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Explain it to me...


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Posted by: GoalGetter

Here's the thing, and I don't mean to piss off anyone, or imply that anyone is inferior in anyway... I just don't get the whole deal with steroids, especially with women.

I am busting my ass at the gym, and I see progress, and that progress comes with a certain degree of satisfaction that I am looking the way I look because I'm WORKING HARD for it. It's the reward for a bunch of hard work. And that's what I really take pride in. So taking steroids and seeing results because of them would make me feel like a cheater in a way. Like I took a short cut.

I understand that there are different motivations for different people. My motivation is achievement, empowerment, and proving to myself that I can do something, be it getting in shape, or running a marathon, or whatever.

What I don't understand is why people feel the need to take steroids. I was reading in someone's journal all the stuff that some women take, and it was a shocker! I admit I don't know much about steroids and have only ever heard negative things about taking them, so that's where I'm coming from with this.

Taking steroids to get BIGGER or to get STRONGER than what you can achieve naturally makes no sense to me. Why can't someone just do the best they can, and feel a sense of accomplishment with THAT? I see all these contests, and all these photos, and I'm thinking it's only going to get worse and worse, these standards that other people new to the sport (this is considered a sport, right?) will have to meet or surpass. Someone will always want to be bigger, better, more symetrical, whatever...

I don't know. i just don't get the whole steroid culture and I really want to understand, so that I don't have just this one-sided negative view about it, if in fact it's not all as bad as I've always assumed it is. I dont want to take this stuff myself, because my motivations and goals are not to be that built or to compete, but I want to understand, nonetheless.


Posted by: shutupntra1n

No offense taken but if you aren't educated on them and have questions then read up on them. Juicing is a matter of different goals than yours, that's all. Alot of things we do have adverse health affects, tanning, drinking, so on. I have been there to see many bf deal with it and it is something you cannot understand until you are there. It's a simple matter of choice which is simply not for you.


Posted by: Prince

GoalGetter you are making the classic mistake, you think that because an athlete uses steroids they do not have to train hard, WRONG!

People want to see bigger, stronger, faster, more! I do not care if it's football, baseball, track or bodybuilding, streoids are used in all, and yes even in the Olympics.

Is it cheating? Well, I guess that is an ethical dilema that one must decide for themselves, but the fact of the matter is you cannot compete in most pro level sports with out drugs.

Would you pay to go see a show like the Mr. Olympia with a bunch of natural bodybuilders? LOL, I highly doubt it! We want to see HUGE freaks!


Posted by: JLB001

There are many reasons as to why some people choose to play in the chemistry set. Its a very individual thing and a personal choice that is hard to make. Once a person reaches their Natural potential they make make that decision. Natural potential meaning, they have done everything they can in regards to lifting, dieting and cardio to obtain the look they may be seeking.

If your competiting in the NPC, it is not a level playing field by any means. Nor are some of the Natty shows (to me this is cheating).

When we go to the Big shows, we expect to see HUGE Freaky people like Robert has stated. Its what makes them money and draws us in. But most of them women you see when they come off stage are not huge, like the fitness/figure and some of the female bbers.


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
GoalGetter you are making the classic mistake, you think that because an athlete uses steroids they do not have to train hard, WRONG!

People want to see bigger, stronger, faster, more! I do not care if it's football, baseball, track or bodybuilding, streoids are used in all, and yes even in the Olympics.

Is it cheating? Well, I guess that is an ethical dilema that one must decide for themselves, but the fact of the matter is you cannot compete in most pro level sports with out drugs.

Would you pay to go see a show like the Mr. Olympia with a bunch of natural bodybuilders? LOL, I highly doubt it! We want to see HUGE freaks!
Lis - I guess that's why I'm asking, because I want to understand not the scientific explanation of what they do to the body or HOW to take them (which is what the abundance of available information on the subject deals with), but why people are motivated to take them.

Robert - Thanks. No i didn't mean to imply that hard work isn't also involved if you're taking steroids or not. I just meant taking them in addition TO working hard... I must be living in a dreamland, thinking only SOME athlets use them Wow. So all this talk about pro-level athletes being publicly chastised, sanctioned and so forth in the news, is all just lip service because it's a given that pro athletes take steroids and that's just the way it is?

As for Mr. Olympia - I getcha... But that's what I mean! The standards are raised every year, and every year someone has to try to outdo someone else, and people are getting bigger and bigger and bigger (and as you said, "we want to see HUGE freaks!"), but it scares me to think what people will start looking like at these contests a few years down the line, if they look like HUGE FREAKS already!

