CKD Diet [Forum Archive]

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CKD Diet

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Posted by: w8lifter

Okay, while searching for stuff for MBC's thread, I came across this...yes, I stole it from another board, but it was just to good to not post. If someone is interested in starting a CKD, this article tells you exactly how to do it.

The Mr.X CKD Manual

I would like to dedicate this to Bart, without him I would not be writing this nor would I be the person that I am today.
So, you want to start a CKD. Now, what the hell is a CKD you ask? Well, a CKD (cyclo-ketonic-diet) is simply a diet that consists of two cycles: low/no-carbohydrates and high-carbohydrates. How do these two come together to actually make a diet, simply stated: they do, that’s it. But, to be serious. A Ketonic diet is something that we all hear from Atkins, which is basically High-Fat, Moderate-Protein and Low/No-Carbs. Yet, this type of diet, although very effective for the average Joe, is not sufficient for a bodybuilder’s (weightlifter’s) needs.
Why? Well, once your muscle glycogen is depleted, your workouts become a pain in the ass, you are sluggish and muscle loss can occur. (due to the fact that no insulin is present in the system, there will be NO muscle gain while in Ketosis) Because, the main goal of Ketosis is to have no glycogen in the liver so glucagon can be released. (yada yada yada yada, well I don’t think anyone cares about the technical aspect, so I’ll get to the point)Basically, it all boils down to the following: Day 1-6 you eat High-Fat/Moderate-Protein/Low-No-Carbohydrates, then Day 7 you eat HIGH-GI carbohydrates and low-fat, in order to achieve supercompensation and refill muscle glycogen. (this will ensure quality training throughout every CKD cycle you do)
Mr.X, can you please just shut-up and give us some information on setting up a CKD.
YES, I can-------
Setting up a CKD (6days Ketosis/1day Carb-Up)
First-off, let’s figure out your BMR (basal-metabolic-rate). Take your weight and multiply it by 12=daily calorie intake without a deficit.
(100lb person) Example: 100lb x 12cal= 1200cal…1200cal=BMR
Everything I put forth will revolve in one way or another around your BMR, so listen up.
6/1 ratio (6 days in ketosis/1 day carb-up)
Figure out your BMR...(basal-metabolic-rate)=caloires needed to maintain current weight
weight x 12=BMR....(EXAMPLE: 100lb x 12=1200 cal a day)
Use the following fat/protein ratios w/ BMR deficit:

Ketosis:
Day Fat Protein BMR
1 85% 15% -5%
2 75% 25% -10%
3 65% 35% -15%
4 70% 30%
5 70% 30% -10%
6 65% 35% -15%
7 (Carb-Up)** +30%
**---I will go into detail on the carb-up later in the article---
So, how do you calculate these percents and BMR. Well, let’s use a 200lb person as an example of this.

EXAMPLE BASED ON 200lb PERSON:

200lb. x 12cal=2400cal (BMR)
Ketosis: Days 1-6:
Day 1: 85%fat/15%protein-- BMR-5%

2400cal (BMR) x .05=120cal (is 5% from BMR)

2400cal (BMR) – 120 cal (5%deficit)=2280cal for day 1

---fat ratios for day 1---

2280cal x .85 (that is 85% fat)=1938cal from fat

Fat has 9 calories/gram

1938cal divided by 9cal/gram=215g fat for day 1

---now we need the protein ratios for day 1---
,p>2280cal x .15(that is 15%protein)=342 cal from protein

Protein has 4 calories/grams

342cal divided by 4cal/gram=86 g protein for day 1

Totals for Day-1: 215g fat/86g protein
Now, you might ask, why is the protein so low? Because protein can keep you out of Ketosis and, remember, everyday you are in Ketosis, you are burning fat while preserving muscle because Ketones (hence the name Ketosis) are protein sparing. Protein can convert to glycogen at almost 58% efficiency, so you see why excess protein is a bad idea. Plus, strictly from a scientific standpoint, a person can maintain current muscle mass at merely a 15%protein ratio, while no muscle gain is possible, maintenance is a very feasible idea with these ratios.
Day 2: 75%fat/25%protein-- BMR-10%

2400cal (BMR) x .10=240cal (is 10% from BMR)

2400cal (BMR) – 240 cal (10%deficit)=2160cal for day 2

---fat ratios for day 2---

2160cal x .75 (that is 75% fat)=1620cal from fat

Fat has 9 calories/gram

1620cal divided by 9cal/gram=180g fat for day 2

---now we need the protein ratios for day 2---

2160cal x .15(that is 15%protein)=324 cal from protein

Protein has 4 calories/grams

324cal divided by 4cal/gram=81 g protein for day 2

Totals for Day-2: 180g fat/81g protein
Day 3: 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%

2400cal (BMR) x .15=360cal (is 15% from BMR)

