-->
Pages: 1

Pats may be best ever


(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)



Posted by: min0 lee

But dynasty legends say not so fast
Tom Brady will try to point Patriots to third Super Bowl title in four years - and elite company of greatest NFL dynasties.

The matchups are intriguing. Bill Belichick trying to outsmart Vince Lombardi. Tom Brady attempting to dissect the Steel Curtain defense. The resourceful Patriots defense first trying to shut down Joe Montana, Jerry Rice and Roger Craig and then going after Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin and Emmitt Smith.

If the Patriots beat the Eagles next Sunday, they become only the second team to win three Super Bowls in four years. That qualifies as a dynasty. They would join the Packers of the '60s, Steelers of the '70s, 49ers of the '80s and the '90s Cowboys as teams of their decades.


That does not, however, answer an important question: Could the Patriots, by far the best team in an era watered down by free agency and the salary cap, beat or even compete against the greatest teams of all time? Asked how his team would do, Patriots linebacker Tedy Bruschi suggested that question can only be answered by popping a disc into a video game and letting the teams play in the virtual world.


"As much as I admire the Patriots, and Bill Belichick . . . I really don't think you can compare post-salary cap and pre-salary cap," former Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson said. "I just don't think the teams are as good with all the player movement, free agency and the salary cap. I think Bill and I pretty well agree on it. The Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys - that was the best football that has ever been played."


It's not unexpected that Johnson, or others from the Packers, Steelers and 49ers, are protective of what their respective teams accomplished. Still, those are the best teams the league has ever produced.


New England has put together back-to-back 14-2 seasons and this group is 8-0 in the playoffs over the last four seasons. But rank them against those Packers, Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys teams and they finish fifth.


Four of the Pats' eight playoff victories have come by three points, including both Super Bowls. They have dominated a weak era.


So here's how we rank them:


1. '70s Steelers.
2. '60s Packers
3. '90s Cowboys
4. '80s 49ers
5. '00s Patriots


Giants GM Ernie Accorsi, a student of the history of the game, says "personnel-wise" the Patriots can't compare with the great teams. "Accomplishment-wise, I would put them with the Steelers and Packers and all of them. Coaching-wise, they stack up with anybody. How can you argue?" he said. "They have good, sound players. Do you think there's any chance they are going to have seven or nine Hall of Famers? Personnel-wise, I don't think you can make a case. But it's a team."


Aikman said if the Pats win their third in four years, tying what his Dallas teams did in the '90s, he would consider it a more significant achievement. "I think it's harder to win consistently today in the league than when I was playing," he said. "The talent gap between teams is not that significant."


Physically, the game has changed so much over the years. Pittsburgh's Joe Greene, one of the greatest defensive tackles of all time, played at 6-4, 260. Vikings quarterback Daunte Culpepper is listed at 264 pounds. New England All-Pro DE-DT Richard Seymour plays at 6-6, 310. Steelers All-Pro linebacker Jack Ham was listed at 225 pounds, only five pounds more than New England safety Rodney Harrison plays at today.


But all five teams were more talented than the Patriots.


"There is no way they would stack up against the Steelers, it's that simple," said former 49ers coach Bill Walsh. "You take any team, even our great ones - the Steelers had the best grouping of players in the history of the game. No question about it."


And what about the Niners?


"It would have been interesting for our 1988-89 49ers to play any defense," Walsh said. "We had truly a great offensive unit. Our defense was as strong as anybody."


Pittsburgh won four Super Bowls in the 1970s, twice winning back-to-back. The Niners won four times in the '80s and the Cowboys of the '90s became the first to win three in a four-year period. If free agency didn't hit and those Cowboys teams stayed intact, and if Johnson didn't leave after the second title in a bitter breakup with owner Jerry Jones, Dallas might have won five in a row. All their best players were so young.


Terry Bradshaw, Jack Lambert, Greene, Ham, Lynn Swann and John Stallworth headline a group of nine Hall of Fame Steelers from those '70s teams. Coach Chuck Noll also was inducted. The Packers, led by Bart Starr, Paul Hornung and Ray Nitschke, have 10 players in the Hall of Fame from their championship teams of the '60s, when they won five titles in a seven-year span. Lombardi is also in.


