tren cycle info needed from the pros [Forum Archive]

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THE LOOP DIURETICS
There is never a reason that any athletes would need or want to use drugs from this family. That being the case why are the drugs from this family the most popular among bodybuilders? The answer is easy. Bodybuilders are extremists, and they think the most potent drugs are automatically the drugs of choice. Unfortunately, so-called experts who also give the drugs from this group a positive review have verified this opinion to them. Let me tell you, they are wrong, wrong, wrong. These drugs have caused more hospital trips and bad and embarrassing cramping episodes than the other two groups put together. Also I've never ever seen these drugs do anything positive for a bodybuilder and those who were fortunate enough using these drugs to escape harm usually always regret using drugs from this family because their entire physique looks worse instead of better. I will explain why below.
The diuretics from this family are the most powerful diuretics, and are short acting diuretics. Examples include furosemide, better known as lasix, and its analogs, such as bumetanide and piretanide. Even stronger drugs from this family often used only with racehorses have found their way into the athletes drug arsenal. This of course is a colossal mistake. For all intents and purposes these drugs are similar to the thiazides but are quantitatively greater in effect. Unlike the thiazides however, drugs from this group also cause profound losses of calcium. Being by far the strongest and most potent of the diuretics these drugs are usually prescribed for the most severe conditions of acute heart failure, pulmonary edema, and hypercalcemia of the life threatening nature. The drugs from this family cause massive changes in fluid balance. Severe electrolyte depletion can occur with the loop agents especially with higher doses and a restricted sodium intake. This is obviously a situation which would be common to bodybuilders should they choose to use the loop agents. Earliest warning signs are very intense cramps usually beginning in the legs. Athletes using loop agents and experiencing this effect should consider this a warning sign of imminent danger ahead.
Unlike the thiazides, loop agents cause a decrease in serum levels of calcium and magnesium because of an increased excretion of both. These conditions are known as hypocalcemia and hypomagnesemia respectively. Intense cramps caused by this effect are painful warning signs of more extreme trauma ahead. Extremely low levels of calcium in the blood can lead to muscle tetany, where the muscles feel locked in a cramped and contracted position and could even tear away from the bone. So important is calcium in the blood that only 1% of calcium in the body circulates in the blood while the other 99% is stored in the bones etc. in order to control the delicate calcium ratios which must be maintained. Calcium can be considered the patriarch of all the electrolytes and in a hypocalcemic situation a cascade of negative and life threatening events can occur.
Because the loop agents cause indiscriminate losses of all the electrolytes every dangerous situation of individual low levels of particular electrolyte imbalance is a possibility. We've already discussed the calcium and magnesium related problem potential but the loop agents also cause losses of potassium and sodium, two situations that are life threatening and have already been discussed elsewhere. Because these agents act so swiftly and powerfully, effecting all electrolytes either directly or indirectly, extreme hypotension often occurs. (low blood volume) When left unchecked this condition can and has caused a reduction of blood volume to the point of circulatory collapse. This is another of the possible ways that Momo Benaziza may have died. In regards to the situation of hypovolimia the physician's desk reference warns that since rigid sodium restriction is conducive to both hyponatremia (too low of serum sodium levels) and hypovolimia (too low of circulating blood volume) strict restriction of sodium intake is not advisable in patients receiving the loop agents. This is yet another scientific explanation to keep a high sodium intake in the diet of a pre-contest athlete. The use of loop agents just makes the situation worse.
Often athletes for some unnecessary and foolish reason stack the loop agents with other diuretics. Obviously this only increases the potential for tragic complications. The thinking here is that the athletes would need less of each drug if they combine the two together and hence, they can avoid serious consequences. At best this is just wishful thinking. Remember when discussing the thiazides that very low doses were efficient even for medical reasons. Therefore combining the loop agents with other diuretics in order to not have to use, as much is faulty logic since an athlete should be getting results with small doses anyway. The other reason this is a bad idea is because of the indiscriminate nature of the effect of the loop agents. The loop agents will cause electrolyte depletion both inside and outside the muscle cells. This obviously causes smaller, flat muscles, which will be difficult to respond to peaking strategies like carb, or fat loading since crucial electrolyte balance is compromised, and thus so is normal metabolic processes.
Indeed the physicians desk reference warns that if loop agents are combined with other diuretics, other diuretics dosage must be reduced by 50% as soon as loop agents are added in order to prevent an excessive drop in blood pressure. When blood pressure continues to fall total discontinuation of other agents is necessary to prevent serious consequences. And remember this is in medically prescribed situations where there is a severe edematous problem to begin with.
The bottom line on the use of loop agents is that they are totally unnecessary for bodybuilders before a contest. At best they will make your body look worse, usually flat and soft because of extreme electrolyte depletion; and the worse case scenario is that this family of drugs could cause serious and immediate life threatening consequences via a number of different causative metabolic pathways. Simply because athletes think the stronger drugs are automatically better does not make it so, and in the case of the loop agents this is a ridiculous notion.