2400cal (BMR) – 360 cal (15%deficit)=2040cal for day 3

---fat ratios for day 3---

2040cal x .65 (that is 65% fat)=1326cal from fat

Fat has 9 calories/gram

1326cal divided by 9cal/gram=147g fat for day 3

---now we need the protein ratios for day 3---

2040cal x .35(that is 35%protein)=714 cal from protein

Protein has 4 calories/grams

714cal divided by 4cal/gram=178 g protein for day 3

Totals for Day-3: 147g fat/178g protein
Day 4: 70%fat/30%protein-- BMR

2400cal (BMR)

---fat ratios for day 4---

2400cal x .70 (that is 70% fat)=1680cal from fat

Fat has 9 calories/gram

1680cal divided by 9cal/gram=186g fat for day 4

---now we need the protein ratios for day 4---

2400cal x .30(that is 30%protein)=720 cal from protein

Protein has 4 calories/grams

720cal divided by 4cal/gram=180 g protein for day 4

Totals for Day-4: 186g fat/180g protein
Day 5: 70%fat/30%protein--BMR-10%

2400cal (BMR) x .10=240cal (is 10% from BMR)

2400cal (BMR) – 240 cal (10%deficit)=2160cal for day 5

---fat ratios for day 5---

2160cal x .70 (that is 70% fat)=1512cal from fat

Fat has 9 calories/gram

1512cal divided by 9cal/gram=168g fat for day 5

---now we need the protein ratios for day 5---

2160cal x .30(that is 30%protein)=648 cal from protein

Protein has 4 calories/grams

648cal divided by 4cal/gram=162 g protein for day 5

Totals for Day-5: 168g fat/162g protein
Day 6: (same as day 3) 65%fat/35%protein-- BMR-15%
2400cal (BMR) x .15=360cal (is 15% from BMR)
2400cal (BMR) – 360 cal (15%deficit)=2040cal for day 6
---fat ratios for day 6---
2040cal x .65 (that is 65% fat)=1326cal from fat
Fat has 9 calories/gram
1326cal divided by 9cal/gram=147g fat for day 6
---now we need the protein ratios for day 6---
2040cal x .35(that is 35%protein)=714 cal from protein
Protein has 4 calories/grams
714cal divided by 4cal/gram=178 g protein for day 6
Totals for Day-6: 147g fat/178g protein
Essential-Fatty-Acids: flaxseed oil, sesames seed oil, sunflower seed oil, grape seed oil, olive oil, peanut oil
Now, I know, I know. You want to know how to do this the easy way. Because, what I’ve just shown beforehand is probably damn complicated. So, here is a simple rule-of-thumb way to break down your Ketosis ratios:
1)Set calories at: 12 cal/lb
2)Set protein intake: typically 0.9 g/lb. Protein has 4 cal/gram
3)Set fat intake: take protein calories and subtract them from total calories, then divide by 9 to get grams of fat.
In practice, most people end up eating about 1 gram of fat for every gram of protein. Ketosis almost always establishes with 1/1 ratios. (fat/protein -grams-)

CARB-UP:
I’ve heard different ratios stated by different people on this subject, but as you know, opinions are like ass-holes everyone has one and it stinks. So, I will attempt to come up with a feasible ratios for you.
DAY 7: --carb-up— BMR+30%
EXAMPLE FOR A 200lb PERSON:
2400cal (BMR) x .30= 720cal
2400cal + 720cal=3120cal
~70%carbs/20%protein/10%fat~
CARBS:
3120 x .70= 2185 cal from carbs
Carbohydrates have 4cal/g
2185cal divided by 4ca/g=546g carbs
PROTEIN:
3120 x .20=624cal from protein
Protein has 4cal/g
624cal divided by 4cal/g=156g protein
FAT:
3120 x .10=312 cal from fat
Fat has 9cal/g
312 divided by 9=35g fat
Totals: 546g carbs/156g protein/35g fat
SAMPLE CARB-UP: (6meals) –based on 200lb person—
1-2: 150 g liquid glucose polymers...like carb powders (ex..carbo max, dextrose..etc.) w/ 1 scoop protein
3-4: 75 g of liquid and solid glucose polymers...sugar cereals (frosted flakes,honey-nut-cheerios..etc) w/ fat-free milk w/ 1/4 cup walnuts
5-6: 50 g of complex carbs (low-GI)...oatmeal, brown-rice, beans, yams, sweet potato w/ 1/4 cup walnuts
FRUCTOSE: (i.e. FRUITS)
Why is it that people say to avoid fructose? I've heard that quite a few times, and was curious why. How important is this? Fructose resupplies the liver with glycogen first, if the liver is full, then via the pentose phosphate pathway, all additional fructose goes to FAT.
I know that every reader wants a simple way to figure out a carb-up, so here it is:
1) Set total calories at: 16 cal/lb
2) Set protein intake: typically 0.2 g/lb. Protein has 4 cal/gram
3) Set fat intake: usually 0.1g/lb. Fat has 9cal/gram
4) Set carb. intake: add protein and fat calories and subtract it from total calories, then divide by 4 to get grams of carbs.
In practice, most people end up eating about 2.7 grams of carbs for every lb of weight.

