Planning a first Real Cycle [Forum Archive]

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Planning a first Real Cycle

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Posted by: Purdue Power

I am planning out a first real cycle of Sust/Dbol and wanted to make sure that the info that I have gathered so far was accurate.

I am planning on taking the Dbol for only the first couple weeks, until the Sust kicks in. I will prob just take 40mg/day of the Dbol and start at about 400mg Sust a week split into two injections until it kicks in, then up it to 500mg a week in two injection/week.

I will probably throw in some Winni for the last 3 weeks or so to do some minor cutting at the end. Total, I am planning on doing 10 weeks total.

I want to rotate my injections throughout, not just in the ass. I will have my Nolva and some Arimidex on hand throughout, just in case. I already have some HCG on hand from my M1T stent, so I will hit some of that too.

Should I use Clomid for pct, or will Nolva be enough?
Any other comments are appreciated. Thanks for the help.

Posted by: LAM

I would use dbol/enan or dbol/cyp before dbol/sust. IMO sust is way overrated, it's cheap and readily available and that's why a lot of people use it. it's also harder to keep blood level concentrations steady vs using enan or cyp...

Posted by: lnvanry

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

I would use dbol/enan or dbol/cyp before dbol/sust. IMO sust is way overrated, it's cheap and readily available and that's why a lot of people use it. it's also harder to keep blood level concentrations steady vs using enan or cyp...

I agree with LAM. I used 40mgof dbol and 500mg/week of test E my first cyle which I am still on. I picked on 17lbs in four weeks. Body fat only went from 5% to 6.5%. I have been told be almost every source that dbol/test E is awsome for first time dramatic resluts.

Posted by: JerseyDevil

There must be something about the word "Sustanon" that is enticing

. Get test enanthate or cyp, do 500 mg/wk (250mg twice a week), and drop the dbol back to 30-35mg a day.

I used 20-30mg m1t ed w/4ad three different times, all with very good results. 30mg of Naposims ed easily surpassed m1t. Don't go overboard on your first cycle.

Posted by: Purdue Power

As far as time btw cycles, is it the same as with ph/ps's? (Being time on including pct = time off)

Posted by: Mudge

For generically hoping to recover, yes.

Doing less sustanon waiting for it to "kick in" is backwards thinking. The less you do, the longer it takes for blood levels to build.

This is how and why front loading became popular, and you are doing backwards of that. 40mg of dbol is to me a lot, so you dont have to do less sust just waiting for it to work. 40mg is not a lot for someone who is 280 lean pounds, but for someone who is doing a first cycle its a lot, I dont even use that much.

Posted by: Purdue Power

What would be a safe/low/still effective dosage for dbol then?

Posted by: LAM

20-30 mg/ED for 4 weeks...

Posted by: Mudge

Last time I did naposims even a mere 25mg a day works great.

Posted by: Purdue Power

What exactly are naposims? I have seen the term several times, but don't know exactly what it means.

Posted by: JerseyDevil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

What exactly are naposims? I have seen the term several times, but don't know exactly what it means.

Romanian dianabol.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=32422

Posted by: Purdue Power

What about my pct? Will Nolva be ok or should I run more?

Posted by: Purdue Power

Also, would running Winny for the last two weeks of my Sust be ok to cut minorly and get rid of some of the water retention?

Posted by: Mudge

Diet gets you cut and dumps water retention. Winny not being a water gain steroid, is often used in cutting cycles.

Posted by: Pirate!

I don't know much about the viscosity of various oils, but pinning a cc of sust through a 25 g pin was a real pain yesterday. Too fugin' thick. I finally pulled it out of my glute and stuck my thigh so I could put more pressure on the plunger. You might want to opt for 23 g if you are planning on hitting the glutes. Maybe Organon is thicker than others.

Posted by: redspy

Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

I don't know much about the viscosity of various oils, but pinning a cc of sust through a 25 g pin was a real pain yesterday. Too fugin' thick. I finally pulled it out of my glute and stuck my thigh so I could put more pressure on the plunger. You might want to opt for 23 g if you are planning on hitting the glutes. Maybe Organon is thicker than others.

Did you warm the oil before injecting?

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by redspy

Did you warm the oil before injecting?

No. I will next time, though. Didn't think about that.

Posted by: lnvanry

What will warming it do?

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnvanry

What will warming it do?

decrease the viscosity making it easier to push through the pin...

Posted by: Purdue Power

I am still wondering about my pct. Will Nolva alone be enough? Or should I go with Clomid instead. I know about the possible sides of clomid, but I didn't know for sure if it was more effective with a real cycle. Most of my knowledge is based on ph/ps's.

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

I am still wondering about my pct. Will Nolva alone be enough? Or should I go with Clomid instead. I know about the possible sides of clomid, but I didn't know for sure if it was more effective with a real cycle. Most of my knowledge is based on ph/ps's.

the ONLY way to find out which one is better for you is to try nolvadex one time and clomid the next...