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Quick Overview
Active Life: 6-8 hours (Diuretic effects)
Drug Class: Loop Diuretic (Oral)
Average Dose: 40-80 mg total in a 12 hour period
Acne: No
Water Retention: Obviously not
High Blood Pressure: No
Liver Toxic: Unknown
Aromatization: Not applicable

Lasix is a brand name for the drug furosemide, a very potent diuretic. Technically it belongs to a class of drugs known as loop diuretics, which will cause the body to excrete water as well as potassium, sodium and chloride. Loop diuretics are among the strongest such drugs available, having an extremely dramatic effect on fluid levels in the body. Potassium levels need to be particularly watched, Lasix greatly increasing the amount excreted. The use of a prescription potassium supplement therefore is often required to keep levels in balance, otherwise a serious heart complications might develop. Mistakes in potassium dosage have equally serious consequences, so Lasix is clearly a risky item to use. But when an athlete needs to shed water, it is very difficult to find something that works better.

Athletes use diuretics for a couple of specific purposes. Competitive athletes use these drugs to drop water weight, in an effort to make adjustments in their weight class standings. Since the weigh-in is most often a day or days before a competition/match, one can drop their bodyweight considerably and be back to normal within hours after rehydration. This logically seems to provide an unfair advantage, the athlete competing at a much heavier weight than believed. This advantage is only offset by the now near universal nature of this practice. Bodybuilders also rely heavily on diuretics when preparing for a contest. It can efficiently lower subcutaneous water concentrations, helping to produce that super-ripped look so common on stage today. Make no mistake; a winning look is extremely difficult to obtain without some form of diuretic.

This drug is prepared as both an oral tablet (usually 20-40mg per tablet) or IM/IV injection solution, the injection being much more rapid in effect. The dosage and method of administration is tailored to the individual, dependent on the desired goals and condition of the athlete. Tablets are the most common form of administration. Each oral Lasix tablet becomes effective about 1 hour after ingesting and will remain active for an additional 3 or 4 hours. The athlete will usually start with a mild dose, and add to this amount accordingly later in the day. The initial dosage is usually 20 to 40mg, with the maximum amount usually not to exceed 80mg. The user will attempt to calculate the optimal dosage, and determine the best intake schedule in relation to the show or competition. In order to minimize the side effects associated with this drug, it is generally used for no longer than a few days.

Since Lasix has such a strong effect on electrolyte and potassium levels, it is much safer to addition a potassium sparing agent like Aldactone® (spironolactone) than it is to keep increasing the amount of Lasix used. A combination of 50mg Aldactone® and 20mg Lasix would be a good starting point, having roughly the effect of a 40mg Lasix tablet without the notable potassium loss. This dosage is repeated 2-3 times during the day and the effect judged to determine the optimal dosage. It is important to remember that these drugs can be active for many hours. It can become difficult to control the dehydrating effect with an overlapping schedule, so one should be careful not to administer such diuretics too frequently.

Lasix is no doubt one of the most dangerous drugs a competitor will use. This can be seen on occasion when severe dehydration and electrolyte imbalance takes the life of an ambitious athlete. Warning signs that Lasix may be causing severe dehydration include (not limited to) dizziness, cramping, vomiting, diarrhea, fainting and circulatory disturbances. Potassium depletion can be marked as well, so as discussed users often opt to take a prescription potassium supplement, also with its own set of dangers. One should use extreme caution when considering using Lasix or other diuretics; they are certainly not needed for recreational users.

This product is widely available. It is manufactured and sold under many different brand names, in many countries. No version of Lasix (or any other diuretic) is currently being counterfeited. When found on the black market it can therefore be trusted. Although it is doubtful these will circulate, make sure never to purchase the 500mg tablets. These are used only in severe medical conditions, and contain a dosage that could prove fatal to a healthy person.