Making gains without adding weight [Forum Archive]

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Making gains without adding weight

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Posted by: BerryBlis

Hello,

I've been trying to put on some muscle weight for the last little while and have been following a 4 day split. I'm doing usually 3 sets per exercise and about 3-4 exercises per muscle with 8-12 reps per exercise (to give you sort of an idea of my workouts). Anyway, I've been making decent gains in my strenght, like I'm able to lift more weight however have not gained any physical weight (on the scale). What do you think the reason would be? (gaining some weight is one of my primary goals). Would it mostly be related to diet?

My current diet looks something like this:
7:30 am - preworkout - 1 nature valley granola bar, 1 scoop protein powder
10:00 (post workout) - 1 cup bran flakes, 2/3 cup just right cereal, 1 cup skim milk, 5 egg whites
1:00 - 1/3 cup dry oatmeal, 1 can tuna, 1/2 cup tomato sauce, 1 sugar free yogurt, 1 orange, 1 apple or banana
4:00 - 1/3 cup dry oatmeal, 1 scoop protein powder, 1 apple or banana, 2/3 cup corn bran cereal (without milk - these are low in sugar and high in fibre)
7:00 - 1 can tuna or 100 grams chicken breast, 2 cups veggies (steamed,brocolli, cauliflower and celery usually), 2 cups coleslaw with ff dressing, 1 cup raw carrots, 1/3 cup dry oatmeal
10:30 - 1/4 cup oatmeal, 1 cup sugar free yogurt or pudding made with skim milk
My total is around 2300 calories and 160 grams of protein. (i'm 5'6 and about 110 pounds by the way (i'm female). Is there something I should change related to diet help put on size? I'm already eating more than many of the other women on this forum it seems so I thought it would have been enough.
Anyway, let me know what you think!
thanks!
BerryBlis

Posted by: LAM

increase your cals by 10% each week until weight gain occurs. monitor your body fat every 3-4 weeks once you start gaining weight...

5'6 and 110 lbs is very light. 100-125 lbs is a good weight for a physically active woman at 5'0-5'3. so it just sounds like you have a very fast metabolism..

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Originally Posted by BerryBlis

Is there something I should change related to diet help put on size? I'm already eating more than many of the other women on this forum it seems so I thought it would have been enough.

Add more food. If you are not gaining weight it is not enough...

7:30 am - preworkout - 1 nature valley granola bar, 1 scoop protein powder
10:00 (post workout) - 1 cup bran flakes, 2/3 cup just right cereal, 1 cup skim milk, 5 egg whites

Pre-workout looks ok (you may want to increase the size though - a few more carbs?) but you should be having whey post-workout as well (instead of the the egg-whites). Also consider adding a banana in the PWO meal to help with PWO recovery.

1:00 - 1/3 cup dry oatmeal, 1 can tuna, 1/2 cup tomato sauce, 1 sugar free yogurt, 1 orange, 1 apple or banana

Add more oats and take out one of the peices of fruit. Maybe 0.5 cups oats, 4 oz tuna, 1 apple and 1 cup yoghurt. Some vegetables would not hurt either.

4:00 - 1/3 cup dry oatmeal, 1 scoop protein powder, 1 apple or banana, 2/3 cup corn bran cereal (without milk - these are low in sugar and high in fibre)

Once again, increase the oatmeal. Also add some EFA's here - some walnuts/linseeds or fish oil capsules.

7:00 - 1 can tuna or 100 grams chicken breast, 2 cups veggies (steamed,brocolli, cauliflower and celery usually), 2 cups coleslaw with ff dressing, 1 cup raw carrots, 1/3 cup dry oatmeal

Increase the protein slightly (4oz) and add some EFA's. Also increase your oats to 0.5 cups.

10:30 - 1/4 cup oatmeal, 1 cup sugar free yogurt or pudding made with skim milk

As you are really finding it hard to add mass the carbs are fine in this meal. I would add EFA's and consider mixing some CC with your yoghurt to increase the protein.

Posted by: BerryBlis

Hello,

Thanks very much for breaking it down like that. I'll definetely increase the oat measures and movie the banana to pw like you suggested. How much do you think I should increase my daily calories by at the beginning?

Thanks again for your help!
BerryBlis

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Originally Posted by BerryBlis

Hello,

Thanks very much for breaking it down like that. I'll definetely increase the oat measures and movie the banana to pw like you suggested. How much do you think I should increase my daily calories by at the beginning?

Thanks again for your help!
BerryBlis

You are welcome.

I would increase to 2500 cals at first. Add carbs and fats (especially essential fatty acids as your diet is lacking these!!) as you are getting about the right amount of protein for your weight with 160-170g/ day.

See if that helps (give it 2 weeks). If not, increase some more (same thing - carbs and fats).