As for WHY i want to know all this... well. If I'm going to work in the fitness industry, be it with kids or old people, or the general public, I want to be able to answer questions. If a seventeen-year-old boy asks me about steroids, I don't want to give him a one-sided, misinformed answer like, "Oh they're bad. Don't do them." You know? I want to be able to provide enough information for this kid to make the right decision for him. That's like teachers who only want to teach abstinence in sex-ed class in high school. Like Lis said, it's a personal choice.


Posted by: Prince

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
I must be living in a dreamland, thinking only SOME athlets use them Wow. So all this talk about pro-level athletes being publicly chastised, sanctioned and so forth in the news, is all just lip service because it's a given that pro athletes take steroids and that's just the way it is?
Yes, the general public also lives in dreamland thinking that pro athletes are natural. And they must maintain the lies because not only is it a felony to use/possess steroids, it's against the rules in pro sports.


Quote:
As for Mr. Olympia - I getcha... But that's what I mean! The standards are raised every year, and every year someone has to try to outdo someone else, and people are getting bigger and bigger and bigger (and as you said, "we want to see HUGE freaks!"), but it scares me to think what people will start looking like at these contests a few years down the line, if they look like HUGE FREAKS already!
It's not just bodybuiding, look at NFL football, how do you think they can play at that level of intensity each week? How do records continue to get broken every year in the NFL, or the Olympics, etc.?


Quote:
If a seventeen-year-old boy asks me about steroids, I don't want to give him a one-sided, misinformed answer like, "Oh they're bad. Don't do them." You know? I want to be able to provide enough information for this kid to make the right decision for him. That's like teachers who only want to teach abstinence in sex-ed class in high school. Like Lis said, it's a personal choice.
Plain and simple, NO teen should use steroids! There is a ton of info on the web on steroids, start searching!


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
... Plain and simple, NO teen should use steroids! There is a ton of info on the web on steroids, start searching!
Yes, but a lot of teens do things they shouldn't.

Thanks.


Posted by: Prince

My point is that is the only advice I would give a teen about steroid use, period.

That does not mean I would not answer questions about steroids, what they do, how they work, etc. BUT under no circumstances should they use them, so nothing else matters.


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
My point is that is the only advice I would give a teen about steroid use, period.

That does not mean I would not answer questions about steroids, what they do, how they work, etc. BUT under no circumstances should they use them, so nothing else matters.
I used that as an example of just someone asking about them. it was the first thing that popped into my head when coming up with an imaginary person for my example. But since we're on the subject of teens/steroids now...

Yes, of course, I would not advise ANY teen to take steroids, but since they are going to do whatever they want anyway, at least they should be given info upon which they can base the choice if they end up deciding to do it -- information on both the scientific/physical, and social/moral/legal/ethical implications (again, same as with something like sex-ed).

Anyway, to make a long story short, I understand what you're getting at. Thanks for your help.


Posted by: BoneCrusher

I want more than my natural limitation set by my genetics. I want to come in around 250 lb's and am at 215 right now. I am going to use trenbolene stacked with a few things to kill the sides and help my body keep the mass. I am going to be cautious, have a good doc monitor my health, and enjoy the gain. I have lifted and worked out and trained and reached a max of 227 pounds. I want more and am going to get that for my self … I deserve it. Hope this provides some insight for you.


Posted by: JLB001

Its sad because with teens, they can still have access to them from other fellow students and sometimes the coaches. Its all about the football game and being the best.


Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
I am busting my ass at the gym, and I see progress, and that progress comes with a certain degree of satisfaction that I am looking the way I look because I'm WORKING HARD for it.
You are indirectly stating that steroid users dont work hard, which would be hotly protested.

What it comes down to, some people just want more. Some want more to the point they are willing to trade health for it, some will make lesser compromises.


Posted by: BoneCrusher

I catch a coach giving my kid roids he will not ever be seen alive again. Fact.


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudge
You are indirectly stating that steroid users dont work hard, which would be hotly protested.
No and in a later post i said i wasn't trying to imply steroid users don't. I was talking just about myself. How I'm satisfied with the results i'm getting from JUST busting my ass, without taking anything. Though I realize how that could be misinterpreted. I'm sorry if it came across the wrong way.