Posted by: Purdue Power

Well, I had a lot of success with Nolva after my M1T cycle, and I have been told that that shuts you down worse than about any AAS. So I should just stick with Nolva, huh?

Posted by: Purdue Power

I need have some Arimidex on hand too, shouldn't I?

Would someone only run T3(or like products) on a cutting cycle, or would one be able to run it on a bulking cycle to keep bodyfat down?

Posted by: Mudge

Dale Mabry used T3 on a bulker for that reason, I think 25mcg per day but not sure.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Pirate I fill my bathroom sink about 2 inches deep of the hot water. I let my deca and test e stand up in the sink for about a minute while I get the alcohol wipes ready and my syringe and pin ready. Then pull out off the water dry off with towel...swab the top with alcohol pad. Draw desired amount and the switch to a smaller pin and shoot....the warmer oil seems to go in much easier since it thins out the oil....I didn't have problems with the test e but the deca is thick shit...and it really helps.

I am going to start T3 next week and I am currently on a bulking cycle. wanting to only add LBM and so far I have dropped 3% bodyfat in a month. I am hoping to see home great results on while on the 6 weeks of T3. I am going to drop calories quite a bit and jack up on the cardio. I'll let ya know how it works for me.

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Dale Mabry used T3 on a bulker for that reason, I think 25mcg per day but not sure.

yup...I use T3 on bulking or cutting cycles. bulking I go from 25-50 mcg/ED and cutting from 50-100 mcg/ED...

Posted by: Purdue Power

Did you get your T3 from IBE?
And what should I do for pct off of the T3?

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

Did you get your T3 from IBE?
And what should I do for pct off of the T3?

nah..I like to use tabs for T3. when you come off T3 some like to use ECA, etc. for several weeks...

Posted by: Purdue Power

What would be a good length to use the T3? And at what point in the cycle should I use it?

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563

Pirate I...

Thanks for the tip, TM. I'll warm it in hot water from now on. I'd rather keep the pins as small as possible.

Doesn't AAS shut your thyroid down some? I always hear of people using 12.5-25 mcg T3 on bulking cycles just to keep normal levels.

Posted by: Purdue Power

Sorry, yet another question to throw on the pile. I was wondering if Arimidex or Femara was better, because there is a $5 difference in the two and I didn't know if there was even a difference in effectiveness.

Posted by: Purdue Power

:bump

Posted by: BIGCOCKnBANGKOK

i think when you try to push oil thru a 23 or 22 guage needle all thats ''fidgeting '' is bad for your muscles. i think it causes scar tissue. i use 20 guage, 2 pins for everyshot and i think the sharpness on a pin is the same on a 20 as a 23 as long as it hasnt gone thru a stopper or scraped the bottom of an amp. if youve ever had to use an insulin needle more then 2 times youll realize how the guage matters very little and how such a tiny needle could use so much force to get in. ive had years to think this over and started using the bigger ones, fidgeting just cant be good for you. your thumbs at an awkward position because the syringe is filled up and your hand is all shaky- id rather suffer a little more with a bigger guage.

Posted by: LAM

it definetly depends on the gear...I use a 25 g and push oil through it no problem, no pain...

Posted by: Mudge

Letro supposedly penetrates fat cells better, so thats what I use.

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

I've heard that it can effect the level of thyroid hormone but I never heard that it shuts it down. I would be interested to know if it raises or lowers it. I think in some cases it can raise the levels....If anyone knows for sure on this please chime in. I am going to go up to 75-100mcg if I can handle the dose. I want to lose as much fat as possible while on it. I have plenty of LBM so I don't have to worry too much about getting "small" while on T3 during a bulker.

Posted by: Pirate!

Well, I plan to add T3 towards the end of my bulking cycle and cut cals back to maintenance so I can cut a little fat before PCT. I don't know much about it, but I thought that using AAS can lower your thyroid's output, which is why many people run small doses of T3 even while on bulkers--just to keep levels normal.

What's the science on it LAM?

Posted by: LAM

anabolic steroids can lower thyroid binding globulin (TBG) decreasing total T3 and T4 levels. this most likely will not effect free T3. people take supplemental T3 as a precaution, to help keep bf under control and to help muscle protein metabolism...

Posted by: Pirate!

Thanks LAM. You said,

Quote:

yup...I use T3 on bulking or cutting cycles. bulking I go from 25-50 mcg/ED and cutting from 50-100 mcg/ED...

Do you take that much while bulking to increase protein metabolism then? On a 12 week cycle do you run T3 the whole time? Seems too long to me.

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

Thanks LAM. You said,
Do you take that much while bulking to increase protein metabolism then? On a 12 week cycle do you run T3 the whole time? Seems too long to me.

I usually don't start the T3 for 4 weeks, until the long esters have kicked in...

Posted by: Pirate!

gotcha.

Posted by: Purdue Power

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

I usually don't start the T3 for 4 weeks, until the long esters have kicked in...

So you run it from week 4 until the end of your cycle? ~8 weeks total -or less?