Montana, Walsh and Ronnie Lott are 49er Hall of Famers from the '80s, and Jerry Rice will join them five years after he is done playing. Steve Young, a 49ers backup in the late '80s who later was the starting quarterback for their fifth title team in 1994, is expected to be elected to the Hall on Saturday. Aikman and Smith are locks when they are eligible, and Irvin is among the final 15 Saturday in his first year of eligibility.


The Patriots? Only Belichick and Brady, if they win their third title together, will have spots reserved for them in Canton. They might have secured spots already with what they've accomplished. "The Patriots have a really good team," Montana said.


"They have a great team. I'm sure they fit in the category with all those teams. They are as good as anybody out there. It's so hard to tell. Even comparing us to the Steelers - the game has changed."


The Pats win because they play smart, have superior coaching, don't make mistakes and when one or two game-deciding plays need to be made, they make them. They don't win because they overwhelm teams with their talent. For the most part, they are a blue-collar team comprised of role players. Brady, Bruschi and kicker Adam Vinatieri were the only Patriots selected for the Pro Bowl this season.


But Johnson says New England gets the edge in one important area. "The Patriots might be better coached than any of those teams," he said. "The Patriots might be the best coached team ever. I think they've done a masterful job of coaching."


"The New England Patriots rival any coaching staff and their execution is as good as any team," Walsh said. "But I honestly don't believe they have some of the truly great players that the dynasty teams had."


Players and coaches from those Packers, Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys teams admire what the Patriots have done. It's impressive because it's so hard to keep teams together now.


"I never dreamed anybody would be in position to do what they've done," Bradshaw said. "If they win this one, giving them three out of four, it puts them right up there with the best teams that ever played."


Ham says comparing teams from different eras is difficult. "You're talking 25 years ago," he said. "If you take our team now and bring it forward, frozen in time, we can't compete. Our biggest guy was Joe Greene."


But he said as many as 13 starters were the same on all four of their Super Bowl teams. Accorsi noted that the Patriots turned over their roster by about 30% after last season. The quality of play was better 25 years ago due to the continuity.


The Lombardi Packers tend to get lost in the equation because their run was 40 years ago. But they dominated a decade.


"Our team was one of the best teams ever," Hornung said. "I don't think there are 12 Hall of Famers on the Patriots. That doesn't say they are not as good as the Steelers, 49ers and Packers. If you look at Hall of Famers, I don't think you find three players. You might look upon that as a negative. Other people look at it as a positive saying that is what a great team is."


Hornung says a friend of his who used to set the betting line in Las Vegas told him the '60s Packers would have been an eight-point favorite against the great Dolphins teams of the early 70s. "He said, 'There's not a team I think that you all would be underdogs to - maybe the 49ers team or one of the Pittsburgh teams, but you would almost have to call it a tossup,'" Hornung said.


The Patriots have certainly gotten a lot of mileage out of the no-star concept, but, Aikman adds, "They have a much more talented team than they get credit for. They are regarded as blue-collar, hard-working guys. They are pretty talented. It's not just Bill Belichick drawing lines on a board."


So how do the Patriots think they would do against the all-time great teams?


"To worry how we would play against those other teams is just something that we don't really want to concern ourselves with," Bruschi said. "We'll save that for the video game."


Super squads


Each of the last five decades has had its signature NFL team. The Patriots are the latest. Here's how New England compares to the great dynasties of the past:


1960s: Packers
Record: 96-37-5
Super Bowl appearances: 2
Titles: 2*
Coaches: Vince Lombardi, Phil Bengtson
Hall of Famers: Herb Adderley, Willie Davis, Forrest Gregg, Paul Hornung, Henry Jordan, Lombardi, Ray Nitschke, Jim Ringo, Bart Starr, Jim Taylor, Emlen Tunnell, Willie Wood


