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don't want to kick the bucket

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Posted by: shamrock

I am going to start an insulin/gh/deca/anavar/test. propianate cycle.
Briefly: first seven days insulin (how much???) and 150 mg test. pro. Every third day for 21 days 200 mg deca. 7th day to 30th 30 mg anavar. 4 i.u. gh a day and i pill t4 per day. The author L. Rea recommends 1 i.u. of insulin per 15 lbs body weight injected twice daily. That would mean 14.5 i.u. twice daily for me. After the injection 100 grms dextrose every hour for 5 hours. That is a kilo dextrose a day. Thise just seems to be too dangerous and too much sugar. I never done insulin before but would like to try. What are your guys' thoughts?? Keep me alive!!!!

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

sounds like a wacky cycle to me...good luck

Posted by: Randy

This sounds like a Death Wish

If you don't want to kick the buck then don't experiment with things you're not familiar with.

Posted by: bigsampson

I wouldn't start off doing 1 iu of insulin per 15 lbs. You need to research insulin bro.
Hypoglycemia is nothing to play with.

14.5 iu twice daily cuz that is a deathwish. I would just leave the insulin out this go around go to diffent boards ask about insulin usage.
If you are set on using it start out light 6 ius postworkout then about 100gram of carbs. Don't try to go overboard your first cycle of slin. Beginers in my opinion should startout using only postworkout.

My freind has been using slin in his past 6 or so cycles. He never goes over 10 ius twice day morning and postworkout.