Posted by: BoneCrusher

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
No and in a later post i said i wasn't trying to imply steroid users don't. I was talking just about myself. How I'm satisfied with the results i'm getting from JUST busting my ass, without taking anything. Though I realize how that could be misinterpreted. I'm sorry if it came across the wrong way.
Bare in mind that your goals prob do not include looking huge and powerful ... just well carved and healthy ... sexier even. Others may want more than that for themselves.


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLB001
Its sad because with teens, they can still have access to them from other fellow students and sometimes the coaches. Its all about the football game and being the best.
When i was in high school TEN YEARS AGO (DAMmmmnnn!), i remember some guys on my school's baseball team were doing stuff, and I believe it was facilitated by the coach himself. They were hush-hush about it, but my friend was dating one of them and I was privvy to that information. I thought it was horrible, but a) didn't know if I should tell anyone, so I didn't and b) didn't want to piss anyone off (like my friend for confiding in me with the info).


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneCrusher
Bare in mind that your goals prob do not include looking huge and powerful ... just well carved and healthy ... sexier even. Others may want more than that for themselves.
Yep. I realize that, and you're right, my aesthetic goals are more toward the "look sexy in a bikini" or "look good if I'm ever in a nude beach" type of goals. I'm just curious as hell as to why people do things, so I ask a lot of questions. Be it steroids or cross-dressing. I have an inquiring mind.


Posted by: Prince

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
No and in a later post i said i wasn't trying to imply steroid users don't. I was talking just about myself. How I'm satisfied with the results i'm getting from JUST busting my ass, without taking anything. Though I realize how that could be misinterpreted. I'm sorry if it came across the wrong way.
Depending on the level you want to achieve once you hit a platuea naturally you may change your mind. Also, if you decide to compete, even at the local and state level you will have a difficult time.

Like Mudge said, some people are never satisfied, they want to get bigger, stronger, etc. and they will go to any length to achieve this disregarding thier health.

The first year of training we all make great gains, but after that, unless you're a genetic freak, the gains come quite slow and ultimately taper off, it gets to a point of "maintenance". This gets frustrating and many resort to anabolics to continue their progress.


Posted by: Prince

Why is plastic surgery so widely accepted and okay to do, but using male hormones to alter your physique is so bad?


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
Depending on the level you want to achieve once you hit a platuea naturally you may change your mind. Also, if you decide to compete, even at the local and state level you will have a difficult time.
Heh... I'll let ya'll know if I ever change my mind, but I'm pretty sure competing isn't for me. I'd rather cheer from the audience on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
Like Mudge said, some people are never satisfied, they want to get bigger, stronger, etc. and they will go to any length to achieve this disregarding thier health.

The first year of training we all make great gains, but after that, unless you're a genetic freak, the gains come quite slow and ultimately taper off, it gets to a point of "maintenance". This gets frustrating and many resort to anabolics to continue their progress.
Which leads me to another question - would you say a lot of body builders suffer from BDD? How does one keep his/her reality in check when setting goals beyond what is naturally attainable for them?


Posted by: Michael D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
Why is plastic surgery so widely accepted and okay to do, but using male hormones to alter your physique is so bad?
Exactly. Also, why is it alright for men to take women's hormones to become a "women" and vice versa, but it isn't ok for a man to take more of what he already produces?


Posted by: JLB001

Can they make a steriod so my boobies will grow?? i don't want to pay 5K for a pair.


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
Why is plastic surgery so widely accepted...
Depends on who you're talking to... I feel strongly against most plastic surgery, at least the "unnecessary" kind. Like when a woman has beautiful, good-sized natural breasts, but insists on blowing them up to the size of basketballs. But that's just me.

And actually, I'm starting to miss my boobs (they were a huge part of my identity for so long). Where I once was seriously considering a reduction surgery, the thought of "getting them back" now suddenly doesn't seem so unappealing. However, in my case, I don't want them back because I want bigger boobs or because I want to attract more men. I just feel like I'm not myself when i look in the mirror after seeing all that cleavage for years and now suddenly NOT!

Regardless, you do make a good point, as they both related to unnaturally altering one's appearance. I think part of it has to do with educating the general public. Plastic surgery isn't illegal or banned, and it's not a substance. It's a medical procedure. Steroids on the other hand have a more negative connotation, they carry a stigma among the general public, at least that's the way it seems.


Posted by: Prince

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLB001
Can they make a steriod so my boobies will grow?? i don't want to pay 5K for a pair.
I believe that raising estrogen will cause an increase in your breasts, but I doubt you would like the side effects of higher E levels.

and seeing that you like to get lean, compete, etc., I am afraid that implants are your only option.


