Lats not growing, overtraining? [Forum Archive]

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Lats not growing, overtraining?

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Posted by: ihateschoolmt

Am I over training if I do 4 sets of pull ups, 4 sets of pull downs, and 4 sets of V grip rows? My lats haven't grown at all and everything esle has.

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

yes

Posted by: ihateschoolmt

so should i do just pull ups and pull downs or what?

Posted by: ph8bringer

Well pullups and pulldowns are really the same movement, just using a different aparatus. I suggest you keep the pullups and the rows, for some variety. Or, you could use high and low rowing machines, instead of v-grip rows, but only 2-3 sets on each. But if they aren't available to you, I'd say just pullups/pulldowns (one or the other but not both) and v-grip rows would do fine.

Posted by: lnvanry

What about a pull-over machine...likie Natilus.

This exercise is to lats as leg extensions are to quads.

Posted by: Mudge

Less pull up/downs, rows are a mainstay IMO.

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnvanry

What about a pull-over machine...likie Natilus.

This exercise is to lats as leg extensions are to quads.

A movement I can live without? Sweet!

Nice for the serratus though.

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt

Am I over training if I do 4 sets of pull ups, 4 sets of pull downs, and 4 sets of V grip rows? My lats haven't grown at all and everything esle has.

12 sets is not that much for 1 of the 2 biggest body parts, you could do more. personally I would do more free weight work. lat training is very difficult, with out a good mind/muscle connection most just spin their tires. you need to go HARD and HEAVY when it comes to training back, you should be completely spent after the training session. finish up your training with a couple of sets of db pullovers and a good 30-60 sec hanging stretch on the pull-up bar.

Posted by: camarosuper6

I personally think its overtraining. I do a minimum of 4 and a MAX of 8 total for back.

Posted by: Tha Don

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

yep

personally i'd drop the pull-downs and add in straight barbell rows (the don of back exercises IMO), like mudge said rows are mainstay, pull-ups and pull-downs is pretty pointless as they are the same thing, do 1 not both

peace

Posted by: sabre81

i had a problem with my lats not getting stronger/bigger. I was over training, doing about 14 sets. i dropped down to about 10-12 and there was a noticeable difference in size/strength.

Posted by: CowPimp

If you are going to complete failure on every single set, then yes, it is probably overtraining. If you stop short of failure on all of your sets, except maybe one or two, then you should most likely be fine. However, I definitely think rows need to make their way into your routine somehow.

Posted by: Flex

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

lat training is very difficult, with out a good mind/muscle connection most just spin their tires.

you need to go HARD and HEAVY when it comes to training back

you should be completely spent after the training session.

first part, absolutely. make sure you're pulling with your back and not arms/shoulders. feel your shoulder blades the entire time doing the work.

second part, i think thats where most people go wrong. they go TOO heavy and can't isolate using their back. Go ONLY as heavy as you can with perfect form.

thrid part, most definitely.

Posted by: Flex

btw...

start deadlifting.

Posted by: Mudge

I would probably not agree with "perfect" form, but you certainly dont want to be having sex with the bar doing bent over rows.

I do some good mornings on a seperate day, but my normal back routine if you take out the shrugs, is lately 8 sets. Counting shrugs I used to go as high as 18 sets, around a year ago.

Last week:
4 sets bent over rows
4 sets of standing barbell shrugs
2 sets of pullups
2 sets of chins

Good mornings again on my last day of the week (finishing legs as well).

Posted by: Flex

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

I would probably not agree with "perfect" form, but you certainly dont want to be having sex with the bar doing bent over rows.

that's what i meant. Don't use 100% perfect form, use about 90-95%

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

I do some good mornings on a seperate day, but my normal back routine if you take out the shrugs, is lately 8 sets. Counting shrugs I used to go as high as 18 sets, around a year ago.

Last week:
4 sets bent over rows
4 sets of standing barbell shrugs
2 sets of pullups
2 sets of chins

Good mornings again on my last day of the week (finishing legs as well).

No deads?

Posted by: Robert D.

this probably has more to do with you not knowing how to work your back, it is a very difficult bp to train, for one you cannot see it and two it's easy to pull alot of weight using your biceps rather than your back.

focus on lighter weight and building the mind/muscle connection with your back, once you have that down increase the weight again.

maybe get with someone more experienced to help you with proper form and to teach you how to truly pull the weight with your back rather than your biceps.

Posted by: CowPimp

I've been told to "pull with your elbows." This has helped me a lot. I can row a pretty decent amount of weight now.

My lats suck, but I think it's just genetics. In general, my push muscles develop better strength and size than my pull muscles.

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I've been told to "pull with your elbows." This has helped me a lot. I can row a pretty decent amount of weight now.

yup...the best way to focus on this is to imagine touching your elbows together behind your back on your reps

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flex

No deads?

Who needs deads? Nobody. Kara Bohigan and many others dont do full deads until 4 weeks out from a meet. Good mornings hit my erectors great, I dont need deads. I used to do rack deads from time to time, dont need 'em.

My back has gone from one of my most embarrassing parts, to one of my best.

Posted by: vellanator

When it comes to cable rows, the wide grip bar really hits areas of my back that I know I wasn't training until I started doing that excercise.

As mentioned in earlier posts, you have to be careful that you're training your back and not your biceps on this one.

Posted by: ihateschoolmt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flex

btw...

start deadlifting.

I do deadlifts and on back day but I didnt know it worked your lats so i didnt put it on my post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

maybe get with someone more experienced to help you with proper form and to teach you how to truly pull the weight with your back rather than your biceps.

I have worked with Emily Holder, I don't know if you have heard of her, she's a natural amateur. So I don't think it's my form.

Thanks or all your help everbody.

So new rutine could be
deadlifts 3 sets
pull ups 3 sets
Bent over rows 3 sets
shrugs 3 sets, sound good?

Posted by: Uzi9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

yes

Posted by: Flex

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt

I do deadlifts and on back day but I didnt know it worked your lats so i didnt put it on my post.

They don't work your lats, but it's one of the best, if not THEE best ex's you can do

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt

So new rutine could be
deadlifts 3 sets
pull ups 3 sets
Bent over rows 3 sets
shrugs 3 sets, sound good?

looks great, although your traps will already be fried from deads, so you may wanna throw your shrugs onto shoulder day...

Posted by: Robert D.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt

I have worked with Emily Holder, I don't know if you have heard of her, she's a natural amateur. So I don't think it's my form.

not necessarily form, but actually pulling with your back and not your arms.

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