1970s: Steelers
Record: 99-44-1
Super Bowl appearances: 4
Titles: 4
Coach: Chuck Noll
Hall of Famers: Mel Blount, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Greene, Jack Ham, Franco Harris, Jack Lambert, Noll, John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, Mike Webster


1980s: 49ers
Record: 104-47-1
Super Bowl appearances: 4
Titles: 4
Coaches: Bill Walsh, George Seifert
Hall of Famers: Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Walsh


1990s: Cowboys
Record: 101-59
Super Bowl appearances: 3
Titles: 3
Coaches: Jimmy Johnson, Barry Switzer, Chan Gailey
Hall of Famers: None yet


2000s: Patriots
Record: 53-27
Super Bowl appearances: 3
Titles: 2
Coach: Bill Belichick
Hall of Famers: None yet


* The Packers also won three NFL Championship Games in the early 1960s, predating the Super Bowl.


** A win next Sunday would make the Pats 3-for-3 in the Super Bowl this decade.


FAB FIVE


Former 49ers coach Bill Walsh ranks the QBs from the five greatest NFL dynasties:


1. Joe Montana, 49ers: "He could do everything. He was so resourceful. Joe did everything beautifully and he had composure. He threw a soft ball that could be caught and his receivers could make plays on."


2. Terry Bradshaw, Steelers: "He was a great athlete with an incredible arm. A tremendous competitor. He carried his team when he felt like it, otherwise the team would win on defense."


3. Troy Aikman, Cowboys: "I just thought he was a tremendous all-around player. He had everything. They had a great team, also."


4. Tom Brady, Patriots: "He is just a natural. He is smooth, poised, totally composed. He reminds me of Joe. I think Joe was a little quicker and a little more active on his feet."


5. Bart Starr, Packers: "Simply because he was with such a great team, he never really had to carry his team."

Originally published on January 29, 2005
Gary Myers is a News sports columnist


Posted by: min0 lee

I know I am going to get flamed for this but I read it and re-read it and I agree with it. The patriots do belong up there but to say they are the best ever....no.
While I never saw the 60's Packers play I have seen the 70's Steelers, 80's Niners and the 90's Cowboys and seeing the level of competition they all played against it's was far better than what we have seen this decade.
Think about it, it wasn't to long ago that in this decade the Giants (My team along with the Jets) went to the Super bowl and looked horrible against the Ravin's in 2000.
The level of competition these teams played throughout the decade was very good.
The Steelers played against the great Cowboy teams of Staubach, Too tall Jones and Tony Dorsett, and who can forget when the Raiders where the Raiders. That was real competition.


Posted by: Flex

Mino, I just got home from leg day when i saw this article. i gotta recover for a few hours. Now normally, that article would be dead as fuckin' fried chicken, but later i'm going to tear this article apart.

For now, Alls i hafta say is when those other teams dominated in the earlier decades, there was MAYBE a few other good teams in the league to compete with them, IF THAT.

Due to free agency and the ridiculous talent, speed, size and strength ALL present NFL'ers possess, competition is SO MUCH higher nowadays. Look at the last 4 SB's. There is SO much parity in the NFL, that ANY team can make it, meaning MOST teams are good.

I'll be back in a while to tear that thing apart....


Posted by: oaktownboy

list looks pretty good..as long as the patriots arent ranked higher than those other 4 teams u mentioned, i have no problem with it


Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex
I'll be back in a while to tear that thing apart....
I'll be looking forward to it. Call me crazy but I like when you do that.........if you can do it this time.


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by min0 lee
Could the Patriots, by far the best team in an era watered down by free agency and the salary cap, beat or even compete against the greatest teams of all time?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This is a great part to start out on. This is the ole Wilt vs. Shaq arguement. You know what, all you "old schoolers", the Daddy would bury Wilt, no questions asked.