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLB001
Can they make a steriod so my boobies will grow?? i don't want to pay 5K for a pair.
Haha! I'm with you on that one!


Posted by: Vieope

The problem with steroids is their label imposed by the media. Anabolics are not different than a supplement.
Why use it? To achieve your goal faster, better, higher..
I really donīt care how I got the muscle. Do you? Why?


Posted by: Prince

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
Which leads me to another question - would you say a lot of body builders suffer from BDD? How does one keep his/her reality in check when setting goals beyond what is naturally attainable for them?
Do you mean "body dismorphia", if so yes I think all bodybuilders suffer this to a certain degree, obviously some much worse than others. I know I do, I started lifting weights as a young teen, and have never stopped, nor have I ever been happy with my physique, my wife thinks I am ill.


Posted by: BoneCrusher

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLB001
Can they make a steriod so my boobies will grow?? i don't want to pay 5K for a pair.
Natural is sooooo much sexier than plastic anyway. Keep it real JLB ... you look great!!!


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
Do you mean "body dismorphia", if so yes I think all bodybuilders suffer this to a certain degree, obviously some much worse than others. I know I do, I started lifting weights as a young teen, and have never stopped, nor have I ever been happy with my physique, my wife thinks I am ill.
Yeah that's what I meant, body dysmorphic disorder/body dysmorphia.


Posted by: LAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
Why is plastic surgery so widely accepted and okay to do, but using male hormones to alter your physique is so bad?
great point !

in a lot of way cosmetic surgery is several times more dangerous than intelligent steriod use...unfortunately the media as usually has blown out of proportion the known side-effects of steriod absue. and as we all know there is a HUGE difference between intelligent steroid use and abuse...


Posted by: Yanick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
Do you mean "body dismorphia", if so yes I think all bodybuilders suffer this to a certain degree, obviously some much worse than others. I know I do, I started lifting weights as a young teen, and have never stopped, nor have I ever been happy with my physique, my wife thinks I am ill.
i don't think that there is a bodybuilder on this planet that is happy with his/her physique. I think the body dysmorphia thing is even worse if you come from a 'fat kid' backround as you have been scarred by that experience and your perception about your body will always be skewed (atleast that is how it is for me).


Posted by: Prince

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanick
i don't think that there is a bodybuilder on this planet that is happy with his/her physique.
right, that is what causes one to become a "bodybuilder" IMO, at least the ones that stick with it.


Posted by: GoalGetter

I'm such a nerd. Psychologically, this (body building, lifting weights, etc) that we all do, some to a greater degree than others, is fascinating.


Posted by: Vieope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
right, that is what causes one to become a "bodybuilder"
Otherwise it would be called bodybuilded.


Posted by: Yanick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
right, that is what causes one to become a "bodybuilder" IMO, at least the ones that stick with it.
and its also why forums like these exist. as most of us, i would think, probably don't hang with other bodybuilders or anything, so we tend to want to find others that share the love of iron. as well as get educated on how to look better.


Posted by: Prince

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanick
and its also why forums like these exist. as most of us, i would think, probably don't hang with other bodybuilders or anything, so we tend to want to find others that share the love of iron. as well as get educated on how to look better.
it's defnintely a small group of people, and the fact that I do not have any "real gyms" near me makes it difficult to talk to others like me, so this place is all I have.


Posted by: Evil ANT

Man, not to plug the new issue of Muscular Development again (I've already commented on how good it is in another thread), but there's a great article in it dealing with the legal and ethical sides of steroids. I learned some very interesting things from it.

This snippet right here absolutely fascinated me as it's something I knew nothing about. I suggest you all read it:

Muscular Development
October, 2004. Page 225.
Article "Why Drugs Should be Legal"

"Oddly, in the same day in 1988 that Ben Johnson was stripped of his Olympic gold medal for that unforgettable 9.76 100-meter-sprint, American swimmer Janet Evans was bragging about the 'slime suit' she wore that she said made her swim faster. She was quite sure it had shed precious seconds off her time. This was hailed in the same press that demonized Johnson. In each case, Johnson and Evans used some kind of enhancement to make them go faster. But Johnson became the cheater and Evans was lauded as America's sweetheart. Johnson was using more or less the same drugs that occur naturally in his body; he just used more of them, and these drugs were widely available for all to use if they so wished. Evans employed high technology kept secret from the hated East Germans that was about as widely available then as the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden are today. But Johnson was banned for life because his enhancement came in a syringe."