So, what type of workout and cardio do you have to do while on CKD. Here is a sample workout routine based on a 6/1 CKD. (6day Ketosis/1day carb-up)
Day:
1- 30 min cardio morning(empty stomach)/workout: Chest, Upper-Back, shoulders, arms, traps, abs
2- 30 min cardio morning/ workout: Legs, (includes, calfs, hams,quads), lower-back
3- 45 min cardio morning OR 1 hour cardio during the day
4- SAME AS DAY 3
5- 30-45 min cardio AM no workout
6- 30 min cardio AM/ full body workout = circuit training 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps)
7- before carb-up…early in AM do a full body circuit workout 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps), then IMMEDIATELY begin CARB-UP.
-(DAY 1-6) For each bodypart do 1-2 exercises with 12-10-18-6 -dropset-12 reps---
ex: bench-press 12/10/8/6 drop set 12 reps
-You can increase the number of exercises for legs 1-3 with 12-10-8-6-12 reps---
Ok, now that I have given you way too much information to comprehend, I am going to load up a little more info about supplements and then we’re done.
Supplements you need for CKD:
FIBER –soluble or any other form
Multi Vitamins(MV)/ Multi Minerals(MM)
AdipoKinetix

Posted by: CLPgold

Agghh. That's far too much info and compicated for me.

Posted by: w8lifter

Posted by: Fit Freak

Nice one w8....detailed but pretty simple to understand.

Question though....do you think it would be ok to continue with a regular BBers workout plan instead of what was mentionned?

Posted by: Dr. Pain

Quote:

Originally posted by Fit Freak
Nice one w8....detailed but pretty simple to understand.

Question though....do you think it would be ok to continue with a regular BBers workout plan instead of what was mentioned?

Yes, most definitely! (FF, got your message, thank you!

)

Quote:

Ketosis:
Day Fat Protein BMR
1 85% 15% -5%
2 75% 25% -10%
3 65% 35% -15%
4 70% 30%
5 70% 30% -10%
6 65% 35% -15%

A common myth/misconception is that you can enter Ketosis with regular protein intakes....and that is simply not true, at least not for moderate to deeper levels of ketosis.....it requires a higher fat intake...as fat can only be converted to sugar in the body at a rate of 10% or less, while protein, up to 58.5%.

Another thought from having seen a CKD in action so many times:

It usually takes males 2-3 days to enter Ketosis (larger livers)..and Women 1.5-2.5 days.....a person usually feels like shit during this time....then OK, but weaker for a few days.....then by the second meal on a refeeding....BLOATED, with a continual bloat/discomfort untill the carbs are again dropped, and excess water that was holding the glycogen is again depleted.....

So it's a cycle of Bad/OK/Bloat...Repeat..and usually you lose 3-5 pounds during the week, gain 2-4 back on weekends, net lose, 1 pound.

That does not apply to everyone, but is the common scenario!

DP

Posted by: Fit Freak

DP...just what I thought...I know it's definately not for me....I'm going to be starting a journal to run an 8-week mini-cut (beginning tomorrow...I'm hoping Jodi will kick my ass if I don't keep up my end of the bargain with the posting)...check it out if you have time...comments are welcome...and yeah...np about the message

Posted by: Bob G

I've used this diet but not that complex. I use to weigh almost 300lbs and the weight just dropped off me. I got down to 225 and got serious about lifting. Though I have gained a little weight, some fat and a lot of muscle, this diet changed my life. Kinda hard to follow if you love carbs like I do. I didnt even have a carb up day.

Posted by: bludevil

Are the carbs suggested in the plan above what you really want to eat on a carb-up. Just asking, should I consume large amounts of healthy carbs on a carb-up or basically eat what you want (which looks like the meal plan from above).

Also, what type of carbs should you eat on not carb-up days. I know carbs are kept at a minimum but what would you suggest? Simply eat veggies and that's it?

Posted by: calalily1972

If you are following a CKD then you need to do a Refeed not a carb-up. You cannot eat just veggies. Veggies do not have enough effective carbs in it to re-fill glycogen.

A refeed consists of 2 consecutive days.

Day 1:
You need to consume 4-4.5G of Carbs per pound of LBM
The reminder of your cals should be approx 15-20% Protein and 10-15% Fat, ending with ratio aprrox. 70/20/10. On day 1 I wouldn't worry too much about the kinds of carbs you consume as long as you keep the fat low.