So let's see, where to begin. How bout here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by min0 lee
Physically, the game has changed so much over the years. Pittsburgh's Joe Greene, one of the greatest defensive tackles of all time, played at 6-4, 260. Vikings quarterback Daunte Culpepper is listed at 264 pounds. New England All-Pro DE-DT Richard Seymour plays at 6-6, 310. Steelers All-Pro linebacker Jack Ham was listed at 225 pounds, only five pounds more than New England safety Rodney Harrison plays at today.
READ THEIR OWN STATS PEOPLE. "Mean" Joe Green was 6'4, 260. Culpepper OUTWEIGHS HIM!!! If that doesn't end the entire arguement right there, i don't know what will. Guys nowadays are SO MUCH bigger, stronger, faster and MORE TALENTED.


Quote:
Originally Posted by min0 lee
The Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys - that was the best football that has ever been played."
Sure, against those shitty teams back then. How can they argue that free agency has "watered down" the league? What that DOES mean is that WITH free agency, a team nowadays, like the Patriots, to stay atop the NFL for 4 years now, is even MORE of an accomplishment, as opposed to the Steelers KEEPING their entire team, as well as the rest of the NFL, therefore continuing their domination.



Quote:
Originally Posted by min0 lee
Four of the Pats' eight playoff victories have come by three points, including both Super Bowls. They have dominated a weak era.
A "weak" era???????????

This just ends all this guys credibility. In times where parity in the NFL is SO high, meaning some teams stay winning, so come from the bottom to win, and a few drop off, the NFL is about as unpredictable as it gets. How bout the Giants and Ravens having great years and making it to the SB, only to suck the next few years. Same with TB and Oakland. and Carolina. and St Louis.

Oh ya, did they forget that, in the Patriots both SB victories by ONLY 3 points, they were FOURTEEN POINT UNDERDOGS to one of the greatest offenses in the last decade?????? And as any respectable football guru knows, a win is a win, not to mention it shows that they play better teams who keep it close so they hafta win in the clutch, as opposed to blowing teams out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by min0 lee
Aikman said if the Pats win their third in four years, tying what his Dallas teams did in the '90s, he would consider it a more significant achievement. "I think it's harder to win consistently today in the league than when I was playing," he said. "The talent gap between teams is not that significant."



Quote:
Originally Posted by min0 lee
"There is no way they would stack up against the Steelers, it's that simple," said former 49ers coach Bill Walsh. "You take any team, even our great ones - the Steelers had the best grouping of players in the history of the game. No question about it."
Sure, perhaps Pitt's players were more talented with respect to the rest of the league. But that's b/c the rest of the league sucked. Just like Wilt the Stilt. He dominated back in the day when their was 6'8 white guys guarding him. But put him against a good TEAM like the Celts w/ Russell or the Knicks with Willis Reed and he didn't do all of much.



Quote:
Originally Posted by min0 lee
And what about the Niners.
It'd interesting for our 1988-89 49ers to play any defense," Walsh said. "We had truly a great offensive unit. Our defense was as strong as anybody."

Oh, okay. Like the Niners Offense was much better than this year's Colts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by min0 lee
Pittsburgh won four Super Bowls in the 1970s, twice winning back-to-back. The Niners won four times in the '80s
ya, good competition they had. If i recall right, the 9er's beat Denver 55-12 in one of those SB's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by min0 lee
and the Cowboys of the '90s became the first to win three in a four-year period. If free agency didn't hit and those Cowboys teams stayed intact, and if Johnson didn't leave after the second title in a bitter breakup with owner Jerry Jones, Dallas might have won five in a row. All their best players were so young.

They were so young? Aikman was one more concussion away from death, Ervin was too busy snorting the hash marks and Deon was well, Deon.



Quote:
Originally Posted by min0 lee
Walsh said. "But I honestly don't believe they have some of the truly great players that the dynasty teams had."
So what? INDIVIDUALS DON'T MATTER. Ask Dante, or Vick, or Moss, or Payton Manning.




Quote:
Originally Posted by min0 lee
Ham says comparing teams from different eras is difficult. "You're talking 25 years ago," he said. "If you take our team now and bring it forward, frozen in time, we can't compete. Our biggest guy was Joe Greene."
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH, funny they contradict their arguement now.




Did anyone forget a stat thats JUST as significant to their SB success?