Great wealth if information right there. I had no idea that this even occurred.


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
it's defnintely a small group of people, and the fact that I do not have any "real gyms" near me makes it difficult to talk to others like me, so this place is all I have.
I just don't know anyone else around here who is into fitness and working out, other than my trainer, and I don't wanna be hitting him up with fifty-five questions a day. And my friends and family don't really "approve" of my dedication to this (they're of the "muscles aren't for girls" mentality for the most part). That's why I'm here.


Posted by: shutupntra1n

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneCrusher
Natural is sooooo much sexier than plastic anyway. Keep it real JLB ... you look great!!!
Agreed that natural is better. In cases of severe lack of breast size it is understandable. I also agree JLB looks wonderful and outstanding as is, matter of fact, I envy her status.
BB for me has been a huge help as I was always top heavy. For the first time in my whole life after puberty, men stare at my arms and not my chest.


Posted by: JLB001

I get asked all the time what I am on. LOL. I just laugh it off. The times I hear about how you can't just do that with diet, etc...I'm like YES you can. But I have been lifting consistantly for the better part of 4 1/2 years. You do have to be very strict, I lift heavy with high reps (which freaks some peeps out), etc than those that would be on juice. They still have to work hard, but they may keep their gains a lil easier than us that don't juice plus the look that they compete with may be somewhat better than a natty. I don't want the body of a swimsuit model, I want the body of a fitness comp. like Kelly Ryan. To me it all boils down to nailing the diet and being consistant....


Posted by: JLB001

Also the temptation to take the plunge is always there just lingering around....


Posted by: Dale Mabry

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
I just feel like I'm not myself when i look in the mirror after seeing all that cleavage for years and now suddenly NOT!

Pics please!!!


Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
I'm just curious as hell as to why people do things, so I ask a lot of questions. Be it steroids or cross-dressing. I have an inquiring mind.
Nothing wrong with that, I'm the same way, although it takes skill to know who you can and can't ask, and how to word things sometimes


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudge
Nothing wrong with that, I'm the same way, although it takes skill to know who you can and can't ask, and how to word things sometimes
I don't subscribe to that idea. It's limiting. I'd rather apologize after the fact, for inadvertently offending someone than not ask at all for lack of knowing how to phrase something so as not to offend.

If I'd studied journalism, I'd perhaps be better skilled at the whole asking-questions-in-an-inoffensive-manner thing, but I didn't. Once people see that I wasn't trying to pass judgement, and was just sincerely seeking information/opinion/whatnot, it's not so bad.

And I always put a disclaimer on my questions when i think i might offend someone (as I did with my original question on this thread).


Posted by: ponyboy

I like small boobs.

That is all.


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyboy
I like small boobs.

That is all.
"Hey baby, what's your sign?"

hahhahaha! Now that i have small boobs, I've noticed that guys who like 'em are hard to find!


Posted by: Pirate!

A lady friend of mine says that steroids are cheating. She drinks daily and abuses illegal drugs. She doesn't exercise or eat well, and she is overweight. I am not big, but I am in great shape and health. It boggles my mind that she doesn't see that drinking, smoking, and snorting are "cheating", if anything is. She is taking the quick and easy route to feeling good. This stigma that steroids carries is absurd. At least people use steroids with the intent to improve themselves in someway. We all have to work hard to be in the condition we want--steroids or not. The real cheaters cheat themselves without seeing it. They just have "steroids are bad" drilled into them, so they never stop and decided for themselves. I realize that that is what you are doing right now, Goalgetter. I wish more people would wake up. Is it cheating to take Asprin when you have a headache, or to fly on a plane instead of walking? More people will die in car accidents today than people will suffer due to steroid use over all history. More people died last month due to allergic reactions to peanuts than Ephedrine killed in over a decade. Fuckin' ridiculous what people buy into, just because some one said so!


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateFromHell
A lady friend of mine says that steroids are cheating. She drinks daily and abuses illegal drugs. She doesn't exercise or eat well, and she is overweight. I am not big, but I am in great shape and health. It boggles my mind that she doesn't see that drinking, smoking, and snorting are "cheating", if anything is. She is taking the quick and easy route to feeling good. This stigma that steroids carries is absurd. At least people use steroids with the intent to improve themselves in someway. We all have to work hard to be in the condition we want--steroids or not. The real cheaters cheat themselves without seeing it. They just have "steroids are bad" drilled into them, so they never stop and decided for themselves. I realize that that is what you are doing right now, Goalgetter. I wish more people would wake up. Is it cheating to take Asprin when you have a headache, or to fly on a plane instead of walking? More people will die in car accidents today than people will suffer due to steroid use over all history. More people died last month due to allergic reactions to peanuts than Ephedrine killed in over a decade. Fuckin' ridiculous what people buy into, just because some one said so!
Thanks Pirate.