Posted by: bigsampson

puled this off of another board

Insulin: The Most Anabolic Hormone
by Grendel
Look back through picture archives of bodybuilding and you will be struck by a startling fact. In the last half-decade bodybuilders have been getting much larger much quicker. Certain professionals have added twenty pounds to their contest weight in one season, after having seemingly reached a plateau. The bodybuilding audience loves to hear that this weight gain is due to some secret drug or some newly discovered gene therapy. Elaborate theories are developed to explain these rapid weight gains and the professionals themselves are not helpful; they claim that it's the new X-brand supplement that's doing it and leave it at that.
The truth is that bodybuilders have discovered the most anabolic hormone produced by the body, insulin. Additionally, insulin has the benefit of being not only legal and over the counter in most states, but it is very cheap. A bottle costs less then thirty dollars and there is no need to worry about counterfeits. By correctly using insulin, in conjunction with human growth hormone and anabolic steroids, modern professionals have added pounds of mass onto seemingly stagnant physiques.
This chapter will give a brief overview of insulin and the methods by which its anabolic action is exerted. We will outline how to correctly and safely use insulin both to gain size and to prepare for a contest (or simply diet).
Insulin: The Overview
Insulin is a peptide hormone, secreted by the pancreatic islets of Langerhans. Insulin promotes glucose utilization, protein synthesis, and regulates the metabolism of sugar. Insulin travels until it reaches receptor sites on cells. At these sites insulin facilitates the transport of glucose and amino acids across the cell membrane to be used inside the cell for energy and protein synthesis. This is insulin's anabolic effect, not only in super-saturating the cells with nutrients, but also helping to volumize the cell.
Insulin Safety:
There are significant risks that accompany the use of insulin. The greatest risk is an over-dose of insulin, which leads to hypoglycemic shock. This is not an overdose in the typical sense of the word; in this case it means that too much insulin was administered for the amount of glucose in the bloodstream. To this end, it is important to choose the correct type of insulin and to know when it peaks and the effective period of action of the drug in your body. This information is provided later in this chapter.
The symptoms of insulin shock are easy to recognize.
· Distress is relatively rapid, usually in a matter of minutes.
· Hunger.
· Sweating.
· Cold, clammy feeling.
· Paleness.
· Trembling, anxiety.
· Rapid heartbeat.
· Feeling of weakness or faintness.
· Irritability and change in mood or personality.
· Loss of consciousness.
Treatment:
· Feed the person a source of quickly absorbed sugar. If the person is conscious, table sugar, fruit juice, honey, a non-diet soft drink, or any other available sugar source will do. If the person is unconscious, do not try to force sugar or liquid down his throat. Honey, granulated sugar, or a special capsule (such as D-glucose) containing concentrated sugars, which some diabetics carry, can be carefully placed under the tongue where it is absorbed into the body. However, this may be difficult to do.
· There is another rapid form of intervention that anyone using insulin should know about; a glucagon pen. Injectable glucagon is a hormone, normally produced in the pancreas, which has effects opposite to those of insulin. It is commonly used to treat hypoglycemia or low blood sugar. It may also be used to relax parts of the gastrointestinal tract for certain examinations. It is not a controlled substance. In the event of the onset of hypoglycemia, this emergency injection will pull your blood sugar back up. If you are using insulin, you should have one of these pens with you at all times.
Take the person to a hospital emergency room as quickly as possible. Severe insulin reactions can be fatal. Do not be afraid of getting into "trouble", the use of insulin is legal. You will certainly get a lecture about how crazy it is to use insulin, but you will not be arrested or detained in anyway.
It is extremely important to have someone who you can trust monitor you when you are using insulin. They should be aware of the signs of insulin shock as well as the course of action to follow in the event that you do slip into a hypoglycemic state. Some insulin users will go so far as to purchase a medic alert bracelet that indicates them as a diabetic in the even that they pass out in public.
During a bulking phase, when calorie intake is deliberately high, insulin shock is not likely to be a problem assuming that post injection nutrition is precise (as outlined later in the chapter). In the even that you begin to feel any of the above symptoms immediately begin to consume the most simple sugars you can find, particularly look for glucose polymers and dextrose. Avoid fructose, as it is ineffective at raising blood sugar levels rapidly.
In the even that you are using insulin in dieting, do not be afraid to "blow your diet" by eating candy if you feel your blood sugar getting dangerously low. Your diet is not worth your life.
Types of Insulin:
There are three important characteristics that differentiate the available types of modern insulin. To properly use insulin in bodybuilding it is important to know the following characteristics:
Onset:
the time it takes the injected insulin to reach the blood stream and begin to work.
Peak:
the time period in which the insulin is working it's hardest to lower the blood sugar.
Duration:
the length of time the insulin will be working in the bloodstream. It is important to remember that insulin is an indiscriminate storage hormone. It doesn't care if its storing fat or glucose. Therefore fat intake should be as low as possible during the effective period of the insulin in the body. This will help prevent excessive fat gain.
For bodybuilding purposes we will only be concerned with three types of insulin; Humalin "R", Humalin "N" and Humalog are the most useful types of insulin. The other varieties are mixes of the above types in set ratios.