Fats I would probably limit to 55~60g (0.5g/pound) a day, so after you hit this number you would want to increase carbs alone.

Posted by: BerryBlis

Hello,

That sounds good. After i reach 2500 and if nothing is really changing after a week or so what intervals should I increase by and how much? (should i increase 100 at a time or 200 or ??) Also, I do quite a bit of cardio (usually around 30-45 minutes a day with a couple of days for intervals) for the health and stress relief (and i'm pretty sedentary during the day so this sorta makes me feel less like a sloth...haha). Would a way better option just be to decrease cardio? I'd really rather keep the cardio the same and just eat more. Would this be okay?
Thanks again!
BerryBlis

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Originally Posted by BerryBlis

That sounds good. After i reach 2500 and if nothing is really changing after a week or so what intervals should I increase by and how much? (should i increase 100 at a time or 200 or ??)

At the calorie level you are eating I would probably add 200 cals every 2 weeks until you see positive changes.

Also, I do quite a bit of cardio (usually around 30-45 minutes a day with a couple of days for intervals) for the health and stress relief (and i'm pretty sedentary during the day so this sorta makes me feel less like a sloth...haha). Would a way better option just be to decrease cardio?

Yes less cardio would be better for adding mass. Doing this much cardio will be stressing your body and making gaining mass twice as hard as neccessary... But eating more (and it may have to be a lot more) will eventually work as well. With that said, you should also be having at least one day off anyway... Seven days a week is rediculous (even with your tennis goals).

Although, Shannon... Now that I think of it - I have talked to you about this level of cardio several times before now.... but it seems you did not to take my advice then... so I don't know what the difference would be this time!

Posted by: CowPimp

Originally Posted by BerryBlis

Anyway, I've been making decent gains in my strenght, like I'm able to lift more weight however have not gained any physical weight (on the scale). What do you think the reason would be? (gaining some weight is one of my primary goals). Would it mostly be related to diet?

The reason one gains strength without increasing muscle mass is many fold. First, there are the intramuscular forms of improving strength:

Increased neuromuscular efficiency is the main reason. Basically, your central nervous system is able to activate a greater number of motor units, and therefore muscle fibers, to complete the task at hand.

Rate coding is also very important. Essentially, a higher level of rate coding means that motor units have increased their firing rates, which leads to increased force generation.

Motor unit synchronization can also help. I think the name of this form of adaptation is pretty self-explanatory.

Increased rate of force generation is yet another reason. More motor units can be activated in less time. This creates a greater acceleration of the weight being moved.

Intermuscular improvements are also important. The basic idea is that your body, and more specifically your central nervous system, can coordinate movements among separate muscles in such a way that the desired movement is performed in the most efficient manner possible.

Posted by: BulkMeUp

Originally Posted by CowPimp

The reason one gains strength without increasing muscle mass is many fold. First, there are the intramuscular forms of improving strength:

Increased neuromuscular efficiency is the main reason. Basically, your central nervous system is able to activate a greater number of motor units, and therefore muscle fibers, to complete the task at hand.

Rate coding is also very important. Essentially, a higher level of rate coding means that motor units have increased their firing rates, which leads to increased force generation.

Motor unit synchronization can also help. I think the name of this form of adaptation is pretty self-explanatory.

Increased rate of force generation is yet another reason. More motor units can be activated in less time. This creates a greater acceleration of the weight being moved.

HHmmm.. thais kinda explains why i gained more strength than mass on my last bulk.

Posted by: CowPimp

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

HHmmm.. thais kinda explains why i gained more strength than mass on my last bulk.

He asked why he gained strength without gaining muscle mass. I explained how this is possible. However, I didn't say that myofibrilar hypertrophy isn't conducive to strength gains. It certainly is, but that wasn't the question he asked.

Posted by: BulkMeUp

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Hey Cow! i was not disagreeing with you. I was rolling my eyes at myself. Bad choice of emoticon. Shoulda used this one instead

sorry.

Posted by: shutupntra1n

Just some insight, I just got done bulking and gained 30 lbs in just under 3 months. 140-170. I wasn't doing any cardio and was eating over 3,000 clean cals at one point. I have a slow metabolism as well.

Posted by: CowPimp

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

Hey Cow! i was not disagreeing with you. I was rolling my eyes at myself. Bad choice of emoticon. Shoulda used this one instead

sorry.

Ah, understood. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

Posted by: jaim91

lol...seems like berrybliss hasn't posted in a while.

Emma-leigh suggested you cut down on your cardio in order to gain size, have you done that? how's the 2500 cals coming along?