By the way, really? That many people die from peanut allergies?


Posted by: dg806

GG, just a thought here.............if you stay HOOKED into BB like you are now and continue to want to improve yourself, what happens when you hit a plateau and can no longer improve your body and you just work your ass off to MAINTAIN. Will you be satisfied?


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by dg806
GG, just a thought here.............if you stay HOOKED into BB like you are now and continue to want to improve yourself, what happens when you hit a plateau and can no longer improve your body and you just work your ass off to MAINTAIN. Will you be satisfied?
I'm not bodybuilding, just getting in shape, and when i do reach a level I'm happy with, which doesn't seem unattainable or unrealistic, I will be happy to maintain. I'm not interested in competing, modeling or anythign like that, so I don't feel a pressure to be bigger and better at every turn.

Ask me again in a few months, and let's see if I've changed my mind, but for now, that's the best answer i can give you. I want to be fit inside and out, and look good. That's it. That's all I want.


Posted by: JLB001

Quote:
Originally Posted by dg806
GG, just a thought here.............if you stay HOOKED into BB like you are now and continue to want to improve yourself, what happens when you hit a plateau and can no longer improve your body and you just work your ass off to MAINTAIN. Will you be satisfied?
Good question DG....we are often presented with going the other direction when we've hit that plateau...to me, this is where you have to weigh out the pros and cons of it.


Posted by: MaxMirkin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudge
Nothing wrong with that, I'm the same way, although it takes skill to know who you can and can't ask, and how to word things sometimes
Luckily we don't believe in any such formalities here, on IM. Right? Cause it would sure be annoying as all hell, if this turned into such a thin-skinned place.


Posted by: Vieope

Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateFromHell
A lady friend of mine says that steroids are cheating. She drinks daily and abuses illegal drugs. She doesn't exercise or eat well, and she is overweight. I am not big, but I am in great shape and health. It boggles my mind that she doesn't see that drinking, smoking, and snorting are "cheating", if anything is. She is taking the quick and easy route to feeling good. This stigma that steroids carries is absurd. At least people use steroids with the intent to improve themselves in someway. We all have to work hard to be in the condition we want--steroids or not. The real cheaters cheat themselves without seeing it. They just have "steroids are bad" drilled into them, so they never stop and decided for themselves. I realize that that is what you are doing right now, Goalgetter. I wish more people would wake up. Is it cheating to take Asprin when you have a headache, or to fly on a plane instead of walking? More people will die in car accidents today than people will suffer due to steroid use over all history. More people died last month due to allergic reactions to peanuts than Ephedrine killed in over a decade. Fuckin' ridiculous what people buy into, just because some one said so!
Great post.


Posted by: BoneCrusher

Quote:
Originally Posted by shutupntra1n
Agreed that natural is better. In cases of severe lack of breast size it is understandable. I also agree JLB looks wonderful and outstanding as is, matter of fact, I envy her status.
BB for me has been a huge help as I was always top heavy. For the first time in my whole life after puberty, men stare at my arms and not my chest.
It can be understood, but small titties are sexy too. To me anyways. Big or small ... gotta luv em all. It is that plastic bag full of junk passing as a tit that I do not like. Looks good till they're undressed and laid hands upon ... then bhaaaaaaaaaah the buzzer sounds and game over. Give 'em to me real please ...


Posted by: BoneCrusher

This is my body. I want to renovate it a lil'. I am gonna use all matter of tools to do the job and that is my business.


Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
I don't subscribe to that idea. It's limiting. I'd rather apologize after the fact, for inadvertently offending someone than not ask at all for lack of knowing how to phrase something so as not to offend.
My policy with anyone is I'd rather you ask me a question, than think incorrectly or ill of me. If you dont understand something I say or do etc, ASK. I do the same for others but people think its strange, because people typically prefer to live through white lies.


Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxMirkin
Luckily we don't believe in any such formalities here, on IM. Right? Cause it would sure be annoying as all hell, if this turned into such a thin-skinned place.
Hard to say, some people lighten up online, some get jumpy - because its hard to read into things sometimes and people get defensive.