Humalin "N" is the longest acting insulin; it is active in the body for 24 hours. Additionally, it peaks several times throughout the day. Humalin "N' is useful in the high calorie off-season when there will always be an abundant supply of glucose. However, even the most dedicated bodybuilder who is eating many small meals may run into serious trouble in the insulin peak corresponds to a period of low blood sugar. Also, the long duration of Humalin "N' means that the bodybuilder must adhere to a low fat diet throughout the day, which is incongruously with the eating necessary to achieve brutal size.
Humalin "R" is known as the rapid insulin. The manufacturers claim that this type of insulin is active in the body for up to six hours; in reality it's closer to four and a half hours. The onset time of "R" is roughly thirty minutes and the drug peaks in one and a half to two and a half hours after injection.
Humalog is the fastest acting insulin. It has duration of about 2 hours, peaks in fifteen minutes, and is ideal for bodybuilding purposes because it is out of the body quickly. The speed at which Humalog works is beneficial because it allows us more precise control and lets us know exactly when food needs to be consumed.
Insulin Injection Procedure:
Insulin can be injected intravenously, intramuscularly, or subcutaneously. Injection insulin into the veins is creepy, but safe. However, it is not necessary to do this, as injection insulin into muscle or under the skin is just as effective.
The injection site, exercise, and the accuracy of the dosage measurement, the depth of injection and by environmental temperatures, can affect insulin absorption. To obtain consistency in daily insulin absorption and action, you should vary injection sites within the same anatomical region. The abdomen provides an excellent area for consistent absorption of insulin, whereas the leg and arm areas are often affected more by exercise. Repeated injection in the same area may cause a delay in absorption whereas massaging the site of injection may lead to an increased rate of absorption. Insulin should be injected at a 90-degree angle using an insulin syringe (25 unit, 30 unit, 50 unit, or 100 unit size) or with an insulin pen. If redness, pain, or lumps are noted at the injection site, this area should be avoided until the problem goes away.
Be sure to follow proper sterilization procedures. Wipe down the injection area with alcohol. The insulin needle is very thin so bleeding should be minimal. However, press a swab of cotton soaked in alcohol over the injection site after you withdraw the needle. This will protect almost entirely against infection.
An increase in blood flow to an injection site will increase the rate that insulin is absorbed. So, exercise will cause insulin to be absorbed more rapidly, because blood flow has increased to the exerted muscle groups. You will need to either inject less insulin or eat more carbohydrates after exercise. Rubbing the injected area increases blood flow, and hence, absorption.
Post Injection Meals and Supplements:
Depending on the onset time of the insulin type you are using you have varying lengths of time in which to ingest the post-insulin meal. Generally your post insulin meals should follow these guidelines.
· 60-80 grams of a good quality protein powder. Whey protein is ideal. This is taken immediately after the injection.
· 7 grams of simple carbohydrates (not fructose as it does not raise blood sugar quickly enough) per IU of insulin injected. Every 15-20 minutes after the first shot, take a few glucose tablets. This is will increase the amount of glucose available to your body for storage.
· 200 mg of chromium picolinate (this is optional).
· 200 mg of lipoic acid (this is optional).
· 30 mg vanadyl sulfate (this is optional).
· 2000 mg of hydroxy citric acid (this is optional).
· 5-7 grams of creatine monohydrate. This is crucial.
· 5-7 grams of glutamine powder. This is also crucial.
The total amount of insulin that you will be using daily is roughly 15-45 IUs depending on how many carbohydrates you can eat that day. During dieting periods, the total amount of insulin will be greatly reduced.
Typically, three injections of insulin are used daily. The first is taken immediately upon awaking; this is an appropriate time to use the Humalin "R". The second shot is taken mid-day and Humalog is recommended. The last injection is taken immediately after the workout of the day. If you are doing a double split training program, then take one shot after each workout and adjust your other injection accordingly. Do not take an injection too late at night; you want to be able to stay awake through the entire period of action so you can monitor yourself for signs of low blood sugar.
Anyone who is going to use insulin should take some time to familiarize him or herself with the glycemic index. The glycemic index is a ranking of foods based on how they effect the body's blood sugar levels. There are many resources that provide elaborate listing of many types of foods including fast foods. For our purposes it is merely important to identify the foods with high glycemic index scores to consume with the insulin injection. Below is a list of foods (or sugars) that scored very highly on the glycemic index.
Whole Foods or Candies
· Jelly Beans
· Dates
Sugar types
(in ascending order; Maltose elevates blood sugar the most)
· Lactose
· Honey
· High fructose corn syrup
· Glucose
· Glucose tablets
· Maltodextrin
· Maltose
Conclusion
For many, insulin may seem like the perfect bodybuilding drug. It's legal, cheap, effective, and easy to obtain. However, the decision to use insulin is not one that can be made lightly. At worst, the misuse or abuse of anabolic steroids will probably result in no more than elevated liver enzymes and a host of undesirable cosmetic side effects. Improper use of insulin will result in much more serious consequences, including death. Bodybuilders must first ask themselves if they possess the necessary maturity and intelligence to responsibly use this hormone. Look before you leap my friends.