Posted by: BerryBlis

Hey,

Sorry it took me a while to reply, i was at school then work all day. I know you've recommended i cut down on cardio before and I did a little, i used to do 45 minutes and i reduced it down to 30 or 35. I just have a really hard time mentally if i don't do something to get my heart rate up. It just gives me so much energy and makes me feel way better when i do weights later on.
Also, i really don't want to loose any of the cardiovascular conditioning I've done. I'd much rather just eat more than cut way back on it.
shutupntra1n what are you current stats? (like how tall are you and how much do you weigh?). 3000 is alot to eat without any cardio. Was most of the weight you put on muscle?
Thanks!
Berryblis

Posted by: Jodi

If you really don't want to cut down on the cardio then you need to prepare yourself to eat more. Mentally it can be hard, trust me I know

I went through torture to gain muscle last year because all I wanted to do was diet. I got so use to it all my life that I had a hard time eating more but I did it. I cut the cardio all together too. Now I do cardio just to maintain healthy but if I wanted to bulk again, I'd cut it out again.

The main thing is to eat healthy foods, stick to your plan, monitor your bodyfat and lift heavy.

Posted by: jaim91

awesome advice jodi!

Posted by: kpdus

"i reduced it (cardio) down to 30 or 35 minutes"

BerryBlis, what is your cardio routine?

I'm (almost) in the same boat - I don't want to give up cardio as I'm afraid of bodyfat (I'm currently at 6-7% BF, although Tanita scale shows 4.3%

), but it looks like cardio prevents me from getting any new muscle...

My cardio routine -

I'm walking/running on treadmill 4 times a week (on non weight training days) for 46-48 minutes (this includes 4 min warmup and 4 minutes cooldown).
Two days - approx. half time I walk at 4 mph, incline 3-5 (out of 10), half time - run at 6 mph, incline 3-5 (increasing during the workout).
Two days - 1 minute run at 7 mph, incline 3-5 and 8 mph, incline 3-5 - 12 runs total separated by 1 minute 4 mph walks.
Calorie expenditure as shown by the treadmill is around 680 cals, which translates into about 500 cals for me if I reduce 680 according to my weight.

After cardio I'm doing abs and stretching.

This sounds as a moderate cardio. I'm wondering if it can really affect muscle building or not.

Thank you

Posted by: Egoatdoor

B, I think your weight gain problem is entirely because you are doing too much cardio. Seven days a week of cardio is insane. To be 110 pounds, eating 2200 or whatever calories a day and not gaining weight is startling. I think you really need to decide what is more important to you. If "cardio vascular fitness" is more important, then you are going to have to live with being 110 pounds.

Posted by: BerryBlis

Hello,

Yah, I think I might have to cut down a little on the cardio, and then eat more still. I was just wondering though, when it comes to bulking in general what determines how much of what you put on is muscle and what is fat? Like, is it more about how many calories your eating over maintainence that determines it (the higher over, the more likely you willl store fat), or is it more the type of foods you are eating, or is more about just genetics? Does anyone have any idea? How many calories over maintance do you guys normally eat when your bulking?

Thanks again!
Berryblis

Posted by: jaim91

It's been like a week...have you increased the cals yet? What is your goal for weight gain? do you want to get to 130?

Posted by: Pickles

try eating sum meat grrrl

Posted by: Egoatdoor

Originally Posted by BerryBlis

Hello,

Yah, I think I might have to cut down a little on the cardio, and then eat more still.

I'm beginning to see why Emma is so frustrated. You need to cut down ALOT on the cardio.

I was just wondering though, when it comes to bulking in general what determines how much of what you put on is muscle and what is fat? Like, is it more about how many calories your eating over maintainence that determines it (the higher over, the more likely you willl store fat), or is it more the type of foods you are eating, or is more about just genetics? Does anyone have any idea? How many calories over maintance do you guys normally eat when your bulking?

There is no real right answer in how much one can eat as everyone is different in their levels of metabolism and activity levels, INCLUDING CARDIO. One who does more ( or too much) cardio will, all other things being the same, need to eat more to maintain his or her weight. But in general, if you eat significantly above maintenance, you will put on weight and some fat. but it is not good to become overly obsessive with fat levels unless you are getting ready for a competition. If you put one three pounds of muscle and say one pound of fat, will an untrained eye really notice????

I suggest you use some trial and error. If you cut down substantially on the cardio and increase some of the intensity of your weight workouts, you may find that at 2200 or maybe even a lower level, you start putting on muscle very quickly. If though, you do this and you do see your bodyfat % creeping up, then it means your calories are too high, so cut them back say 100 or 200. After some trial and error, you should eventually get a good read on where you have to be.

I'm a guy, I weigh much more than you and my caloric intake is also much higher, but for me, gradually increasing my intake over several weeks to about 400 calories a day over maintenance leads to me gaining 1/2 to 1 pound a week with very small, if any, increases in bodyfat levels.

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Making gains without adding weight

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