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudge
My policy with anyone is I'd rather you ask me a question, than think incorrectly or ill of me. If you dont understand something I say or do etc, ASK. I do the same for others but people think its strange, because people typically prefer to live through white lies.
That's how I am. I'd rather ask. I'm rarely satisfied with a yes or no. I want the who/what/when/where/why, even if it's stuff other people might think twice before asking.

If I come out looking stupid for asking something, oh well. There have been others before me, and others after, so I'm not scared to ask, especially if it's something that I want to know about in order to form an educated opinion.


Posted by: nikegurl

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
I was talking just about myself. How I'm satisfied with the results i'm getting from JUST busting my ass, without taking anything. Though I realize how that could be misinterpreted. I'm sorry if it came across the wrong way.
Another thing to keep in mind is that you're a relative beginner. The progress that can be made in the first year or two of training is awesome. Some people start to consider steroids after they've been busting their asses for years and the returns are dwindling.


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudge
Hard to say, some people lighten up online, some get jumpy - because its hard to read into things sometimes and people get defensive.
Yeah. it's hard sometimes to interpret someone's intended meaning, since text on a screen lacks tone and inflection. You cant really tell sometimes if it's serious, sarcastic, humorous, condescending...


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikegurl
Another thing to keep in mind is that you're a relative beginner. The progress that can be made in the first year or two of training is awesome. Some people start to consider steroids after they've been busting their asses for years and the returns are dwindling.
People keep bringing that up - the gains/progress in the beginning and then the tapering off. I don't know how much the tapering off of progress will affect me. I am not tooo far from where I'd like to be, and I don't want to get any bigger than that when i get there, so I don't know if I'll consider it a plateau or dwindling returns then. Coming from where I started, I'd be happy just to maintain once I reach a point where I'm satisfied with my body. We'll see what's going through my mind a year from now... Maybe I too won't ever be satisfied, or will think I could look better if i just did a little more or did something different. For now, I can only attest to my current goals and state of mind.


Posted by: JLB001

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
People keep bringing that up - the gains/progress in the beginning and then the tapering off. I don't know how much the tapering off of progress will affect me. I am not tooo far from where I'd like to be, and I don't want to get any bigger than that when i get there, so I don't know if I'll consider it a plateau or dwindling returns then. Coming from where I started, I'd be happy just to maintain once I reach a point where I'm satisfied with my body. We'll see what's going through my mind a year from now... Maybe I too won't ever be satisfied, or will think I could look better if i just did a little more or did something different. For now, I can only attest to my current goals and state of mind.
I've actually gotten smaller in the clothes dept. since lifting, my weight may be the same as way back when...but the clothes are smaller.


Posted by: BritChick

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
I don't know how much the tapering off of progress will affect me. I am not tooo far from where I'd like to be, and I don't want to get any bigger than that when i get there, so I don't know if I'll consider it a plateau or dwindling returns then.
Lots of people say this, reach their desired goals and then want MORE, not saying 'you' will, but every time I reach a new physique goal I'm already working on the next one that's come to mind, it's hard to ever be satisfied!


Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
Thanks Pirate.

By the way, really? That many people die from peanut allergies?
Peanut allergy is believed to be the leading cause of severe or life-threatening food-induced anaphylaxis, causing an estimated 15,000 emergency room visits each year and nearly 100 deaths (a year). 1.5 million are allergic in the U.S. alone.

http://allergies.about.com/cs/about/a/blfaan071003a.htm


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
Here's the thing, and I don't mean to piss off anyone, or imply that anyone is inferior in anyway... I just don't get the whole deal with steroids, especially with women.

I am busting my ass at the gym, and I see progress, and that progress comes with a certain degree of satisfaction that I am looking the way I look because I'm WORKING HARD for it. It's the reward for a bunch of hard work. And that's what I really take pride in. So taking steroids and seeing results because of them would make me feel like a cheater in a way. Like I took a short cut.

I understand that there are different motivations for different people. My motivation is achievement, empowerment, and proving to myself that I can do something, be it getting in shape, or running a marathon, or whatever.

What I don't understand is why people feel the need to take steroids. I was reading in someone's journal all the stuff that some women take, and it was a shocker! I admit I don't know much about steroids and have only ever heard negative things about taking them, so that's where I'm coming from with this.