How about the fact they've won 28 out of their last 30 games, and 21 in a row at one point.


Posted by: njc

Best team for 1 season= "85" Bears.

Too bad thats all we have.


Posted by: min0 lee

Anyone else care to join in?
I know your out there dying to disagree.


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by njc
Best team for 1 season= "85" Bears.

Too bad thats all we have.



Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:
Originally Posted by njc
Best team for 1 season= "85" Bears.

Too bad thats all we have.
That's cause back then you also had parity.
The Giants were good, the Niner's etc etc....
They had one of the all time greatest single season defensive team ever.


Posted by: Dale Mabry

I agree that the Pats don't compare to the 49ers of old. I do not believe for a second that the league was tougher back then. These days athletes are superior specimens which has already been pointed out. Also, compare strength and speed now compared to then. There are linemen these days that cold outrun defensive backs from back then.


Posted by: Iceman

Sorry people, FLEX is right. His one point that did not matter was the size of Mean Joe. Size doesn't matter. The stat that matters here is records against quality opponents. A quality opponent being one in the top 10 of the overall league in yards gained and given up, along with record. The Patriots blow everyone out of the water with this one. The team this year, is 10-1 against quality opponents. No other team comes close. One of those Steelers teams was actually 3-1 against quality opps in a season, meaning they only played 4 good teams, which goes right along with FLEX's point about how everyone else sucked. The same 4 or 5 teams always did well and everyone else just played to play.

I'm sorry, but the 49ers=the Colts
Steelers=Ravens or Bucs from a few years back
Dallas=Rams, or even Colts again
Bears=best team ever, tied with the Patriots

We PATS fans know how great this team is, that's all that matters to us. Our respect is the jealousy we read in your words and see in your eyes.


Posted by: Dale Mabry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
Size doesn't matter.

Tell that to someone who is accustomed to moving a 260lbs lineman that now has to move a 330lbs one.


Posted by: Iceman

Tell that to Spudd Webb, Mugsy Bogues, tell Asante Samuel he can't cover Plaxico Burress who is waaaay taller than him. Size doesn't matter, or all fat people would be rich offensive lineman. I'd take Bruschi over a guy 30 lbs heavier......anyday of the week


Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:
I'm sorry, but the 49ers=the Colts
No way, the 49ers defense was way better than the colts.

Quote:
Steelers=Ravens or Bucs from a few years back
HAhahah, Their defense was great but the Steelers offense was also better than those two.


Quote:
Dallas=Rams, or even Colts again
We do have a short memory don't we.


Quote:
Bears=best team ever, tied with the Patriots
Homer

I don't mean to offend you by asking you this, but how old are you?
Did you ever watch the Steelers play?


Posted by: min0 lee

Well I have to admit I agree with Flex on the size issue.


Posted by: Dale Mabry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
Tell that to Spudd Webb, Mugsy Bogues, tell Asante Samuel he can't cover Plaxico Burress who is waaaay taller than him. Size doesn't matter, or all fat people would be rich offensive lineman. I'd take Bruschi over a guy 30 lbs heavier......anyday of the week

Tell that to dude I wrestled at heavywieght my junior year in HS. I took 2nd@171 and was far more experienced than he. he ended up taking 6th@275. He tech falled me in the 2nd period because i COULDN'T MOVE HIS FAT ASS.


Posted by: Iceman

we are talking football, not wrestling here. Of course weight matters in wrestling. But your point that size matters in football is a bad point and has nothing to back it up.

Mino, I've never seen the Steelers play but I've seen plenty of videos. Call me a homer, that's fine. I'd call you jealous and unable to remove yourself from the past. There are some things people have to live with. There will be a player better than Jordan, a QB better than Montana, and a defense better than the Steelers. AND, there will be another team as good as the Patriots, but up until now, there isn't.

Go Bosox, Patriots


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
we are talking football, not wrestling here. Of course weight matters in wrestling. But your point that size matters in football is a bad point and has nothing to back it up.
They were comparing size from guys back then to present players. There's a BIG difference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
There are some things people have to live with. There will be a player better than Jordan, a QB better than Montana, and a defense better than the Steelers.
A QB better than Montana, possibly. A D better than the Steelers, probably. But a better player than Jordan? NEVER. There will NEVER be another Michael Jordan.