Posted by: Mudge

Oh no, the insanity of L. Rea strikes again.

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamrock

I am going to start an insulin/gh/deca/anavar/test. propianate cycle.
Briefly: first seven days insulin (how much???) and 150 mg test. pro. Every third day for 21 days 200 mg deca. 7th day to 30th 30 mg anavar. 4 i.u. gh a day and i pill t4 per day. The author L. Rea recommends 1 i.u. of insulin per 15 lbs body weight injected twice daily. That would mean 14.5 i.u. twice daily for me. After the injection 100 grms dextrose every hour for 5 hours. That is a kilo dextrose a day. Thise just seems to be too dangerous and too much sugar. I never done insulin before but would like to try. What are your guys' thoughts?? Keep me alive!!!!

how many cycles do you have under your belt ?

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

I am a type one diabetic, and can assure you that anyone who takes insulin shots who is not a diabetic is completely insane, and probably a moron.

I can't describe the feeling that you get when your brain nearly starves to death.

Posted by: Randy

I don't know much about diabetes, but common sense would tell me that one would have to be moron to screw with insulin shots when its not needed for medical reasons. I did have a grand mother who was a serious diabetic that required daily insulin shots... Man.. that was no picnic in the park I'll tell ya.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

I am a type one diabetic, and can assure you that anyone who takes insulin shots who is not a diabetic is completely insane, and probably a moron.

I can't describe the feeling that you get when your brain nearly starves to death.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

I am a type one diabetic, and can assure you that anyone who takes insulin shots who is not a diabetic is completely insane, and probably a moron.
.

That is sort of being a hypocrite. Most of our balls probably work just fine but we choose to supplement our bodies with added Testosterone. There is obviously a bonus to adding more Test otherwise we wouldn't be doing it. Just like there is a reason that BBers supplement slin. If it wasn't doing them any good they wouldn't do it. Don't get me wrong I'm sure its very dangerous to use slin unless you really know what your doing, but then again BBers inject themselves with hormones our bodies do not even make.

Posted by: bigsampson

bumpin the trojan. What up trojan I knew that I had seen you around somewhere, see ya around LOI

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Comparing insulin to testosterone is like comparing apples and oranges. They are both hormones, yes, but an overdose of insulin will kill you. Prolonged overdoses of test may eventually kill you, but there is no margin of comparison.

And I don't know how that is being hypocritical. I'm in a position that anyone who doesn't take insulin to live can't understand. I don't care if someone kills themselves with insulin (by all means, if you want to use it, use it), but I can give you my analysis, having gone into hypoglycemic comas, that I hope some will benefit from. Anyone who takes it for bodybuilding uses is a fool. Even experienced users can easily mess it up.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Whats up Big Sampson? Yeah I hang out here a lot...but I'm diggin LOI.

Hey Duncans I know that comparing the dangers of slin to test is a little far fetched. Obviously slin is more dangerous for anyone to take. The only point I was trying to make is that you said anyone that would use slin that doesn't have to is a fool....same can be said for guys using test when they make plenty of their own. I'm not trying to start an argument. I agree with you 100% that slin is dangerous....but it obviously helps out those who use it otherwise they wouldn't use it. From my understanding Slin is a great idea if your running GH.

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Quote:

The only point I was trying to make is that you said anyone that would use slin that doesn't have to is a fool....same can be said for guys using test when they make plenty of their own.

I disagree... I require the stuff to live, and it's almost killed me dozens of times, including on the freeway, with an ex-girlfriend, and in my sleep. The pain is a unique kind of agony that is difficult to describe.

So from my vantage point, regardless of theoretical benefits, anyone who takes it that doesn't have to is a complete fool:

One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
One who acts unwisely on a given occasion

That said if you're gonna take it, take it, but be prepared for the potential consequence.