Taking steroids to get BIGGER or to get STRONGER than what you can achieve naturally makes no sense to me. Why can't someone just do the best they can, and feel a sense of accomplishment with THAT? I see all these contests, and all these photos, and I'm thinking it's only going to get worse and worse, these standards that other people new to the sport (this is considered a sport, right?) will have to meet or surpass. Someone will always want to be bigger, better, more symetrical, whatever...

I don't know. i just don't get the whole steroid culture and I really want to understand, so that I don't have just this one-sided negative view about it, if in fact it's not all as bad as I've always assumed it is. I dont want to take this stuff myself, because my motivations and goals are not to be that built or to compete, but I want to understand, nonetheless.
Don't get me started


Posted by: Prince

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoalGetter
People keep bringing that up - the gains/progress in the beginning and then the tapering off. I don't know how much the tapering off of progress will affect me. I am not tooo far from where I'd like to be, and I don't want to get any bigger than that when i get there, so I don't know if I'll consider it a plateau or dwindling returns then. Coming from where I started, I'd be happy just to maintain once I reach a point where I'm satisfied with my body. We'll see what's going through my mind a year from now... Maybe I too won't ever be satisfied, or will think I could look better if i just did a little more or did something different. For now, I can only attest to my current goals and state of mind.
the biggest drive for anyone no matter what their goal in the gym is seeing results, whether it be gaining muscle, strength or getting lean. What I mean by plateauing is when you stop seeing gains/results your work-outs become "maintenance" which turns into boredom, at least for most.


Posted by: Spitfire

I heard it referred to as bigorexia


Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Its not like you take steroids and wake up a week later with muscles and cuts. People that use steroids have to work just as hard in the gym. Matter of fact I would venture to say most of them workout harder then those not on gear. Steroids allow more volume training without overtraining. So most guys take advantage of this my working harder and longer. Steroids are not for everyone. I respect guys in the gym that workout 100% naturally. Natural guys need to realize that steroids provide an edge in the sport of BBing. Go to a natural show and then a non-tested show. The people look so different. I went to many non-tested shows before ever going to a natural show. Quite honestly I almost left the show because nobody looked nearly as impressive. Then it clicked that natural shows are a differnent ball of wax. You have to learn to respect both aspects for what they are.


Posted by: ZorroAzul

"BEING THE BEST I CAN BE" is bullshit excuse for losers. I always strive to be THE BEST, PERIOD at whatever I do, and this mind set allows me to always go beyond "the best I can be".


Posted by: Mudge

To 'summarize' I think there are generically on the outset 2 kinds of users:

Someone who thinks its an easy ticket to getting huge/cut/strong
Someone who has some yearning for more/faster than they can do naturally for any of the numerous reasons


Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Steroids without a doubt can make drastic changes in people that know what they are doing. I've seen people transform their bodies within weeks rather then years. But they have awesome genetics, know how to eat right, and workout consistantly and correctly.

I've seen guys that have cycled and look like shit. They tell you they cycle almost like bragging of thier usage and you would never guessed they used in a million years if they didn't blab their business.


Posted by: JLB001

Trojanman.....How about the ones that do cycles and get fake gear. Then think they are all that! I just laugh at those. They strut like the own the world while still looking like crap.


Posted by: ZorroAzul

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLB001
Trojanman.....How about the ones that do cycles and get fake gear. Then think they are all that! I just laugh at those. They strut like the own the world while still looking like crap.
I agree that gyms are CHOCK-FULL of characters that would belong in a comedy sit-com.... Buuuut, how do you know these guys got bunk gear??? did you ask them? test it?? more likely it is what trojan says, do idea how to cycle juice and these guys waste their time.


Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLB001
Trojanman.....How about the ones that do cycles and get fake gear. Then think they are all that! I just laugh at those. They strut like the own the world while still looking like crap.
I am sure some guys get bunk gear and think they are super roid dude....but the sad reality is there are a ton of guys out there who just get on gear because they think its the taboo wonder drug. They get acne and puff up like the marsh mellow man and look worse after the cycle then before. They don't have a clue how to workout correctly and wouldn't know how to diet if they were handed an instruction book and a video tape.


Posted by: GoalGetter

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563
I am sure some guys get bunk gear and think they are super roid dude....but the sad reality is there are a ton of guys out there who just get on gear because they think its the taboo wonder drug. They get acne and puff up like the marsh mellow man and look worse after the cycle then before. They don't have a clue how to workout correctly and wouldn't know how to diet if they were handed an instruction book and a video tape.
I know someone who did just that. The way you say that describes this guy perfectly. Clueless and looking for a miracle.



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