What is the longest that you would want to run it without increasing the risks of messing yourself up?

Posted by: Purdue Power

Also, would a ass, quad, delt, pec injection rotation work? I was planning on doing 250-300mg twice a week for the Sust and 25mg/day in 2 doses of Dbol. Should I up the Sust or should that be good?

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

Also, would a ass, quad, delt, pec injection rotation work? I was planning on doing 250-300mg twice a week for the Sust and 25mg/day in 2 doses of Dbol. Should I up the Sust or should that be good?

Bro you don't need to rotate that many sites if your only shooting twice a week. You can and its probably not a bad thing, but you just want to avoid shooting in the same spot more once a week. I'm shooting twice a week and only shooting in my quads and delts...I'm thinking of just shooting quads for the remainder of my cycle...I love the ease of quad injections.

Posted by: Purdue Power

Correct me if I am just misinformed on this, but if I keep injecting in the same couple of spots, won't those areas grow proportionately more than everything else? My quads are already pretty massive and I was wanting to hit my chest a few times. If it doesn't really matter where it goes, then I might as well hit the easy spots(ass & quads) but if I will get more out of the sites that I inject, then I want to hit a couple more spots.

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

Correct me if I am just misinformed on this, but if I keep injecting in the same couple of spots, won't those areas grow proportionately more than everything else? My quads are already pretty massive and I was wanting to hit my chest a few times. If it doesn't really matter where it goes, then I might as well hit the easy spots(ass & quads) but if I will get more out of the sites that I inject, then I want to hit a couple more spots.

localized growth via site injections is a myth...

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563

I'm thinking of just shooting quads for the remainder of my cycle...I love the ease of quad injections.

Ditto. So easy, and so many spots to hit.

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

Also, would a ass, quad, delt, pec injection rotation work? I was planning on doing 250-300mg twice a week for the Sust and 25mg/day in 2 doses of Dbol. Should I up the Sust or should that be good?

Looks good to me. You will find the spots you like to hit the most. 250 sus twice a week is plenty just be patient and it will catch up.

Posted by: Purdue Power

Wow, I had never heard that localized growth was a myth. I had heard that it was overhyped, but never that it was complete bullshit. I am glad to hear that. It makes everything so much easier.

Posted by: Purdue Power

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

So you run T3 from week 4 until the end of your cycle? ~8 weeks total -or less?

What is the longest that you would want to run T3 without increasing the risks of messing yourself up?

:bump

Posted by: TrojanMan60563

Hey Purdue site injection growth only appears to grow due to swelling or large amounts of oil being injected....there are a lot of guys only doing glute injections....if site injection growth were true there would be a TON of guys walking around with monster asses.

Posted by: Purdue Power

What dosage of Femara should I run throughout to combat bloating? I will prob just run it during my Dbol phase.

Posted by: Tha Don

i've heard that 0.5mg is a good dose to stop bloat, this is the dose that i plan to use on my 1st cycle

peace

Posted by: Mudge

For adex .5mg is a bit high unless the androgens are high, .25mg ED or EOD should be a good place to start. If BP becomes a problem though there are other things to look at.

Posted by: Purdue Power

What about the dosage for femara?

Posted by: Mudge

Letro .625mg ED or 1.25mg EOD or E3D should be fine.

I watch my BP I dont pay attention to looking bloated or anything like that. I use it mainly for keeping gyno away and nothing more.

If your diet is out of whack you will bloat anyway.

Posted by: Purdue Power

Thanks for the dosage info. What about the length for the T3 cycle?

Posted by: Purdue Power

Any more input on the length of the T3 cycle while on a bulking cycle?

Posted by: Purdue Power

What is that standard dose of 1 Dbol tab? A couple good friends of mine gave me all their leftover tabs and they weren't for sure what the dosage was for them, but they said it was whatever the standard tab dose is. They weren't sure if it was 40mg of 50mg per tab.

Posted by: Mudge

5mg, 10mg, 25mg Reforvit-B, 50mg for IP. 5mg is the most common.

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

Thanks for the dosage info. What about the length for the T3 cycle?

As long as you want. I have heard of over 4 months.

Posted by: Purdue Power

If you take it for that long, does it take longer for your thyroid levels to normalize once you are off?

Posted by: Mudge

One study showed patients returning to normal after a maximum of 5 weeks, from 3 years use.

Posted by: Purdue Power

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

5mg, 10mg, 25mg Reforvit-B, 50mg for IP. 5mg is the most common.

So if they said that they were either 40 or 50mg, then they would prob be 50's?

Posted by: Purdue Power

So I have been thinking a lot about my pct, and is it safe to assume that if my pct for M1T went very well, that I should do about the same for my pct off of this cycle?

Posted by: Purdue Power

:bump

Posted by: Purdue Power

Any info on pct? I have read the sticky on pct, but I didn't know if I should run the same pct that I did off of M1T since it went so well and M1T shuts you down worse than the real deal.

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