Posted by: Randy

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563

That is sort of being a hypocrite. Most of our balls probably work just fine but we choose to supplement our bodies with added Testosterone.

But we do this as an added bonus for our women

There is obviously a bonus to adding more Test otherwise we wouldn't be doing it.
There is...more sex from our women

Just like there is a reason that BBers supplement slin.
Never heard of that

If it wasn't doing them any good they wouldn't do it. Don't get me wrong I'm sure its very dangerous to use slin unless you really know what your doing, but then again BBers inject themselves with hormones our bodies do not even make.

Sure not I... My motto is "No Needles"

never never never

Posted by: Mudge

Yeah, a little test or deca isn't going to kill you where slin can. I would not recommend it to anyone, but for anyone who did it, I would not be unsupervised.

We had a rash of about 3 people known on the boards who "woke up dead" around a year ago. I believe only one was suspected suicide. For the very minute benefits MOST people report from slin, I would not bother at this point in my personal development.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Hey Duncan I agree that people that use slin are taking a huge chance. I would not use it unless on GH. Since I'm not rich that ain't happening anytime soon. Anyhow my Uncle died from diabetes. I've watched him suffer and die. He went blind, lost a leg, and eventually his kidneys and liver went south. Then he died. It was a hard thing to watch happen and for that reason I wouldn't be in any big hurry to get on slin.

Posted by: bigsampson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

Comparing insulin to testosterone is like comparing apples and oranges. They are both hormones, yes, but an overdose of insulin will kill you. Prolonged overdoses of test may eventually kill you, but there is no margin of comparison.

And I don't know how that is being hypocritical. I'm in a position that anyone who doesn't take insulin to live can't understand. I don't care if someone kills themselves with insulin (by all means, if you want to use it, use it), but I can give you my analysis, having gone into hypoglycemic comas, that I hope some will benefit from. Anyone who takes it for bodybuilding uses is a fool. Even experienced users can easily mess it up.

I am no diabetic and have no idea what its like, but I know a lot about it. It is very dangerous. I give slin to my patients all the time. And, I would not just go out and incourage its use unless your a type 1 diabetic. I have seen people in a hypoglycemic state. Point blank NO one that is inexperienced unknowledgeable about slin should use it.

Posted by: bigsampson

Most slin users I know don't check there blood sugar. If you just have to use please just go out and buy an accucheck monitor (may cost a little change but its better than losing your life).

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

For the love of crumcake, if you are going to shoot insulin, test your blood sugar every 15-30 minutes for 6 hours after the injection.

Posted by: Mudge

Yep, get a glucometer. Some people report just about passing out completely with no control even when following "internet guidlines" on slin and sugar levels, its risky business for shit gains as far as I have seen.

Posted by: DOMS

Duncan Donuts, I've got a story that you may appreciate.

My friend has had diabetes since he was five years old (type one, I think). One day he decides to try and freak me out by slamming his needle into his stomach.

So, I told him a joke.

Posted by: Randy

This does not make sense

Unless you mean that making him laugh from your joke will cause the needle in his stomach to do something that he might not appreciate

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfs3

Duncan Donuts, I've got a story that you may appreciate.

My friend has had diabetes since he was five years old (type one, I think). One day he decides to try and freak me out by slamming his needle into his stomach.

So, I told him a joke.

Posted by: DOMS

Yep. He had the needle in his ab and I told him a joke that made him laugh.

I've know him for 21 years. We're friends, so we do this stuff to each other.

Posted by: Pirate!

One should also consider that abusing insulin greatly increases one's chance of becoming type II diabetic. Then, you have to live with it forever (if you live).

Posted by: Randy

I worked with a guy about 10 years back that was a type 2 diabetic.
He was only like 30 some years old at the time, and a really nice guy.
The problem was he was way overweight and didn't seem to take care of himself.
He was off work quite a bit running back and fourth to the doctors. He would get frequent infections on his feet. They had to operate and he was on crutches. Then a few months down the road they said he contracted gang green and had to amputate his foot. Then a few months after that he died. His kids found him slumped up against his computer.