[/quote]Go Bosox, Patriots [/quote]

(and C's )


Posted by: Iceman

AHHHHH....Lebron James??? Youngest ever to score a triple double the other day....he'll be better than Jordan.....I'm sure 30 years ago people were saying, there will never be another Dr J or Wilt.......it's all relative

Go Bruins.......Providence Bruins


Posted by: Iceman

AHHHHH....Lebron James??? Youngest ever to score a triple double the other day....he'll be better than Jordan.....I'm sure 30 years ago people were saying, there will never be another Dr J or Wilt.......it's all relative

Go Bruins.......Providence Bruins


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
AHHHHH....Lebron James??? Youngest ever to score a triple double the other day....he'll be better than Jordan.....I'm sure 30 years ago people were saying, there will never be another Dr J or Wilt.......it's all relative
Triple double? Whoopty Doo.

Michael Jordan's Career Highlights:
Five-time NBA Most Valuable Player (1987-88, 1990-91, 1991-92, 1995-96, 1997-98)
Ten-time All-NBA First Team selection (1986-87 to 1992-93, 1995-96 to 1997-98)
Selected in 1996 as one of the "50 Greatest Players in NBA History"
A member of six Chicago Bulls NBA championship teams (1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1995-96, 1996-97 and 1997-98)
Six-time NBA Finals Most Valuable Player
The 1987-88 NBA Defensive Player of the Year and record nine-time NBA All-Defensive First Team selection (1987-88 to 1992-93, 1995-96 to 1997-98)
Entering 2002-03, ranked first in NBA history in scoring average (31.0 ppg), second in steals (2,391), fourth in points (30,652) and in field-goals made (11,513), fifth in free-throws made (7,061), sixth in field-goals attempted (23,010) and eighth in free-throws attempted (8,448)
Closed the 1997-98 season as the Bulls' all-time franchise leader in points, rebounds (5,836), assists (5,012), steals, games (930), field-goals made and attempted and free-throws made and attempted (8,115) Holds the NBA record for most seasons leading the league in scoring (10)
Shares the NBA record with Wilt Chamberlain for most consecutive seasons leading the league in scoring (seven, 1986-87 to 1992-93)
Holds the NBA record for most consecutive games scoring in double-digits (842)
Holds the NBA record for most seasons leading the league in field-goals made (10) and attempted (10)
Led the NBA in steals in 1987-88 (3.16 spg), 1989-90 (2.77 spg) and 1992-93 (2.83 spg)
Holds the NBA single-game records for most free-throws made in one half (20 against the Miami Heat on 12/30/92) and most most free-throws attempted in one half (23 in the same game)
Shares the NBA single-game records for most free-throws made in one quarter (14 against the Utah Jazz on 11/15/89 and against the Miami Heat on 12/30/92) and most free-throws attempted in one quarter (23 against the Miami Heat on 12/30/92)
Holds the NBA Finals record for highest single-series scoring average (41.0 ppg in 1993)
Entering the 2002-03 season, ranks as the all-time NBA Finals leader in three-pointers made (42), second in three-point attempts (114), third in points (1,176), fourth in steals (62), fifth in field-goals made (438), sixth in assists (209) and free-throws made (258), seventh in field-goals attempted (911) and eighth in free-throws attempted (320)
Holds the NBA Playoffs record for highest career scoring average (33.4 ppg)
Established an NBA Playoffs record with 63 points against the Boston Celtics on 5/20/86
Entering the 2002-03 season ranks as the all-time NBA Playoffs leader in field-goals attempted (4,497), free-throws made (1,463) and attempted (1,766), second in steals (376) and field-goals made (2,188), fifth in assists (1,022), seventh in three-point attempts (446) and ninth in three-pointers made (148)
Recorded two playoff career triple-doubles, both against the New York Knicks (5/9/89 and 6/2/93)
Participated in 13 NBA All-Star Games (1985, 1987-1993, 1996-98, 2002-03), starting 13 times, and missed another due to injury
Named the MVP of the 1988, 1996 and 1998 NBA All-Star Games
All-time NBA All-Star Game leader in steals (35) and ranks second in field-goal attempts (206), third in points (242), fourth in scoring average (20.2 ppg), and eighth in assists (52)
Notched the first triple-double in All-Star Game history, with 14 points, 11 rebounds and 11 assists, in the 1997 NBA All-Star Game in Cleveland
Won the Slam Dunk Contest in 1987 and 1988, also participating in 1985
Notched his 28th career triple-double, with 30 points, 11 rebounds and 10 assists, against the Toronto Raptors on 4/14/97
Returned from retirement against the Indiana Pacers on 3/19/95 and posted 19 points, six rebounds, six assists and three steals in 43 minutes