Day 2:
You need to consume 2-2.5G of Carbs per pound of LBM. The rest of your cals being approx. 25% Protein and 15% Fat. Ratios 60/25/15. Day 2 I would suggest sticking with slow burning carbs, Brown Rice, Oats, Sweet Potatos, Whole Grains??, grapefruit, apples, berries.

If in the weeks to come you are not burning enough fat then you can either skip day 2 of your refeed or stay with slower burning carbs on day 1 and day 2.

Posted by: Twin Peak

Quote:

Originally posted by Jodi
If you are following a CKD then you need to do a Refeed not a carb-up. You cannot eat just veggies. Veggies do not have enough effective carbs in it to re-fill glycogen.

A refeed consists of 2 consecutive days.

Day 1:
You need to consume 4-4.5G of Carbs per pound of LBM
The reminder of your cals should be approx 15-20% Protein and 10-15% Fat, ending with ratio aprrox. 70/20/10. On day 1 I wouldn't worry too much about the kinds of carbs you consume as long as you keep the fat low.

Day 2:
You need to consume 2-2.5G of Carbs per pound of LBM. The rest of your cals being approx. 25% Protein and 15% Fat. Ratios 60/25/15. Day 2 I would suggest sticking with slow burning carbs, Brown Rice, Oats, Sweet Potatos, Whole Grains??, grapefruit, apples, berries.

If in the weeks to come you are not burning enough fat or then you can either skip day 2 of your refeed or stay with slower burning carbs on day 1 or day 2.

These are general guidelines that should be tweaked for the individual as Jodi suggests at the end.

Some refeed for 1 day others more. Amount also depends on how long and how depleted you got.

If you follow a Duchaine-esqe CKD then your carbs should be quality and should be meticulous planned out.

If you follow a DiPasquale/McDonald refeed carbs can be from any source so long as fat content is kept as low as possible.

Posted by: bludevil

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm currently doing a CKD diet with 5 days no carbs and 2 days of refeed. I was basically eating anything on 1st day (carb wise) and eating strictly on 2nd day (mainly banana's, sweet potato and whole grain). Sounds kind of what Jodi was stating.
My 2nd question is, when I'm on my 5 day no carbs training, should I consume some veggies or any carbs (especially post work-out).

Posted by: Twin Peak

You should consume some veggies.

Don't worry about carbs post w/o.

Fruits are NOT the best refeed source (corn syrup is worse) so keep bananas minimal.

Posted by: bludevil

So I guess my pancakes with syrup is out of the question

Posted by: calalily1972

Pancakes with syrup but NO BUTTER is fine on Day 1 of your Refeed.

Posted by: MissOz

I've done Keto diets before a few times and found them to be quite effective for me to lose BF and drop weight dramatically....I love em...when you've gotta get inshape say for a photo shoot or a guest pose/promo event

Posted by: arkitech

Quote:

Originally posted by w8lifter

So, what type of workout and cardio do you have to do while on CKD. Here is a sample workout routine based on a 6/1 CKD. (6day Ketosis/1day carb-up)
Day:
1- 30 min cardio morning(empty stomach)/workout: Chest, Upper-Back, shoulders, arms, traps, abs
2- 30 min cardio morning/ workout: Legs, (includes, calfs, hams,quads), lower-back
3- 45 min cardio morning OR 1 hour cardio during the day
4- SAME AS DAY 3
5- 30-45 min cardio AM no workout
6- 30 min cardio AM/ full body workout = circuit training 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps)
7- before carb-up…early in AM do a full body circuit workout 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps), then IMMEDIATELY begin CARB-UP.
-(DAY 1-6) For each bodypart do 1-2 exercises with 12-10-18-6 -dropset-12 reps---
ex: bench-press 12/10/8/6 drop set 12 reps
-You can increase the number of exercises for legs 1-3 with 12-10-8-6-12 reps---
Ok, now that I have given you way too much information to comprehend, I am going to load up a little more info about supplements and then we’re done.
Supplements you need for CKD:
FIBER –soluble or any other form
Multi Vitamins(MV)/ Multi Minerals(MM)
AdipoKinetix

First off great post W8lifter, I used your formula and I made a chart in excel breaking down the amount of calories (protein,fat,etc) I need per day. I'm still in the process of working out a good menu plan that I can stick with.

Currently I'm trying to put together my workout plan based on your suggestions but I'm a little confused. Could you clarify a bit more on the number of sets and reps? I guess I'm not really sure what a drop set is.

For example if I were to do a dumbell chest press should it look like this:

set 1 - 12 reps
set 2 - 10 reps
set 3 - 8 reps
set 4 - 6 reps
set 5 - 12 reps

Sorry for the stupid questions

Posted by: rock4832

So with a diet like this there should be NO Carbs pre and post w/o if it's not on a carb day correct?

And does fat really have to be that high to be effective?

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