first month. also u should eat ne thing u want for ex. yesterday i had probly around 6000cals close to 300grms protein and i eat sdo much carbs i dont even have to countem.

does ne one know the balance between muscle and fat that u think u gain when eating alot on roids? for myself i think maybe 2/3 of the 20lbs ive gained sop far is muscle and 1/3 is fat? u guys probly dont know but do u think this is a good guess at the asmount of muscle/fat u gasin when on roids?

there is no way to determine the ratio of LBM:fat that you will gain on a cycle. but obviously the type of diet that you are following will be the biggest factor.

IMO...see-food diets are the best way to get fat while on a cycle. and by not couting calories you really aren't learning anything about how your body reacts to certain compounds at certain caloric intakes for future reference. I see guys in the gym all the time with their tank tops when they are on cycle showing off their 19-20" guns at 25% bf +. not very impressive and even far less fun when it comes time to diet. but it seem like those kinds of guys never do get lean as it takes to much effort...

Posted by: JerseyDevil

Quote:

Originally Posted by hithard51

if ure only running 250-500mg of test weekly u dont need hcg

Sorry, but that is not true. It not the amount of test, but the length of time you are using the gear. Numerous studies have show that even small amounts of supplemental test will shut down your HPTA. Progressive HRT docs are now prescribing HCG for their patients. HRT routinely only provides 75-300mg tops of testosterone per week.

I do agree that for a 10 week cycle, it probably isn't needed... but it won't hurt, and will help one keep their gains.

Posted by: R1pilot

All the info is very much appreciated. I have one last question, is Nolvadex really needed throught the entire cycle. I thought that is was needed more towards the end of it??? Could someone check these prices and tell me if they are about right?

3 amps Sustenon $24 X 7
3 amps deca $25 X 13
5000iu HCG $55 X 1
30, 20mg Nolvadex $55 X 4

for a cycle total of $768

Posted by: Pirate!

You could run a light dose of Nolva throughout your cycle to help prevent gyno and bloating or you could just keep it on hand in case symptoms of Gyno show. Nolva is most important during PCT. You will want more than 30, 20mg nolva.

Posted by: JerseyDevil

The ED nolva is added insurance that you will keep gyno issues at bay, which is a real possibility when running test and dbol (still running the dbol?). You could omit it, and only use it during the cycle if you start having gyno symptoms. If you do, you'll need to go with a 80mg or 60mg ED until the symptoms subside. Of course you will need it for a 4 week pct.

That same cycle would run me $433, $355 if I went with test enanthate. The Sust price looks good, but you are paying ALOT for every thing else. I paid $25 for 5000iu's of hcg, $60 for 2,400mg of nolva (liquid) equivalent to the 120 20mg tabs you're getting, and $180 for 40ml of 200mg/ml deca.

In Iraq though, that might be the going prices.

Posted by: R1pilot

Yeah, I figured I run the rest of this Deca out, I haven't had any Deca Dick yet. I'll catch hell if I do, wifes working here in Baghdad too. I have gained 4 pounds in the last two weeks and shed a little BF. I had used deca only, a few years back and got good results from it then also. I get my stuff from ex-yugo where my wife is from. You would figure it would be cheaper there due to the shitty economy there. My supplier was also saying that he recommends using the HCG 3000iu the week you end your cycle and 2000iu 6 days later????

Posted by: JerseyDevil

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1pilot

My supplier was also saying that he recommends using the HCG 3000iu the week you end your cycle and 2000iu 6 days later????

That's old school thinking. It is far better to run the hcg during the cycle. Also, never inject more then 500iu's at one time. Check out this thread by a doctor concerning pct.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/sh...ghlight=clomid

Posted by: Mudge

There was a guy from Africa selling those HCG amps for $7, $55 is robbery.

I prefer vials over amps any day, cheaper than you've listed, and easier to deal with.

Posted by: R1pilot

Well he will give me a 20% break if I order over 500, guess that's from screwing my brains out on the initial prices. This is the only guy I know and I guess I would rather pay more and know what I was getting. Being over here, there is not many options.

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyDevil

$180 for 40ml of 200mg/ml deca.

Lucky Bastard. I got robbed.

I don't have a "guy", though.

Posted by: pop

hey guys can u tell me y u have 2 have test with d-bol 4 first cycle cant i try d-bol 30mgs 4 4 weeks will that do out thanks

Posted by: Mudge

You can try whatever you want.

Posted by: hithard51

mudge i dide have 6000cals and around 300 grmas protein i concentrate on eating alot of carbs and the protein comes along with it i only count the protein i get from meat and dairy i do actually eat icecream cookies ne thing right now i start day off with 1000cal weight gainer shake which has 200carbs 60 grmas protein for ex. yestereday i had that can tuna mixed with pasta, leftover pasta, 2doublecheeseburgers fried chiken sandwioch large fries and large shake from mcdonalds, 4 slices pizza, and large chiken breast with past with garlic and oil. and maybe 5 glasses of whole milk throughout the day and 3 scooter pies. if u add that up i dont even think its 300grms protein but its gotta be around 700 grms carbs and probly close to 6000cals lam is right i should count everything to precise amount but i think i have a good general knowledge of how much i am consuming on a daily basis. does those figures sound accurate?

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