Not to mention he is/was the most popular athlete on the planet.

But Lebron got a triple double! Oh ya? Oscar Robertson AVERAGED a triple double for a season.


Posted by: min0 lee

A lot of players play for stats, Jordan played to win it all.


Posted by: njc

anyone from illinois knows how fuckin nuts it was here when the bulls went on that run. Jesus man, thats all anyone talked about for 8 years.


Posted by: Iceman

Whoa Whoa...don't get me wrong, I was even a Jordan/Bulls fan in the 90's. They were awesome and Jordan was the most clutch player I had ever seen in basketball. My point is...to say there will never be another ( insert famous athlete name here) is something you cannot do.

If you think about all the great players in every sport, you would have thought 30 years ago that there would never be as great of a player again...

Jack Nichlaus----Tiger Woods
Michael Jordan---We'll use Shaq right now, although they aren't the same type of player, Shaq's accolades are building up, even though I don't like the guy./...but Lebron could be just as great

Hockey remains to be seen, but upcoming talent is always there...Gretzky's numbers may never be reached because of changes to the game, but his dominance could be reached....

Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays----Bonds, Mcgwire, Pujols

Payton----Emmit Smith


My point was not to discredit anyone, my point was, everyone will not let go of the past and will always say well, the steelers of the 70's are the greatest and nobody can touch them, or the Bears, or whatever. my point is, keep an open mind when dealing with these things. Everyone can call me a homer but the Patriots have one of, if not the best team ever, especially with salary caps nowadays.

On the other side of that. I would have though the celts of the 70's would be the best team ever, period. Until, the bulls of the 90's. They were every bit as good, probably better.

Think what you want, but enjoy what you have because sooner or later someone else will come along and be better than what you think is best.....just my opinion

Go Pats


Posted by: Iceman

Dale, you don't believe for a second the game was tougher back then???? Are you kidding??? Do you own a TV or watch the games??? You can barely blow air on a wide receiver now. back then, you basically beat the crap out of each other while looking for the ball. Hands to the face was polite, better than the groin. The game was 100 percent tougher. You are confusing toughness with strength. Big mistake.

Ever hear of Old Man strength?? it's real. I can bench my dad and one half and he'd whoop my butt.......


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
My point is...to say there will never be another ( insert famous athlete name here) is something you cannot do.
Um, ya you can. THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER Michael Jordan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
Michael Jordan---We'll use Shaq right now, although they aren't the same type of player, Shaq's accolades are building up, even though I don't like the guy./...but Lebron could be just as great
Shaq? COME ON, man. not even close.
and no, Lebron won't be as great.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays----Bonds, Mcgwire, Pujols
McGwire and Pujols compared to BABE RUTH???????? OMG, you're killing me


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
my point is, keep an open mind when dealing with these things.
This is about the only thing i agree with.

But let's get this straight...

No one will EVER accomplish as much or be as big as MJ, thus there will never be another Jordan.
Babe Ruth did things in his era that guys today could not even come close to, thus there will never be another Babe.





...Go Pats.


Posted by: BoneCrusher

Hey FLEX ... I read this and thought of you.
SuperBowl Seat

A man had 50 yard line tickets for the Super Bowl.