I'll tell you, nobody would ever want to be a type 2 diabetic....

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

There is no evidence that taking insulin will increase one's chances of becoming type 2 or insulin dependent...

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

There is no evidence that taking insulin will increase one's chances of becoming type 2 or insulin dependent...

But there is plenty of evidence linking elevated levels of insulin (often due to a poor diet) to insulin resistance, which is now widely considered to be the first stage of the development of type II diabetes. I didn't say that it would make you dependent upon exogenous insulin.

Posted by: Randy

I wouldn't want to be the first to create such evidence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

There is no evidence that taking insulin will increase one's chances of becoming type 2 or insulin dependent...

Posted by: Randy

Pirate...

Can you do me a favor and remove those god damn donuts from your avatar...they're making me hungry

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

yup...hyperinsulinemia is associated with insulin resistance and type II diabetes

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy

Pirate...

Can you do me a favor and remove those god damn donuts from your avatar...they're making me hungry

Done!

Posted by: musclepump

Ice cream!

Posted by: Randy

Pirate ...you're an evil man

Now I say "SCREW THE COTTAGE CHEESE!" I'm going to eat Pirates
avatar

Posted by: BIGCOCKnBANGKOK

when i used to fall off my diet and binge on cake/ice cream id take a 10 iu shot then go to bed. done that hundreds of times. i thought it would make more muscles but this makes you fat because i used to eat junk everynite and not use insulin and stay where im at. but then if i use insulin during the day i get so hungry i just cant stop myself from eating everything in site. so maybe if your dead set on using insulin , you need to take it closer to bedtime and only have things like bananas and apples around you so eating junk isnt an option. or you could try an appetite suppressant. or you could save yourself from becoming a big fatass and just not use it. insulins not dangerous as long as you can get to food, but it is worthless if you get superhungry off it. my opinion

Posted by: BIGCOCKnBANGKOK

oh yea there was another thing i noticed too. novolog { by novo dordisk, lets you sleep very nicely. {without sleeping meds} now that i cant get that, only humalog, that shit makes my heart race so i end up needing the meds to sleep anyway which in a way , for me , is defeating the purpose { id rather sleep with insulin/carb binge then sleep pills}. ive taken 10 iu shots out of the blue while not even on an ' insulin cycle' and have done ok, so youd live thru 15 iu but itd just be overkill. 10 is plenty at once,. which you can do 4 or 5 times a day and still be ok { ive done}. i wouldnt do that much insulin everyday for long peroids, 2 weeks is good.

unfortunately, youl live

Posted by: medicinemanrp

Just a few things about insulin use. First of all, I am a Liscenced nurse, and I give insulin to and monitor about 12 diabetics a day. If you really want to kill yourself, go ahead and use it....without knowledge. I have seen quite a few patients end up near death because another nurse administered the wrong dose, or didn't give enough. Isulin does work for bodybuilders, as it is a very anabolic substance. But you must know what you are doing first, or you WILL kill yourself. Insulin kills in part, because the person usually goes to sleep due to the low blood sugar. Then, because the insulin is still circulating in the body, it (Blood Sugar) continues to drop lower and lower, and the person does not know this because they are now asleep (And hence, cannot take in any sugars to counteract the effects of increased insulin). Now they are in a diabetic coma, and CANNOT wake up, and sugar levels continue to fall. Lastly, they wake up...at the pearly gates of heaven.
Does it work for bodybuilders? Yes! Have I, as a bodybuilder, ever used exogenous insulin? I'm not going to say. But it DOES work! I'll write more later. Right now I'm just getting home from work and am ready for bed.
Oh, and by the way, never inject insulin at a 90 degree angle, this could push the tip past the fat layers of the body, where you want it. Inject at a 45 d angle.

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