As he sits down, a man comes down and asked the man if anyone is sitting in the seat next to him.

 "No", he said, "the seat is empty".

"This is incredible", said the man.

"Who in their right mind would have a seat like this for the Super Bowl , the biggest sporting event in the world, and not use it ?"

 Somberly, the man says, "Well... the seat actually belongs to me. I was supposed to come here with my wife, but she passed away. This is the first Super Bowl we have not been together since we got married in 1967."

"Oh I'm sorry to hear that. That's terrible. But couldn't you find someone else - a friend or relative or even a neighbor to take the seat?"

The man shakes his head, "No. They're all at her funeral."


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneCrusher
Hey FLEX ... I read this and thought of you.
SuperBowl Seat

A man had 50 yard line tickets for the Super Bowl.

As he sits down, a man comes down and asked the man if anyone is sitting in the seat next to him.

 "No", he said, "the seat is empty".

"This is incredible", said the man.

"Who in their right mind would have a seat like this for the Super Bowl , the biggest sporting event in the world, and not use it ?"

 Somberly, the man says, "Well... the seat actually belongs to me. I was supposed to come here with my wife, but she passed away. This is the first Super Bowl we have not been together since we got married in 1967."

"Oh I'm sorry to hear that. That's terrible. But couldn't you find someone else - a friend or relative or even a neighbor to take the seat?"

The man shakes his head, "No. They're all at her funeral."


*sits up after being unconscious from hitting chin on keyboard while falling out of my chair laughing*

That........was...........some...........HILARIOUS .....shit........bro.


Posted by: Flex

I actually read in the paper today ( i don't know if it was just for fun or if they were serious...which i doubt they were) that since the Pats only have 52 men on their SB roster, which is 1 under the NFL limit, they were thinking of ideas of how to get the last person on there.

some ideas were to get a girl, put the spot on ebay to the highest bidder etc. etc.

twas some pretty funny shit. not to mention you get $68,000 if they win the SB, a $15,000 ring, and of course the right to say you won a SB


Posted by: Dale Mabry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
Dale, you don't believe for a second the game was tougher back then???? Are you kidding??? Do you own a TV or watch the games??? You can barely blow air on a wide receiver now. back then, you basically beat the crap out of each other while looking for the ball. Hands to the face was polite, better than the groin. The game was 100 percent tougher. You are confusing toughness with strength. Big mistake.

Ever hear of Old Man strength?? it's real. I can bench my dad and one half and he'd whoop my butt.......
Old man strength is a myth that old men bring up to compensate for the fact that their records are being broken. The game is being played at a much faster rate these days which leads to greater forces and higher impact.

Answer me this. Two guys go against each other in a shoving match much like one that goes on at the line. Person A is 260lbs and benches 500lbs. Person B is 330lbs and benches the same, which is highly unlikely, but let's just say it is true. Let's also say that their squat, clean, etc are the same. Who do you think is going to have an easier time moving the other guy around. If you can honestly say that it is the same I would back off. Personally, I think it may be close in the first few minutes of a game, but there is a big difference between moving half your max bench for an hour and moving 66% for an hour. If you don't believe me, try it.

I do agree that new rules baby the players, so maybe tougher is a poor choice of words.


Posted by: Egoatdoor

1. Steelers. Had the most competition within its own conference as well as in the Super Bowls. Dominating defense and all around offense that could beat you running or passing.
2. Packers. 5 titles and one Championship game loss(1960) in nine years. Beat some very good teams like the Giants, the Baltimore Colts and of course the Cowboys in the "Ice Bowl". Very very close with the Steelers.
3. Pats. 3 titles in 4 years, beating two very good teams in St Louis and Philadelphia. If they somehow get to 6, they would be number one despite the more watered down competition in a post expansion post free agency era.
4. Cowboys. Very good team, but faced weak competition in its Super Bowl wins.
5.49ers. Very good again, but its Super Bowl competitors ( Miami, Cincinnati twice and Denver) were the weakest of all.



(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)





vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37